Cake for all of us!

Hi Ladies,
I just got back from my trip out of the country. It did make me realize that there's a whole world out there full of possibilities and I felt okay about things while I was away. It was great. Now that I'm back, well, I have to admit that I can't stay too far away from my MM, but I am doing much better than before anyway. We seem to be leveling out more or less, and it's clear that we still have all of these strong feelings for each other, but we're both focused on the fact that acting on them really just creates a world of tension for us. I think little by little we're both getting ready for me to leave. Out of the blue he brought me some gifts this week, no reason, other than he just wanted to give me something to remember him by. It was so sweet. And that woman, the one who has been causing so much trouble but left, well, she's back for a couple of weeks, this was also out of the blue. It really bothered me, but the good news is that he no longer feels he has to keep her happy, she seems to have lost her power over him for now. I'm working hard and am about to finish my thesis, so things are looking up in most ways. i guess I'm just taking one day at a time. I try to appreciate the bond we have, the time we have left and I balance that out with what my experiences have taught me this year...if I play with fire, I'm going to get burned. It's been much better since the physical part of our relationship has been drastically reduced. And it is so true about getting attached/addicted to a man's sperm. I am sure that that's what happened to me. Now I finally get why they always want to come all over you...I never understood what men got out of that before!!! Sorry for being so direct, hope I don't offend anyone, but seriously, that information about the addictive hormone in sperm was a real eye-opener. No wonder I went insane and had such a hard time cutting things off, even when I knew it was the right thing to do. That is good information to have, thank you! I'm totally isolated from regular mail here, not to mention bookstores that have books in English (I'm more or less in a borderland between Syria and Lebanon), could someone who knows what the 10 stupid things women do to mess up their lives are just list them for me? There's no way I can get that book right now and I feel like I need to know what they are, I have a feeling I must be doing at least a few of them.... Thanks one more time, hope everyone is doing all right! xoxo STN

Hi Top Secret
I am 31 years old and my M.M. is 48. He says he will someday leave his
wife but he has 14 and 9 year old girls and says it is not the right time.
We worked together but I changed jobs because the whole office knew about us
and he was afraid someone would tip her off. How long should I wait? I have altered my life for him and he still sleeps in the same bed with HER!
I want her to find out about us so I can have what they say never happens,
Him moving out, divorcing that BIT$CH (I know her and she is)and spending our
lives together.I feel bad about the kids, but the marriage was bad before I came into play. I need to do something soon.

I can speak for noone else, but you do find these patterns recurring in affairs. Some affair relationships are ultimately successful, most aren't. if you are to marry your man, his wife will have to know all about it. what does she think of the idea?

Hi Ladies-I'm still here. I've just been SOO busy with 6 classes and work. My MM has been calling but I feel very little for him....maybe if I see him all the emotions will come up so I'm totally avoiding that. He calls once a day, sometimes twice but from 7-4 mon thru fri I'm in class and weekends I work 24 hours so I'm not really available...I discontinued my cell phone because it interrupts with my studying and little time that I have (what a nerd huh?) I have a house phone but I'm never home. My boyfriend and I are coming to terms that we can't see eachother much due to my schedule.....at this point I don't know if I should take a break from dating because I'm so close to the end, I don't want anything to mess it up at this point. My MM did call the house and my boyfriend picked up (I was outside) and he said he was someone else (he called PRIVATE)I think to move on and get mentally healthy I need to cut it off completely. At this point, I speak to him only to hear him say things like "I love you samantha, I need you in my life, I miss you, when can I see you." Its an ego boost to have a man who you fell head over heels in love with now say those things and you don't feel the same...it's like some kind of revenge. I think by the New Year I'll totally cut it off with him it'll be my resolution to only let positive people in my life and the people who only benefit me, I know it's selfish but you live life once and why be around negative people....I'm going to get rid of a lot of people:)

Hey Samantha,
True indeed!!! It is sweet revenge. My ex-MM is so damn pathetic. I don't give his ass the time of day, but yet....he still begging and pleading. I damn near wanna laugh in his face especially after he had me so fucked up in the head over him. I just don't want him anymore and he can't accept it. I guess he thought he was going to have me acting a damn fool forever. Thank goodness, I woke up and smelled the coffee!!!

sometimes all you ow women need to think of the other people that reap the decisions that you so selfishly make, many of these mm have families, in-laws, and esp children who can not understand why a "daddy" would do something like this to their family. It breaks the foundation of their lives leaving them to question what type of "daddy" he is, if he is cheating with an ow he will surely continue to do this with anyone he has a future relationship with. He is a self-destructive person who tries to be someone he is not. They always want to look good for the ow, so it is also her ego that is being stroked. The sad part is the wife will eventually move on and the ow someday will wake up and see the coward that she thought was a "decent" man. It may be awhile esp if he left his wife, he will always think of his ex-wife and the family (children) who grow farther and farther away from him.

I have been married for almost 8 years, and have had an emotional affair for the same amount of time. The affair became physical about 4 years ago. He too is married. We have never talked about leaving our spouses, but we both know, that what we share together will never be duplicated with anyone else. I married for a ton of reasons including companionship, comfort, love, to a certain degree...But I should have known something was different when on my wedding day, I was not a bit nervous. No butterflies, nothing. Business as usual. I was confident in the decision I had made, and had no regrets. But as I walked down the aisle, and looked at my now husband, I was filled with more doubts and concerns than anything else. I found my lover on the internet of all places..and we were both in a similar place at that time. We shared things with each other, comforted each other, laughed alot together, and slowly but surely, we began to love each other. And here I am today. Still with him, not willing to give him up, realizing that he is the one person on this planet that I love, but we will never be together. That is the difficult part. He has a child, and he is a responsible father. And I, have a repsonsibility to the man I married. Just wanted to let the other women out there know, that I know, its not easy. But we must stay strong, and allow life to decide our fate. Thanks for allowing me to vent.

a man and a woman can be in love, have a wonderful understanding, and meet each other for movies which is a common interest... if he is married, is he having an affair? just because his wife is not with him, and he is taking someone else to the movies? if not is it the s** that determines he is having an affair? is the physical part so important?
as a wife it would be more sad that my husband was sharing his feeling somewhere else... sometimes people grow and change, in different directions. they still live with each other, but they do not relate to each other on the inner side... should they still go on? if they do not, the kids will still be hurt. if they do just live with each other, they kids will still feel the vaccum. I know it first hand, so you are still hurting the kids. The best way i think is to be honest, with yourself and the other person. and the gentleman with his story, if you respect women you respect all of them, if you dont its only then you can come up with such vile stuff. we women are always the strength for the men, they suck it out of us... and love is so beautiful when it is around... so love, but let them not suck you dry, sometimes good men to need strength, and good moral women too fall in love.
so when does it become an affair? when you hld hands, you kiss or you lie the first time to your wife to spend time with the other?

WHEN WILL U GIRLS (SLUTS) WAKE-UP AND SEE THAT YOU ARE ONLY F*** PUPPETS FOR THESE MM, YOU ARE BEING MADE FOOLS OF NO MATTER WHAT THEY TELL YOU

to confused from co...

if you are so concerned for your wife, what were you thinking in the first place. you say your wife spent 18 months crying, what about the OW? she might have spent her lifetime crying, some do not even make it because they do not have peer support. they are left in the cold by everyone. if it is your responsibility to look after the sad wife, so is it with the OW. you have hurt them both! so who are you to judge which sorrow is greater, or who is more worthy of support. you sir are wrong on both accounts, and need to help both. your wife has children, they are a need to go on, but when it ends for a single woman, if she is really in love with you, its far more difficult. your wife unfortunately was a delicate woman from the start, would she have not suffered if a child had died? or if she lost a limb? we all face problems. some are stronger some are not, some need more help than others. i have gone through a painful divorce, which was not because of an affair, i still cry about it after two years, seeked help, got on slowly with life... but to say it is the other womans fault is a far cry. you are responsible for your family, not her. you have been in a relationship with the OW... just because there is no wedding it does not delet responsibility. just because you dont sign on a piece of paper together, does not make it any less serious. any relationship is sacred... esp. when you are talking about love and emotions, so you are and will be always in guilt for what you did to both of the women.
If you were really in love with the OW (which happens sometimes to mature men) you would leave your wife, as the OW would be more important!

in this part of the would most marriages are arranged, and once you mature and understand what a man woman relationship is about, very often you meet your love! does that mean you go on living in a farce called marriage?

Im seeing a married man and i wuz so happy bfore i met him i try to break up wit him n e says al da rite things to make me stay need advice

Hi again,
sorry for writing twice above, I thought the first message got deleted before it was posted, so i just tried to remember everything i said the first time (more or less) and write it again. Does anyone else have trouble posting and logging into this site sometimes?! i met someone here today. i'm going to go out with him just to see how things go. danielle and samantha, how long do you think it took after breaking things off with your MM until you could get ineterested in someone again? i'm not interested in this guy who asked me out at all right now, but he seems nice enough so i thought i'd go out with him just for the sake of going...to test the waters.... we'll see. xoxo, stn

hello SNT,

I am also in the middle east, and am in a similar situation. but not started with the moving away. reading what you are going through gives me hope. i have been in this relationship for 2 years now and still dont see him telling his family soon! although he makes all effort to see me, and calls me everyday( he lives in a different country). we know each other for 11 years! he has been my best friend for 5 years, and i really do not want to lose that. somewhere its all messed up. and i want to get out of this sad waiting and hoping... even if he did want to make me his second wife, the question of conversion to islam. would like to know how you resolve that? he is a devout muslim... would appretiate an answer.
wishing the best to all out there

Dali

I've spent nearly a year having an affair with a married man. I met him on the internet. We instantly were attracted to each other and immediately started our sexual affair. Now, I've fallen for him and I've told him. But I don't want him to leave his wife. I want things to stay the way they are. Is this possible? Or am I lying to myself? I can't get over how I feel. He's so different than all the men I've been with. Yes unfortunately he is married, but deep down I feel this can work.

First of all read the other posts and see that many of the affairs don't work out in the longrun. You will be setting yourself up for a break-down an emotional roller coaster. Get out and move on now before you wind up hurt and dumped (which will eventually happen) and put yourself in his wifes' place how would you feel, remember once a cheater/liar always a cheater/liar. these mm can not be trusted you only hear what you want to hear from them, not what they are actually saying, you hear want you want to justify your relationship. as quoted above "dont' be an option for someone that doesn't make you a priority" full time

dear Daine520,

read your mail, though its been posted long back, going through shit here, very depressed... your messege helped a little. it hurts and hurts and hurts, because its from the one person you trusted most...

Dear SNT,

thank you for the reply, it comes at a time i do need help. my MM has disappeared suddenly, for two days no matter what i said on the sms, or calls i made he did not reply. it all started when i was in a depressed mood and nagged him to give me more time, it gets rather lonely in this mad city. he just went cold and disappeared... i went insane! its only when i sms that i will call his house no. did he reply on sms. no phone. on the third day he says he is going through a nightmare, and is no position to talk. that nothing he does is enough, so if its so one sided he will back out. i keep saying fine but at least lets have a conversation... nothing again for two days...
maybe you have been in this situation before... i agree with you on your views, i would like to have parted, and was thinking on he same lines as you to cut the intimacy, but i know i love him... always believed he loves me... he is my best friend... i know him for 11 years, the affair been for 2 years, and at all times i have told him whenever you feel you cant take it, say we will part ways, i do not want to ruin out understanding and friendship... why such a sudden change? its not that his wife found... he is very stressed at work, a friend is going through surgury, but this could be done without this crulty. i really went insane for those two days... still any time i am by myself i cant stop tears... i feel so helpless, all i want to do is talk to him, and understand what happened? but this mindless distrution of all i believed it too much to take... i really am not the nagging or jelouse kind, and yes i do complain once in a while... but to just cut of out of the blue?

sorry for this long reply but there is no one else to talk to
take care
dali

Hey STN,
It took me about four months to become interested in someone again. I am so happy right now and my ex-MM is not even a blimp on my radar screen. And get this, once he realized I was really serious about my new guy friend, he had a major meltdown and said how can I treat him this way, blah blah blah. So I just told him, "when I was making you my priority, you didn't want it.... so now I've moved on and that's just the way it is. I'm not dropping anything or anyone for you." For the next few days, he would still make idle conversation, but I guess...he finally realized it just wasn't happening. So he sends me this bizarre text saying "I cannot talk to you anymore. It was really nice knowing you. bye." I never even responded. I'm like bye and don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you. I think he wanted me to ask him why and feed into all that bullshit. Not hardly. He is nothing to me anymore but a distant memory and a lesson that I learned the hard way. I'll tell you this, STN, it makes me proud to see how much progress you've made since July and now passing your words of wisdom onto Dali. We have to stick together. Love you girl. XOXO

PS Good luck Dali and hey samantha.

Hi SNT,

Good to hear from you again, just one friend back home knows about our affair, and i am taking care of myself, so i have to be more responsible. This event in our relationship has really woken me up, and i have decided to talk to him after Ramadan. well i would like to talk it all out in one go, but as you said with middle eastern men! so i have to rethink. but then i see him so little in person so doing it in one go is the only way.
i need give us some time, six months while we exist in this no intimacy zone, then either we work it out legally, or i let go of this dream.
i must say talking to him helps, it kind of quitens my anxiety. but its better, i can control my urge to call or sms. its funny but if i give in to the temtation once its difficult to control the next time :-). It is very much like addiction. so i have also decided to put a call time. if he wants to call, it will be between this time, if not then dont call. so i am not waiting for a call. typically we will be talking, and he will disconnect and say will call you in a minute, it takes an hour! so i am hanging on to the phone. plus if i go out to friends, he calls me so many times, actually more times then...
on a different note, do you think one can really live in peace with such a different rule oriented religion? i am more of a spiritual person, so sometimes i really do not agree with blind faith and traditions. on the other hand he is convinced about it. even genetic theory proved to him, he will not believe, if he does not find something to relate it to Quran. so all said, can it really work, even if he is willing? i have started questioning the basic.

i am planning to spend this weekend at my friends place, for a change... watch a few movies... wish there were good art shows here :-( all you see is horses and camels.
Hope you have a great weekend
take care, to all of you out there
dali

Hi STN,

i just noticed that i was mis-spelling your name :-) sorry! i guess i am getting my wits back.

Thanks Danielle for the luck i need it. wishing you a warm and healthy relationship this time around.

dali

Hey Danielle!
It's so good to hear from you. I was just thinking the other day how you always managed to crack me up with your funny stories about you and your ex-MM; you could always make me laugh even in the darkest times. I think my favorite message from you is the one where you call your ex-MM a 'begging ass mother f-er' who never tried hard enough to treat you well when he had you. It's the truth, these damn MM aren't ever there when you need them...they just want you to be there for them when they need you...and they give you as little as possible to keep you hanging on. Okay, it's true, they're married and don't have too much to give, obviously, but still, you really don't feel they're trying to do as much as they can most of the time, you feel like they're trying to give as little as they can to get as much as they can. Whether or not it's their fault or just something that results from the fact that they're married, it doesn't change the main problem: they can never really give us what we deserve, nothing to build a life on, that's for sure. I'm so glad you found someone else, that's fantastic. I honestly don't have hope that i'll find someone new or someone I'll ever love as much as my MM, but being myself again is such a relief after that nightmare I created by trying to find a way to be with him. I don't want to speak too soon, but I feel like I've made it past the hardest parts now. Thank you so much for making this easier for me and helping me through it step by step, and for putting up with my ridiculously long messages in here (I don't know why I always have to write so damn much), and you too Samantha. I just imagine that you (Samantha) are out enjoying your new life these days...I hope so!
xoxo, STN

Hey Dali,

I like your idea of making him fit your schedule for phone calls instead of sitting around waiting for the phone to ring. i HATE the feeling of wanting the phone to ring when it doesn't.
i thought of one thing that might, if you feel like doing it, help your MM get some idea of what it's like to be the one who waits and waits for something he wants but doesn't get it. but it's a kind of revenge and i don't know if you want to go in this direction: basically i thought that if you just didn't tell him what you were thinking and then let him keep expecting things to be as usual, expecting you to sleep with him, answer his phone calls, wait for his sms, etc. but instead of sleeping him and waiting around for him, you were always just 'busy' with something else. danielle told me once to act like i was busy all the time (even if i wasn't) and i have to tell you that this plan worked like a charm. my MM was begging me for time and i suddenly had all the power back in the relationship. it helped me in ways i didn't expect. it helped me end the physical side of things on my terms and this gave me some kind of strength that i didn't know i had left.
but being direct probably has lots of advantages too. i'll be waiting to see how it goes, i hope things turn out well. as for the relgion stuff, my MM is super religious too and closed minded about anything that isn't in the Quran as well. i guess i've learned to operate in his world and have accepted that he'd never be able to operate for long in the world that i come from. i guess over time i got used to doing most things according to his terms. i doubt this was healthy in every way, but in some ways it was good for me since i was never much of a compromiser when it came to relationships. anyway, i don't have a good answer for you about the religion question. i think of myself as more spiritual than religious too, so i just see religion as a context for being spiritual and most religions are set up so that i took one of them on, i could bascially live according the values i've worked out for myself. i doubt that makes sense, sorry.
by the way, i'm sick of the camels and horses too. maybe we're near each other?
is your MM fasting for ramadan?? my MM is and it makes his moods go all over the place. i only talk to him after sunset these days.
xoxo, stn

Hey ladies-your right STN about falling for a guy so close to dropping the MM. He just wasn't the one for me and we decided to be friends....I don't know what hurts the most..having a MM that you can't HAVE to yourself or not getting 100% love from a single man. My single guy has SO much stuff on his plate and so do I that we just decided to be friends....I'm working out tons and I got a kitten so I'm doing ok. School is keeping me very busy but my emotions are running on empty. My MM is now calling my friend, I don't know what his intentions are and I don't think the dumbshit knows that we are very close friends or even friends at that. Personally I don't care, she knows he's pathetic and she asked him 3 times "why did you call me?" his response "to see how your doing?" I just want to get this education over with and move out of TEXAS!!!! Going to cook dinner and call my sister. Thats awesome your doing so good STN.

Hello STN,

yes my MM is fasting, and has not come to meet me this month, as he does not travel this month. and yes it does make him cranky... he was here on the first day, so i know :-)... are you in the UAE? would not be more specific as its a general site.
i believe in giving everyone another chance, that is what i am doing with the no intimacy, so no power games :-). but a lot depends on how he will proceed. it is going to be difficult, and although i am better now i know i will have bad days. with the id vacation i intend to get some rest.
was wondering, if you are sure that the guy is an idiot who cheated you, why cant one just call his wife and have a chat? or are these wivies aware yet do not say anything?

hello samantha,
have been a student/ masters etc... its a stressful time, so just concentrate on that. go out have fun, dont get emotional, better still not intimate. it helps divert all energy to the course work :-). love cats, what did you call him/her? have had three of them.

take care everyone out there... thank you for helping me out by sharing

dali

Hi Ladies,
No, I'm not in UAE, I'm up near Lebanon/Syrian border more or less, but still lots of camels. Do you think your MM might leave his wife, or are you hoping to be his second wife? Or are you mainly trying to decide if you should still have the emotional part of the affair without any hopes of marriage any time soon?
I think my MM's wife knows, but there's no way I could call her. I feel like I'd be opening a door that wasn't mine to open...and I've met her and I liked her. I feel too guilty. He has been an idiot with me sometimes, really just awful, but I can see that he didn't mean to be most times, he just thought he understood the situation a lot better than he did and so he made some huge mistakes. I have to say i have no idea how a muslim man would go about telling his first wife that he wants to take a second wife. I've just never seen anything like that happen before. At this point all I have to do is imagine him sleeping with his wife and it's enough to keep me from being as attached as I was (before it didn't work like that).
anyway, i hope you have fun with the movies this weekend (Dali) and Samantha, maybe this last boyfriend who became your friend was your re-bound guy. I have a guy-friend here who told me that after he had had an affair with a married woman, the only way he felt better was to go out with someone new...even if it didn't last, it seemed to help him break his old attachment.But a big long break from it all sounds really good to me right now...I tried going out once with someone else and i was really a dudd, I felt sorry for the guy, but I so wasn't into him. I'm also working like crazy and it's a great distraction...at least I can feel like I'm putting my energy into something that will help me. How muchlonger do you have with your coursework requirements?
xoxo, STN

Dear STN,

first i must say, i pray and wish the very best for you, it will get better... it will not feel as good, or as beautiful, till you find love again, but the ache and desperation will become a dull ache, and the dull ache will settle somewhere inside. somedays it will surface and you will go back to those days... but then you will find a way to enjoy the simple beautiful things in life. but the sad part is you never feel whole again. that is what i felt all those years, when i lost him... 'something is missing'. but then we cannot fight for love alone, and if the other is not willing to fight, one has to let go... read 'broken wings' by khalil gibran, it gives an insight into the arabic mind... its very different from our western outlook to love.
but then one has to live with one self and ones beliefs, so its better we do it on our terms esp, if there is no commitment.
my MM has started suspecting something, as i do not react to him not calling or no sms. he is uncomfortable with my silence, though i always answer when he sms or calls. but i go no further. so he has got very vary of the meeting now. i am off for my holiday, and will be off line for a week. so much will happen in this week... but like you i tell myself i have to be strong, and i have to do this for myself and him.
i hope the very best for you... do not think it as an end, think of it as wrapping up your love and safe keeping, so it does not turn sour and bitter. its better to still have some belief than to go will bitterness and regret.

take care and love
dali

do affairs ever work out?

Ok, here goes. I am 54 and widowed a year and a half ago. I did something stupid and went on AFF. Started dating, I guess in search of another true love. and yes I am very well educated and naive as a 3 year old. I dated 2 guys and found out that most men are just looking for a good lay. then I thought I'd found the "REAL" thing. Dated this guy for 5 months. He said he was divorced and oh yes I believed him. He is everything I could hope for except one little problem. I found out he is very MARRIED. Yup I had already fallen for him. Well it's been a month since I found out the real situation. and yes I am still seeing him. and no he will never leave his wife. I know everything and everyone says I should end this immediately. and then what? He's had affairs throughout the last 20 years of his marriage. Yup I'm very lonely. Yup I'm 54, average to good looking. Educated and to me I seem like I would be a good catch. but throughout my lifetime not many males have seemed very interested at all. I've been married once for 26 years and he died. I have no social groupings in which to meet men. and really not interested in going to church socials, singles dances, mixers and the such. but like all of the rest, I do like the attention and sex. Yup I'm selling myself short and should have more pride and self esteem to go right out there "fishing". and land the "knight" in shining armor and ride of into the sunset for the rest of our life. or I can go to work every day, pay the bills, take care of my dogs, etc. and watch the rest of the world. Well the forum is open. tell me something I don't know. My husband was my one and only real friend. I live in a big city but when we stopped drinking we also stopped going out and never had developed any friend groups. I know join a bowling league, go to the YMCA, do volunteer work. Boy this all sounds like such fun but I'm really not exactly too eager. Besides, at 54 my resources seem quite limited.

To the 54 year-old woman above:
I totally get what you're saying, you feel you have to chose between being with a married man or being alone. I too have found that most men I meet, at least the ones I find attractive, are really only out for themselves, they want sex without commitment. I'm in love witha married man too, but I have to tell you, I was happier before I learned what kind of heartache being in this situation can bring. I feel like I've let something very dark into my life and that it may never go away. I'm separating from my married man, but I sincerely doubt that the damage that's been done to my heart will ever be un-done. I was alone before, but at least I didn't know how it felt to be someone's secret, someone's spare-tire or whatever you want to call it. Even if my married man loves me, he can never treat me well because of the situation we're in and I only realized how damaging this would be to my psyche after it was too late. All I can say is, please be careful and protect yourself. In the words of Johnny Cash, it's a real ring of fire, and there's no way out without getting scorched once you've fallen 'down, down, down'. My friends told me the same thing as yours did in the beginning and I didn't listen. I sincerely hope you never end up feeling the way I've felt. Now the best experiences of my life are all connected with the worst ones too. Every great memory I have of being with my married man reminds of 10 bad, horrible ones. I feel tormented.
On the other hand, I heard a funny joke about gender-relations the other day that puts another spin on things: you know how men are always saying 'why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?' well, a friend of mine asked why we women, when it comes to men, should 'buy the whole PIG for just a little sausage?!' xoxo, STN

You're so cute, STN.

I see you posted this in May. I suggest you just leave the man alone. Let him get on with his life with his wife and kids. How would you feel if you were married and he did this to you? I know it is hard...

I had no idea there were so many other women out there in the same situation as myself! Espescially the one who posted about being in love with a married man who was her high school sweetheart. My first love and I met when I was 15, I'm now 34 and we've been seeing each other and keeping in touch all these years. After dating for 5 years through school I broke it off to go out and experience the life of freedom, that was when he married his wife of 15 yrs now. Although, all I've had is two messed up marriges which both ended in divorce. Ultimately because I've never been able to say "no" to him and mark him out of my life. We have always had a hit and miss when it comes to getting together over the years. When he was ready I wasn't, and same with me. But now I'm single again and I know that I will never feel this same type of love with anyone else, he's my first love, and we've seen each other through everything. How can I move on with my life knowing that if he needed me I would be there? I don't want to ruin anymore relationships because of my love for him, I'm just beginning to wonder if I am destined to be alone. I suppose I expected him to be waiting with open arms when I became single, as we've been talking more lately because I don't have to hide anymore, but I forget that he does. I know his wife, I've known her since high school, and she's had quite a few affairs on him, although two wrongs don't make a right. He has this feeling of responsibility (as he should) to his kids and the whole family unit thing. He says that all they are doing at this point is raising their kids that there's nothing else left. I'm sure that's not the only reason, I'm not that dense, as I know he does love his wife, but just in a different way. I know it's wrong, and I know it makes me a bad person. But after all these years I can't let him go, and when I think I might be able to apply a mental block or something, there he is again. We're very good friends and I don't want to loose that. I know I ultimately have to make a decision to distance myself and just do it! It's just so hard, espescially now that I'm alone again. At this point I'm afraid I missed my doorway to happiness and that I'll be single forever.

that's because you are

i love you and i love sweden

hi STN,

how are you ? i had a action packed vacation. visited parents, shopping and then met my MM at a beautiful place, we spent a good four days together on holidays. these are the days i keep close to my heart as jewels. i have no more doubts that my MM loves me. weather we can make it work or not that we shall see. but stay as friends we will try always. yes i did it, we decided on not being intimate, and he was very sad, very disturbed. but agreed with me. he says he feels no guilt, but knows that he is lying. he accepts that as a fact of life.
the real test will be when we meet next time, will we be able to control ourselves? how difficult will that be, because we crave for each other after 10 day! so lets see how this works out.
i do hope you are gaining some confidence in your heart, and i hope you find a way to keep in touch with him without hurting about the distance.
take care and love

dali

do affairs ever work out...

do all dates you go to work out? have all your relationships worked and you got married to all the guys you dated?
well i know of three couples with whom it has worked. a lot dont, but it all depends on the people involved and their commitment to be with the person they love. so there is no hard and fast rule.
all i can say its far more difficult, and very stressful relationship. if you are in love then i would suggest, get out of your respective marriages before you get intimate...

dali

dear

as you see STN, myself... we are all in the same boat, but one has to move on, one has get away from the lies... that is very important, for your self worth. and a lot of people make children an excuse, but a bad marriage is as damaging for the children. maybe your sweetheart himself does not have the strength to seperate ... because children will still be his children... so stop before it starts becoming a dependence... stay good friends but try and put it across, that if he loves you, and needs you body and soul, then he needs to stop lying. his weakness will weaken you, and pain you...

dali

hello STN,
it will be lonely
did not read your last mail... it will get better, put some distance you need the distance. if he is not willing to do something, you have to keep the distance... if i may ask why have you postponed? if its for the affair, then its a bad idea. nothing will change in three months... if it has not in all this time. we just have to learn to live by ourselves. and hope for a new begining. trust your strength, you will heal, and dont think of suicide... think of living day by day... it will get better... dont go backwards.

love
dali

"NEXT TIME HE CHEATS, I KNOW IT WON'T BE ON ME"

Hi STN-just wanted to say hi and to say hi to danielle. I pulled a groin muscle and midterms are crazy so this wont be long. Just thinking about us and how strong we are. I hope you have a good day! Love Samantha

Hi Dali,

I'm stuck here through December because of my research schedule; I have to prepare a report to give to a diplomat who will be passing through around that time and am forced to comply with her schedule, regardless of what I ought to be doing for my own sake. So there's no choice unfortunately. I don't know what's wrong with me, I think I can't heal enough because I can't get the distance that I need. Being forced to see him 6 or 7 days a week sometimes is just too much. I can't handle the separation well until we're actually apart, for now, I'm just trying so hard to keep the pot from boiling over each day. I'm doing better than when I last wrote, but these ups and downs are going to kill me. His moods are so erratic. He says the most horrible things, then he says the most wonderful things. He pulls me in whenever he feels the pain of my leaving soon and then sometimes he pushes me away like I'm nothing for the very same reason. And then my feelings are tied to these moods of his. I'm so torn and conflicted. But I'm doing the best I can and i'm trying to be strong for him and for myself. He needs some help too, he's fighting such a battle inside himself and it's making him physically sick. I'm trying to get him to focus on the fact that we need to be happy, however that comes about. But when he goes away from the compound where I live, returns to his home, his brain goes in a thousand different directions so i never know which version of himself I'm going to get each day. I'm often scared to go and say hello to him because of the potential it has to mess up my resolve.
I'm so glad you have such good memories to keep from you holiday. That's something...maybe something more valuable than it seems...because nothing lasts even in the best relationships, so all we have in the end are our memories anyway. I have some wonderful memories of my MM too, the problem for me is that right now they're all tied up with the painful memories. I hope one day I can forget the painful ones. Anyway, I'm glad you had that talk with your MM and had such a wonderful time together. I hope that the future will bring you the happiness you deserve.

xoxo, STN

STN -

if it helps, I know how it feels to think the best and worst of your times are mingled together, because of a bad ending. it's very confusing because it's hard to assess what it actually meant, and you can't really enjoy the memories the way you would like to. but i still think it's a sign that you're better out of the situation ultimately.

IT was never "granted"

hello STN,

how are you doing? have a very bad creak in my neck, so will keep it short.
first you have to tell him to stop being a yo-yo. in plain simple words tell him, if he loves you he cant do this to you as it is leaving scars. he is just taking you for granted, so please put some distance. hope you are not being intimate, as it only makes the confusion worse. i sincerly ask you, to reduce the days you meet him... if you can take a break and travel somewhere... change house, so you will be busy... and a pattern change will take place.
me i am all up to my forhead in work :-(. waiting for the weekend to arrive...
take care
love, XXX
dali

hello girl,

first things first, if you are in an abusive relationship with your husband, first sort that out. the MM sounds not very grounded. next time tell him, if you want me come get me. you feel good about talking to him because it soothes you, esp. if you in an abusive relationship, i have been there so i can relate to it. best is first treat the main problem at home, if its not getting better go to a councellor together... for the time being just keep the MM on the phone, and give him clear messages, that if he is serious about it he better move towards you.

all the best to you
dali

have you tried seeing him only on your terms? that might make him think a bit.

This battle in my head is so hard. Love isn't supposed to hurt so badly. My husband is having a difficult time at work and brings that anger and frustration home, and out on me. My MM keeps calling me for a little phone sex, but lately that is all we talk about unless I start a casual conversation. When I do that he seems bored so we usually wind up with phone sex. He's called every day this week, even last night, we had a little phone fun and then quickly "gotta go I won't be alone for long". It almost felt like slam bam thank you mam. Today he knows is a personally sad day for me, likely he won't call to see if I'm ok. I don't think that is what he cares about, it seems more and more I am only his booty call. So I know, the signs are right in front of me, as much I'd like to think he does love me, I really don't think he loves me like he'd said he did over the summer. I can not explain how sweet he was this summer, so loving. Now, I don't know what happened but that part of the relationship is over, now its nothing but erotica. Fortunately, I guess, we haven't actually been physical since the late 80's, we haven't met half way somewhere like we have said we wanted to. Even though I would desperate love to see him, feel him, be with him again. Other than talking I guess we aren't really doing anything wrong. My head tells me stop talking to him he's destroying who you and my heart is so desperately in love with him I'm terrified of losing our conversatons. What is wrong with me. I love him, it hurts, how can I stop it.

I was wrong, he called. He called from work, a place we wouldn't be able to do the phone sex thing, maybe that isn't all he wants from me? I didn't even thank him for checking to see if I was ok. I was so surprised he called by the time he had to go I hadn't thanked him for caring. Could it be he thinks all I want is booty calls? It is incredible how I rack my brains over this. Is he isn't he, does he doesn't he, are we aren't we. I'm happy he called, I'm sorry I didn't say thank you, did he want me to. He said he'd call later, I hope he does so I can say what I should have.

hello Girl,

you will find a lot of us here who come in confused, and battered, but over time we start thinging, and changing and getting control of our lives. the first thing that a bad relationship does is make you feel, you have no control over your life and hapiness. that your hapiness depends on someone being there with you. which is true, but not totally. one has to learn to be happy again, find small beautiful moments to be happy about which you create for yourself, like a walk in the park, a swim in the river... something simple but refreshing.
if your husband does not go to a councellor, you should still see one, there are certail things you will learn on how to handle his anger. do you work? if not then you need to find work. take up some classes for a new subject... but you need to be independent, esp. in abusive relationships.
as for MM, have you told him about your abusive hsband?

hold on, live, it will get better... that is what i use to tell myself everyday. it took me two years to stop hurting from my abusive ex- husband. this is after i left him. so give yourself time to heal...

we here all learn from each other, STN was there for me, and likewise if i can help people in the same way it keeps the goodwill cycle going :-).

take care, write when you feel low it helps

dali

Hi STN,

good to hear from you, was wondering how you were doing. looks like you are still in a very emotional state. i suspected that you lived in close access... hence i suggested you move somewhere else. i am not sure i like the sound of physical roughness, it maybe because of what i have been through in my marriage, so i am biased, but to warn you it stared with a shove and ended with himtrying to strangle me... all in the name of stress and frustration. its for you to judge.
my MM calls, we allow two calls a day, he has not changed in the way he talks to me, but he sounds hopeless for the future, and says the end is near, as i want to leave him... that i am fed up with him not doing anything... so its not great, but i am living day by day. stress at work...my neck is stiff, still hurts, maid is sick, etc etc, its a bad weekend.
i relate to the paragraph, i have felt the same way... detached and in constant pain... i am hoping italy will do you good... its a beautiful place. lots of places that take your breath away. some that make you feel alive... there is hope, live on it...

take care
love, XXX
dali

Hello,
Your words are very comforting. You are right, this emotional rollarcoaster is getting too tough to deal with. I was so excited he called, we only talked literally for 1 minute he said he'd call back. Big surprise he didn't. Worse is I've made a huge mistake. He told me on Wednesday to mail him something on Friday, a letter and a picture, no matter what, mail him. So, being the fool I am I did, then today of all days he doesn't call. Is it ok I mailed him, will he be able to get it before someone else does? I have no way of knowing now. I'm such an idiot. I keep telling myself I can't keep doing this, I feel like I keep giving and giving and get nothing in return from him. Of course when I start thinking that, I remember the sweet things he's said and convince myself I'm worrying too much, then fall right back into him. Like I've said, the signs are all right in front of me, why can't I just listen to them. Because I love him, I love him so desperately and so desperately want to believe all the things he told me over the summer. Yeah, my MM knows about my husbands temper, they actually knew eachother 18 years ago but don't speak. I'm just so in love with this MM, I can't go a second without him on my mind, in my thoughts. I can hardly carry on a conversation with someone without him in my thoughts. Now I'm so nervous about this letter, scared to death. I'll have to worry all weekend until Monday or Tuesday to know if he got it or not I'm sure. I'm just torturing myself and it is no one's fault my own. This is all my fault.

Hi Dali and ?,
when i first read the message from cbf14mav, i thought i was from you dali, so i wrote all that stuff about not blaming yourself to the wrong person (i'm not sure what to call you, the other person, sorry..., but anyway, i hope you find a way to get a little stability back so that you can make your decisions and act from a stronger place). i know this feeling of not being able to get my MM out of my mind, even for a second. there's something in you that needs his love, but there's something in him that is keeping him from fulfilling this need. if that picture doesn't get changed, you're going to stay miserable....do you have hope that things can change? what i did was tell myself that i wasn't going to stop loving my MM no matter what, because i couldn't handle the thought of giving up that love, i needed it and i still need it. but i did pull back enough, more or less, to get a handle on my behavior and thinking. every time i found myself hurting about him, i forced myself to think of someone i love who loves me back in a good way, not a hurtful way, or i made myself think of my all-time favorite memories or something that got me out of this non-stop thinking about him and trying to 'fix' the situation in my head that really couldn't be fixed in reality. is there a solution for your situation that you think is realistic? try to figure out what it is that could give you some sense of stability again and go for that instead of focusing on the relationship and reacting to his behavior. you have to focus on managing some aspect of the situation that you're in control of, not something controlled by him...otherwise it won't work. i'm not sure that makes sense: an example would be that you force yourself to do something that's really really hard to do (my thing was to cut out the intimacy of our relationship). when i did it, my self-respect got a lot stronger and so did my control over the situation, and i really needed that like you wouldn't believe. i'm still a total wreck with daily struggles because of this, but i'm a thousand times better than i was a few months ago. maybe this isn't helpful, sorry if it isn't, i don't mean to give advice as much as i mean to give suggestions in case at least one of them can help you in some small way. take good care of yourself, this is the main thing.
xoxo, stn

Happily in love everyone! I just wanted to say I am so happy! Everything is going great we finally got what we truly wanted all this time. Looking forward to the holidays that we can spend together, romantic times, and most of all being open. That is the most important part we can finally move on with what was truly destined to be. I love him so much. As for the people on here that always have nothing nice to say..move on it's over!

He has no reason too I dont deprive him and our connection is too deep for you to fathom

Top secret,
How wonderful to hear a happy ending and the words "we're meant to be together", good for you. Most of us can only dream of that. Unfortunately it isn't so easy to "move on" and accept that it's over, especially being so in love with the man and his coniving words keep us holding on to the hope of a happy ending. How many of us have heard "it will happen some day" and "you're the woman for me". It isn't that simple or that easy for the rest of us, we want to believe them when they say I love you and I want you.
Best wishes to you and enjoy your romantic holidays.
CB

Hello STN & Dali,
It is Wednesday, I've heard from my MM a couple of times both Monday and Tuesday, mostly brief conversations but he was sweet. Little things he says, or the lack of little things he says still show signs to me that it's time to let go. It is just so hard, it is hard to fathom the idea of not having him be a part of my life I'm just so in love with him. I try to ask myself what am I in love with, in my mind he is a beautiful person, strong, enthusiastic, creative, exciting, caring, physically beautiful, I know he's a great father to his daughter (20 something) and teenage son, all really awesome charastics, things anyone would be in love with. Then I try to think what it is he's done or meant for me and realize that years ago I thought I was just something fun for him until he told me he was in love with me, then I didn't actually believe if he was IN love with me or in love with the idea of being sexual with me. All until this spring/summer when his words and the things he remembered made me believe I was very deep in his heart. Now, I want to believe he does love me but sometimes he can be cold and distant making me almost feel like I'm bothering him. STN, you made me see that likely he is truly in love with me but reality is we've created our worlds today that don't fit one another. Realizing he does, I believe, love me was comforting. I do still realize however, that love isn't enough in this situation. So I'm painfully torn between what I know I should do and what my heart desperately wants to do and believe. When he calls me my intention is to be a bit cold and distant but I find myself gitty and excited to talk to him. I don't know if I have the will and strenghth to say good bye and that will inevitably cause me more pain.

He has been a part of me for so long, I can't imagine him not being there. I love him, with every part of my being. How will I ever let that go?

Please know OW, you were not all that and a bag of chips. He didn't want you because you were special, because you were beautiful, because you were smart, because you were witty, because you cooked better, because you were his sole mate, because you were better in bed, because you were sexier. None of those things apply to you. He wanted you because of the exact opposite. Because you were cheap, easy and always available. You stroked his broken image, you confused sex and love. You were his "holemate" not his sole mate. You were his F*** puppet, not his date. You were nothing more than a dirty little secret.

do you know who else he is seeing????? you have no idea!!!!!!!!!!!

Listen here and listen well...I am not a fuck puppet or dirty. You were the one that started all of this in the first place. Maybe if you were taking care of your husband in the first place, he wouldn't of been unhappy and interested in me. If you think for a moment that I physically tied him up, and he was kicking and screaming, your sadly mistaken. It takes two. There are plenty of married people in the world that are satisfied with each other. They wouldn't dream of ever pursuing another woman. Labeling me those names just shows that your trying to justify why he did what he had to do. Why is it the OW's fault. I dont know fucking know you, you dont know me. If you want to know me or talk with me..you obviously have my number. This time be a woman (instead of having one of your buddies call) and you talk to me. I'll meet you anywhere..that way you can call me a fuck puppet to my face and let me tell you..that would be the wrong move! I NEVER MADE A PROMISE TO YOU...HE DID. So when your done with your little temper tantrum..try this, sit back and just think about your situation. How dense can you possibly be? Second, I know the difference b/t sex and love. We do have a great friendship. You know him, if he didnt care about me or love me, he would of ended this a long long time ago, that's the type of man he is. That's what I like about him. He's to the fucking point like me. Come to think about, you probably don't know this. Now you know. If it's us sitting at home, eating dinner, waking up in the morning together, or just watching tv..we always have something to talk about. There is NEVER a dull moment. Your very old school, and not the sharpest tool in the shed let me tell you. Trying to make me jealous, or stating that "Im not the only one" tells me that your like a cat hanging on a ledge with one claw left. You will try anything to make me leave him. Well guess what sweety...I AM THE SHARPEST TOOL IN THE SHED! Try again. If he wants to leave me he knows where the fucking door is, I tell him this all the time. Aren't you dating someone else??? Oh, yes you are...why don't you move on..we have!!

That's a funny one idiot...I show him everything you write...you are soooo low!..

P.S You may of won the battle..but you have definately lost the war:)

alright did you know that your alcoholic roomate thinks that woman are only good for two things: fucking and lying to, straight from the piece of shits mouth, go ahead and ask him of course he will deny it and also he asked me not to go forward with the divorce (this was just last night) so buckle in and enjoy the sloppy seconds HE'S ALL YOURS!!! You get the booby prize, you were my ticket out of hell thank you, p.s. make sure you show him this also. He will of course deny it all because he has nothing else, no family or friends, a chronic liar.

p.s. I almost forgot, he has referred to you as a "25 year old piece of ass that threw hereself at me" and a "hobby" on the side, numerous times, this to of course, he will also deny with some excuse to you because he has nothing left. He's the one trying to hang on. You have no idea the type of person he is, but eventually you will so I guess you deserve each other. Other then that I have no more time to waste on you or him. Enjoy your life together, oh yeah he also said: "If she thinks I'm going to marry her she's crazy" straight from his mouth. Another denial will come from that or he'll say "what else was I going to say to her" I'm done

I didn't lose the war, I never went to battle for him, according to him as of last night women are only good for two things "fucking and lying to" straight from the shits mouth, you got the booby prize, the sloppy seconds, you were my ticket out of hell and for that I thank you, and make sure you also show him this because he asked me NOT to go through with the divorce (again) last night (Friday) because he misses it here, but he lives with you in his "shoebox" apartment as he calls it. :) and WE don't miss him!!

What the fuck is going on?

Hey CB,
You've been gone a while, I hope you're doing okay. How are you? I'm a little concerned that you've become too depressed to write. I've had a bad day here, sometimes I have this sense that my MM really just wants me to love him so he just tells me he loves me in order to get the attention he needs and that he doesn't love me at all. In these moments I wonder - is that PMS talking or have I just finally seen the light? anyway, my feeling right now is that he sucks! no matter how much i've loved him, men just suck. sorry to any men reading, but seriously, you do suck and i hate you all (i'm half joking, but i sincerely feel like saying it). and the time i've spent on my MM, well, maybe i've had some good memories to take with me, but really, the cost has been too high. not a wise investment from where i sit right now. he had better do something to show me that he's not a completely selfish, sex-seeking, mother f-er pretty soon or i might blow a fuse. to be honest, all it would take to make things right is for him to be decent...to say he's sorry and mean it. instead i get angry apologies full of more pride than regret from him. anyway, i'm sure half of my married friends feel this way about their husbands so maybe i'm better off because i never actually committed myself to him for life. maybe i'm the smart one, ha! i'm sure i'll feel differently later, because my feelings are always changing on me, but for now, i'm so tired from this situation. i'm tired of his selfishness. i'm tired of the sacrfices i've made for it and the excuses i've made for him. i'm tired of men being the pigs they are. i'm tired of my options, which suck just as much as men do! does anyone know if there's a way out of this trap of wanting to have a man in your life and then having to live with some stupid excuse for a human being that calls himself a man and acts more like selfish beast?
okay, i better stop ranting and go use some of my 'strategies' for feeling better. ha again! sorry for going on and on, i think it's pms...and the fact that i'm in a hideously unhealthy situation. please write soon CB to let us know that you're okay.
xoxo, STN

Thank you for your encouraging story Marcus. I can definitely relate to your situation, I'm glad you've found an ending with happiness that you will reach together.

Best wishes to you in the future, have a beautiful new beginning.
CB

Now we can all move on! Thankyou

Hi SN- I was just checking in on you and how are you doing? These months are horrible! I hate the holidays and not having your MM around you 24/7. I remember those days. I was listening to music going to classes and my MM and my song came on and with it being a gloomy day and close to the holidays and no family in sight...oh the damn tears!!! Anyways, I called him and told him that I will ALWAYS love him forever and that we had some good times and it wasn't like I want you back badly it was more like "why didn't we end up together? why did life deal these cards? What happened?" I was kind of sad but I know its for the best. I hope you all the strength in the world SN because these holidays are going to be hard on both of us!!! Love Sammy

Hi STN,

after reading all these stories on this forum, I just cant believe how many women have to go through this sort of thing. Well, I would like to share my story, but right now all I can say is that I TOTALLY know where you are at. it is sooo hard to find anyone who can completely understand the feelings of 'the other woman', my case has been very similar to yours. I thought my story would be the most unique and I actually felt special, but the truth - its the same. Married men, very cunningly know exactly what they are doing and it seems to me like they have some sort of a cult they all belong to and plan out their moves on some innocent vunerable chicks (like ourselves). I am not saying that us women are all powerless, that is not the case - we give our whole hearts and they are trampled all over like dirt. There are those women who are just in these situation for sex, I guess they are the equivelant of their male couterparts.

There are some nice men around too, so im not going to say I hate ALL of them, Marcus sounds like he has his heart in the right place, my husband is a very nice man. I should say i am lucky to be with him.

Quite recently I feel as if i have won the long game of an affair... I am suffering at the hands of my MM who I fell in love with last year, he has done nothing but rip me of who I was and who I have become has a lot to do with him. I want to go back to being me, and as long as there is willpower I WILL. So to all of you out there who are shattered because of these low insecure ba$%%tards, remember they DONT love you and never will otherwise you wouldnt be writing on this forum. I guess it is that simple and as complicated as we may have made it the reality is it has always been a fantasy thats all...

Hey STN and Samantha
I have been so busy lately. Just wanted to let you girls know that I was still out here. I'm going to write more on another day.

XOXO
danielle

I am officially in love with a married man. I never ever thought it could be me but here I am. Not in pain, not sad or hurt cuz he wont choose me and that's the crazy thing about it...I know that its wrong...I think about how I would feel in her shoes and how I felt the numerous times cheating happened to me but I don't want it to end because this is the best relatedness, I've ever had. I always wanted to have a undeniable chemistry and passion. Not Lust but passion. Like how we both feel about our art. An unwavering burning desire that fuels you and inspires you and genuinely touches your life. Which even in my 7 year relationship (my only relationship) with the father of my child...it was that very fire missing...it was always something missing. I felt drained...Like I was dying. Now I feeel so inspired, alive and I feel like I can face all of my fears. The other kicker is...he is my professor and this is also...so very dangerous on so many levels. He pushes me and motivates me. And he listens or at least as most men, appears to be listening.lol. But none the less always interested in me. I sound like a little girl, who justs wants love which is true... We seem to nuture each other' neglected inner child...MY!!!I've always urned for this but of course not under these circumstances. We do spend time talking about the reality of our situation and I like that a lot...that openness...We never sell each other dreams and fantasies about being together. I could not ask that of him nor would I want that as a result of us. Because our fait is cursed. We spend a lot of time together just enjoying each other. Talking and sharing and feeling...and of course the sexual aspect is sooo beautiful. Sex is sooo emotional for me and I've always been so sexually reserved. But with us it so natural...I always feel so open. And seriously I've never felt been able to just open up and enjoy. Its like looking in the mirror bcuz...when I look at him I feel like its completely mutual. We even, say the same things at the same time very, very often.lol! I don't even wanna damage what we share... our moments with possibilties. I do get sad sometimes though because...as right as it feels...just continously growing and deepening with time...Its still VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG.

I'm open to feedback...

First of all let me tell you I certainly can say I understand your feelings of excitement, happiness, love, lust and sexual fulfillment. I also understand the feeling of guilt knowing there is a "her" and being the other woman. I often wonder if she is truly the miserable miser my MM says she is or if she's some sweet innocent loving woman crazy in love with him. I don't know. My relationship with my MM has been going on for a long time and sometimes it is wonderful to hear him, sometimes (more often recently) I cry...alot.

Enjoy your love, nurish it, feel it, be complete with it, but always remember to guard your heart. Remember, "she" does exist and if his love for her out weighs the physical and emotional feelings he has for you, then you can really get hurt. Believe me, I know because right now I'm hurting so badly not knowing if what he says he feels for me is real or if I'm just his little dream puppet. Have you discovered why it is he's with you when he's married to her? Is he seperated, are there children involved?

So be careful, what you described sounds wonderful, enjoy it but don't allow youself to get hurt. Let us know how things progress, I hope you remain happy!
CB

I need someone to talk yes, It started out as a game for me, in the beginning i was goign to do what men do, lie, cheat ans deceive women, so i was going to flip the scrpt, therefore, i lie and made this men beleive that he can have me and his wife, which i knwo is not me, and now i feel bad, because i feel and see and know he is in Love with me, but it't based on a LIE i told him the thruth now, but now he is saying he still wants me, when he gets off from work he comes to my house prior to going hime first he stays 3 to 4 hours we talks on the phone periodically, we both has a high sex drive for each other, but before the sex it was a friendship, now i;m scared because i love him, and i dont; want to share him, and that's selfish because he belongs to someone, I;m the other woman, when i try to break it off, i feel terrible, if what, his wife has qualities that he loves and he wants both of us, and it's my faught because i made him belive that he can have his cake and eat it too, i don;t want it anymore. please help me

Please be strong Ash. I have been there and I am telling you from experience, a MM will do anything to gain that control over you again. It makes him feel powerful and strokes his ego. I've come to the conclusion that this is what it boils down to. The other woman feeds his fragile ego. I was so tired of being his convenient side dish, so that's why I got rid of my MM and never looked back. It hurts now, but you'll be much better off in the long run. Good luck.

there seems to be alot of married women in this forum lately!

Yes it seems when you are married it gets all mediocre and thats when trouble starts...

I seem to be doing the right thing though. I am not in touch with him, and have made it clear that I dont want anything physical with him whatsoever... I admittedly do enjoy his company and we seem to share all other things in common things which our partners dont. Therefore I suggested we'd be low key friends but maybe that isnt a good idea either. it really sucks as we recently went to a concert together (unplanned) my friend backed out last minute however I know I wouldnt have enjoyed it with anyone else and for the first time I didnt even feel sexual with him just enjoyed his company like when I fost met him...strange

He was pretty taken back with my lo density behaviour no doubt! it felt like I was in the power seat and I loved it!!!

because no matter how much you, the OW hurt, you can not phantom the pain the you have placed upon a family, and put us and any children thru. There are many people that are hurt by the actions of the OW, you can not possibly feel the pain that we go thru, you all sound as though you're the only ones hurt, the victims, but you are able to walk away, you don't know what you do to a family "unit", the pain, the hurt, the humiliation of a couple that has a history no matter how "special your feelings" are. I find it hard to have feelingw for the OW, she has only gripes, the wives and children have to live and feel the pain everyday. No it won't last with you so why try to talk yourself into it even if he tells you how much you mean to him, they will always look back and miss what they left behing and want it back without hurting you, you wil be taken on a cross-country trip with his lies, he will always and forever have to justify to himself and convince himself over and over again he made the right choice, even though he knows he didn't, it gets too hard for him to live in reality and face the truth, therefore you will always be lied to, to feel needed and eventually it will be held against you. BEEN THERE DONE THAT!!! I would never go back to being involved w/a MM, it just isn't worth the feeings, love and time. It may last months, years but never forever. TRUST ME

I am in love with a married man and I am married also. We were friends before we became lovers; he is my confidant and vice versa. We both have higher sex drives than our spouses. My problem is that his wife and I are good friends and so is he and my husband. I have not told him that I am in love with him yet because I'm scared to but I think he's in love with me too and he's scared to say so. I am not just in love with him for the sex as I said we were friends first for 4 years and we both knew that we had an attraction to one another but just never acted on it. And suddenly he told me about a dream he had about us that woke him up in a sweat. And after that I just couldn't keep him off my mind and he started calling me and text messaging me and I responded because I have always been curious about him sexually and then it happened and it was the best sex I think I have ever had in my life.

I know that this is not right but I love him. What do I do now?

It sounds like you are doing all you can to get out of the situation. Believe me I completely understand how difficult that is. Our relationships with our MM are very similar, and both equally as painful to live with and without. It is good you are going to counseling, that will definitely help.

You say you now have a loving husband and are focusing on him, that your MM doesn’t love you. Continue focusing on your husband, realize the love and happiness you have and will have in the future with him. Your MM hasn’t left his wife for you, chances are he won’t, leaving him behind as a memory you can smile on seems best. Should you lose your husband for your MM chances are you’ll be shacked up as his little sex puppet which will only make him happy and destroy you in the long run.

You are doing all you can, you can’t help loving your MM and thinking of him 24/7, believe me I know, I too can not stop thinking of my MM. Recently I realize too that he doesn’t love me, he just wants the erotic sex we talk about and he too wants me shacked up in an apartment near him, he talks about that all the time. I realize I would only wind up his sex puppet and am trying to avoid the temptation of being closer to him.

Focus on your marriage, hold on to that love tightly. My love for my MM, even though my husband doesn’t know about him, is one of the things destroying my marriage bit by bit and I can’t stop it. It of course isn’t the only thing destroying it, but it doesn’t help. Try and make your MM memories just that, memories and let him go. When you think about him, remember the happy times fondly but keep them at bay, bringing him closer again will only hurt you.

Be happy and best wishes!

CB

speaking of holidays, yes i am another woman deeply in love with a married man, that i have been seeing for over 2 years, we had worked together, I cannot face another holiday without him, he had givin me his word, we would be together this xmas, financials reasons are the problem here, he has even gone as far as going to an attorney, and now see's wow he has to come up with big bucks, in my heart, i know he loves me, and wants us together, but none the less this is so painful, when i hear him cry when i tell him, i am done, i get angry, maybe i am different, i will do anything for him, i did leave my home let me ad, i wasnt married, but with my fiance for 7 yrs, who was a cheater himself, nice huh? but i left, and basically have become homeless, living with different family members, i couldnt stay with my ex, and see my MM,i cannot do that.
but here i am suffering, angry, hurt, etc you nam it, i am feeling it...

this is the situation that we as other women put ourselves in, they will never be all "ours". If they have been married for 10, 15, 20 or more years the wife, children will ALWAYS be part of their lives, always. They have lied to their wivers and we are also being lied to. I feel we should all stand up and give them the boot in the ass and turn our back on them. Who knows how much they truly have cheaten on us and their former spouse, we wll always be lied to and come in second best if that. I know i deserve more it hurts and i have made to choice to put myself first, i am going to ask my mm to leave, we share a home now but i know he still sees his ex, he's lied to my face about, i've come to the conclusion that that they chronic liars and become so entangled in their lies that they can't even keep them straight, they want their cake and eat too.

Hello CB,
If you look back at some of the previous posts, you'll see that I once suffered through what you are going through. STN, Samantha, and myself were in it deep together and we tried to keep each other encouraged. After a 1.5 years of hurt and pain, I made a decision that no matter how much I loved this man, I was going to love myself more. It's just that simple. It hurts like hell, but it hurts more to be in that constant limbo. The MM is never going to give you what you need. And if you're "lucky" and he leaves his wife, what are you really getting? So how do you stop loving him? Or not loving him as much? Just start loving yourself more. The rest will follow. Good luck!!

those ARE NOT my replys to you, so fuck off, and find someone else to bitch at!!!

Oh and to add to my story...They've only been married 5 years, which scares me that he was out and cheating so fast. I guess I'm scared to trust him, and I can't believe I got myself into this mess. When I'm with him, he's sweet and loving and kind. We enjoy a lot of things together...going to the beach, concerts, eating out, wine tasting parties. He's a lot like me and has been very successful in his career, so I know he's worried about finances, with this divorce. And so when I'm with him I feel I can trust him. But then when we're apart, I am plagued by doubts. And I worry he's going to change his mind about the divorce...and before you ask, I know that it's really filed - those petitions are public record, I went online for my state (CA) and saw that she filed for divorce in mid-October. I think he's just mostly concerned about having to pay child support and alimony for her and his two boys - he doesn't mind the child support, but he doesn't want to be plagued by maintenance issues as well... sigh. It's so complicated. I wish I'd walked away before I fell so hard for this man...

this was so wrong.

why dont you just give up you bitch

Curious...have any of you had an affair with your friend's husband? Why? How did you justify betraying your friend?

Thank you Danielle for your advise and good wishes. I'm trying to love myself but the desperation to talk to him and be with him always takes over. I'm trying, trying to work him out of my heart. Being so far away from him you would think that would make it easier but it doesn't, when I don't hear from him I worry what has happened, is he hurt, is he mad at me, has he decided he's so in love with her he's just cut me off, will he ever call again. These thoughts continue to haunt me and thoughts of him consume my thoughts so badly that I find myself in conversation with someone and realize I have no idea what they just said.

I'm lost, sad, alone, confused and hurting. I just want to make it stop. I love him so desperately and at the same time don't want to. This all just hurts so much.

He doesnt want you back he misses his children not you so quit calling and trying to get back with him..its very sickening. And mind your damn business when it comes to who he has over his house. You have no affiliation with him on that level anymore. He has everything he wants with ME not YOU. Dont you get it?? He would of left me if he wasn't happy??!! Hellloooooo? He's not going to leave me..he loves me. Stop torturing yourself you old hag!

why don't you stop being a "little girl" playing in a grown-up world, do something with your life, (um maybe get a job) and don't you EVER tell me what to do EVER GOT THAT . GO back to your fantasy life because that's all it is :). Keep convincing yourself he loves you (it's called paying the rent loser)

STN,
Girl..... your words, spirit, and progress have truly moved me today. I am so happy that you have found your "place" in the midst of the chaos we found ourselves in. It is still a challenge everyday for me (cause lord knows i loved the fool), but I am so proud when I look at how far we have come.

XOXO
daniellejordan

Hi guys,
I'm facing the same prob as all of u out there...in love with a married man and it sucks..those secret short dates-i even attended his wedding! U guys actually said all the things i've done, felt..i wish i had someone for support...i know its my fault for falling in love with such a man..but..i really cant step out of it..its been nearly 2 yrs..

Hello STN and Danielle,
I wanted you to know that I took all your wonderful words to heart. I also want you to know I sang in the car on the way home yesterday. The last few weeks I've cried all the way home, wrapped up in the pain and sorrow of the situation with my MM. So sad with thoughts of things he's done and said lately, longing for it to be the way it was during spring and summer. Yesterday was different, I felt awakened to see the situation in a different light, to see him in a different light. I have a feeling right now he is going through a very tough time if it is in fact true that his wife left him, and dealing with me and our feelings through that is too much for him, which is likely why he hasn't called except to ask me if I've called or mailed him anything. Realizing how hurt and upset he must be over the loss of his wife has also made me realize he has no love for me at all and all the love he is capable of for her. At least I do know he doesn’t have love for me in a sincere romantic way, he wants me, he wants to f**k me, he doesn’t want to make love to me, I truly don’t think he ever did. I’m glad to know that his wife’s leaving also had nothing to do with me, she didn’t know we were talking and ultimately that is all it was, talking.

I do love him, I know I always will. Why, I don’t know, I guess hearing him say over the past many years of how he loves me keeps me loving him. I’m sorry if he’s hurting now, I wish I could help him, as a friend, find happiness. That isn’t possible. Our physical desire for eachother will always get in the way of any love or friendship we could ever have. I’m going to focus on making things right where I am now and move on. I’m grateful that I didn’t become physical with my MM again, I guess it’s true, there is a reason for everything.

I’ll let you know how things move on and if I’m able to stay on this new path without my MM. I’m sure he’ll call me again some time when he comes out of this mess he’s in (with our without his wife) and that will be the great test for me. If I hear his voice will I fall into his web again? I do hope I’m strong enough to stay out of it, and I actually hope now he works things out with his wife, he obviously loves her.

Thank you STN, and you too Danielle. Your words of wisdom are definitely something that has helped me to respect myself and try to move on. I’ll keep you both in my prayers for happy times. We’ll all keep in touch.

Corinne

First of all it isn't YOUR fault for falling in love with him. You were in need of something he seemed to be offering. We have NO control of who our heart falls in love with. Sometimes it is right, and sometimes it is wrong but either way, it happens. I had a physical relationship with my MM for 2 years before he moved away and we've kept it going just over the phone now for almost 18 years. I love him, with every part of my being, but that love hurts usually all the time. If your MM hasn't left his wife by now for you, it is unlikely he will, even if he says so. Remember he is likely telling her she's his one and only as well. Try and do as STN and Danielle have told me, learn to love yourself, realize you deserve better. It is hard and hurts like hell to let go of someone you love. It will take time, belive me I know, I'm working on it myself. Read some of STN's recent entries, they are very helpful in helping you reflect on the situation.

What's best for you sound like getting away from the MM. You love him, you always will, but he will take you no where but to a painful place you don't want to be.

Best wishes to you. Keep us posted on how you are doing. The women on this site are good people and we all seem to be able to understand eachother with compassion and without judgement. We are all in it together and can perhaps get out of it together.

CB

Hi 81pyldj262...

I have posted a couple of times but no advice to me has been given I just read all the posts, which lately the majority of them are stories of leaving the MM.

I am still with my MM, we just hit a year and I am happy, things seem to be falling into place, I am hear to lend an ear if you wish, tell me about your story.....

Hi STN,
I'm having a particularly sad moment so I thought I'd take a moment to write. It is mid afternoon here and the 3 "usual" times my MM would call have all passed without so much as a ring. I can't help but wonder where he is, what is he doing. Is he hurting, begging her to come back, making love with her, forgotten about me? 4 days ago he called me 11 times, 11. Now I only heard from him that one time to see if I called his job, in 4 days. I don't understand why he doesn't call when he knows how I care and how I worry about him. Then again, showing how he doesn't care about me, he wouldn't call if he was trying to work it out with her. Why am I so blind, why did I let myself believe all he said, the beautiful things he said he felt about me and wanted to share with me. Why are those very things hurting me so badly now. Why does he so obviously not give a shit about me, what I'm feeling and what he does to me. It's so unfair, I was in his life long before her, hell she was just a kid when he and I first got together, why is she who gets to push me out of his heart. That is selfish of me isn't it, he did ask me to marry him years ago, just before her, but I couldn't at the time. Maybe I can feel better knowing at the time she was his second choice, but she wins now.

I'm just so sad and confused, I understand so little and know nothing of what is going on. I didn't even get a chance to say good bye, although I don't know if that would have been easier or not. Good bye's are so painful. Maybe it is good that the last real conversation we had he said "love you, good night" rather than I'm over you, I'm in love with her, good bye. I don't know. I'm sorry, I'm just feeling lost at the moment, I so desperately want the phone to ring and hear his sweet voice.

Corinne

Hi again ladies,

It's a new day here and I'm feeling a little panicky, so I thought I'd write. Sometimes I lose my perspective and get really nervous about all kinds of things related to my MM. I guess I'm okay at the moment, but I'm trying to fight off that feeling by writing here. I'm probably just going to ramble, so please don't feel like you have to read it (I write too much as it is:)! So my latest plan is to plan a trip to the Himalayas for next October. I've always wanted to go there, to the 'roof of the world' and go hiking (I'm actually afraid of heights, so I'll be taking the light and easy trails, but whatever). I feel like if I can get through this emotional disaster I've been going through, I should go and stand on top of the world, looking down on snow-capped mountains, forests and glaciers, like someone who won a gigantic battle. Just the idea of fresh air and clean water is appealing by itself. There was actually a time this past summer when even seeing wind blowing through the leaves of a tree hurt me and made me cry; I think during that time I wanted all the beautiful things in the world out of my life - I couldn't even pet a cat or dog, I just turned away from everything, food, sleep, water...everything. I'm not sure what was making me do that, but I'm glad that I'm interested in my life's goals again, going to the Himalayas is defintely one of them.
To be honest Corinne, I think your separation is going to be something that takes a mountain of energy and willpower to deal with. I've loved my MM for many years, but never like I have in the past year - we were never intimate before this past year and just getting over a year-long attachment is taking everything I've got. I just don't know how things will go for you after 18 years and a child. I'll be here for you in any way I can.
xoxo, STN

Hi Allison, Ive read your recent posts and Im glad everything is going great for you! Ive talked to you before and I think our stories are very similar...can you do me a favor and email me at [email protected] I would like to chat further with you!

Hello STN,
I’m sorry to hear you too were having a panicky moment yesterday. Your idea of visiting the Himalayas sounds wonderful, getting away like that would be very therapeutic for you. I like to try and escape to the ocean. I love the waves and the sound they make crashing on the beach, the seagulls singing around, the smell of the air and the mist of the sea on my face. It is very tranquil for me. Unfortunately tranquil times also lead me to reminisce about my MM and I find myself remembering all the sweet things he’s said, the harsh actions he’s done and realize how he lied to me about so many things. Today is day 5 and I still haven’t heard from him. I’m sick with worry that he’s hurt or sick, emotionally distraught. I want to be there for him but he’s shut me out. I have to admit I cried again on the way home last night. I can’t show any emotion or show any sign that something is wrong once I get home so all my emotion is buried except when I’m alone in my car, then it all floods out. I imagine that is best, I have to get it out sometime. I’m just so confused, I don’t understand at all what is going on. I didn’t do anything wrong. Over past weekend I spoke to him once on Saturday when he hung up quickly saying he’d call back and never did, then Sunday he calls me 11 times. Each time I called him back and had a good while to talk to him a couple of times. He kept telling me to come there the next day, not to worry about anything, then he admits she’s left and wasn’t coming back (so he said). I couldn’t just drop everything in less then 12 hours and disappear. He was angry and said I was blowing an opportunity, that I had a window of opportunity and I was blowing it. We continued our conversation in our usual somewhat erotic way, he said some sweet things, we said I love you and good night. That was the last I heard from him except for the one brief moment asking if I’d called or mailed him 2 days later. I just don’t understand and don’t know what to think of it. It’s just killing me, my heart is so lost and sad without him. He has total control to call or not to call, he knows he can get me any time, any where. 18 years of loving him is a long time, and seeing his child everyday is a constant reminder of what I thought we shared. Fortunately the child knows nothing of him, and never will. He obviously doesn’t have any emotion for that either, none at all. We talked about it during one of our conversations, he said at that time he felt even closer to me and how much he loved me and that was it. That was about 3 weeks ago and he’s mentioned nothing about it ever since. My feelings for him I don’t think will ever change, I love him, I know no other way of life but to love him and hold him in my heart. Why I have that feeling for a seemingly selfish, self-centered, selfobsorbed, mean spiteful person I don’t know, but I do. Affairs of the heart we can’t control, and I love him so completely it consumes my thoughts sometimes. Anyway, blah blah blah, I’m going on forever again. Spilling it all out to you is so comforting I can’t tell you how grateful I am to have an understanding friend in you and Danielle. Thank you.

I hope you have a smoother day and a pleasant weekend. Do you think my MM will call me? I don’t know. I don’t think so. I’m just assuming he’s desperately begging her to stay with him and having my number turn up on ID is the unthinkable for him. I just pray he isn’t hurt or sick and I hope on some level he is missing me as much as I miss him. I am just so torn about how he can just dump me like this without even so much as a good bye, after all we’ve said and shared with eachother. Why do I deserve this? Do you think he ever really loved me at all?

We’ll continue to keep in touch STN, continue on your path of happiness, you are definitely headed to something beautiful, serenity. I hope I'm able to find that path soon, this sorrow is unbearable.

Corinne

Hi all,
I am 81plydJ, some annoymous name given by e forum. anyway, I will log in as Jgirl now.
I am really glad that u all responded to me and very touched by the way u gals support one another... I always thought no one understands and I have no one to talk to cos this is nothing to be proud of and at times I am simply ashamed at myself for falling for a 2 timer.

My MM jus got married last mth. I met him 2 yrs back when he was engaged and many times he wanted to stop contacting me but did not eventually. He loves me, but he can readily give me up for his wife. I know it, cos he often mention :" In future if we can't meet up or..." He'd nv leave her for me and he made it very clear frm the beginning of the relationship.
I'm young, attractive and have got many suitors but I cant seem to bring myself to go out on dates with those guys. even if i do go out, my heart is with him and at times i really feel that i'd rather be alone than be with someone else i have no feelings for. I know u all must be nodding ur head and agreeing with me. Thats the trap we are in, and i really wanna get out of it.

Do u ladies ever wonder...perhaps if we really had a chance to live with the MM in our lives, we might realise in time to come that they are not the one we thought we wanted? Cos our relationship with them are so flowery without commitments and very less fights, therefore the times spent are full of joy and sexual pleasure without worrying abt kids, money, job...

Jus to share a short story with u guys..I have an aunt i live with, she's 67 and she had been with her MM for over 40 years! He comes over once in awhile, only to have lunch or sex and thats all. He comes over when he feels like it and i see him text my aunt:"IM BUSY TODAY" "NO TIME" on her cell.

I often question myself: Do i wanna be like her when i'm her age? Alone everyday during retirement, no one to share her woes with, and having to give in to an old man's sexual desires even after menopause?!
She wasted her youth on him and I am sure, she regrets. If she could turn back time, I'm sure she'd grit her teeth and move on and meet some other guys and have a companion she loves who loves her in return now.

I seriously do not want to wait till im old and all my frens are married and no one wants me... and before i know it i have given up all my opportunities for a guy who might jus say:"hey, this isnt getting us anywhere..its hard but we got to move on".

It sure is hard..and I really admire U brave gals who even initiated to stop meeting up with ur MM. U gals are so brave. I cant do it... He seem to be the reason i live, the reason i work, the reason i drive, the reason I am me. THe one in control of my life is him, and i seriously hate that feeling.

For u gals who have started to move on, congrates and dont look back!! Keep moving on..u'd get there. The hardest is to take the 1st step out, which I can't seem to do.................

Hello again STN
It is afternoon here now, the time where about 4 usual call times have passed and, as much as I'd love to tell you my MM called, he hasn't. I can almost hear some of the judgmental people I've seen on this site saying get over yourself he isn't going to call. Yes I know I'm the other woman, yes I know he has a wife who he is probably trying desperately to get back to now that she has made herself the one turning away (just like you said he might do to me). That doesn't make it any easier. I have to admit I tried to call him from what I know was an unidentifiable number, but no one answered. I can't help but wonder was he there and just didn't answer because he knew it was me or is he truly out. It is at a time of day he'd be home alone so it is one or the other, he's ignoring me or...well....he's ignoring me. There is so much history between us, so many years and emotions shared and felt, even our child. I just don't understand why he is just cutting me off like this, complete and total shut out. I feel like I'm spinning out of control, my heart breaks more and more with each passing moment. Sometimes I feel like I can’t breath, like I’m suffocating and wind up in a ball on my knees. I love him, I love him so much and I can’t believe he is done with me so quickly and abruptly. We shared feelings, love, mailed eachother notes and things, we talked about the future and the past, memories and beautiful dreams. When we hung up on Sunday he said “I love you, good night” and that was it. How the hell did I go from that to being the outsider. He was so afraid of some pictures he’d sent to me that once I saw them I’d say good bye. That was as recently as a week ago, he was so afraid I would no longer be interested. I told him I loved him and nothing would change that and after I saw them I still loved him, I told him even more then before. What the hell is happening? I’m so lost, the pain is just too much. Why does he not care I was there Monday when he wanted me to be and we didn’t catch up with eachother, how could he not care that we have a child together, how and why is he doing this.

Hello again STN,
I noticed that my first post today didn’t seem to make it on the page. I can’t remember all I said on there but I agreed with you that a trip to the Himalayas sounds like a beautiful idea, it would be very therapeutic for you. I’m so happy that you are able to realize your MM loves you and that the two of you have just come to an understanding that your hearts will always be one but you lives can never be together. That is a painful definition for you I know, but knowing you love him, and he loves you just as much will hopefully bring you some comfort and peace.

I find great peace visiting the ocean. I love everything about the shoreline and find it so serine and tranquil. Unfortunately peace like that for me brings memories of my MM. You know we started talking this spring, and prior to that it had been about a year and a half that we had spoken. I always would think about him during that time, where he was, was he happy but somehow I always knew he still loved me. Now that our communications became so very frequent and our expressions of love became much more intense I’m crushed at the loss of it. I regret ever contacting him this past spring, I supposed I should have just let it alone even though he has repeatedly asked me why I waited so long to call. Now that I think he’s gone quiet time is unbearable. I can hear his voice so clearly in my head telling me he loves me, that he needs me, that he wants me. Beautiful words he said to me. I’m haunted by them.

I hope the planning of your trip continues, it sounds beautiful. You are on a wonderful path to happiness and peace, the memories of your MM will be beautiful and love will find you, be sure of that. I hope you enjoy your weekend.

Corinne

Hi JGirl,

I just wanted to write a quick note to say that yes, I think you're right, we probably would see the down-sides to our MM if we were actually married to them...but somehow I'd rather be with my MM with all of his faults than alone or with someone I love less. And that's the trick for me and it sounds like you too - that is to find someone you love as much as you love your MM. I can't do it. I finally just told myself, after months of agony, that it will be healthier for me to be alone for the rest of my life than it would be for me to keep wanting a life with him. But that decision is so painful, especially in the beginning, that it's almost impossible to make it straight out. Pulling away little by little worked better for me because I just wasn't able to find the strength to do it any faster. The problem is that I live where my MM works, so I just can't escape him long enough to make a clean break.
I think you're thinking along the right lines: you definitely don't want to end up like your aunt, that situation sounds so sad. I don't know what it is with these men who treat us all like spare tires or side-dishes. Do we all have signs on our foreheads that say 'Please mistreat me'???! I don't get why they think it's okay to give us so little and expect so much and I don't get why we're willing to do it - but God help us, we are. How do other women get men to treat them better? I think I missed the boat, I just don't get it. I don't meet men I like and finally, when I did fall in love, it was with someone who had nothing to offer me other than occasional affection and lots of adoration...and lots of pain and suffering.
Don't be too hard on yourself if you can't make that first step away from your MM right now. It's a good sign that your mind is willing and hopefully your emotions will learn to follow your head, little by little or even suddenly and all at once. It sounds like your at the very beginning of a horribly hard but healthier path.
By the way ladies, Corinne and Danielle, I just found out that I'll be on assignment back here in the Middle East next year...living in the same spot I'm in now after an 8 month stint in Italy. That means I'll be around my MM again for about 16 more months starting next July or August. This news would have made me so happy at one time, and now it makes me feel like I'm going to be thrown back in prison, the mental and emotional prison that I've been in for so long and have tried so hard to escape. I just can't believe it. In some ways I'm just hoping that the time I spend in Italy in between will help me make all the necessary adjustments so that when I come back, none of this will feel so hard. UGgh!!! Maybe I should just quit my damn job and get a new life all together.
Anyway, JGirl, take good care of yourself and we'll be here waiting to hear how you're doing.
xoxo, STN

Hello STN and all,
Trust me i know exactly how u feel..in fact we all do know how one another feel n im so glad theres a place like this for all of us to come together..

Stn: I know that im thinking on e right track but like all of us here, our brains tell us something but our heart tells us another.
It seems like each time we and our MMS wana pull away..there are loads of other factors that keeps us together, don u all agree? I wonder why...well there might be lots of reasons.. Should we really surrender to this??cos it seems not matter how hard we try we jus tire ourselves out. And things jus go back to square one again.

Jus wondering if any of u know any women with MMs and the managed to leave their MM for someone else better,more worth it??
COs it seems that most Other women like jus, hardly move on ....

hello dear STN,

Was reading on lost out time... was having problems with my computer back home. well i am degected you did not miss me :-(... but good to hear you are doing better.
me i finally broke off day before yesterday. i go from quite to a raving manic. but i am going to get through this. Men are such weak creatures and selfish creatures. i have been home, sitting and crying, took off, wanted to sleep but could not. when the hurt comes its like a tide, you cry and cry, and then peace for a little while.
he calls, and says sorry, but does that really help... says he wants to help me with the pain... etc but what help is he 2000 miles away... so i told him not to call... it only reminds me of what i do not have, and makes me mad with grief.

i dont know if he will get more loving etc... as everyone on this site suggests, as you start drawing away, so i have no idea what i will feel then... there is a part of me that hates him, he was my best friend of 11 years, how could he do this to me? how could he do this if he was never going to tell his wife. he knows how much hurt i have been through in my life... i keep asking that to him, and myself... he says he just fell in love, and thought he will find the courage do the right thing, but he never did, and does not think he will... he says all the wonderful stuff, and i wonder what all does he tell his wife?

i totally understand when you say you cry on streets, me too, cant stop the tears sometimes... but it will get better, it will... it has to

to all the suffering women here, keep your faith it will get better, we need to learn to love ourselves more

take care

dali

Hello Jgirl,

You and I are in the same place in that we both know in our heads that we need to pull away from our MM and at the same time our hearts have a stronger hold on what we feel and do.

I can't offer great advise as STN does on how to accomplish pulling away and finding that greater place, it is a difficult process and one I'm in the middle of right now as you are. My relationship with my MM took a bad turn a couple of months ago and his sincerity has deminished to nothing but erotic sexual thoughts. It seems you've at least have made the first step and first realize that you will need to pull away, doing it is something entirely on its own and takes great time and patience. It hurts, don't get me wrong, it hurts like hell, but realizing we deserve better is our first step. I am trying but I'm so desperately in love with my MM that the idea of being without him seems paralyzing. Time will decide what destiny holds for us.

I'll keep you in my thoughts for peace and happiness. I look forward to continuing communicating with you.

Corinne

Jgirl and Corinne
Well STN knows my motto. Fuck em. I say it and i'm going to keep saying it. I cut my MM loose after 1.5 years and I've never been happier. I get angry Corinne when I hear how upset you are. He is not worth all this pain and agony; taking you through all these changes. Ask STN, I yelled at her all the time for letting her MM drive her emotions. Corinne, the next time he calls you, tell him to take a "one-way trip to hell." I guarantee he will start blowing your phone up calling you 20-30 times a day. I speak the truth..... STN is my witness. And yes, I keep it real. I'm not all warm and fuzzy like her (love you girl). But aren't you sick of this motherf*cker taking you through all this BS. Get angry about it, dammit. Ain't nobody goin give you better unless you demand better.

I gotta bring the quote out... Never make someone a priority in your life while allowing yourself to be their option.

Ladies, it's all love..... just a lil bit a tough love. Love ya'll

Hello Smarter Than This,
I have been meaning to respond to your postings. In a way, I guess I never responded because it seems as though you got it all together. Your MM is actually getting a divorce. The majority of us on this board would love to have accomplished that. Or at least I know I would have. So I really didn't know how to respond to your post. But on this board, we stick together...so if you need advice and the like, we need to be here for you as well. I understand the "trust" issue, but you have to let that go. You know how you met him, so just look for the warning signs and go from there. You were once the OW, so you know exactly what to look for. If you'd like to talk more about it further, just hit me back and I'll respond. Just so I know you're still around (before I post a long message) since no one initially responded to your post.

Hello Dali,
It is wonderful to see you back on the site, I've wondered what happened to you. I'm sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time. You've given me inspiration and an understand heart, I hope I can do the same for you.

You are correct in we all need to love ourselves a little more, and move on. The pain of accepting we can not be with the one we love can at times be overwhelming, but with each day comes more acceptance and understanding. You MM loves you, move on with that, no argument, no hate, just the love you have and the understanding that it isn't your destiny. We are all learning destiny and fate are harsh sometimes and don't always hand us what we most desire. So as you've told me, love yourself, love your MM and remember all the good that your realtionship brought you trying not to focus on the what if's and if only's.

I'm traveling down the same path, my MM is 600 miles away, he's alone now (for the time being), angry and depressed and yet still unwilling to come get me (like I told you before). He said to me "come and get me, if you loved me you'd be here, talk is cheap". I'd love to hear him say "my life is open to you, I love you so much I'll wait for you, we'll spend the rest of our days together". No, I hear he's tired of the BS, he wants to F**K me (I've always preferred making love, f**k sounds so dime store hookerish). Anyway, he's hurting right now and in turn hurting me. STN has given me some great insite on how to follow the path to peace but it is a bumpy path and full of harsh reality. I don't know if my MM loves me but it sounds like your's loves you. Keep him and the happiness you shared with him in your heart, it will help you move on.

We'll communicate soon, take care of yourself and try to be happy.

CB (Corinne)

Dali!
I'm so glad you're back. To be honest, I thought that things were going so well for you that you just decided not to remind yourself of the painful times by writing here again. Anyway, I'm really sorry you've hit on difficult times with your MM. I've also been pretty angry about my MM's not being 'able' (or willing) to find a way to keep me. There's something inside me telling me, at this point, that I'm going to be glad I made the break, but I feel so betrayed that he hasn't done more to make things viable between us. It's a real let down, I'm so disappointed in him in this respect...even though I know there's not a lot he can do, I wish he at least gave the appearance of having tried absolutely everything...he hasn't really made me feel that way, I sense more that he's giving up and doing what's easiest for him. But like I said, there's no real way for things to work with us right now anyway - he's got 6 kids to send to university and he's married to his cousin. those are ties that bind for a lifetime. I'm not sure that he gets more 'loving' when I pull away, I meant to say that he gets more manipulative, he tries to get me dependent on him again when I start to back away...but this just means he starts doing everything he knows I want him to do. I guess I'm being hard on him tonight, but in many ways this is pretty much true. I think I'm just trying to say I get why you feel hurt and disappointed in your MM, I get it completely. This bad feeling of disappointment has actually helped me get over him that much faster (not easier, but it's definitely speeding up the process). now that I can see he will never move mountains to save our relationship, I just don't want to invest as much in it as before. Oh well. The good news is that things are finally getting better, the horrible aches I was feeling, dizziness, lack of appetite, etc etc are all gone. I'm hurt, really hurt, but I'm not suffering like before. I almost feel numb ... or just plain exhausted from it all. I know you'll find a better place for your heart in the future. I hope it comes quickly for you. xoxo, STN

Ladies Ive read your stories on here for a while now and I just want to tell you all to keep your heads up. I wish that I could go back to the moment when I first met him. It would of all been different. I dont really regret anything now but in my case like a very small percentage of women, I have him. I know your probably thinking that I cant relate to you all on here but I have been there for over a year. Everyday was agony, wondering if he was going to leave her and be with me. Knowing that after we were intimate he had to hurry up and go home. The torment that I put myself through killed me. I am a very visual person and having these constant daydreams of him being intimate with her killed me. Was I being selfish? These were questions I pondered everyday. Then there was the guilt episode. Am I a homewrecker? Did I destroy lives? But then I finally woke up and realized we dont cause a default in a marriage its THEM. There was a time when I was so stressed out over him I got very ill and lost alot of weight. I lost over 25 lbs and didnt have the motivation to do anything. He was constantly on my mind. Was this all worth it? I ask myself this question everyday. I know he loves me but theres a part of me that always wonders if he will go back to her. That's what Im going through right now, and I feel worse than I did before. I once thought it would be a cake walk after they were done. It's very difficult for a M.M to immediately start a relationship with the OW after leaving the ex. We talk alot about it, he says he's fine with it all but I can see it in his face. He's very confused and wants to be with me for the long haul, but the ex is trying to get back with him. How do we move on? Its not that simple at all ladies trust me. For example if they have children, she will constantly try to use that to her advantage. He will be weakened by it. It very upsetting when you see a grown man that has a very strong nature being affected by this extorsion. A part of me is in distress because of the betrayl that he once lived by when he was with her. Ladies, I catch him in (little white lies) constantly, he just gives me exuses that hes just trying to be amicable with his ex. Like I said I thought that "Stage 2" in all of this would be beautiful similiar to a romantic fairytale. BULLSHIT! But thats the fundamentals of life. We live, we learn and most of all we make mistakes. I am torn because I dont know what the future holds. I hope to talk to you all again and give you some insight with your issues and most of all, you have a friend on here that truly understands all of you! Take care and talk to you soon, Jamie

Hello Smarter than this,

I thinkk my situation may be similar to yours, but just a little further along. My MM did get divorced. We are still together. But I struggle all the time with guilt. I fell into being the other woman accidentally, probably like everyone on this forum. But I ended up being the "bad guy" in the entire community. His kids (older) hate me. His xw harasses me with phone calls, drive-bys, any number of rumors. It's funny...I have always been a very strong independent woman and I would have never pictured myself putting up with this, but I think a part of me feels as if this is my due. If anyone knows the answer to getting over the guilt, I sure would love to hear it!!!

And I really want to send a lot of love to every gal on this forum. Being the other woman is painful in its own right, and we are always villanized. But just remember, people can never truly understand unless they have been in the position themselves.

Just a brief venting moment, I'm not feeling as brave as I did this morning. Again, 3 of our "usual" calling times have passed and I've heard nothing from my MM. He seems not to have time to talk but had a moment to leave a nasty message this morning. Damn I wish I'd got to the phone in time, I may be feeling differently now. He's back to total control, I can't call home, can't call work, just can't call I can only wait for him, wait for a call that seemingly never comes until he's horny enough.

I just want to hide in a closet and cry at the moment. Why I don't know, because I want him to love me, to want me like before and I don't think he does, because I think he lied to me all along, because I think I mean nothing to him therefore I feel like nothing. I love him, I love him so much and I can't understand what makes me feel that way. I love who I thought he was, or maybe is and just isn't that way becuase he's upset right now.

This emotional rollarcoaster is killing me, I feel so sick. I am his puppet aren't I. How do I cut these strings and stop desperately wanting him to be the way he was this summer.

Jamie,
thank you for your note, it is nice to hear there is at least a stage 2. I did consider it would be difficult if I did/do end up with my MM how I would feel with the involvement of his first wife and their kids (now 1 adult and 1 teenager), and his feelings for his now (maybe) soon to be 2nd x wife. I've been a part of his life for a long time, since the first wife, but that doesn't mean I may be the next one he cheats on. The relationship started for me because I'd fallen in love with him almost at first site and have told him that, for him it was pure sexual desire but he claims he fell in love with me. You and your MM love eachother, you can build on that. Leaving his wife was a huge move for him, one that doesn't often happen for the OW. It sounds like you are both on the right path to a loving life together, working out the issues with the x will take time, but it sounds like you are the one he wants his life with, the one who is in his heart. I pray you continue on the loving path.

Corinne

He has 2 children with her that are 8 and 11. Do you all think that he'll definately go back since their young?

Hey Jamie,
You have to focus on the positive. He's with you. He actually left her, so that says a lot. As for the children, they play the biggest role in most marriages. People stay for the kids and that's the truth. I believe that she is going to use the kids to her advantage. But if he left for himself and not you, then you should be fine. Stage 2 is only just begun because she is going to fight tooth and nail to get him back, but you have to fight just as hard. Hang in there and we're here for you.

Jamie,
Your man loves you, he's made the move to you and you are together. Remember, just considering doing that was a big step for him, especially with kids involved. Often times parents stay together for the kids and that is all the wrong reasons because it fills a house with negativity between the mother and father, which rubs off on the kids. He had to courange to recognize his true love and moved forward. Just as we can't help falling in love with someone neither can we help falling out of love with someone and that is what happened for he and his wife. He loves you, he's with you. Yes, you will have some bumps in the road with regard to the children but I believe if you stay open about it with your man, be as friendly with the children as you can, even if they are being spiteful to you, it should all work out in the end. Keep in mind the kids are going to have a very hard time with this and will be angry at you, especially if their mom is feeding them bad thoughts. They will see you for the beautiful person their father saw you as in time.

I know it is hard not to worry, I'm a big worrier, focus on the fact that you are together. Keep romance very alive in your alone time, things will work out fine.

You are on in my thoughts!
XOXO Corinne

I don't think so..he has already "jumped" I like to say with you..that is a major step. His kids will always be his life and you should support and encourage that part so he doesn't feel resentful with you.

He probably feels guilty that he can't be around them all the time like he use too but he loves you and wants a life with you. Try and be strong regarding the kids, I know it's hard, my MM has a 5 & 1 year old, he spends time with them alone, I think subconiciously getting ready to "jump" but until he does I just don't know.

You have the upper hand, be the woman he loves not the woman he left.

Hello all,
You know its all starting to sink in. I didn’t hear from my MM yesterday after he left that nasty message. You know, I would have been ok if we’d left our communications off with our talk Monday night after I did the unthinkable and called him. Even though he called me back only because I did that we still talked and it was still beautiful to hear his voice and to “make him feel good”. It didn’t have to end with that nasty message early the next morning.

I won’t hear from him again, he’s obviously so scared of her finding out we talk, seeing my number on the ID, that she won’t come back. If he loved me, he wouldn’t care just as I don’t care and I call him back anytime he lets me know I can call, wherever I am. I really believed all the things he’s told me, how much he loved me, how I’ve always been in his heart after all these years, that I have a place in his life. I believed it, I wanted to believe it and now the reality of it not being true is just killing me. He doesn’t care about me, about the fact that we have a child together. I can’t sleep, can’t eat and cry every time I’m alone. The holidays are coming up, the most peaceful romantic loving time of the year and I can just imagine them getting together caught up in all that emotion of it all and the make up love they’ll be making. I’m pushed out of the heart he said I was in, the place in his life he said I had. Why did he lie to me so much, what could he have possibly gained from it. He can never imagine the love I have for him or care about the pain he has caused me. I try to ask myself why I love him so, what about him am I in love with and I really can’t figure it out but I can’t stop it either. Sometimes it takes my breath away and I feel I can’t breath. I just don’t feel I can make it through this heartache.

It’s my fault, I shouldn’t have rang his phone, but whether I did that or not this end was inevitable. Nothing ends nicely I imagine I’ll have to accept that. I love him, how do I go on without that. He’s been in my heart for 20 year and I see his child’s face with his eyes every day. Our child will never know about him, I would never want her to know how cold, calculating and manipulative he is and how he was to me.

This OW has lost the battle, pathetically, for the second time to a different woman. It isn’t fair, I was around long before her, the second wife, I should have said yes to him when he asked me to marry him years ago. Again, all my fault. I wonder if he was serious back then? I guess I’ll never know. I never wanted to lose him NEVER.

Hi Connie,

Im so upset that your feeling this way..always remember things happen for a reason. Things may seem like there not making sense at the moment..but someday it will. God.. after reading your last post I learned alot about your extensive past with him. I know there's alot more that I dont know but I am here for you and I will give you a helping hand whenever you need it hun. Unfortunately, yes the holidays are here! I remember last December when I wasnt with him. Even now, I see a slight void in him. He misses his children so much and it devestates him more and more as christmas approaches. The holidays are tough enough even if your with someone you love dearly..but when their not with you, its hell. You need to be strong, and YOU WILL get through this difficult time. Hell, Im the worse when it comes to worrying..you have no idea. I'll worry myself sick. You both seem like you have a very strong bond together..more so of the wife. That is so hard to find in this world, and yes it means something..even to him! It may not seem like he cares, naturally the holidays are very hard for all of us to see them. Im not sure what the phone conversation was about so I cant get into detail about overcoming it. My situation is also driving me up a wall, not with him but the ex. She's purposely torturing him, even more so that the holidays are here. It drives me nuts and gets me so angry because morally he's trying to do the right thing. Yes I may of won in a sense but he has never forgotten about his obligations with his children. Their young so of course they want daddy around. And with the wife preaching about this to him, it makes it difficult to "lock in" what I currently have. God I wish there was a happy ending for all of us! How much pain can we deal with? I'll tell you, when this is all over and we officially move on, a nice vacation from this madness is in the cards for us. Connie, he will call, my bf used to do the same exact shit to me all the time. It was never out of guilt for her, it was because I wanted more. He knew this for a while and took it in stride until finally it clicked. He realized that no matter how important his life was back at home, that I was with him 100%. That I truly loved him like a great woman does. It takes a man longer than a woman for all of this to click, but when it does..he'll never make that mistake of letting you go. Well Im sorry this was long but like I said Im here for you and I think this is great we all can come in here with understanding women(which rarely exists) and talk. Please let me know how everything is going with you, because it will be alright. It always turns around...remember that!
xoxoxoxo
Jamie <3

Hi Allison,

Thankyou for your encouragement. Boy, I need it lately. I've read your past postings and it seems like we have sort of the same situation. Hopefully everything is still going well with your M.M. I read that he gave you a promise ring..hey Im jealous I never got one of those yet! Haha. Like I said in my letter to Connie, for the most part everything is going well most of the times. We still have our bad days due to the ex. What about you? Does she know about you two or have an idea?? Have the children met you at all? I know I have alot of questions..guess im curious. Well if I dont talk to you before the holidays I hope you enjoy them and best of luck! <3
xoxoxo
Jamie

Brji,

Your story really hit home to me. Im dealing with the same boloney as we speak, its so amazing how all of our stories are so similar. I dont know how long its been for you since the divorce took effect, but I had my guilt episodes really bad. I was really sick, lost alot of weight, cried..blah blah.. and had no desire to do anything because I was convinced that I was the homewrecker. You see you and I are very caring people. If we didnt care about others then this would be no sweat off our backs. The wife always seems to think that we're heartless bitches that destroy lives. That is not the case at all. There's alot of women out there that don't care about hurting the people that are close to them. We are not the ones that destroy lives or marriages, its THEM. Yes we may be at fault for succumbing to a vile situation, but the fact of the matter is there the ones with the vows. His ex calls me all the time, hangs up, prank calls him, I mean its so ridiculous. She threatens him with his children because of his adultery. I think just like you when you said about "your dues". Well you know that can also be turned around in the world of Karma..maybe its her due. Who's to say? They got divorced for a reason..there was no more happiness! Sure there's couples out there that will go to marriage counseling or just plain talk if they suspect infidelity. That was their problem...not yours hun..their marriage couldnt be salvaged. Does he feel guilty about any of this? Hopefully I helped somewhat but trust me, I am soo in your shoes right now and totally understand. Hope you get through all of this and please keep in touch, Im looking to hear from you soon! :)

xoxoxoxo
Jamie

Im sorry "Corinne" I put Connie I think you know who it was intended for! :)

Hi Ladies,
I just bought my tickets for Italy, looks like I leave December 28th (so I'm really Stuck till December instead of November, but I don't want to call myself STD, that would just be embarassing:). I felt like writing again because my MM is acting strange. When i look at pictures we took about a month ago, we look so in love. Now we've both become really serious and formal in some ways...there's a wall growing up between us. Both of us are stepping away from all those feelings of love we share, I guess it's a kind of defense. I have to say that I feel a lot more stable when we act like this, but I miss how we used to stare into each other's eyes and how we used to light up the room whenever we were together. We still kind of do, but not as much as before. I'm thinking of quitting my job so that I won't have to come back here next year. When I said my MM is acting strange, I meant that he's always looking for signs from God or the universe that he's doing the right thing...this often means he tries to find signs from God that it's good to let me go, so he often keeps blaming me for stupid things, saying I'm wrong about things I had nothing to do with. I try to laugh it off, but really, it's making things a bit sour. I guess I'll feel better in a few days. I already got my flat set up in Italy, I'm really looking forward to being in the West again, to being normal, to no more head games. By the way Corinne, I really get the idea that your MM is playing serious head games with you - I don't mean to say he doesn't love you, I'm sure he does, I just mean that he's really got his own weird set of standards and he keeps making you so dependent on him so that you go along with them. I mean, in the real world, you're bending over backwards to make things work with him and this is really clear to anyone...anyone and everyone except him. He's living in some kind of weird selfish head game where you've actually been bad to him when you've been nothing but accomodating to all of his needs, wishes, and guilt-trips. I just want you to know that at least I think you've done far more for him than he has had any right to expect, you've gone so far out of your way for him, you've given him the best of yourself that you have to offer. If he tells you anything different, I think he's completely wrong (based on everything you've written). Still, my MM does the same and I always wind up trying to get him to see that I've been 'good' and not 'bad'. It's really a lame part of our relationship, he's completely messed up in this area...but God help me, I keep putting up with it. I just keep calling things like I see them, without getting angry...I'm not really sure that I should be so patient with this, but oh well, I'm about to leave anyway, a little more patience for the sake of a fragile peace won't kill me.
Well, I just wanted to write a little note (at least it's little compared to all my other entries:). Please write soon and tell me how you are.
Lots of love, STN

Hi Ladies,

I'm interested in your perspectives. This little summary of my situation will hardly do the whole relationship justice, but if there was anyone who would understand that, it would be you all.

Okay, so in a nutshell:
We've been involved for a little more than two months. We've known each other for at least four. He and his wife married less than a year ago, just before he went overseas, so benefits would be provided to their five-year-old daughter (they weren't romantically involved during those five years) in case anything happened to him and he didn't return from Iraq. They've been living together just this past year.

We're affectionate towards one another, but haven't had sex. We've become such great friends, companions and confidants, and genuinely care about one another. In fact, she knows me, knows we spend time together and even spends time with a male friend (I don't know how much, but it's enough that their daughter called him "daddy" in front of me -- is it just me, or is that an indication?).

The last two months haven't been "perfect" (Regardless of how or why they got married, I wrestled with my traditional values, feelings for him, and the fact that I know her and didn't want to hurt anyone).

In fact, I ended it because I couldn't continue to knowingly put ourselves at risk: I deserved to be with someone under the right circumstances, and if his marriage needed to end, it shouldn't end because of us; there were very real consequences at stake that could include losing his daughter if we were seen in what appeared to be a compromising situation. I cared enough to let him go, saying that no matter how right we felt together, the circumstances were wrong.

Just as I was trying to accept that I probably wouldn't see him again, that he would make it work with her for their daughter...he told me he was ready to leave. That he'd thought about it before, but that you can think about losing a foot but never realize how much you'll miss it until it's gone (I thought that was a funny way of saying it).

I'm sure you're wondering if he said this just to keep me around longer, but even despite that, I still insisted we distance ourselves so we could think things through and he could plan and act accordingly if this is something he was choosing to do and that it needed to be his decision. In fact, we've stopped seeing each other anyway, but occasionally talk on the phone. And he's continued to research his options.

I've even asked if either/both of them have tried to connect with one another --asked him if he wanted time to reconsider -- but he said that it hasn't happened in the five years...
...the general consensus of my girlfriends is that I shouldn't talk to or see him, regardless of whether or not he follows through with pursuing a divorce (if he does, I can talk to him AFTER).

Thoughts? Perspectives? Advice?

Hello RH,
I agree 100% with your girlfriends. Leave that situation alone until he handles his business (i.e. divorce). You don't want any of that guilt on you; or you never want to feel like he can blame you. Just back away from him and if he really wants a life with you, he'll come to you the right way... signed divorce papers in hands.

RH
Welcome to our crew. Let me tell you, you are definitely in the right mind set. It sounds like you and your man have a great love for eachother, one that sounds like it will stand the test of time. However, that being said, I believe it is best for you to stay away from the situation until he works out his marriage situation, and is free to be with you mind, body and soul completely.

That being said, I do believe you will be with him based on the love you explained you both have for eachother. Keep the relationship non physical for now mearly to protect yourself. You are number 1 and worthy of a loving, kind, peaceful and fulfilling relationship. Wait for him, wait for your future together. It sound like his marriage is based out of obligation, for both of them, for the sake of the child. His heart sounds like it is with you.

Hang in there, believe me I know how hard it is to stay away and unfortunately I know how it is even more difficult when you don't. Hold on to your love for him, if you are in his heart the way you said, he will come to you when the time is right. If it seems like he isn't moving away from the marriage and wants to hold on to you at the same time, let go. You deserve a loving relationship from someone who can give you 100 % of themselves and wants you 100%, not someone who wants you on the side. This doesn't sound like what will happen though. You will be happy with your man some day when the time is right, hold on.

Corinne

Hello Jamie,
Thank you for your encouragement and kind words. You make me realize a terrible mind pattern I am putting myself through that makes the whole situation worse. I harp on every word, the good and the bad and it is driving my emotions to the breaking point. You are right, we do have a strong bond between eachother, one that has, for whatever reason, kept us together all these years even though we are so far apart. I know he regrets that we he moved away all those years ago and wishes things were different. It is painful now to think all he wants is sexual things, when we re-started talking this year the first few months our conversations were full of our dreams, thoughts, ideas and kids. Things we've seen and done, things we wanted to see and so on. The last months it has been really nothing but sex, erotic and sometimes weird sexual things like him wanting a three way. There have only been two men in my life I've been intimate with, I couldn't imagine another man inside of me just for the sake of his sexual arousal. Don't you think that is a bit of a strange fantasy to want to watch me get f**ked, I would never want to see the man I love being intimate with another woman, is it normal for a man to want to see the woman he "loves" do that? Honestly it is making me feel like a tramp, adding to my desperation.

Anyway, I know he's angry now and confused with his wife gone (supposedly). I so want to comfort him and make him feel better but I can't continue dragging myself through the mud at the same time. Love isn't supposed to hurt like this, it isn't supposed to make me feel so desperate I cry every time I'm alone in the car, in the shower. I can't eat, can't sleep and feel shaky all the time. I hear your words, I will get through this, I just don't see the light at the end of this tunnel yet. The holidays will be very hard.

Thank you again for your kind words, sympathetic ear, and loving advise.

I think your situation will improve with time. You and your man love eachother and that is what is most important. The kids will come around to the situation and the x wife, she has no choice but to get over it. Time will heal her wounds and she too will find someone else. Continue to be loving and supportive to your man, you are the woman in his life and the one he holds in his heart.

XOXO Corinne

Hi RH,

I only wanted to say that you were really sooo much smarter than I was. I had no idea what kinds of consequences there would be if I started to fall for a married man - I didn't see five minutes into the future when it started happening and I have paid for it dearly. Whatever you decide to do at this point, you have to at least pat yourself on the back for being smart enough not to go too far before deciding to pull yourself away from your MM. For what it's worth, I think that if he's sincere enough to come to terms with his fairly odd marriage and to leave it in a way that shows he's an honorable guy and willing to do whatever he can to be a good father, then you shouldn't block him out of your life completely. I don't know how much of a space or what kind of space you should give him in your life, but anyway, he sounds like a pretty decent guy who's in a strange situation. I'm really not too impressed with myself in the area of building lasting love-relationships, so I don't want to give any more advice than that.
Good luck with your decision, I'm sure you're going to make the right one, it sounds like you have your head on straight.
STN

Hi Corinne,
One more quick note. I just read your message to Jamie and saw that you're at the stage where you're shaking, crying, not eating, not sleeping. I just wanted to let you know that this stage lasted about 2 months for me, with big ups and downs, points where I was totally in control for about 10 minutes or at best a couple of hours and then totally out of control for about 10 hours or even a few days, before it really became bearable. So please don't get discouraged if it's unbearable, it's part of the process. I know it feels like pouring acid in your wounds to pull back from your MM and to set things right with him, but it's going to feel better, a lot better, over time. You're going to be okay, better than okay, and you'll be so glad you did it even if it's the hardest thing you've ever had to do. I'm concerned that it may take you longer to feel better since you've been attached to your MM for so many years, but I'm hoping not. Who knows, you may even heal faster since you have the love for your children to comfort you. I'm not sure how these things work, but one way or another, I'm sure that good/healthy actions fill your life with good things over time.
Love, STN

hello STN,

great to hear about Italy... its beautiful, and i an sure it will do you wonders.if you go to Florence, give my love to the streets :-)

me well i have come to a quiter self, and i have found it in myself to stop asking the Why me? questions. my MM has been patient, still calls, he says he will accept anything which i think is fine for me, says he wants to keep in touch, as he will always love me, and want me as a friend, but if it hurts me he will stop calling. I have realised he does love me, and its me who has to decide the course of our friendsip, i dont know if i can go back to just friends. he came to see me, and we kept it low key, he was suffering, i can see it in his eyes, but one kiss and all resolve melts so i am not sure i can keep in touch, only time will tell... as it still hurts to give up the forever dream... but i try to let hope in, that i will find it in myself to be happy again...

take care all of you out there

dali

Hi im new to this site but i have a question. im 25 years old my m.m has the biggest dick i have ever been with, and i am addicted to it. my ex before him was small so now that ive been with him its great! he told me that his wife never wanted to have sex with him and i dont understand why. maybe she wasnt good in the sack? well i just wanted to see if i could get some help on here for this addiction that im suffering from? ohhhh its so nice you all have no idea. he lets me take pictures of it!

Hello ladies and happy holidays!

I havent been on here for a couple days but just wanted to say hi and see how you all are doing? Well everythings going great with me he's going to have his 2 children with him for xmas which is very nice. He's so excited! Hopefully the ex-wife is gradually coming to terms with all of this, so she'll stop acting childish. (That would be a great xmas present). Send her a one way ticket to hell! The good news is he called me and hour ago and we're going out to a nice dinner tonight. So far this going too good ladies, something is bound to happen I can feel it! (I hope not)

Corinne, I hope everything is o.k. with you. Like STN said, yes for a couple months its going to be very difficult. I was taking anti-depressants, lost weight, stayed up all night, etc. I was there and it was horrific, I never want to feel that way again, but you will get through it! Your strong, and mainly your children need to see you being that way. I dont like to play games but I noticed when I purposely made myself "less available" it drove him nuts. There was a time when I disconnected my phone so he would wonder and fell right into that trap and it worked. Trust me, after the holidays your going to notice a change in him. The holidays bring out the worse in alot of people, yes even my man! Love you all lots and have a great holiday!!!

xoxoxoxo
Jamie

Hello Dali,

In these days, as I'm getting ready to leave (knowing I might still have to return in the autumn for another year), I feel very quiet...not happy, just to hurt to move in any particular direction emotionally. I don't get excited about things and I don't fall into deep depressions, I'm just holding on to some kind of floating device as I get tossed about by the waves, if you know what I mean. I'm so glad we your MM and my MM love us and that we know it - that's something, even if it's not what we'd dreamed of. I don't know how to give up the dream either, I only know how to force myself to stop thinking about it all the time. It takes all the energy I have to make myself focus on my real options and not on that dream I loved as much as I love my MM. Just as an idea, maybe you could spend time without contact for a while, until you feel stable again on your own, and then agree that you'll resume contact so that you can keep the friendship. My only other thought is that you might just force yourself to be friends who accept that love each other and can do nothing about it other than accept it. I'm sure there are other options, those are just the ones that come to mind. I'll be here for you as long as you might need someone to talk to.
xoxo STN

Hello Dali,
I hope you are able to find the peace and happiness you deserve. Your MM loves you, that is clear, and your love for him is clear as well. Keep all the fond loving memories in you heart, they will lead you to happiness again! No matter where you go, or who you love, always keep those loving memories with you to smile back on.

Happiness you will find!

Love,
Corinne

hello Corinne,

my dear, i wish i could do more, wish i could teach you the art of going to movies alone, go to a park alone with a book, and get lost in another world. My dear Corinne your MM is a very weak man. he is dependent so much on the women around him that he cant even get across a state to meet the women he loves, just because he might miss the one he has.
to tell you the truth, one of these days you need to go visit him without telling him! tell your kids its an interview, or some workshop... i think once you see him face to face it will be different, it always is. some of the shine wears off, and the reality sets in. you have lived long with your dream, you need to look at it with open eyes, to see if it really is worth it... and look at it with your mind, not your heart. and yes no sex talk on the phone, if he does not behave... it always makes you feel used.

Corinne, you are a very loving beautiful person, please try and get off this addiction. If there is a Yoga class around, do join it, it helps to become focused. it really helped me.

take care and keep in touch

dali

dear Jamie,

That is great news! hope it goes well for you, kids can be very tricky if you are going to spend time with them. so good luck.

dali

Dear STN,

thanks for the support.
from tomorrow, we will be on a 'only sos' contact basis. lets see how it works. but coming at a holiday time, and i will be alone, it will be very sad. but i will try my best to hold out on my own. we agreed call only in emergency, or when it get unbearable. he is going with his family for a wedding, so i dont think it will be so difficult, with all the activity around... i am going to have a tough time, as last year and before that we were together and had one of our greatest times together... sometimes i wonder how his wife does not realise? holidays he takes for himself, a week to ten days at a stretch, ... or does she just not want to see it? again no point wondering about it. I have to find myself something to stuff into my stockings :-)

take care, love
dali

Hi Jamie

Thanks for the kind response. Ya the ring is a funny story actually he found it in a bush at work, it was huge, one day he showed it to me and I'm irish..it's an actual Irish promise ring, I was explaining the meaning behind it etc..then a couple months later on our 1 year anniversary he presented it to me, sized and everything..it fit perfect! It was faite he found it...

As for his wife NO she doesn't know about us, I have met his son only.
Their marriage has been dead for several years and like many others they were staying together for 2 incomes to support the kids. They basically just co-exist. There is a part of me that wishes she would leave him as she has no interest in him at all, it's like they are living seperate lives already, her focus is just to be mom.

I know when he is ready he will leave her, I am not pushing that as I want him not to have any regrets. We have become so close more than I even expected us to be. Many things have changed, he actually talks about us living together. I feel a very strong bond happening more than ever, it's strange, just when I thought we had reached a level of intimacy, it grows.

How did he leave ? How long did it take ?

Don't be jealous about the ring..you are far more ahead of me in that department!! All the best and keep me posted.
Don't worry about the X.

XOXO

Hi Dali,

I just wanted to write you a quick note before going to bed. I'm sure these nexts weeks will bring some difficult times, there's no avoiding that...it always helps me to count my blessings when those bad moments hit me hard. I just keep building a mental list of all the things in my life I'm glad and grateful for when I want to ease the pain of not being able to have my MM. I wonder if that would help you. I hope so. Your idea of learning to do things alone and to like doing them alone is admirable. I'm trying something similar, but I have to admit, whenever I go out alone and bump into a happy couple, I end up feeling like crap by comparison. I know that's a bad attitude of mine and it has to change, but I feel it anyway.
I have another question and please feel free not to answer it, I'm only asking to try to learn something about why we OW end up being OW...I wonder if there's some kind of patterned behavior we're susceptible to. Anyway, my question is whether or not you had a good relationship with your father. I did not; I loved him, he loved me in a very selfish way and I never got enough attention from him, he never cared enough and he often showed more affection to and interest in my siblings than me. I wondering if somehow this relationship with my father is playing itself out in my relationship with my MM. I also feel my MM loves me, but the way the relationship is set up is that I'm always seeking his attention, always feeling neglected because he's giving his attention to his wife, family etc. There are some fundamental similarities so I wonder about the other OW here, if they see similarities between their relationships with their fathers and their MM. Just thought I'd ask.
xoxo, STN

Corinne

God after reading your last post you filled me in on how you really feel. It's so crazy when you sit back and think about the effects these men have in our lives. It literally makes me sick to my fu*@*ng stomach that these men can continue to have a disfunctional marriage to these women that treat them like SH%$! Here we have an amazing woman, who's pouring out her heart and soul to a man that deserves her and he's just too damn blind to see it. Corinne he's going to eventually wake up and see that his supposibly "happy marriage" is suffering from an serious irretrievable breakdown. Whenever he decides to come back to reality it may be too late..not for you..but for him. I am curious hun, do ever just point blank ask him if he wants to leave her and be with you. I know in my case which was similar I told him, that if I was him living in a marriage like that..I would of left along time ago. It's like cancer. It's only a matter of time when he comes to terms that life outside of theirs is worth living for. I questioned this everyday "How could he continue this?" My answer after many nights laying awake crying....Comfortablity. That's all this is. You get so caught up in regimens and routines, its what feels right to you. Believe me, it may not be right but its comfortable. You are such a beautiful woman Corinne. He needs to realize this..but I do feel that you can't continue this everyday stress either. Like all of us in here, we pretty much have the same stories, invest the same feelings and most importantly we all need to make the same decisions! He needs some kind of ultimatum. Barnone. It's going to hurt, he may even be pissed..but its not fair to both of you. When my M.M was pulling this same boloney I was terrified to tell him how I really felt..(deep down). I was sick, stressed, suffered from insomnia..I was miserable. I came on the website every now and then to see if I could get some support on what to do. Yes, the women we're very supportive but was I going to follow through with what we discuss on here everyday? Well, that considered some deep thought. Was he going to blow up at me for asking him such a question that "I" deserve to have answered? I made a decision after months and yes I did it. Of course he came up with a thousand excuses of why he couldn't, how much he loved me and how he didn't want me to leave. So I remained patient knowing that if I asked him again their would be two thousand excuses. The point Im trying to make is...that day is eventually going to come. There will be an awakening. That all depends on your strength and how long you can put yourself through this emotional torture. I do feel that after the holidays things are going to get better for the both of you. It's awful that it has to be an emotional rollercoaster. In my last post I said how the holidays are a big toll for everyone..especially marriages. I wish you nothing but the best Corinne, you are an extrodinary individual, even though I don't know you personally you are in my heart! Just keep holding on, and make the right decision for you! Keep in touch and talk to you soon!

xoxoxo
Jamie

You know I, like you, I have never opened up about my situation before, 20 years this has been going on, 2 years of a passionate affair that started in 1987 and 17 years of phone calls maintaining we love eachother. I keep finding myself coming back to this site to see if any of you have left a message and burden you all again with my emotional rollarcoaster.

It is 2pm where I am right now and I still haven't heard from him, I'd really hoped he would have called at lunch time like he has from time to time but nothing. I think the not knowing anything is making it worse but then again I really don't know if I could handle him calling saying they are together and trying to work out their love. Then I wonder how could they, she's told him his body is "disgusting", that sex is "forbidden" and "sinful", they apparently haven't had sex in more than a year and a half and before that it was far and few between and apparently as he has told me, horrible. I could go on and on about the terrible things he says about this woman, I can't imagine how he could love her or want that kind of life.

It gives me great comfort to know that you were at one time in a place I am now and it actually worked out for you. That you and your MM actually have a loving relationship together now and are making it work. The love you explain you share is beautiful. Safe, you feel safe in his arms and he says he'll always be there. That is so beautiful and gives me a glimps of hope. Unfortunately I do not think my MM is as strong as yours, and he has no children with this woman (want to know why, because she told him he was to unstable not to be in her group [cult]) so the only thing holding him back is facing a second divorce.

Oh Jamie, I'm so desperately in love with this man. I want to call the house so badly but keep saying to myself why, to hear her voice and know she's there, to maybe hear some sappy machine message she may have put on there, to be scolded by him for doing it. He has me so shut out, can't call work, can't call home. Do you know I check the obituaries and local papers for his area on line every day to make sure there wasn't some accident. I even call the hospitals to make sure he isn't here. I'm driving myself crazy. I want to hear from him so badly. At the same time I'm terrified to hear from him because I'm afraid it may be my kiss off call. At least I do know our last call ended with me saying "I love you" and he saying "I love you, I'll call you later if I can" and then we both said love you bye. Maybe that is my hope that it isn't over.

He told me once he was lost, he has not idea what lost actually feels like. I only wonder if he is missing me too?

Thank you for listening. Keep telling me about you situation, it sounds so beautiful and I'm so happy the kids will spend Christmas with you. I know they will be a bit of a challenge but it will be beautiful in the long run.

Much love!
Corinne
XOXO

Hello STN
You know I have to say, whatever you profession is, I do believe you would benefit into looking into a career in psychiatry or clinical psychology. You have sucha a beautiful way of viewing things and putting things into a comparitive perspective. The things you've said to me have helped me see things so much clearer and with more understanding. You would make an outstanding counselor.

That all being said, I wanted to say thank you. I'm holding on just as you are. I cry....alot. I can't really eat but I could stand to lose a little weight anyway. So, the days go by and because of you and the other lovely ladies on this site who so graciously care about me (as I do all of you), I'm gettin by as you are too. I'm really so excited for your Italy trip, I've never been there, I want to hear all about it.

We are here for eachother.
Much Love!
Corinne
OXOX

Hi STN and Danielle-

SOOOO sorry I haven't written in awhile. It's these men and job. I need your advice Danielle and STN. I don't know what to do. I'm dating a guy who is perfect the problem is, he is all about the military. He just got back from serving 8 yrs and wants to go back overseas the first time he gets. I'm not the 'military wife' type and I do not want to get hurt. I totally love this man but what would you do if you where in my situation? Jump in with two feet or run for the boarder? Love ya Samantha

Hi Samantha!
First, it's great to hear from you and to find out that you're in love again. I really admire your ability to bounce back and it gives me some hope for myself. But I'm sorry to hear he's not really your type in some important ways. For what it's worth, my grandmother once told me that when I really fall in love with someone, his circumstances and flaws won't matter to me. If I were you, I suppose I would try to take it a little slower and not try to decide everything about the future right now. I suppose I would also be a bit guarded...Heaven knows I have no idea how I'm ever going to dare to give my heart to someone again - I'm just glad to hear that you think you could actually do it, even if you decide not to. it's great that you're so into him, my advice is to just be a little careful. I think I'm a little older than you and one thing I can tell you, looking back on my 20s from my mid-30s, is that there are all kinds of things that I thought 'weren't me' or my style that ended up being things I really liked...and a lot of the things I liked back then seem awful to me now. Things I thought I wanted turned out to be not so great and things I thought I'd never want, well, I want those things more than anything right now. So maybe the role of a military wife, if things went that far, would be what you made of it. The only thing that makes me a little nervous for you is that you said he was perfect...but maybe you're only exaggerating:)
Let us know how things end up going...keep us posted!
Lots of love, STN

Hello STN,
Today is a new day and it was so nice to come in and see your beautiful note. You really have an incredible perspective on things, it's beautiful. You are completely right, I am and do have to move day by day and try not to concentrate on what "they" might be doing today and focus on what "I'm" going to do today. I'm going to take my kids shopping and finish up for the holidays, my family is visiting next week so I'll have them to fill my time and my mind as well. I may even turn my cell phone off so if my MM calls, he'll have to wait for me for a change. Of course I'll likely think that is to drastic when the time comes, but after reading your note I'm feeling bold at the moment.

I do believe he will call me eventually, just as he has before when I thought the end had come. Although this time I think it is different, I still think he'll call so we can maybe acknowledge the fact together that for now, this is the way it is. Maybe we can communicate to eachother that we do love one another and maybe we will be together....some day. I think my heart would be so much calmer if I could just know, in my heart, that he does love me then the day by day would be so much easire.

As for you, I know these next 8 days for you will be difficult with the anticipation of a new location and the saddness of leaving your MM. What you will be taking with you when you go is his love for you, you know he does love you. I'm sure he is so terribly sad that you are leaving for an undetermined amount of time, and it must terrify him that with you not seeing him on a regular basis, there is a possibility that you will find love again. That is a real possibility. All that is certainly why he may be seeming a bit distant now, like you said, as a man he is trying to seperate from the emotional feelings. This change for you will be wonderful, and in the future if fait means to bring you back with your MM, then it is meant to be. There is no denying you both have a beautiful love and respect for one another, nothing, not time, space or fait can ever change that.

Be happy planning your new adventure, carry his love with you forever and be open to what the future holds for you. You are a beautiful and amazing woman, what lies ahead of you will be very bright. I hope in Italy you will be able to continue on this site, I want to hear all about what is going on.

Much love to you!
Corinne
XOXO

my dear STN,

you are angry, that is good... shout scream, get it out of your system, best shout at your MM, he needs to hear it. then look at your anger, and understand it, to remove it you need to deal with it, i have been through this again and again... yes these men do not think like women. my last day with MM was spent running business errands. and at the end of the day when i broke down and told him, why did we do all this, it was our last day together could we not spend it together quitely?... he said, but it was not even for myself, someone asked me this and that... exactly, those obligations seemed more inportant. they do not realise that thigs will never be the same, sadly we suffer with the dim wits. anyway he said sorry, cried... but then time gone is gone... cant turn it back. so my dear sweetheart i understand.
Oh! a very merry christmas, its been a painful one but lets promise yourselves a better one next year. i miss home, mom, her goodies, the tree... have not had the heart to even put up lights this year... first time in my life. all because of a man who does not know what he wants? i tell myself, love or no love, one cant be depressed over a childs tantrum... so get up girl, and get on with living, and finding meaning and happiness to your life.
i know its not easy, i have not been able to write all these days, just plain sadness, cant read for my lectures... etc but i push myself.
what helps is to tell yourself and him, that you forgive them for being so weak. dont ask me how but it helps, if you find it in yourself.
as to you observation about relationship with my father, yes it fis the bill. he was always busy, had an affair, mom never forgot or forgave, he never tried hard, they just fought and existed, under the excuse that it was for me. god knows it only made it worse for me. i saw that pattern with my ex-husband, they were similar. ans when i could not work it out, i got a divorce, but with MM, he called me everyday for the past two years, and there only 10 days which we did not speak, out of which a week is now. so i got enough attention from my MM. if not presence. he is very honest, and very communicative.

too tiered to write anymore... take care, hold on, it will get better

dali

STN
I'm sorry, I saw this post after I sent off my long letter a moment ago. You are so angry and I hate to see you this way, I hate to imagine you are feeling the same feeling of loss, anger, pain and frustration as I am. Why do we love these men?

Of course I will remind you of your anger if you should slump into depression, and I think your idea of Paris and a beautiful outfit is fantastic, can you really do that. I wish I could do it with you! The best I can do here is stand on a bridge over the river. "Bridge over troubled waters" isn't that ironic, I couldn't do that, I'm afraid I'd jump. Anyway, be good to yourself. Yes he is being a damned selfish bastard and doesn't deserve the love you have for him. I do believe he is hurting but just isn't showing it in typical man form. Remember you are beautiful, remember you have a bright future, remember you too light up a room just by walking into it, even if you can't make eye contact, the light is undenyable.

I agree with you in telling anyone seeing these posts who are thinking of getting involved with a MM, DON'T DO IT. It simply isn't worth it, all this heartache, the unknown and constant questions, the guilt, the lonliness, love yourself and find someone who can love you back.

STN, hang in there! I'm here for you.

Much love,
Corinne

Hello Dali,
I'm sorry to hear you had a sad Christmas. My thoughts too were of my MM, who was at home, thinking of her no doubt. If you've seen my previous posts you know she left him (temporarily I believe) and the few times he's talked to me, I do believe he's miserable she's gone rather than miserable I'm not there. She's been gone almost 4 weeks and I think what she's doing is playing him, to make him relize he needs her and what better time to hurt him then during Christmas. She made him spend Christmas alone (well he was with his kids), trying to hurt him the most. Unfortunately I think its working. I tried to convince him to at least get a Christmas tree, when I last spoke to him on Saturday he said he was headed out to get one, then when I talked to him today he said he couldn't bring himself to do it. Couldn't bring himself to do it, so what she's doing is working. He has a shirt of mine and he told me he wore it all Christmas day when he was with his kids, made me closer to him. I don't think it is me he wants closer to him.

Anyway, I'm sraying off why I'm writing, I'm sorry your Christmas was lonely. I too thought constantly of him and what he was doing, if he was with her or not. I was lost but tried very hard to make it great for my girls. I think I did an ok job.

Hold on Dali, you'll find happiness, we all will. Have a Happy New Year and keep us posted on how you are doing. Even if you are sad, write it down, it helps, you have all helped, and I'd love to help you as you've helped me.

Much love!
Corinne

I came across this discussion as I was searching for books or articles on the psychology of being the "other woman".

When I was a young woman, I never imagined myself being someone's girl-on-the-side. Actually, I was very judgmental about women who allowed themselves to do that. Twenty years later, I became one of those women I judged and now find myself struggling with finally ending this pattern. For several years, I have been the other woman to three men - one married and the other two co-habitating with their girlfriends who knew nothing of me.

None of these partnered men I've been with made any real moves to leave their primary relationships for me. If I had even heard an inkling of an argument with their women or a hint of some dissatisfaction with their relationships, I deluded myself into thinking that those were the beginnings of some movement toward me becoming "the one", the primary, the real girlfriend or even wife. But in reality, none of these men were making attempts to embrace me as the one.

So here I am, the day after christmas, just in the wake of telling this man that I have grown weary of being #2. In our heated telephone argument this afternoon, he made it clear and I finally understood that he does not feel for me what he feels for his girlfriend. Believe me, this was a process a couple years in the making. It really set in to my psyche that he is not in love with me and that I've been a diversion from his boredom and loneliness when his woman is away on business.

It's extremely painful but I am just dog tired of the sneaking around, waiting for phone calls, listening to voice mail messages apologizing for not coming by as planned because he got "caught up with wifey and that whole situation", not spending holidays with him, not being a part of his family or him a part of mine, being kept a secret like I was something so abhorrent and shameful that I needed to be hidden.

I'm too precious of a human being for all that...and so are all of you on this discussion board.

It's really difficult and it's a process but if you are willing and you're ready to step away from him and move on, you'll just do it.

Best wishes to you all and I hope 2007 is your year!

That is what I need to do, JUST DO IT and step away. But how do I overcome the unbearable saddness of never speaking to him again.

It is very clear to me, my MM is miserable after enduring the 4 weeks that it has been since the wifey left him. It is also so clear to me that she is playing him (like a fool), trying to proove to him he's miserable without her, trying to hurt him when it hurt the most, during the holidays. It's working, I can hear it in his voice, and he still doesn't want me to call showing my number on the ID, god forbid he should have an adult conversation with someone more than 500 miles away and she find out about it. If he wants to be with a woman who won't support him in his ambitions, who won't satisfy him sexually (no sex in almost 2 years because it's "sinful"), and a woman who'll look at his naked body and tell him he's disgusting, then there is nothing I can do about that.

The problem is what can I do about the constant breathtaking pain followed by the immediate swell of tears in my eyes whenever I think on him not being a part of my life then, whenever I try to accept the fact that it isn't me he loves or cares about. It is unbearable this pain. I love this man so deeply and dearly, I want to dream with him, I want to satisy him sexually, I think he is beautiful. So what's wrong with me?

Hi Ladies,
I have time for just a quick note right now and (as you might be able to guess, I'll write more later:). Mainly I wanted to say that in the end, the thought that helps A LOT, is that we deserve better, we do. If we keep settling for these MM who treat us like nothing when we need them the most, we are only working against ourselves. When I somehow get to that place inside my head and heart where I know down deep that I deserve more respect than he gives me, I become a more compelling person. And my MM is always shocked when he sees me when I'm in this state. He's used to me settling for nothing. It's so great when you let them know that you have limits, that you're not their doormat. It changes the whole dynamic for the better. And not contacting them, well, it works like MAGIC. If I don't make myself available all the time, my MM suddenly starts looking for me. I think it's awesome that your MM (Corinne) had to call you 4 times and got nothing, it can only help. I'll write more later tonight, and unlike these married men, I'll be here for you ladies if there's anything I can do.
Lots of Love,
STN

Hello Ladies,
I'll be leaving work soon and will be off with my visiting family for the rest of the week.

I want you all to know how grateful I am for your advise and understanding, and mostly just for listening to my babble. Thank you for allowing me to release this 20 year old painful secret without harshly judging me.

STN, have a safe and happy move, I will be thinking about you. Enjoy your new flat and please let us know as soon as you can how things are going. I'm anxious to know how your MM handles seeing you go. If he doesn't show it on the outside, you must know it's killing him on the inside. Remember to treasure the happy times and if fait wants it, you'll be together again.

Dali, hang in there, it will get better. Hold on to the love and happy times.

Jamie, you give us all hope that some day there will be a brighter side. I do hope your holidays with the children were beautiful and your love continues flurishing.

Allison and Danielle, thank you for all your kind words, I do hope things are going well for you.

As for me, I'm desperately in love with my MM but am again trying to remind myself "it is the way it is supposed to be". He said he loves me, maybe in some way he does, but it is HER he wants back. It is better I discovered that now rather than moved there and discovered it then.. I suppose. It cuts like a knife so deeply in my heart I'm waiting for healing.

2007 is a new year and I pray it brings all you ladies and myself happiness and serenity.

Happy New Year!
Much Love
Corinne
XOXO

Hello Corinne and STN,

thank you for your support, been sick for two days, just finished my crying session... it feels better now. its so hard to let go! but it is happening little by little. i no longer wait for his call. life is difficult, but my own.
i have made a lot of sketches, and plan to paint this one week of holiday... it always makes me come alive. wish i could show you my work, you would all relate to it.

STN good luck, enjoy Paris... forget the money part, sometimes its good to let go and just spend if it makes you feel better. do keep in touch, you are a good friend.

Corinne you are making ground :-). Great. keep believing in yourself.
Cheers to a new year and a new beautiful life
take care

dali

To the woman who wrote in about being the OW to 3 men...my heart goes out to you. I don't know what makes men try to get away with treating us this way and I don't know what makes us accept such a sad place in life for ourselves. I also used to judge OW harshly, I never had any ideas about them other than that they were home-wreckers and tramps...and look at me now...the OW for about a year and half and agonizing about letting go, even when I know that he cannot give me even 10% of the committment and attention I deserve. I too am just someone my MM loves to turn to when he can't handle his normal life. But where is he when I can't handle my normal life? With his wife. When I fell for him, I seem to have lost my wits.
I wonder if you would mind sharing what you learn about what might make us OW behave the way we do (since you said you've been searching the web for information about this topic); I am also trying to learn as much as I can, so that I don't repeat my mistakes and bad patterns for the rest of my life. It seems to be a pattern for me to fall in love with men I can't have for one reason or another. That's all I've figured out so far. I don't yet know how to break the pattern. In any case, I'm glad that all of us on this website are waking up to the fact that we deserve better than what these MM are willing to offer us. I think this is the first and most essential step towards a better life. I'm wishing you all the best as you start to figure your way out of your difficult situation.
STN

Dear Dali,

Thanks for your encouragment about my spending spree in Paris. I can't believe I'm going to do it! I've got my hotel booked and I (maybe I already said this) have big plans to do nothing stressful whatsoever while I'm there. I can only hope the hotel room isn't noisy, cold or somehow problematic. If I can at least retreat to the room whenever I feel stress coming on, that will be a blessing. I think it's going to be freeeeeezing there, and that's fine with me. Maybe it will shock my system, which I need. I mean I feel like I need to snap out of it after being under some kind of spell. I need to wake up and remember who I really am - I'm not the person I've been all year, I'm sure that's just some sad version of me and I don't like being that version of myself very much. I have a feeling coming over me these days, the feeling is that I'm going to be a much better, wiser, stronger, braver and compassionate person because of this situation I've had. In fact, I already had to be all of these things just to get through my time here, being these things is the only thing that stopped me from giving into hatred, self-pity, delusion and defeatism. Anyway, I feel a better version of myself is being born slowly out of the ashes of this emotional and psychological trauma. I hope one day we'll all look back on these days as the beginning of something good for ourselves.
As for your painting and sketches, I do wish I could see them. I'm so glad you have something you can do that makes you feel alive. I'm sorry to say that my activities in paris aren't going to be so noble as painting, I plan to eat lots of french bread and cheese, drink lots of french wine, smoke lots of french cigarettes (I actually hate smoke, but i'll be forced to smoke everyone else's cigarettes in the cafes!), and shop for french perfume and clothes. i might hit some museums, i love art, but it can make me emotional if it's good and i'm not sure i need any more emotions getting stirred around in me. i'll probably read a couple of good novels (no romance novels, that's for sure!).
i have to admit that i'm scared. i'm scared of how alone i'm going to feel out there on my own, with my MM so far away and no real hope of seeing him again any time soon. i'm really scared suddenly. but since we've ended things on as good of terms as possible, i can at least go on without the added 'baggage' of hatred, bitterness and anger. that's something.
in these difficult days i hope you'll find ways to suffer through the necessary pain, but find ways to make it not so bad. painting does sound like a good idea. it's also a good sign that you no longer wait for his calls. do you wonder constantly what he's thinking, feeling? i do about my MM - even if it obviously does no good. it's going to take a lot of time and space for me to think about things without him being at the center of all my thoughts. pain...that's what it boils down to when i remember that i'm trying to forget the one i love. it's still such a shock to me that love isn't enough to create a space for us to be together in this life. i suppose i'll have to keep teaching myself that lesson again and again until it really sticks.
it's late here and i think i'll go to bed...must be a bit later where you are. i hope you'll face the new day with as much courage and strength as you've had so far. i feel like you're on the right track for yourself and now it's just a matter of time passing, and your thoughts and feelings settling down and being integrated with your new situation - you'll feel better, brighter days will come again, they will, i promise things can't stay this way forever. but i suppose you already know that, i just wanted to reinforce the thought in case it helps.
lots of love,
STN

Dear Corinne,
Instead of going to bed as I said in my note to Dali, I read this message of yours again. You asked what is wrong with you, what you can do about the horrible pain you feel when you think of separating from your MM. I really do think you're suffering something similar to what addicts go through when they can't have their drugs of choice - for us, love is the drug and every cell in our bodies ends up wanting more and more of it when we end up in an addictive/dependent relationship. Our feelings (including love) are bascially chemicals that our bodies produce and we can actually get addicted to certain types of them (at least according to some things I've read). The pain is unbearable because your body thinks it needs more'love' from your MM, and you're cutting back. I suppose not everyone believes this, but at least it works as a kind of analogy (you could basically say that you're going through an emotional withdrawl and it's going to take a lot of pain and time to get through, to clear out this need from your system). You may end up taking three steps forward, ten steps back, 2 steps forward, etc etc for a while until you're strong enough to make a big leap forward. Part of you already wishes you could just make the break, stop the dependency you have on this man, and that part of you will get stronger over time if you just keep feeding it. I'm not sure if that kind of thinking helps anyone on this site, I just know that it helped me to see things that way. I also needed some kind of explanation for the power that my feelings had over me. I'd never experienced feelings so strong, love so completely passionate, pain so utterly debilitating and overwhelming, until I fell in love with my MM. I'd never had such a difficult time in my life leaving a bad situation behind me. The idea of addiction helped me understand some of the neediness and desperation I've been feeling.
Well, I guess that's it for me tonight, I should have gone to sleep ages ago, but somehow I'm not in the mood.
Take good care Corinne, I'll be here waiting to see how things go for you over the next few days (I'll try to check in from Paris).
Lots of love, xoxo, STN

erm... it seems a little selfish to do so when so many people round here seem to be having a bad time just right now... but i was wondering -there's a man i liked for along time - probably toward the point of infatuation. he seemed so gentle, kind, strong, warm etc. he is married with a large family.

A year ago I found out he was having an affair with a girl I know. It really touched me deeply, for reasons i'll never quite understand. i don't know what part of it is nosiness, jealousy, maybe even love, because my feelings are too strong for me to recognise. he seems to be perfectly happy with his wife, but i also know from mutual friends that this girl says he's in love with her.

have spoken about it with friends. i basically figure I am better off out of it as it may all end in tears for everyone. but somehow i feel envious of the girl sometimes. can you guys relate to that?

btw -the question, i mean.

xx

Well I enjoyed all of the uplifting letters. I am new to this forum and I have had a horrible year with my MM. You see, we met at work several years ago, and he married his high school sweetheart. He says after about seven years, he has been married since 96, he strayed. Then we met I never even looked his way, he wasn't my type, but then we got to talking and we just hit it off. We have such strong passion and it just could not be denied. Well, we had an ongoing affair off and on for about 2 years. Then we broke up his wife was expecting their second child ( two daughters they have) then it all happened. We started our affair again in early 2004 his wife found out about us on 3 seperate times, and we would break up and he kept coming back to me again. Finally, she threw him out and started divorce procedings. Then we moved in to a beautiful apartment I furnished it all myself. The two years we lived together was interesting. The first was actually wonderful, still his kids never came to visit she would not allow it. Then the second year came, awful. I broke my ankle before Christmas last year he never helped me with anything, I could not move. My parents had to come over and do the shopping, etc... for 2 months. I should have known he was useless, he missed his kids and home he did not like living in an apartment. It went downhill. We continued to live together he would come home later, not call me for days.Finally he moved out in May. I took a couple days off of work to sort things out because working together is hard.He called me out of the blue a couple of days later, I informed him I was moving from the apartment we shared to a really cute 1bedroom w/loft. He kept saying he missed me and he just needs time to sort things out.Well, he helped me move all of my things to my new apartment and I took him back. So from May to now, he has been living with his wife and kids, saying he was staying in the basement and kept promising me that is was coming back to me. Was I an idiot or what. Finally, he said he was coming back in March, he has things to take care of while he is living there.

terrible painful day, losing my fight today... desparate to hear his voice
wrote this...

can the sun be too late to rise?
can the dawn never reach the horizon,
can the sea never reach the ocean?
can rain never touch the earth, who yearns for it so much
can the silence overcome the music
can the song be lost in tears and rain?
can the mind lose you in my memory
can the truth be a comforting instead of pain
can this be anything else than tears and pain
can this be anything else?
can this be anything?
can this be?
can i face the truth that i will never be with you?

dali

Hi,
My guess is that you do have some feelings for this man, romantic ones on some level...and of course I can relate to that for sure. But please, don't let these feelings develop, even if something romantic ever happened between the two of you, it would definitely be accompanied by mountains of pain, frustration and all sorts of horrid traumas that may be difficult to imagine from where you sit now. If you have to love him, just do it from a safe distance because if you begin to invest any of yourself in this situation, you'll have gone too far, but you may not see that at first (many of us didn't see the pain coming before it hit us like a mac truck) - once you realize you've gone too far, it will be too late, and you'll just suffer like you wouldn't believe to get yourself out of the situation. Please be careful for your own sake, keep those feelings from developing before it's too late -if you turn away now, you may never know it, but you'll have saved yourself more heartache than you can imagine.
xoxo, STN

Hi everyone,
I thought I'd write a message before leaving. My plane doesn't leave for several more hours and I'm just sitting here by myself after having said goodbye to my MM. I took some time to read through old messages on the board here and it occurred to me that eventually almost all of us end up realizing what Danielle Jordan did...even though we take different paths to get there. I suppose we take in of reality what we can, little by little accepting the facts that even if these MM might love us, we are really in their lives because they need someone to stroke their egos, they are weak men who need to keep us hanging on to feel good about themselves, to put light into their lives when they feel dissatisfied with their day-to-day situation. I know my MM loves me, but at the end of the day, he doesn't let me go when he knows he should because he needs me to tell him that I love him. I make him feel attractive and alive. He gets plenty of female attention, but for whatever reason, he values mine more. I guess that reason is love, and then on top of that there's a neediness in him to reclaim his fading youth. He tries to accept that I need to be with a man who can treat me better and offer me more than he does, he really has tried (and this, as much as it hurts, tells me he actually does love me, or he wouldn't care at all about my future - he didn't used to, it's something he's grown into). But he can't quite accept it yet, that I have to go on, so we just agreed that I would tell him that he can go his own way when I've found someone else and until then, I am still someone he wants to keep loving...and in his stronger moments, he's even said that when I do find someone, I should first just lie to him about it if I think he's not ready to hear about it, and if I think he's ready to hear it, I should still come to him when I'm feeling sad about life so that we can feel a bit better from just a hug or a kiss on the cheek or just sitting together and talking.
This is sweet, but it's so sad that this is what a great love can boil down to in this life. I should be glad that we at least found love, I should be glad, but my heart is so broken too. I can't blame him for his weakness, I've been weak too. I suppose the most likely outcome is that the emotional part of this affair will fade over time and we'll have entirely separate lives at some point. But I still may have to come back here next year, so there's no telling what that will end up being like.

Dali, I think I know what you mean and feel when you ask whether the dawn can never reach the horizon. That's really beautiful and I feel it too (if what you're getting at is that you just can't believe that something so sublime as your love and relationship with your MM cannot find a place in this world, cannot ever become what everything in your heart and soul is telling you it should become). I often asked myself that question - how can this be, how can he let it go, how can i let it go, and for what are we letting it all go, a bad situation he's made for himself, a bad political situation created by self-serving governments that care next to nothing about human rights?! Part of the reason I can't be his second wife has to do with the political situation here, there's no chance for me to become a part of his society legally...even through marriage. But in the end, I think that his situation at home can't be so bad, it's just that I hear mostly about the bad parts. In the end, I feel that I don't even want to consider these questions anymore, it hurts too much and it doesn't help me. I tell myself that this is my life. I have my possibilities before me, I can create more of them in time, but I cannot change this situation with my MM. And I have to say that no matter how empty or false it sounds, I really have no desire to hurt his wife, to replace her even, to out-do her -I like her and think she deserves happiness he brings her; I just regret that, as illogical as it sounds, he couldn't be mine too. I know that's unrealistic, but it's how I feel...I guess it's a leftover from my dreamworld that I was living in. I can see now how absolutely blind I was being to the realities and I'm really shocked and amazed at myself for it.

I wish I could send some reinforcements for your fight today Dali. I thought about suggesting that you just think constantly about what you're glad you have in this life - but in the end, maybe it's better just to remind you that tomorrow is another day, and most likely you'll feel something a bit different and hopefully a bit better. Keep your heart open, it somehow makes it lighter - no one knows the future and yours will be brighter still...you just need time for healing. Tell yourself 'okay, this hurts for now, but we'll see how things are after a while.'

And Corinne, I hope your time with family is proving to be a good distraction from the sadness and instability. I wish you could meet me in Paris, wouldn't we have a great time?! I sometimes wonder what it would be like to meet all of you ladies, I wonder if we'd talk like old friends from the first second or if we'd suddenly lose our nerves to spill out our souls when we're face to face. I imagine that the first is true, that we'd talk like old friends from the start.
Danielle and Samantha, wherever you are right now, I hope you're ending this year in a happy way. When I look back on our old postings here from the spring and summer, it's clear to me that you both have some happiness due to you for what you were able to overcome.

I hope we'll all see brighter days in 2007. Thank you for your kindness.
xoxo, STN

Hello Ladies,

Well I hope you all had a great holiday. I know how tough it must of been for all of you out there, (myself included) so hopefully you all came up on top. I havent been on in a few but its nice to know that I have people on here that care about my situation, and for that I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart! <3

My christmas went good I guess..lol My M.M surprised me with a beautiful bracelet. I was hoping that it would be a ring..but hey..I can wait for that! The ex has been driving me crazy. Uggghhh! She just wont quit, its quite pathetic, but he's really starting to see the "WACK JOB" that she's been revealing lately. If I was her, I would consider playing nice :)..I think she's seriously bipolar and needs to be sedated! Haha!

I just hope that 2007 is a better year for all of us. I feel like it will be, we're all due!!! I havent had the opportunity to read any of the posts that Ive missed, but I will tomorrow morning, Im just very tired right now and need some sleep! I'll talk to you all tomorrow!

xoxoxo
Jamie

it is sad to read these stories. they are accounts of grief... and i didn't want to come here and say something platitudinous. but supposed wisdom is one thing... actually knowing what it feels like to gain experience which strengthens and develops you is another, and you guys are in the latter category. taking the decision to get involved with these men has come with tough consequences. taking the decision to be strong and search for better relationships has enabled you to start becoming who you were meant to be.

that's my two cents.

dear all,

STN you have written a beautiful message for all of us thank you so much. it is so soft and yet so deep. i dont know what you do, but you can be a very good healer. enjoy paris and italy...

corinne i hope you have found some relief, in being with you family.

Thank you all the sensitive, beautiful women here who have helped bear this pain. its a blessing to have found this site, otherwise in the loneliness and confusion i would have gone insane. It teaches us just by listening to each other.
my prayers are for all of us, for a warm comfortable year ahead...
love to all the friends i found here

dali

Happy New Year Jamie and everyone. WOW what an amazing story! I can totally relate to everything you wrote it's almost like looking into the mirror it's so similar. The main difference is your MM admitted that he will leave her for you.

I am so afraid to ask this of him, I mean he should know right ? Right now things are going to well that I feel numb..is this possible ? I just don't know if he will leave her.

The friday before christmas we were out for lunch and I had alot to drink as did he. Before I was leaving for christmas holidays he told me how much he loves me, like no other and how everytime I am not around he thinks of me and misses me just as I do. He told me to believe in him..then I said, how can I believe in you when in the summertime you had told me that you can't end your marriage when your wife hasn't done anything wrong....

Then he said, well things have changed now. I want to be with you, I love you and as long as you love me there is no risk, nothing to lose. What do I gain, I said me...he says that's right and that's enough. So I left things at that point, I really didn't know what to say as tears were in my eyes with happiness.

The only thing he said and has repeated, is that he is worried I would get bored....9 years age thing ?

As for your man, he sounds like he is very content and deeply in love with you.
I am unsure why a ring would make you happy, do hope to marry him ?
Enjoy your passion, he is going through alot of emotions, he won't go back to her, if he is anything like my MM. I don't think he is the type to go back on his word, when they make a decision, it's done for the good or the bad.
There may be alot of "what if's" but in the end they know they would be miserable without us.

Love Allison.

Hi Allison

Hope you had a great holiday with your M.M! It sounds like you two are on pace for a beautiful relationship together. My M.M thought the same about our age difference as well. I just think it's their small insecurites about being with someone younger, and wondering if we are going to feel the same about them in the future. I love him for who he is, and emphasize this to him. I like to joke alot too so I'll say something like: "Oh dear when your 70, I'll wipe your ass for you!" Laughter is definately the key to my relationship! :)

I remember when we were in our dating stage. Technically we still are dating, but it is much different in my case. We live together so it seems more real. Im the type of person where I need validation. If you read my letter to STN about father's you'll understand why. My father left us when I was young. Unfortunately, I need that reassurance that my M.M isn't going to leave me either.

If your M.M is telling you that he wants to be with you, and he loves you..he will. When you reach this point, you'll understand what I mean with validation. Your feelings are going to feel so different, you'll be fantasizing about being in an open-relationship with him, living with him, spending the rest of your life with this man. I think that you may already be at this stage because of your relationship being so open with him!

I didnt come out and say "LEAVE YOUR WIFE DAMMIT AND BE WITH ME". (Although deep down that's how I felt) I would say things on the line of: "Wouldn't it be great to do this all the time?" I would hint constantly, and believe me, men are no dummies. Don't be afraid to tell these men ladies that you want them. It's all in how you say it.

Getting to your situation over the summer. It's like deja-vu to me. My M.M said similar things like yours did. His excuses were his children, how the hell do you overcome that topic. Children always come #1, and I didn't know what to say. I would ask him, "Why would you continue a marriage to a woman that you don't love anymore?" And he would respond: "If we didn't have kids, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.".. You see my M.M openly said that he wasn't in love with her anymore. He's the type of man where he said what he meant..even if it hurt me.

Allison if I were you, you need to ask him this. He's already said that there is no risk. Why risk losing the woman you love (YOU)? Also for your personal development, I think its crutial you ask him. Do you really want to know? I know I did, I couldn't take the wondering all the time. You need to find your own way/words. Don't be nervous because in the end, their marriage will end, trust me. I was on this website and it discussed how 83% of marriages that have extra-marital affairs, divorce. The question is hun, how long can you wait?

I wish you all the happiness in the world, and hope that you have the strength and courage to do this. It's very scary, but you will get through this!!

P.S. Let me know! :)

xoxoxo
Jamie

Hi Jamie

This is so refreshing to speak to you, you have no idea.!! Thank you so much for your advice.

To answer your question, a few weeks back, I was struggling with what your saying about us being together for real. The main problem with me is that I have such a difficult time expressing my feelings with him, he knows this and always wants me to tell him how I am feeling. Anyhow..that day I came out and said that I am afraid that one day "the spark" would come back into his marriage and that I need to know now what he is feeling about me and us.
He said again - that she doesn't love him anymore and they just co-exist as 2 incomes to support the kids. I said and what about you..is there a chance for you to rekindle, he said no, it's too far gone and I have strong feelings for you. Then he asked me, are you asking me for a committment...? I wanted to say yes..but I froze. I ended up saying I just want to know where your head is at, he says you are entitled to know that, l love you. But he never gave me the answer that I think I wanted.

Last night, we hooked up for a bit since I hadn't seen him before new years eve.
We were talking about the previous friday where we had the drinks and he said all that mushy stuff to me..which as I thought, he doesn't recall the half of it..he does call that he was being all emotional with me knowing he wasn't going to see me for 5 days, he remembers (he said this) how beautiful I looked and how romantic he felt. As usual I turtled...thye only thing I did say to him was - you don't seem like the type of person that would say something you didn't mean..I guess I will have to wait and see if you say it again.

Does this seem familar to you ? One minute you feel it is real and we will be together and the next it was just the heat of the moment.

Hello everyone, Happy 2007!

STN, I know you aren't on line yet but I've been thinking of you and hope your move went well. Paris must have been beautiful at New Years Eve! I know you were nervous and scared but I can't help but feel this is all going to be wonderful for you. You go girl!

Dali, I hope you are feeling better and things are looking up. I've been praying that your heart has found a chance to smile.

Jamie, I'm so glad to hear about your Christmas and how lovely it was with YOUR MAN, you can't really call him your MM anymore, it is so obvious how he loves you, chose you, so for you he is YM, good for you! Don't worry too much about the X, she'll move on in time. He loves you and it sounds like a beautiful relationship, I'm so happy for you. I hope the love continues to grow in the new year.

I had a nice time visiting with my family for a few days. My MM called me often the day before New Years Eve, but then I didn't hear from him again until yesterday. Just like the Christmas weekend. I think I've discovered he's lying to me. I do believe his wife has moved back in, it would explain why he can't call me in the evening anymore and after all, he hid the fact that he was even married from me for 3 years, why would he not hide her moving back if he thought it would keep us going, whatever "us" is. His conversations are still mostly sexual at this point and honeslty I'm a little tired of it. I'm so much more than that, I love him so much more than just that but I don't think he feels the same for me. He loves the idea of f**king me. Its all so sad for me to come to this realization but it is just becoming so much more clear to me. Maybe he does love me in his own sexual way, but it isn't enough. He said some sweet things yesterday like how wonderful I made him feel when we were together so many years ago, and he said "I'm so in love with you" and "I love you very much", but those words were all surrounded by sex, sometimes odd sex ideas too like watching me with another man. Why would someone want to watch the woman they supposedly love have sex with another man. Our conversations never were about that until recently, but now it's just getting sick.

Unfortunately I still love the bastard. Why I don't know, honestly, I really don't know. What I do know is it hurts so deeply because now he just makes me feel like a little slut, especially since I think she's back and he's lying about it. I've only been with 2 men my whole life (he being one of them), that hardly constitutes a slut but that is how he makes me feel. I shouldn't love him, he's very bad for me I know. I wish I had the courage to actually tell him that's it, I'm done but the second I hear his voice I become an anxious teenager desperate to keep her man any way she can. I'm pathetic and feel quite miserable at the moment. I'm sorry I ever called him and started talking to him again last spring, it was a huge mistake.

It is a new year and I'll be busy again soon with my kids activities so that should keep my mind elsewhere for a good while. We'll see. I know I need to let go of this man, I just can't seem to do it.

I hope you all had a safe and happy New Year. I'm so glad to have you all as a part of my life. I love you all!

Corinne
XOXO

sorry but i think you need to work really hard at putting something in place of him in your life. you know if you're in physically restricted environment for long enough, someone can eventually let the door open. the biologival tendency will be not to go through it, because you have become so used to what you know.

this guy's treatment of you is demeaning, dishonest and degrading. only 7% of communication is physical. what have you communicated to him by failing to face up to the horrible disappointment he stored for you (his fault) by lying to you about his marital status and leave him? or when you let him lie to you about his wife's return? or when you failed to give him the answer he needed to hear when he asked you, after all the time you've been loyal to him, to act out a porn display with another man?

he already has the message that it's ok to treat you badly. how much will that be reinforced if you waste any more of your precious time waiting for him? users don't change - they just take your compliance as a green light to take further advantage.

Sorry. :(

Hi Allison

It's so wild that our stories are virtually the same! In reference to the "spark"..I personally think when it's gone...ITS GONE. Alot of people will try to rekindle it, but the feelings will never be the same. It's like trying to get back with an ex-bf thinking that he's changed..ya right! Your M.M knows this deep down, hes just afraid to make a move, just like my M.M was. It's all about comfortability. Even if that comfortability is disfunctional...it seems normal. Strange huh?

I've listened to all the excuses..I swear..your sure our M.M's arent the same guy? LOL! I asked him this very important question: "If your only in it for income purposes/sake of children..why couldn't you ever leave?" "Doesn't that seem silly and most of all a waste of time?"..He said I was right. I told him he can still be a great father, and someday your kids will grow up and understand that mommy and daddy just didnt work out. He had his guilt episodes and thought they would hate him if he left. What these men don't understand is for those of them that are not happy, they can still resume necessary responsibilities and obligations to their children. They correlate all of these fears into one and feel trapped. These men need to live, and if that means it's with an OW..then so be it.

When he asked you if you were looking for a committment, were you afraid to answer, or afraid of the answer you were going to get? At first when I was down that road I was very afraid of the answer. So I avoided it. But your going to get to a point where you need that answer and you don't care what it may be. I do believe in patience. I know its difficult, just don't wait too long.

I remember when he would never make a move/talk about moving forward with me. I dated other men. Noone compared to him. I never told him this, but I wanted to see if it pissed him off. He told me that he thought it was selfish of him to get upset since he was married, so he gave me the "go" to date other men. I didnt want to, I wanted him! I was thinking to myself, (if he's thinking like this, then he doesn't care or want to be with me.) (If he cared and loved me, he couldn't swallow the fact that I was dating other men.) Then one day he got really pissed at me and jealous. It felt good because for once he knew what it felt like.

We had our conversations, and we both knew that we loved each other. In my case, this happened fast. You have a great relationship with your M.M. He tells you he loves you all time, he's clearly said he wants out, hes very romantic with you (RING).. its his obligations that are keeping him from that decision. If I was you, call his bluff. See how serious he really is. Talk more on the fact that you understand his obligations and he doesnt need to feel trapped in them. Girl, tell him he needs to move on and be happy. If that means with you..thats great..or alone thats great too. He will respect the fact that you are looking out for his best interest! Trust me!!!

Talk to you soon sweety!:)

xoxoxo
Jamie

Greetings from Paris Ladies!

I only have a second to write, I wish i had more, but this internet cafe is so full of smoke i think i'm going to suffocate. Things are okay. I don't miss him. In fact, I'm so overwhelmed with anger about the time I lost, the way I let him treat me, the way I always went back for more because the thought of breaking away was just too painful. I'm angry at myself, not him, I wish I had not fallen into my addiction to his attentions...I was so vulnerable, so lonely, so dissatisfied with life until he came along full of compliments, attention, affection, attachment. God knows I love him, he loved me, but I allowed him to make our situation unbearable for me, for the sake of keeping the peace because I was literally trapped into seeing him each day. He'll never understand how he hurt me...but I understood it, and I only wish I had been able to gain enough distance from the situation sooner so that I could have really overcome it better and faster than I did. I know I did the best I could in that environment, but now that I'm out, I feel soooooooooo deeply angry, so disgusted with all of it. I hope I can let this anger go soon, it's not what I want to feel, but I suppose I have to let it run its course. I'm glad I'm able to do it in private. But God am I filled with rage. In the end I think I'll still look back on him and say he was wonderful in so many ways - but not in certain ways that I needed him to be. Letting yourself always come last in the life of the person you love the most...well, that's just a recipe for self-destruction. And believe me, as happy as I am to be free, I'm still carrying the weight of that problem with me. It could be PMS talking, but God almighty I am angry and hurt. Letting someone take you for granted, continuing to give yourself to someone who doesn't appreciate it enough or reciprocate it...those are just ways of hurting yourself in the end. I want to cry because I can't believe I did that to myself for so long...all for some scraps of attention he might throw my way whenever he felt like it. Excuse my language, but fuck that, seriously, I was spellbound for a while, but now I'm not. It's not easy to walk away into a life of pure loneliness as I've done, that comes with its own kind of pain for sure, but I'm trying to look at it as a recovery period until I can remember the good and the bad of it all. Right now I just see the bad, and God was it bad. and it's my fault, i can't even blame him because at the end of the day i let myself fall blindly into that addiction. But blame doesn't really help anyone, does it? Right now my only choice is to get through each day as best I can and see if I can't build something better for my future. I'm hoping to be able to remember the good things he's been in time, because it's not fair to only cling to the anger and bad memories. I'm rambling, sorry ladies, once again I can't stop my fingers from typing when I'm all bent out of shape like I am right now. pie is right though about the fact that i gave him a green light. i did. i'm still not sure how someone like me who has always cut off bad relationships before they even got started (all during my 20s and early 30s i turned down men right and left) was able to fall into this situation. i'm perplexed, but i am hoping i'm a lot smarter now and that i won't make that mistake again, ever again. yes, in case you're wondering, i do still love him, i hope i can do that without all the anger after the tantrum i'm having is finished. thank you ladies for letting me rant. i already feel some of the edge of the anger is taken off just by writing. i wish i had something to say to each of you specifically, but you all sound like you're taking your progress one step at a time and that seems good to me. corinne, i know you're still stuck on him, but now you're awake to some very important realities and step by step you're going to find the right balance between loving/not loving your MM and maintaining your self-respect. it's all in your hands now and when you reach the right place for yourself, you'll be glad you didn't wait any longer than necessary to get there. bye for now dali, i'm anxious to hear how the new year is treating you. for me, 2007 feels like a big punch in my stomach, lots of harsh blows, but somehow, still better than all of that mess of 2006. paris is freezing, but so pretty. i love perfume and i've been shopping trying to pick just the right one. and the food......oh my goodness. i'll be as big as a barn when i leave this place, it's so delicious!
xxoo, lots of love and good wishes, STN

Hello STN,
How excited I am to see a post from you, I hadn't expected it so soon. I'm so happy you are safe and in Paris, I do hope you travels went well. I do believe this anger is your first step to freedom. It is of course hard for me to be certain since I'm not at that point yet, but I believe you are starting to see the inner more deserving beautiful you and are starting to move on. Please don't be so hard on yourself, there is no way for anyone to predict who they will fall in love with, or even why they fall in love. It happens, sometimes good and sometimes bad, but it just happens. Feel you anger, understand that it really isn't directed at one particular person but more the situation and the fact that at this time it couldn't work. You time wasn't wasted just simply used. You are young and beautiful, there is still plenty of time for to experience another love and much more happiness. You had happy, beautiful times with you MM. Keep those memories with you and when you let go of the anger and frustration, and you will let go of it, you will find peace to move on. It will happen. I'm sure life is crazy for you right now with the move and job change, hold on, it will calm down and get better, much better.

I'm trying to let go, the only problem is once I've thought "thats it, I'm moving on" he'll call me telling me how much he loves me, needs me, how beautiful I am, how he's love me so much for all these years. I'm sorry to say once he says that I melt like butter. I'm working on it though.

Enjoy Paris, it sounds lovely!
Lots of love,
Corinne
XOXO

Bon Jour Corinne!
It's so great that we can talk from Paris. I don't know how often I'll be able to write, but for now, I'm really glad to be in touch! I did a little experiment on myself. I wanted to know if my foul mood would change if I talked to my MM, so I called him. Sure enough, I was like melted butter after about 5 minutes. I was so angry at first, not talking much at all, just saying the minimum to be nice and polite, I said I was just calling to say hi and see how he was. anyway, after talking with him, i feel completely fine again, completely...that's all it took, a conversation. that scares me. i don't want him to have this power over my moods. really, i'm like dr. jeckel and mr. hyde, one minute i'm ready to strangle him and/or never speak with him again, and the next i just turn into someone who can let it all go with a kiss and smile. i'm glad to say that i got really angry at him on the phone to let him know that i didn't think how he treated me with respect to a certain pivotal issue between us was okay. he made his excuses, but it felt great to call it like i see it. i told him to imagine that i was kicking him and that no matter what he says, i'm not going to forgive him for that one thing unless he apologizes and means it. i told him i was forgiving the rest of his crap, just not that one thing - then he said, 'what crap?' i said 'you must be joking, i've never met anyone more full of crap than you.' i liked saying it, and i as able to laugh when i did it, it was heavy and light all at the same time. he laughed too.

i guess what i mean to say is that i really understand how your resolve to be done with the whole affair can just vaporize in an instant when you talk with your MM and he says all the right things, or worse, says things that make you think *HE'S* going to leave *YOU* forever. the thing is that these MM know this about us on some level...they crank up the charm when they know we're pissed and when we're trying to clear up the mess we're in. they also treat us like crap when they like, they're aware of our needs, they're aware that we'll keep hanging on to any sign of hope no matter what it costs us. they know what they're doing on some level...even if they're clueless, selfish yo-yo's in general. So keep inching away as best you can and the rest should fall into place over time (with lots of distress, drama and agony likely to crop up again and again in the meantime). if you can make a clean break, then so much the better in some ways - but i couldn't do that so i understand why you might not able to either...it's not weakness so much as it's really some kind of amazingly powerful emotional addiction. you're being strong just when you think about fighting it, so don't be hard on yourself either:)

it's clear your MM has focused all his attention on you as a kind of sex object, some 'thing' he gets off on degrading, demeaning and subjugating in certain ways. all that talk of love may be coming from a better place inside of him...it may be sincere and just overshadowed by a perverted/corrosive lust and desire to subjugate you (makes him feel powerful as a man to do it). if his claims of love are sincere even some of the time, that just means there's a chance for you to steer him in that direction again and again every time he wants to steer you into the sex-object direction. in some ways i really had to do this with my MM too. he treated me like garbage at one point. it's only when i withdrew all the sex that he started coming to his senses again. i don't know exactly what's wrong with our MM, but it often seems like yours and mine have been suffering from the same 'diseases'. but please don't dream of a future with him until/unless he gives you some concrete reasons to dream of one. you need something real from him if you're going to invest so heavily in him, otherwise he doesn't deserve your investment. you want a house of bricks, not a castle of sand. you've given him your heart, the most precious part of you, and look how he treats it. extremes of good, bad, good, bad, bad, bad, bad, good, bad, etc etc etc. that's not right. he's got to settle down and make his choice and stop swatting your emotions around like a tennis ball. if he chooses you, then he needs to give you a solid offer that doesn't involve you making all the sacrifices. but i know you already know that.
if you can find it in yourself, ask him for some proof that he's ready to commit to at least *treating* you well (no need for details) - see what he says. it will at least let him onto the fact that you're catching on to his bad behavior and that you're growing tired of it. it will tell him you have standards. just so you know, there was a time when i was violating my standards faster than i could lower them just to keep my hopes of a future with my MM alive...my MM knew it and took FULL advantage and he was doing the same things with his standards in his own way.we both seriously compromised our ethics. a limit has to be put on that before it destroys someone.

anyway, the next time he hangs up on you in the middle of a conversation or doesn't call when he says he will, you can ask him, 'is that what you call treating me well?' -there's no need for you to be understanding about why he's hanging up on you in the middle of conversations if you think of YOURSELF as a priority and not his relationship with his on-again, off-again wife. it's time for you to be treated well, one way or another, and he needs to make that happen, full stop. he'll even like himself better if he conforms to making just that one improvment. i don't mean that he needs to promise marriage to you tomorrow, i just means he just needs to treat you with the respect that any human deserves...especially one he sometimes claims to love. i bet he'll shape up if he knows he has to...he still needs you and i think he knows that, otherwise why would he keep you hanging on by a thread all this time? he needs you, so make that work to your advantage now, make it so that he can't get what he wants unless he meets a minimum standard of behavior that you feel is fair.

if you really want a harsh wakeup call and some horrible insight into your situation, try watching woody allen's latest film (i can't recall the name). if nothing else it will make it easier for you to be more careful with how much you keep investing in your MM. of course it's just a movie, and everyone's situation is different, but it makes some points that will hit home (hard!) and they will hurt you enough to shock you into a defensive mode, which you need to be in (by defensive mode i just mean that you need to be taking good care of yourself, protecting yourself first and foremost). anyway, i don't think you were ready for that film a month or so ago, but you might be now. you really seem to be making a lot of progress...the setbacks don't count, every step forward is a step in the right direction. at least that's what i believe.

Thanks for being hopeful about my future. Most of the time, these days, I don't even imagine that I'll be able to fall for someone again. I look at pics of me and my MM and we just couldn't make a better looking couple, we just look perfect together, there's something in the picture that makes everyone who sees them know that about us...even if they don't accuse us openly of the affair, it's clear they see our connection/bond. I don't imagine I'll find anyone I like enough to be with after him ...but if I do, believe me I'll do whatever i can to manage things better than I did this time. okay, i'm on vacation and i'm writing like you are too, sorry. i'm sure you have better things to do than read such long messages from me. i always write too much, but you know that by now. the thing that makes me laugh is that i think the website has deleted a bunch of my older messages from a few months ago because they were too long...i went to find them and some aren't there anymore:)! in person i'm not actually very talkative, if you can believe it - i mostly just keep to myself:)!!
xoxo and lots of love, STN

Corinne -

I've had a few men telling me they need me. Sorry to be negative again, but in my experience, it's usually done in the context of someone trying to play on your desire to nurture them, in order to get you to accept a lesser package than you're worth. To take just one example, one guy texted me out of the blue and told me how much he missed me and needed me (for sex). This is in the context of me never having asked anything of him, him not letting me anywhere near his house because it would "disturb his flatmate" (wtf?) and being unprepared to go out anywhere because public places "weren't private enough". Yet he still tried to (subtly) bully his way under my roof in order to get casual sex.

That's an extreme example, and I've no doubt things are more complicated in your case, but... dating you for three years and *then* telling you he's married? what does he "need" you for? deep down he must know it's not in you best interests to stay with him as things are, so why does he phone you and tell you the very things most likely to upset you into staying?

Hello everyone,

still feeling low, its been terrible three days, its a backward ten steps. silence...

help

dali

Walk with me

walk with me, through

this pain and loneliness

through this ugly truth

and the screaching lie

walk with me, through

the death of my dreams

through the loss of faith

and the weak love

walk with me, through

this empty life

teach me to run from

pain as other do

teach me to lie to myself

and be happy

walk with me...

there is no one here

everyone is so busy trying

to make it on their own

dali

hi dali,

i want to help, i'm not sure how. i'll just try to remind you of some things you already know well but might not be remembering just now. first, you will get better, you will. second, fight whatever is hurting you most with its opposite -if it's loneliness and despair, put all your energies into remembering times when you felt the most cared for and the most carefree, find your most cherished memories and make them work for you, live in them for a while, just for the break from the sadness that they provide. they'll make you feel stronger. third, things always change, your life is no exception, so if it's awful now, it won't be later on and you can count on that. that's something. fourth, distractions are good at almost any cost when you're feeling the way you're feeling now. just about any distraction will do - i often watched favorite films over and over again (Bleu and Rushmore helped quite a bit); fifth, try to change your body's chemistry by exercising, yoga, anything that helps (your pain is essentially biochemical). making your heart open, accepting everything just as it is, not wanting anything other than what you're already glad you have and have had, can be liberating. force yourself to leave the future up to the future, let all your worries go out of you with one big sigh. if you can find a way to the part of you that will see things that way, well, it won't end the pain, but it will make it bearable and it will make you see what a wonderful person you are no matter what your MM's situation is. tell yourself kind things about you and your MM, remember how he did try, remember how he has loved you, remember how you did the very best you could and that of course he still loves you, even if nothing else can come of it. remind yourself about what you like about yourself and think about it over and over again and don't stop until you feel better. if all else fails, try to laugh at yourself, try to not take yourself too seriously (i don't mean this in a bad or mean way, of course i think your pain/our pain is very important, very serious, this is just a technique for making things a little easier). it can help to say something to yourself like 'okay, fine, this is hideous, but who am i in this universe that my pain is so important? i know that in 10 days i'll feel something quite different, so i shouldn't act/feel that this is the end of the world. i know that people have more permanent problems, they've been cheated on by someone they're attached to for life, people have lost their limbs, have gone blind, are developing cancers, are in car accidents, are starving, are wrongly imprisoned, are homeless...and i'm upset because someone i love and who has loved me can't be with me?! i should just be glad that he has loved me and i've loved him! let everything else be the way it has to be!!!!' anyway, that's what i tell myself when the negative thoughts and feelings start taking over...sometimes i win. the trick is to love without attachment and to appreciate all of the good we have in life (at least that's what i conclude in those fleeting moments when i really have a grip on this situation of mine, i'm not at a place where i can always feel like that...as you can tell from my variable postings).

i'm sorry if none of that helps. these are just the ways i tried to help myself when things were bad. if all else fails, find some chocolate or a cup of tea, wrap yourself in a blanket, call a good friend, bear your soul, cry your eyes out and worry about the consequences later. find someone to give you a good hug, it can make a world of difference. if i were there with you, i'd take care of you, i'm really sorry i can't do more from here. but you're going to get sick of the pain all on your own, you'll be exhausted from it and when you are, you'll start to come out of it, little by little, so hang on to hope and take good care of yourself in the meantime!

paris is lovely. i'm sad to be free in such a romantic place, i often freak out about the prospect of a very lonely future, but i feel better anyway...more healthy, but really scared. i've decided that my new first priority in life is to feel comfortable, at the very least, with who i am, what i have, what i've done and what i might do and become. it's awful feeling so alone in life, i want to feel something different if i can. i want to feel comfortable and i want the same for you.
lots of love, STN

Hi Dali and Corinne,
Just a fast note on the run. Dali, please write soon to let me know how you are, you sound in a very bad place now and I'm scared for you. The pain you're feeling has to run its course, there's no way around it so let that be, but please do anything you can to manage it while it's doing what the pain needs to do. The pain is healing you, slowly and in such an agonizing way, but it is healing you.
And Corinne, btw, I remembered the name of that film that i mentioned, it's called Matchpoint. It's so hard to watch, but you will gain some perspective on your own situation that might help. I'm not sure...it's really hard to watch, the message to us OW is so very very harsh, so if you're not in a moment where you're feeling strong, maybe it's best not to.
xoxo, lots of love, STN

Hi,
May I say that I am in the same boat.. After a divorce 5 years ago and plenty of opportunities for a relationship - the walls were high and then a co-worker gave me the most passionate kiss I have ever had...The walls were down and unfortunately he is married, 20 years, and an 8 year old daughter... I know that walking away is the right thing to do - but it is so hard - we talk on the phone a minimum of 3 hours everyday... He says he can't leave his marriage unless he gives it a fair chance and they have talked and "she" has a chance to make things better before he leaves... I know it's crazy - but hearing his voice is so comforting - I swore I'never fall in love again and it came and grabbed me - hook, line & sinker... I am looking for the strength to walk away and would like to say thanks to all the posts as it helps...the question is - how do you not pick-up the phone on the next call... He says he loves her...but he is "in love" with me... It'll be ringing soon and how do you walk away from the best 4 months of your life?

hi,
yes, you've got the same bug we all have. how to walk away...that's the question. my only advice is that you'll never WANT to do it, it will be something your force yourself to do against your own will. one good reason to do it is to save yourself before you get into any deeper - the longer you stay involved, it'll be that much harder to pull out. you will suffer, good Lord in heaven, you will suffer when the time comes...do what you can to make that less hard on yourself, get out sooner than later...if you can. if you can't, you're already in too deep. pick up that phone when he calls, but don't tell him anything other than that you love him, but you can't live with sharing him. i know, easier said than done...sorry i haven't got anything better to offer.

Hello STN,

Thanks a ton, the pain has eased now, partly because i could control with a lot of difficulty my urge to call. and partly because when he called and told me the reason, it was so frivoulous that something just changed inside.(excuse: i forgot to carry my phone, there was no ISD in the place, and i was not comfortable borrowings a phone from any of my relatives!!!) and i told him, i am losing my perspective on this, so i think you should give me space :-). there is a huge imbalance of what you can give, what you perceive i need, and what i really need... etc. we were going to take a trip to egypt, just as travel partners, but i cancelled that. its too soon, for me. he was disappointed, said i should try to balance it not cut off... etc ( meaning i will call and see you as i please, you do the balacing act???) i said no. you get to call me once a day, at this time,if you miss it, fine try another day. we had started this, but he always breaks the rules saying , i wanted to surprise you etc... but he refuses to put in an effort to stick to a time... also blamed me that i dont see his pain, etc... ( hey, if the pain was so bad, you would have married me, and been here or at least called)
anyway, its better, quiter in the mind... i did not sleep for four days... but eventually it feels like i have been washed and dried :-). i know some days this pain will come back, but atleast i know there is an end to it.

So you liked paris :-) you will like Italy too, except the chaos and the traffic ...
it will be a busy next week for me, end sems etc...
take care

dali

Hello STN, Jamie, Dali, Allison & everyone,
I do hope things are going well for you still in Paris. I have a horrible confession to make. I’ve done something that I’m ashamed to even post. Please forgive me for being such a despicable person. This is so hard to write down and as I’m doing this I’m feeling the most deepest despair and pain I ever thought imaginable, and it’s all my fault. All that is running through my head now is God what have I done.

Here it goes. Remember how I told you how my MM wanted to watch me f**k another man. Of course he couldn’t watch because we are 500+ miles away from eachother, but he kept bringing it up, asking me to f**k a friend or neighbor, tape it or have the phone on so he could listen. So, I got tired of hearing that and I kinda called him on it. Before you panic NO, I didn’t actually do it, but I made him believe I did. You see we talked Friday and I made up a grand story about a man, a hotel room and how they were waiting for me that night. He continued to beg me to do it. I told him how uncomfortable this was for me, that I “make love for love” not for the physical satisfaction or the act of f**king. He begged and pleaded, even described to me how he wanted me to f**k him and how he wanted me to tell him all about it. He swore up and down how much he loved me and how this would make him “love me more if that were possible” (his exact words). I told him I was afraid, didn’t want to do it, didn’t want him to think less of me but that if he wanted me to I would do it FOR HIM. He said he would call me later that night “if he could”. Of course I didn’t hear from him until Saturday morning. So, I continued my plan, I told him a story of a night of sex and he started to get off over it on the telephone with me, he asked if I enjoyed it and I told him it wasn’t love, enjoy would be the wrong description, different was more like it. He asked me why I sounded upset and I told him I was simply worried about how he felt about it. He said he wanted me to do that, hear about it, didn’t want me to think less of myself for it. We talked for a little while more that morning, he said how he was going to make love to me, sweet love, and he said I’ll call you later (like usual) and later never came. He called me again Sunday morning, we talked for about 45 minutes, he told me how horny he was and some wild things he was doing while on the telephone with me then all of a sudden he got kinda cold and said he had to go, he was busy. I asked him why so early, he had more time before she got home from service, he said “why do you do this”, he said “you know I’ll call you later if I can”. I waited about a half hour and knew I still had more time I should be able to call so I did, even though I’m not supposed to call him I did. I told him something seductive and how I wanted him and we talked for 2 minutes then I finally asked him what was wrong he sounded so angry, he said “nothing, I told you I’m just busy”. I told him he was making me feel self conscious about what I’d done, I said “I did what you begged me to and now it seems changed?”. He said “no, nothing’s changed, I’m just busy and I’ll call you later if I can?”. He said I love you, so did I and we said bye. That was noon on Sunday, it is now Tuesday and I haven’t heard from him.

He still denies that his wife has moved back in and even tells me supposedly mean things she says about them, their relationship and her moving back. Oddly enough the only times we talk now are the usual times she was out when she was living there. No coincidence I’m sure, I know she’s back I just don’t know why he wouldn’t admit that. Then again it took him 3 years to admit to me he was even married to her in the first place so why should I be surprised.

So now you know what despicable act I’ve done. I lied, God why did I do that, what ever possessed me to do that. Now, I’m almost certain I’ve lost him for good and it is all my fault, and the crazy thing is, I didn’t even do what he thinks I did. There are three reasons I think I’ve lost him, either he is disgusted with what he thinks I did (even though I didn’t, and he begged me to do that), or he feels guilty that I did it for him and feel bad about it, or I made myself sound too needy of him when I questioned why he had to go so quickly and seemed so angry. Anyway, it seems I’ve doomed myself because I’ve heard nothing from him since.

I can’t tell you the unbelievable pain and heartache I am feeling, I’m just so sad I feel I can’t go on. I’m a horrible person, I lied to the man I so desperately love, who just on Friday exclaimed a deep love for me, and now I’ve lost him. Maybe things are going so well with her at home now he just decided to cut me off. I don’t know, but I know it’s my fault he’s gone, its all my fault. I love him so deeply and dearly, why did I do this. I didn’t want him to be gone, now I don’t want to go on. My eyes are so swollen and sore from all the crying. I’m lost, I’ve completely lost myself.

Please don’t hate me too for what I did, I can’t even explain to myself why I did it, I guess I was testing him. He failed and I’m the ultimate loser. I am seriously pathetic and deserve all this now. I deserve nothing and no one. I’m so sorry I'm this kind of person and if I've disapponted you all.

Corinne

Help,
ladies, he just called me. He surely didn't sound like his old sweet self, said he didn't call yesterday because he "was busy". He's always so mysterious when I'm always so open to him about where I am, what I'm doing and who I'm with. Anyway, again we talked for only 5 minutes of mostly me talking, you know; are you ok, how was your day blah blah blah. He said he's got things to do and he'll "call me later". Could be another usual later today never comes, but I'm just so confused. I feel like a yo you that he just pulls up and down constantly.

What I did was unexcuseable, lying is a despicable act and testing him or not, it was unexcusable. I've made myself look like a hore in his eyes when in reality I've only been with two men in my life and he's one of them. I'm so so sad, and I imagine he won't call back today. Is that his new game? Why? Why paly me like that? I know you'll say if he calls back don't respond to him. I know that is the right thing to do at least for a while but I can't do it. If he calls and I don't respond I start to panic inside and my heart takes over. STN, you are right, he's my addiction.

I do hope you all aren't angry with my behavior. I've become a desperate and pathetic person, not even someone I like much anymore. Honestly I think he deserves better than me, he should go back with her. I feel like I just can't breath. Is he despicable or am I?

Corinne
XOXO

PEOPLE COME ON HERE AND CALL THE OTHER WOMAN WHORES, LETS BE REALISTIC HERE, NO ONE CHEATS IF THEY ARE HAPPY, IT JUST WILL NOT HAPPEN, ANDMOST MARRIED WOMAN WHO ARE WITH THERI HUSBANDS, AND THEHUSBAND IS HAVING AN AFFAIR, THEY VERY WELL KNOW SOMETHING IS UP, SOME CHOOSE TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT, THATS WHAT I WONDER ABOUT, WHY THEY REMAIN QUIET, PROBABLY FOR FINANCIAL REASON'S, BUT IN TURN PEOPLE CALL THE OTHER WOMAN WHORES?I LOOK AT IT THE OTHER WAY, THE MARRIED WOMAN WITH THE CHEATER, STAYING BECAUSE OF KEEPONG THE ROOF OVER HER HEAD, AND NOT WANTING TO CHANGE HER LIFESTYLE, WELL WHAT'S THAT? HMMMMMM A PAID WHORE! I DO NOT BELEIVE IN THE NAME CALLING ON HERE, ITS DISGUSTING, BUT IT CAN GO THE OTHER WAY TOO, AS I JUST MENTIONED, BECAUSE THATS EXACTLY WHAT MANY DO, AND SOME EVEN HAVE THEIR OWN MM ON THE SIDE, ITS SICKENING WHAT IS GOIN GON IN TODAYS SOCIETY, AND MANY OF US ARE SUFFERING, AND HURTING BY IT, BUT ONLY WE CAN CHANGE IT FOR OURSELVES...AND PERSONALLY, I AM READY TO BLOW! NEW YEAR, NEW LIFE, HE CAN TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT...

Corinne,
Please pull yourself together. This man is not worth two sh*ts. Please, Corinne you can do so much better. Lord, you are beating yourself up like you killed a person or something. Okay, you told a lie. So what!!??!! We all have. It's not about him. It's about you and finding your inner strength. This man is a f*cking loser and I have yet to see one redeeming quality about him. This man is using you and now he is trying to cut you off, but putting the blame all on you. He is a coward. He is going to say "I can't believe you would do something like that" all the while, this a**hole been damn near begging you to f*ck a horse (not literally) for his viewing pleasure. You are not pathetic, and you damn sure don't deserve all this pain. He is a loser Corinne. Anyway, we love you unconditionally and there is no judgment from us. We're here to build each other up, not tear down. Anyway, you're in my thoughts.

Hugs and Kisses
daniellejordan

Hey STN,
How are you girlie? How is Paris? I know I haven't posted lately. I've been so busy with work and everything. Everything is well with me. My ex-MM and I have been able to go back to that place before we became lovers. We're great friends now. He's a person that's always going to be special in my life and I'll love him always. He feels the same way, but this was not our time and place. Anyway, hello to all the other ladies.... Dali, it'll get better. Just hang in there. I've been through every emotion you're going through. It too shall pass.

Hugs and Kisses
daniellejordan

Dear Corinne,

leave that pathetic man please! please get into therapy... please, i see that you cant seem to do it by yourself, you need someone to help you.
this is my sincere advice dear, you seem to lose perspective, he has been lying to you, what you did was a desparate way to seek his attention... and this love is only degrading you more. please stop, before it gets worse, please just seek help.

love and best wishes

dali

Hello daniellejordan, Dali, Jamie, STN, and Allison

Such a rollercoaster of emotions. Eventually my MM called back yesterday for the usual disgusting sexual talk. He actually rang my phone 9 times while I was at work from 1:00 thru 5:00. Initally (last spring and summer) when we “talked sex” it was romantic, sweet and loving, now it is odd, erotic and often involves others. I is truly disgusting at times the things he says he wants to do, wants me to do. I’m beginning to realize it isn’t me he wants it’s an orgy. I’m not interested in such a thing. My connection to him is purely full of love and last spring and summer it all seemed so sweet and amazing, at least he made it seem that way. Obviously sex to him is nothing more then a physical act for sexual satisfaction. When we were actually together all those years ago and made love, I gave him myself completely, body, mind, heart and soul. It wasn’t for sexual satisfaction for me, I melted into him and it felt so right. Talking all these years, him telling me he loved me, it still felt right. It is so painful to realize that feeling is wrong. I wish I'd never called him last spring and started talking to him again.

My feeling is now he is living with his wife again in a “normal” existence, sweet, loving and real, and carrying on this erotic perverted sex fantasy with me. A fantasy I didn’t want to be a part of. I wanted the “normal” loving relationship he is now rebuilding with her, and promised me. We only talk now, and for the last month almost, when he first gets home from work and she’s not home yet and Saturday and Sunday mornings when she’s at some group. He is still telling me she hasn’t moved back yet, which I’d have to be and idiot to believe. He really must think I’m an idiot. He keeps me talking on the phone when I say I have to go (knowing I won’t hang up on him), but when he’s done with me, or he thinks she’s coming, it’s goodbye click. He asked me to marry him just a few months ago, I said yes, he even talked about me being his third wife and how he saved the best for last. Then Friday he said I’d have to be the other woman for a while after I move there to see if it’s what we want. So he expects me to move there, turning the lives of my kids, family and friends upside down, to a place where I know no one but him to be shacked up in some apartment (likely forever) as his other woman. I’ve considered myself his “other woman” for the last 19 years, I think that’s enough.

He promised me he loved me, made me feel so comfortable I felt it safe to tell him about the child he fathered with me all those years ago. He told me how sweet and beautiful he feels I am and spoke often of how much he loved me back when we were together and how he regretted not telling me then. How he knows things would be different now if he’d told me back then. Now he’s changed, seems dark and almost evil. He doesn’t love me, he loves her. That is assuming he is even capable of love because I know he’s had at least one affair since marrying her, he told me all about it in great detail. He has the most unfaithful heart and I think he marries to avoid being alone, not for love. Maybe I should feel sorry for her being stuck with a man with 2 faces.

Knowing all this, I’m still so in love with this man. That is so crazy I know and makes me so small and pathetic. He made me believe so many things, sweet loving things. I guess that is who I’m in love with, the person he made himself seem to be. My heart is so broken over him. I can breath now but I just cry, it all seems so sad to let go of him after all these years. I’m not planning on telling him good bye, I don’t think I could do that because the sound of his voice just makes me melt into him again, I guess I’m just hoping it fades and comes to an end. Good byes are never easy, endings are always sad, this love will hurt me forever. Eventually when the calls stop I’ll always wonder what he’s doing, if he’s ok, if he ever thinks about me. I think it also hurts to know he won’t care when its over, likely won’t even miss me and move on to a game with someone else. I’ve meant nothing to him and the saddest thing is, neither does our child.

You have all been so gracious with your help and guidance. Your unconditional love and support has carried me and often I can’t wait to sign on to see all your comments about my situation and how things are going with you. I love you all! Very much! Thank you for being my friends, my family. I care so much about you all. STN, how are things in Paris; Dali, are you continuing to feel better; Jamie, how are things going with the xwife and the children?; Allison and daniellejordan, are you happy? Please continue to post. Wouldn't it be so lovely if we could all get together for a girls night out, in Paris, I'd love that.

I’ll let you know how things keep going.

Much Love
Corinne
XOXO

Hi Corinne

Gawd I just feel awful for the torment your MM is putting you through.
It seems to me he is all about convience to him, he calls you when he wants to talk and it always seems he talks about sex and fantasies with you.
He isn't concerned about you and how your dealing with this break-up. Your NOT a LOSER..stop putting yourself down, you fell in love..that's it.
Stop punishing yourself and most of all stop the desperate actions, nothing you say or do will make him come back, he will come back if he wants too.
It's NOT you. You are such a strong super person, start getting tough...I know it sounds like a huge demand but you need to start to live again..TIME will heal you if you let it.
You have to stop worrying what he thinks about you.
Your not a game..get tough...let him worry about you for a change. Don't answer his call. If you do it once, twice, three times it comes easier with TIME.
I am not religious but I do beleive in 2 things...

1. FAITE - you were put in this situtation for a reason, to survive and grow from it, it will lead you to your next....

2. DESTINY - the ultimate answer to every fricken tear drop you have had...it will all make sense, let it happen, let it go.

LOVE ALLISON.

I met a man at work , I didnt know he was married at first, we started dating or I really wouldnt call it dating, maybe I would just go to his friends house and he would come over to my house, I did find out he was married through one of our coworkers, he didnt even tell me himself. I quickly found my self falling in love with him, and wanting to be with him all the time but the more I wanted to see him it seemed the less I got to see him. He always came up with excuses for why he couldnt see me and these excuses got more and more elaborate, he also made up excuses for why he couldnt call me, my self esteem has seemed to drop to a level so low even I dont recognize myself. I took some stupid risks, even trying to get pregnant. I just told him that I dont want to see him anymore untill I see divorce papers in his hand, I dont think these will ever materialize, I dont even think I will hear from him again, you would think I would feel free but I am so sad, I had big hopes I guess, because I loved him we seemed to have such a connection, we could laugh together, cry together, ect. He hasnt even called me back thats how much I mean to him, Im sure he is with his wife and that eats me up inside so bad I cant stand it. Does any of this ever get any better???

Hi Jamie!

I hope things with you are going well, what's the update I haven't heard from you lately.

You have totally freaked me out...you wanna know how..by calling me "Sweety" !! That is what my MM calls me, I am his sweety...that's is just way to wild...!

I wanted again to thank you for your advice, I have an update for you, it's a bit long so bare with me...

Things have been great with my MM as per usual, then it happened I hit a wall and hit it hard.
You see, I went my best friends baby shower this past saturday in which my MM actually took me shopping for the baby gift for (that in itself was weird....)you see most of friends are married, pregnant or wanting to get pregnant.
I hadn't seen all my girls in one room for awhile and for the first time I felt like an outsider, when normally I am the leader, it's not the fact that I felt left out in the whole nesting thing because I don't. I just felt so lonely.
So Monday at work me and my MM usually spend time together, but he got busy and never came by..so I left without saying goodbye. I felt so depressed.
He called me, he just missed me as I left, he was upset.

The next day he sensed my sadness and insisted we go for a drive to talk, so we did basically as soon as I got settled at work. He was very concerned on how I was feeling and if I was upset with him or us. I told him about the shower and couldn't understand why I was so upset. He nailed it on the head.
He said that it was the uncertainty of our relationship, and if we were together that whole baby shower thing would have played out differently. I agreed. He kept saying you need to talk to me and tell me how your feeling, I am here to support you that's what it's all about.

THEN...he says kiss me, I kissed him, he takes my hand and says. I love you, you have changed my life, you have made me feel emotions I didn't realize I had lost, you are my perfect woman, I have never felt this way about anyone, not just physically, but mentally, emotionally and chemically. If I could make 1 wish it would be that we could take the rest of the afternoon off and be together, go to our home and wake up together. I think about it all the time, I try and think about how, I just don't know. Please don't give up on me.

(and I don't know why a light went on in my head and I felt hope for the first time, real hope..)I say, I know you love me, and know this, that I will never ask for a deadline, this is how much I love you, as tempted as I am and how I deserve to be told, I am not going to ask when. I want you to tell me when your ready. I am being selfless here and I only ask that you extend me an olive branch, because in my heart, I know your sorting it out.

He nodds, he has tears in his eyes.

I am not sure if this is similar to what you were saying before about how it's approaching that next step...I can feel it, and I have no idea when. Does this make any sense to you ?

I played the game and I lost.

My MM called me last night, angry. After begging him to tell me what was wrong he came out with "I can't belive you were so quick to be with him". I froze. What do I do I thought, he's angry because he thinks I did it, he'll be even angrier if he knows I lied and made the whole elaborate story up. He went on to tell me she's moved back, supposedly Sunday, and the relationship is loveless, sexless, she's there to help with the bills. I tried to explain I did exactly what he begged me to do, said he'd love me more if I did it. He said "I didn't hold a gun to your head". He said things like he doesn't need two women in his life nagging him, especially one "he doesn't even know", meaning me. After all this time and communications he says he doesn't know me. He said "I haven't seen you in 17 years". He said if i move there "you know what you'll be, the other woman and if you don't like it oh well, sorry". He was so cold and angry and its all my fault. I couldn't mutter the words I lied, I didn't do it. He probably wouldn't believe me in the first place. After 20 minutes of basically pleading on my knees on the phone he said she's coming back I've got to hang up. He claimed "I'll call you tomorrow", we said I love you and good night.

My world feels shattered and dead. I lied to the man I love and now he hates me for something I didn't even do, would never do, couldn't possibly ever do, and he likely wouldn't even believe me now if I told him I didn't. This is all my fault, I'm a dreadful despicable person and don't deserve this man's love or any others. I know he won't call me again, ever. I so regretted not telling him the truth after we hung up, I wanted to call him and tell him but didn't want to get him in trouble with her. I may just mail him a note telling him the truth and saying good bye.

I'm so lost.
Corinne

Corinne,
I really wish that you could see that you're not the loser. He is the loser. You made a mistake by answering his call. I just don't understand why you blame yourself for all of this. And listen to this Corinne, even if you did sleep with another man, you didn't do him wrong. You don't owe this man anything. How can you continue to hold onto a relationship that has given you so little? You keep mentioning the "spring and summer" Well, the spring and summer man is gone and its time for you to accept that. He is not the man for you. You have created this wondrous fantasy in your head thinking he is so wonderful and it's blinding you to the truth. He looks at you as a sex toy. He just wants to f*ck. Like I said, the spring and summer man is gone. Corinne, take back your power and stop with all that self-hatred and drowning in your own sorrow and depression. Enough is Enough. Get up and move on with your life. You are a good person and it's high time you start believing and living that every day. If you can't do it alone, then maybe you need to try therapy. Because you are in essence blaming yourself for all of his faults. He is dangling you by a string and instead of saying "it's all my fault", "I made a terrible mistake" you should be looking for some scissors. It is time to cut those strings loose. I don't know what to say to make you see what we all see. This man treats you terribly and you worrying about mailing him a note. This m*therfucker owe you a bunch a damn notes for his callous treatment of you. I know some people can't go cold turkey, but you need to try real hard because you aren't getting one thing good out of this situtation. You are stronger than this and it's time you step up and walk away from him..... never looking back.

Love
daniellejordan

PS I really would love to meet you girls in Paris too. That would be the absolutely best!!

Hello Marianne,
It does get better. But my advice to you would be to let him go until those divorce papers are in hand. As a woman who had an affair with a married man for almost two years, you are asking for nothing but pain and heartache. And even if he does leave her for you, then you'll be in Stage 2. Jamie really explained that well to us. It's best to let him handle his business completely and if its meant to be, it will be. I am speaking from experience.... I would never want another woman to suffer how I suffered because I fell in love and had an affair with a married man for far too long. For me, it didn't get better until I let him go and moved on with my life. The other ladies on this site all have shared the ways in which they've managed and/or ended the pain from being the OW. I wish you the very best and my sincerest advice is that when he calls you (and he will) just let him know it was good hearing from him, but you are moving on with your life and he's not included. Trust me, you'll save yourself a whole lot of heartache in the end. Best wishes.

daniellejordan

I’m trying to hold on. DanielleJordan, thank you for your kind words and support. I’m really trying not to blame myself. I do realize that even if I had actually slept with this other man it would have only been at my MM’s begging and pleading. I just can’t express how many times he asked me to do it, said how he’d love me so much more if I did (hell, to me that is holding a gun to my head because obviously he knows I’ll do anything for his love). Saturday morning is when I lied and said I did it, Sunday morning he called and got off over it, Monday I didn’t hear from him, Tuesday he calls me 9 times telling me he can’t stop getting off over me f**king this guy, Wednesday night, he slams me with “how could you”. I just don’t get it. Could it be that his wife is now back and he was looking for something to get rid of me? Or is it he who is feeling guilty for trying to convince me to do such a vial thing? If he wanted to work things out with her and say good bye to me, he certainly could have done that in a nicer way if that’s the case.

I am very glad that I am not puppet enough to him to have actually gone through with a disgusting vial act like that and actually had sex with this other man, but I do so regret lying to my MM and telling him I did. That IS my fault. I’ve changed who I am in his eyes, I’m no longer the nice, sweet, pure girl he claimed he loved in his eyes. I want to take it all back and tell him its not true, that I was only telling him what I thought he wanted to hear, that the only man I want to be with is him and that I don’t want anyone else touching me. At one point on Wednesday he said “sure, why not, if you can’t f**k me at least you got to f**k him”. He also said “what happened to being all about me”. I hate who he thinks I am now even though he promised me he wouldn’t feel that way if I’d done it. I tried to remind him how he begged, promised he’d love me more, promised he wouldn’t feel I cheated on him, but he wouldn’t listen and if I argued he would simply say I don’t need to be nagged by someone I don’t even know. He couldn’t have been colder. Could he have been drunk, I don’t think so, he didn’t sound it he just sounded mad.

Today is his birthday. A week ago I asked him what he wanted for his birthday and he said me, at his front door. Now he’s gone to me. I know my “spring and summer” man is gone too, he’s been gone for a while and yes, I feel I’ve been fighting for him since October. Never did I mutter a negative word or ever contradict him in any way for fear he’d say “fine then see ya”. I’m sure he knew that and took full advantage of that over all these months. Even when he talked about me being with this other man he’s day “you liked it, you want more”, “you get off over, I know you do”. Was he trying to convince me or himself? I did so want to be able to wish him a happy birthday.

You’ll all be happy to know that I turned the ringer off on my cell phone today so if he called from work, or range me from home to call him back, I wouldn’t know. Of course, I can’t help but look at it from time to time to see if I missed a call. I’m trying so hard to avoid the urge to call him from my work phone (which comes up out of area on the ID) because if he’s there or not, he’ll know it’s me. If he wants me gone, then I guess I must be gone. He’d sent me some negligees a while back that I’ve packed up with everything else that reminded me of us and put them in a cold dark, undetectable place. I left work early yesterday and spent the day under my covers crying hoping to release my demons of him. I supposed that all helped a little. The heartache and guilt of knowing I lied, that I’m different in his eyes because of that lie, that if only I’d been honest things may not be this way, its all just killing me. All this time I tried so hard to be the one he wanted, the one he loves, now I’m the one standing on the outside because of one bad decision. That is why I feel it’s all my fault.

You know, I again have to thank all of you for your kind support and words. This “affair” has gone on for 20 years, and two of his marriages, this coming summer and I’ve never uttered a word about it until now with you all. Out of all the years, this has definitely been the most painful other then in 89 when I knew I was pregnant with his child, he had moved away, and I was lost and alone on what to do. I sure wish I’d known you all then, things may be very different now. Knowing you all and talking all this out has been wonderful. It is hard to hide all the sadness when I’m home, I couldn’t imagine how I’d be able to handle this without being able to vent this all, in very long notes (sorry about that) to all of you. It would be impossible to survive without your support. I love you very much! So you all are the wind beneath my wings, I’m on day 2 of fighting the demons I have with this man and pray the pain and tears will subside as time goes by. I’m better off without him……right? Will I ever stop loving him? I’ll still see him in our girls eyes every day, I thank god she’ll never know anything of him.

I’ll keep you all posted, and I’ll try not to be so long winded about it since you all know the story by now.

Much love
Corinne
xoxoxo

Could he be feeling as miserable as I am, thinking I actually did this vial despicable thing? Would he even believe me at this point if I told him I hadn't? What I wouldn't give to be able to reverse time. People lie all the time and never get caught, I do it once and look what I've done.

hello Danielle,

how are you... i need some reality check, here i am going back towards the fall again, i have agreed to a trip with my MM, for four days. i know it leads no where but i just want my break, to talk openly, enjoy a new place. this is not in the right direction, but could not help it.

STN miss you hope you having a good time.

love
dali

Hello Ladies Im back!

<3..Sorry I havent been on here in over a week, I truly missed you all!..<3

Corinne- I am so worried for you. Ive read most of the postings that I have missed, and this M.M. is a disgusting a$$h@le! Danielle Jordan is right..he's the one that should be apologizing..NOT YOU. Omg hunny I don't even know where to begin! Unfortunately most of our M.M's somewhat reciprocate some kind of emotion, that's why I think it's difficult for us to move forward. In your case, he's not showing you anything nice, so it should be somewhat easy. For him to even consider you a sex object proves that you two are not on the same page. You need to dig deep into yourself and understand that YOU DESERVE BETTER!

The Lying:

Ok Ladies..does this man have the right to be pointing ANY fingers about lying?? He does it everyday to his wife..Cmon! He is a damn hypocrite!

No human on this earth deserves this emotional battering. I usually have uplifting things to say to you on your situation, Im afraid I can't say anything positive about his callous nature. He's the type of guy let's say that if he did leave his wife, it would only be a matter of time before you find yourself living in a disfunctional relationship and he's finding an OW to carry out his perverted fetishes. You are such an amazing person Corinne, like we have all said..you deserve sooo much better! You need a man to love you, not to think of you in a sick way. The only way your going to forget about him is if you seriously stick to your guns and say "NO."

My case was different, but the minute I realized that we were not on the same page, I started dating other men. Even though I constantly thought about my M.M..it was nice to see what else was in store for me. You should do the same. Start off small..for example (I wish that you could up and go..its not that easy I know )..start by talking to your M.M less. You need to make this man wonder about you for once. Make yourself less available. Have fun with family and friends, damn even do yourself up and go out! This pattern is not going to change unless you want it to. I know this all seems way off track-but you need to take some kind of action here.

Then there's a part of you that is telling yourself..what about all the "sweet" things he told me. Or maybe.."what if he's going through a tough time..".."What happened to that wonderful man in the spring/summer?"..If this guy can turn on a dime..stay clear! I can't believe that this man that you truly love wants an orgy, and has sick perversions/thoughts about you and other people. What a jerk. I know it hurts you so much when he tells you about these fantasies...tell him fU#* YOU!

I love you dear, and we all want to see you happy. I hope your not upset with me by writing this negative letter, you need to know the truth. I just want you take some sort of action here. Don't continue to sweep these issues under the rug..it will only get worse.

Be strong.

Love you all!
xoxoxo
Jamie

Hi Allison and Ladies-

Everything sounds great, you two seem very happy! Like I've said numerous times, our stories are the same..except when I just read your last post. You M.M is far more romantic than mine. I don't think that you even need to validate deadlines. In my case it was crucial in order for us to progress. He seems very satisfied and comfortable with you, he constantly conveys "a future" that includes you in it!

My M.M is a complex guy! Hahaha..he's not really the sweet sensitive type. He's a bit brassy, serious, and hides his emotions. So I was always confused with guessing how he felt about me. It was very hard in the beginning (even now sometimes) to be 100% sure on how he felt about us. Your lucky, believe me, he wants to be with you, and most importantly, he's not afraid to tell you!

Your day will come in time, when you want that answer. It may be a long ways away, and you'll think of me! :) I highly doubt that it would be a sad ending in your story..just hold on for after show (Divorce)!!!

Talk to you soon Allison!
xoxoxo

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Ladies:

Speaking of Divorce my M.M's soon to be ex is a certified wack-job! She poisons the children, and everyone around her. She is a cancer. It's unfortunate that she will always be in the background, but I need to remain strong.

It's very hard for me to act like it doesn't bother me, meaning her senseless antics. She's purposely trying to destroy OUR new relationship because she is unhappy and jealous. She gets me so furious inside to the point I want to do something bad. I even have these daydreams with her in them. Ugggghhhh!

I should be thankful because we finally made it, and through the treacherous holidays. We get along so wonderful, and connect on so many levels I couldn't ask for anything better! Im still patiently waiting for the divorce which seems to be aeons away. My mind gets filled with "what-if's". What if he goes back, what if they reconcile, what if they go to counseling... what if...what if...what if...it's driving me nuts.

Watch ladies..when you get to this point of the "after-math" it's awful! My M.M is being so strong, and yet I am not. He's the one that's actually dealing with all of this, but I find myself becoming more annoyed and impatient with all of this. How selfish is that?! It pisses me off that now I have to wait ( a long time) to get married, because he's already been down that road. It's not fair to me that I have to put my life on hold because of his past.

Im not saying that I want to get married anytime soon, but I do want that option open for me in the near future. Im just nervous that he's not going to go there because of his latest fu@k-up. Here I go with my what-if's...What if his children don't except me. I will never be a mother to them, nor do I want to be, but someone that they can someday get to know, and respect as their dad's significant other.

Their divorce is some time away. She still calls him everyday on issues that don't even involve the children..it's her way of HOPING that he'll miraculously come out and say...I miss you..well he doesn't. I blame him too for not inforcing this to her..he's just not a heartless bastard (I am thankful for that :) ) to say such a thing..but he needs to in a way where she will know..ITS OVER!

It's so nice to come on here and talk to all of you, we should all meet up someday..that would be a wild adventure. Im going to do something different ladies. I know that when we come on here, sometimes it takes days to talk but I have aol messenger. Im going to create an additional/new screenname that way if any of you need to chat pronto..I will be online. Im going to create it today, and it will only be available to you all on here. I will customize it so only my buddies can chat with me and nonone else. I will come on later today and tell you the screenname. I hope some of you use it!

Love you all and hang in there!!!

xoxoxox
Jamie

Hello Jamie,
I'm sorry to hear the x is giving you such difficulities, but it sounds like your relationship is strong enough to handle it. Hang in there, you future looks very happy and full of a loving relationship. I think he'll come around about the marriage thing too after is finished with legal matters with the x.

I know my MM is no good for me, but it has been 4 days since I've heard anything from him. This past weekend was the first weekend in 10 months that he didn't call me. I can't tell you how painful it was knowing that all this is because of the lie I told that has completely changed who I am in his eyes. Yeah if I had done it, it was at his begging and pleading, and he promised he would "love me even more" if I did, but I should have told him I coudln't do it, that I loved him too much to do that. I don't know why I lied to him about it, I just thought I was telling him what he wanted to hear. I so desperately want him to know I didn't do it.

I'm sorry, I can't help it, this is just killing me.

Corinne
XOXO

I know I sound like a broken record, and please forgive me for going on and on, I just have no other form of release. I feel so alone and ashamed of what has gone on. When my MM and I spoke last Wednesday, in his arguing at one point he said if I wanted him then I’d be there at 8:30 this morning. He’s off today. I told him I couldn’t do that, especially with all the horrible things he was saying and the fact that he’d just admitted that she’d come back. He said fine, whatever, along with all those horrible other things that keep sounding through my head. Anyway, so I know he’s home right now, I called knowing he’d see my number and either answer or not. I called twice, he didn’t answer neither did she, if she was there. There is my confirmation, he is furious because he believes I was with this other man and I’m done.

I’m so confused, I just don’t understand how this all happened. I told him exactly what he was begging to hear, what he wanted me to do, how can he turn on me like this. Right before I was supposedly going to “do it” with this other man, he swore how much he loved me, how he wanted to make love to me, please do this for him he said, “I want to hear about it”. Days after he tells me he can’t stop getting off over it, it was so exciting to him, then BAM, he’s gone and suddenly I’m a slut. I made him believe I’d done it but that I was very upset about it, felt dirty, needed his support and at first he assured me nothing had changed, he loved me. Then he’d say things like “you liked it, it felt good, you want more I know you do”, even begged me to do it again. Whenever I’d say I did it for him, he’d say “I don’t want to hear that I want to hear it felt good”. The more I think about all the scattered things he said the more I wonder what the hell happened? I mean truly, if I’d really done it, I did exactly what he begged for and wanted to hear, why in the hell would he turn on me like this. He’s completely shut me out…why?

I so desperately want him to know I didn’t do it, that I’m not that person. I can’t help but feel this is all my fault, if I hadn’t lied, if I hadn’t told him I was with that other man and told him the truth, that it is he I love and only he who I want touching me, then none of this would have happened? He would still be talking to me. I’m really so lost, I’m so confused and hurt I feel I can’t survive.

I’m sorry to seem like such a pathetic burden.

Corinne

Hi everybody.
I'm new to this forum, I was just browsing the Internet looking for some kind of support and I've come into this forum.
I'm a 48 Italian woman and I've been dating a married man for almost two years. Well to be honest our affair started a very long time ago, 13 years ago to be precise. I'm a translator and he's a colleague of mine, an English guy who works and lives in Italy and is married to an Italian woman. As most affairs, it started at work, we've been immediately and mutually attracted to each other. At the time he had been married for some three years and had a one year old boy. We had a short and intense relationship, especially as far as sex was concerned. He told me that there were some problems with his wife in the bedroom. The whole thing didn't last long, a couple of months, than he dumped me, he felt guilty towards his wife and felt bad for betraying her. I was hurt but I didn't really loved him, I was young then so we've remained friends and managed to see each other once or twice a year. In the meantime I had other relationships (all of them ended badly, I've come to the conclusion that there must be something wrong with me).
Anyway, a couple of years ago we started to see each other more frequently, and before I knew it we were in love. Now I don't want to enter into details but we shared an intimacy that I had never experienced before. We spent wonderful days together, sharing interests and food and wine, not to talk about the most wonderful sex I've ever had. But of course this bliss can't last forever. I'm sure you all know how does it feel to be the 'other'. Everyone and everything come first. To cut it short, we started to have arguments, besides his wife suffers from some genetic disorder which makes difficult for her to walk, and this made things for us even worse. I forgot to say that yes he's still married but things with his wife are not really working, they sleep in separate bedroom and they stopped having sex soon after his son's birth. We got through a very difficult time, our relationship had turned into a rollercoaster, we either had a wonderful time or we fighted all the time. I blame myself for that, I had a bad year and I was so stupid not to ask for help until late November, when I decided that it was time to seek advice and saw my doctor who put me on antidepressants.
I managed to go through the worst month of the year(yes another price we pay for being in a relationship with a married man). Last Friday we met for a pizza and he dumped me. He said that things got worse at home and he couldn't cope with the situation any longer. He cares too much for me and doesn't want me to be unhappy. I'm quoting him. All he wants is my happyness. And going back to just being friends. As if I were a tape you can rewind or a computer where you can restore the system configuration, reboot and everything is back to a given point. I think that he stopped loving me. Now all I get are texts and a very business like email where he replaced the 'I love you' with a cold 'love' or 'lots of love'.
I'm not keen on giving advice or delivering sermons but if there is someone out there who's about to embark in a relationship with a married man, please give it a hundred thoughts and if you are already involved in it but not so deeply in love, well leave the ship before it sinks. Because you are the only one who's going to pay.
I thank everybody for listening, I have no one I can talk to and I need to share my feelings with someone who can understand and not judge me.
It goes without saying that I'm in pieces, it's three days I can't stop crying and spend sleepless nights. Any advice to help me to get over this is welcome.
I've been spending the last hour reading your posts and I would want to reply to all of them, I hope to overcome this crisis. Now I'm still in the mourning phase and the thought of not seeing him again just kills me. I know that many of you had already gone through this. I thought this could never happen to me, but it did, and if I look back I think that sometimes loneliness can be your worst enemy, at least mine. I would do anything now to have him back, but I know it would be the greatest mistake ever. Besides, I'm making myself pathetic and I'm not.
Thanks again.
lillybit

It's called "getting you where he wants you". he set you up. sometimes a guy will be intensely focused on getting a woman to do something out of SELF love. it's like a guy who piles pressure on you to sleep with him then doesn't call if ever you let him get his way. likely also he wanted an excuse to dump you, which left the door open for him to reverse his decision if he ever changed his mind on a whim, by tricking you into thinking it was something you had done wrong.

now corinne, i'm trying to be very polite, but there's only so many ways you can say this. take that stinky, lying, immature, using prick's number out of your phone, and don't call it again. not ever. the only way he will come back is if he thinks hs's losing his hold on you. but hopefully if he does, he'll be out of your hair by then.

trust me - you're not missing him. you're missing you. you need to build yourself up. you may not have a boyfriend but you still need your self-respect.... you think it will ever be better than this? can you doubt in five years time he'll still be playing cruel mind tricks with you?

and just suppose he is angry for you sleeping with another man (as he asked). he does that all the time to you. what are you apologising for? you gotta life of your own girl.

read your story, very sad... he doesn't sound like such a bad guy, but from what i understand of affairs, they hurt you more the longer you are in them. you have to look for the good in your life. you are a trnaslator... that must be a great job. why not take a special trip somewhere that's just about you? one of the girls here has just been to Paris... and you know, better that he's not available to you so long as you'd do anything to have him back. maybe you are worth more than that.

Me again.

I'm sorry for the frequent posts today. I wanted to let you all know I got in touch with him. It was a brief awkward conversation but in the end I told him about my lie. He kept saying "don't change your story", but I just kept saying that was all it was, just a story, that I was afraid to tell him I didn't go through with something he so desperately wanted me to do and was devastated when he was then upset when he thought I'd done it.

Honestly I don't know if he believed me or not but at this point all I know is I know the truth, I expressed it to him, and that is all I can do. I may never hear from him again, and that will be very hard and sad for me, but at least I told him.

This has somewhat taken some of the guilt off my shoulders. Thank you all for dealing with my rantings and for still loving and caring about me.

Much love!
Corinne
XOXO

Hi Jamie - Great to hear from you.

Trust me, your MM's knows the nutjob she's become, you know when women get desperate they do stupid things, men can sense that and that drives them away..everyday with you is another day of confirmation that you were meant to be together. I know it's so easy to always think "what if"..men don't..
They make decisions and that's it. The kids will accept you, but truly that isn't your concern. Your biggest concern is just to continue the loving relationship you have.
The marriage issue: I don't think he feels that he failed at that. You see don't count him out on this, if he loves you truly and that's something you want, he will do it, for you, for both of you. You are almost there at the brink, just think on how far you both have come. The rest is gravy my dear, hang in there. Every single day his love continues to grow and don't think for one minute he doesn't know how hard it is for you. Keep strong girl, time will tell.

I should speak TIME...seems to be my biggest enemy and best friend at once.
Am I strong enough ? Well here's another update....

He finally said it!! After a very emotional conversation, He admitted to me he doesn't love his wife anymore, he isn't connected to her at all, he even told me that on their wedding day he didn't say I love you...he said he never beleived in those words until me...he wishes I could understand how much he loves me..so I just blurted..are you going to leave her ?
He says..when in 3,6 months..I said NO..are you going to leave her period.
He says..I can't see myself staying in this marriage much longer, so yes.

So that's where it's at right now, things seem to be moving forward into a direction, like I said earlier time will tell...

Hi Lilybit...

Maybe it's just space you guys need right now, there is a lot of stress it seems you both have put on yourselves. I guess you have to ask yourself, were you happy or fighting the most. Seems like a love/hate to me..you loved him but you also felt anger that he didn't be yours. It also sounds like he truly wants you to be happy and the stress of his marriage isn't helping you.

Give it some time, that may proove to be the answer. I know it sounds totally cheezie but sometimes no interaction is the best and puts things into perspective for you. If he aches and misses you, he will be back.

Hi Pie,
thanks for your help. I have been thinking of taking a trip somewhere for a long time and I'll probably do that, I need a change and I need to put some distance between us.
I'm not going to do anything to have him back, not because he's a bad guy, but because there is no chance for me, he will never leave his family and I don't want that either, I don't want to build my happiness on other people's grief. I have always known that, so it's my fault too, I should have known better than this.

Hi Allison,
you got it! Yes it's a sort of love/hate. I love him and I hate him because he's not with me and will never be. But I've always known that. And I'm angry with him because he's somehow giving up his life to a woman he doesn't love any more, if not as a sister, out of duty. But I would do the same if I were in his shoes, after all he has a son he can't leave and a woman who needs him... I know that he can't imagine his life without them. He is not a bad guy, he is the right man in a wrong situation. I am the loser and I have to accept it and let him go.
I am sure he misses me, at least as much as I miss him but I know that he really wants me to be happy and he knows that I'm not happy with this situation.
I won't do anything to have him back, won't plead and cry and lose that little dignity that's left. After three days of non stop crying, today I haven't cried yet but I am very sad of course. I don't know how much time it will take to get over it, and probably he will always the one I truly loved but I know that things won't change for us. And I'm not saying that because I'm a pessimist but because I know that for sure.
I've never told my story before and to find the courage of telling it here has been the first step to overcome it.

Hello all!
Today is a new day and for the first time in a week I didn’t wake up feeling sad. A lot of that was in part to all of you and your constant kind, thoughtful and loving words of support. Also, I feel free now that I’ve admitted to my MM the horrible lie I told about fulfilling his fantasy of me sleeping with another man. I’m most grateful that I didn’t actually sleep with another man just to get my MM off, and I’m so glad I told him MM I lied. Whether he believed me or not I don’t care. Pie, I think you are completely right, he did set a trap for me that he could use either to get off, or get rid of me.

He did call a few times yesterday so I think maybe he’s decided he doesn’t want to get rid of me, but in all the despair I felt over the last week, the damage he’s done seems irreversible. I don’t feel any connection to him anymore, not that I mean I don’t love him because unfortunately I do still, very much, but I don’t feel love is a mutual feeling for him and that connection I thought I had before just isn’t there anymore. I’m his f**k puppet, and that is all. He’s made that very clear, especially with his statement “you’ll know what you be when you move here, if you don’t like it then oh well, sorry”. It was a cold harsh slap in the face, but a good reality check. He doesn’t love me, I don’t think he ever did. 20 years I’ve loved this man, 20 years all I wanted was for him to love me, to tell him about the beautiful child he gave me. He doesn’t care about any of it or about me.

The pain of letting go is still so great and at times takes my breath away. My heart aches for him, or at least the person I thought he was, and I’m sure this love will forever be a thorn to me, but I’m going to try and move on from here. I think he’ll probably call again and each time I’ll try to be stronger to let go and say good bye. It will be a slow process, but I see it is necessary.

Pie, please don’t feel you words were too harsh, they were said in loving caring thought and I definitely took them to heart. I do realize love isn’t supposed to hurt like this, and I realize he is only playing me. I wish I didn’t love him, I don’t know why I do, but I do realize what you say is so true. Yeah it hurts, but the truth isn’t always easy, its just something we have to face sometimes.

Thank you all for supporting my rantings. I do love you all! I’ll continue to let you know how things are going and I of course want to know how all of you are. STN, I hope you are doing well! Are you still in Paris? I look forward to seeing a post from you. Dali, I hope your trip goes well and gives you happiness. I’m thinking of you! Jamie, I pray for your beautiful love to continue to grow! Allison, DanielleJordan, you are all my dear friends! I love you very much!

Much love!
Corinne

Hi ladies,
Lillybit, You are going to be just fine and you made the right decision. It's hard at first, but as the days past.... the pain subsides and you move on with your life. It's a choice you make. You have to choose to be let him go and find your own happiness. Speaking of choices, Corrine.... when are you going to choose to let that that fool go? :) You should be counting your blessings. Let him be his wife's headache. Believe me, you are not missing out on a prize!!! Hey STN, how are you girl? Enjoying Paris.... I suspect. Dali, enjoy your trip. and that's my honest opinion and advice. Just keep it in perspective as best you can. I don't turn down trips. Don't have to ask me twice!!!! :) Jamie, stop letting that whack job ex get to you. Be secure in the fact that you have him. She's getting desperate because she can tell he really doesn't want her anymore. Allison, I'm happy that your relationship is going so well. You make us all proud. Hey pie, happy to see you back sharing your words of wisdom. :) You used to give us a mighty hard time. But we love you. You a part of the family too. Anyway, all is well with me. I can say that I'm really happy right now and I gained a lot from my experience. I wouldn't do it again, but life is about mistakes, regrets, falling down, and most importantly... getting back up and keepin it movin. Love you ladies

daniellejordan

Oh Corrine,
You are going to make me tear up. You have made my day. I am glad you are feeling better today and beginning to see the person he really is. It hurts, but it's such an important step towards moving on when the blinders come off. I am just so happy for you. There are going to sad days, but just remember that you are choosing to go through this short term pain so that you can have a greater happiness in the end. It's okay that you still love him and will always love him. But you're putting yourself first by saying this is an unhealthy situation for me. So I'm going to love myself more. Each day, as you disconnect yourself from him more and more, the better you will feel. It's a process, but it's well worth the reward if you stay the course. We're all here for you.

daniellejordan

Hi Danielle

Thanks for giving me some insight here. Its so funny how we can all give advice to others but when it comes to our own situations we're in the dark. Your right, its very simple, if he wanted her back, he would of went a long time ago. I need to stop worrying all the time about this. It really helps to hear it, especially from other women that are in my shoes.

Corinne-
I am very happy for you! You already seem alot stronger, and believe me..you will feel so much better in the long run. I know how difficult it is to leave something that you love dearly. Everything happens for a reason hun, this may give you two a break so he can come to his senses and realize what he may lose if he doesn't shape up.

STN-
I hope your enjoying your time in Paris. God I wish I was there, it must be really beautiful. I also want to thankyou for your kind words and loving advice that you give all of us. Can't wait to talk to you when you get back!

Allison-
My little sweety! Haha ( I know that's what he calls you!) Its so nice to hear your stories. Your really on pace for a beautiful relationship. You have such a great man that loves you so much. You give us all hope!

xoxoxo
Jamie

Hello DanielleJordan,
I'm trying so hard. The afternoon's are so painful because it is the time of day (when things were good) we talked often and for hours. He hasn't called me today and I have resisted my demons (with great difficulty) and not called him.

You are right, more difficult times are ahead of me, sad times and lonely times. I think about him constantly, it is so sad to know I'll never feel his love, that he chose her, never loved me or cared. I can't explain to you how beautiful and loving all our conversations were for the beginning 8 months. The last two months have been very difficult and emotionally wrecking for me. I know I can't get back the person I thought he was but god I miss those talks, feeling he loved me, feeling it was me he wanted. He really made me believe that.

Part of me wants to hear from him, part of me wants him to never call again. I wouldn't be able to say good bye to him, tell him I can't accept being just his little f**k puppet for the rest of my days knowing his heart isn't with me. Danielle Jordan I love him, how do I let that go. I know he's bad for me, I know he's been horrible and the pain he put me through over the past week has been unimaginable. It has caused irreversible damage for me, but all that still hasn't made the love go away. Its going to take time, I realize that, but god this hurts. I feel like a part of me has died.

I'm sorry, I'm trying, I really am. Today was better. Day by day.

Thank you!
Love you!
Corinne

Hey everyone!

Corrine you sound so much better, day by day girl, you can do it!
Same with you Lilybit. I feel so blessed to be able to come on here everyday and see the progress that has happened..Danielle and Pie you guys have come so far and really provide hope..sure we all want the happy endings like Jamie. But if the happy ending doesn't happen, well all know the odds stacked up against us it's great to have the support either way.

You see the main thing we all have in common, it's not the MM, it's the guts to love, the will to try and the belief in all things real. Following our heart, many people will NEVER have that.
We can't control who we love, but we can control when.

So ladies going through the hard part..just believe, it's gonna get better and have faith love exists for you again. You'll see..

Love Allison.

Hello Lillybit,
It has take me a few days to respond to your post. You and I seem to be sharing our despair at the same time, and our situations are somewhat similar. My affiar with my MM started in 1987, the physical part (which was amazing) of it ended in 89 when he moved away but for the last 17 years we've kept contact. At first it was a few times a year but we always reminded eachother of our love and feeling for one another. 10 months ago the conversations became every day and very intense until last week. I won't rehash everything again, I'm sure you've seen my posts as well, and last week I hit rock bottom. I definitely share your pain and understand the desperate feelings you are having. Every day is a struggle, and I myself haven't reached the point where it levels off yet but that time will come, for both of us. The ladies on this site are beautiful lovely ladies and are great support, I love them all.

In your situation I don't believe that your MM has fallen out of love for you, it sounds like you share a beautiful love, but he seems bound by obligation to his ill wife. It must have been equally as hard for him to let you go, but his love is why he thinks he should let you go, to not hold you back. His cold business like attitude is his own shield thinking it will help you move on from him, and protect himself from breaking down. I don't think it sounds like he'll be able to keep that up for too long, more like he'll come around to you.

Please hold on and know you are not alone. We all have had these feelings of despair and you and I are going through it at the same time. We are here for you and I'll give you as much advise as I can, however I don't think I'm in the best position to give the best advise right now. I know it sounds like he loves you, still loves you and you love him. Hold on to that and embrase the happy memories to get you through.

I do agree with your advise to other woman who consider a relationship with a MM, turn and walk away from the situation, it will only cause you pain. Unless there is a divorce/seperation in process, for your own sake take yourself out of the situation, please.

Please do keep us posted lillybit, we are in this together and will get through it together.

Much love
Corinne

Hello Allison,
Thank you for your sweet words and supporting me. I continuing trying. Certain times of the day are more difficult. When I wake up I’m hit with the sinking feeling that he’s gone, in the afternoon I look at my phone a million times to see if I’ve missed a call. I’m constantly fighting the demons that make me want to call him. I'm so grateful that I was able to speak to him on Monday and tell him the truth, that I lied to him about fulfilling his fantasy, I had to let him know that, and I was so happy that a few times after that call he did call me back (with the usual odd sex talk), but our last conversation was noon that day, he said "I'll call you back", and I haven't heard from him since. That is the only day we've spoken in over a weeks time. In the last 10 months we hadn't gone more the 24 hours without talking and now its been a week. I don't understand how a week ago Friday he claimed how much he loves me, begged me to be there with him, to now not so much as a word.

I cry every time I’m alone, words he’s said resound in my head from the good to the bad. I miss him so much. You know I’ve loved this man since I was a young girl, for 20 years and have missed him for the last 17, I don’t know any other way. I know he’s lied to me, in fact it could be that nothing he’s said to me over the past 10 months could be true, but I can’t help loving him. I’m a pathetic bum magnet. I’m just lost, but I’m trying.

Thanks for being there!
Much Love,
Corinne

Hello Corinne,
Thank you for your reply. It's a great comfort to me to know that there are other people here I can share my pain with. I'm really sorry you're having such a bad time and be sure that I know how you're feeling, I'm very close to you. It's amazing how much our situations coincide, I hit the bottom last week too and it goes without saying that things haven't improved very much since then. We're still in touch, via emails and texts and this somehow makes things even more difficult. Because he's really a good guy, he has always been good to me and this is why I feel so desperate. But on the other hand I know I'll never have him, he's too committed for that. We love each other but can't be together. Besides I'm to blame too, because I behaved in a very selfish way with him, always refusing to acknowledge his problems. I wasn't a great support. I suppose that I didn't want to waste the little time we had together talking about his family life. This morning I woke up with the unpleasant sensation that even if we were still be seeing each other, what we could share is so little compared to what he has had with his wife,the years they spent together day by day, the support they gave each other, the difficulties they went through and managed to overcome together. I don't know if you or anybody here has ever felt this way, but Corinne these are the things our MM will never be able to give us and I think that we deserve them. We are utterly alone and their life is elsewhere. At least as my MM is concerned. And this time I am determined to get out of this grip once forever.
Corinne I do really hope you feel better these days. From what I get from your posts, you are being very brave and you're not seeing him. I understand how lonely you must feel. I hope you have someone to talk to, aside from us here.
And I'll always be happy to hear from you and the other nice girls here.
So let's go on, the struggle isn't over...
Lots of love
lillybit

Hello Jamie
My mind is a bit clearer today and I realize I didn't really respond to your amazing message. I read it again today, I can't believe how much time you took out for me to clearly explain all my MM's misgivings and how wrongly he has been treating me. You are right, he does lie to me on a regular basis, his idea of wanting to watch me get f**ked is pathetic, disgusting and degrading. Have you ever seen that movie 9 1/2 weeks? He's like that guy in the movie, wants me to do things when I'm alone and video them, wants to watch me with other people, wants to tie me down and "f**k me up" (as he says). Please don't think it was always like that, two months ago it was beautiful, kind and loving. It's was about October he changed some how, something happened. It has been since then that I've felt I have been fighting for him on a daily basis, some days were good and beautiful, others were horrible. In the beginning of our conversations sex was only part of the conversation, by the end of October it was nothing but sex talk. I don't really understand why or how that happened.

He'd said so many beautiful things to me in the past, recently and even over the 17 years we didn't talk as frequently, that is what I'm missing and needing so much. You know I'm shaking right now because it's 3:30 here, the time he usually gets home and would (in months past) call me, but nothing. I'm clinging to this phone praying for it to vibrate and nothing. How pathetic am I. I'm fighting myself not to call him, I know doing that would only cause more pain. This is how my days have been. You are right, every time he talks about perverted things he wants me to do does hurt, very much, and I have wanted to tell him to f**k off, but my heart couldn’t do it. This is an emotional battering and the only reason I feel I deserve it is because of the lie, I lied to him, told him what I thought he wanted to hear and it backfired on me. I feel like I’ve completely changed who I am to him and he doesn’t like it.

I shouldn’t go on and on again, I just wanted to respond to you because I realized in all my rantings I hadn’t really told you how much I appreciate your words and advise. Believe me I take every word to heart and try to listen to it. It’s just so hard right now, I love him so much (for some reason) and I miss him desperately. Right now the pain is just so hard to handle I can’t seem to take control of it yet. I’m confused, hurt, I don’t understand what happened, why it’s ended this way.

I also want you to know I’m so happy for you and the love you have. I can understand you having some feelings of uncertainty, I live with pessimism, but your love sounds real and beautiful. Good for you, you go girl!

Much Love
Corinne

Good morning everyone,
I'm afraid I'm a weak pathetic individual. Despite all my thought waves trying to not speak to my MM, he called. The sound of his voice simply turns me to melted butter, especially when he is saying how much he wants me and needs me. He called Wednesday night and yesterday afternoon. He keeps asking what I'm waiting for, why I haven't come to him yet. Yesterday he said "you've been telling me for 8 months you were moving here, where are you, stop talking about it and do it". And yet his wife has moved back in, he says nothings changed they are just roomies, no intimacy just cohabitating together. How can I believe that, even his son is staying with his mother to give he and his wife time alone to work things out. Again in the afternoon he said I'll call you in a little while. Surprise, I'm still waiting. Why does he still tell me he needs me, loves me, wants me, why would he want me to be there only to see me what twice a month when he can get away. I don't understand why he just won't leave me alone. The loneliness is heart crushing but this yo yo is even worse. When we talk I laugh, when we hang up I start crying.

I wish I could make you all proud and see I'm moving on but I'm stuck in this miserable place, so in love with this man who dangles himself in front of me like a string to a cat, and I can't seem to let go. God I'm just so in love with him the thought of losing even the sound of his voice terrifies me. I'm a pathetic creature.

I love you all, I hope you are well.
Corinne

hello Corinne,

we all go through the yo yo stage, i am going through it. they call back because at some level they need you, but they dont love you. if they really did they would be working like hell to be with you. love is like ambition it makes you selfish, in the fact that you want to be with the other half all the time, so if it was really love, he would have come to you. so he does not love you... just start thinking that way.
in your case, as everyone else has told you just do not pick up the phone. he is not worth it, it will be difficult, it will hurt but eventually it will be for the better.
i have had e very long and difficult week, end semester and all that. still not decided on the trip, see dear i am a yo-yo too, so dont worry, just work it in your mind, get the desperation out... one day at a time, if you can take the major step then take small once. you dont call, if he does take alternate calls, then every third call etc... its all in the mind, give it up in the mind

take care
dali

hello lillybit,

i agree with what you say, about the time MM and his world... and we can also be that world, and make new memories in another setup if the make us their world... otherwise it is lonely and desparate.
i wish you a speedy recovery :-), pain is also a sickness after all, and also an addiction sometimes.
take care

dali

Hello Corinne,
yes Dali is correct, we all seem to go through this stage. Which is the most difficult and painful. I'm not exception and I'm going through it as well. In my case I'm the one who doesn't want to end it, I'm the one who sends frantic texts and emails. Until last night. Now I've definitely made up my mind, I want him to be history. He will never ever be with me and, given the situation, we won't even be friends, I don't think I can consider him a friend, not now and not for a very long time.
The sooner he's out of my life the better.
I think that you should do the same, I've read all your posts and the replies you got and I completely agree with each word Jamie told you. This man is a womanizer, he's abusing you, he's trying to trick you into something you don't want. And most of all, he doesn't even remotely love you. You have to face that, this man is just selfish, he wants to make sure he still have the power on you, that you're still there ready for him, should he decide to show up again. Do you really want to live with a man who will cheat on you all the time? Who wants you to have sex with others to fulfill his perversion? And who would deeply despise you afterwards if you agree to do that. No judgment here, sex is a playground and people are free to do what they want, provided they both agree and like these games.I know many couples who are into this. But I gather that you wouldn't be comfortable with that, you just want to please him hoping he will be back to you and love you because you did something he wanted you to do. You couldn't be more wrong. He would despise you and treat you like a slut. How can you love a man like that?? I'm sorry if I do sound so harsh, I guess I'm not the kind of person who sugarcoats things.
But I'm truly sorry to hear that you are so bad, I'm bad too and we both seem very lonely and apparently we don't have anybody to talk to. Loneliness plays a great role, but being with the wrong man can even be worse. I'm not very good at giving advice, but try to forget him, think that he's just using you but, once again, he doesn't love you. And are you sure you love him? Sometimes it sounds like you're obsessed with him.
Lots of love
lillybit

Hi there,

I'm a 24 y old girl and I'm in love with a married man too.I don't know why it happened and I feel bad about it, he's a lot older than me too and has children. I met him this summer and at first we were just good friends.. but then after a while he told me he wanted to know me better because he liked me.

At first I was rather hesitating. I liked him a lot as a person, but in my mind it was just not acceptable. I'm 24 y old and I never had a boyfriend before, so this was not really how I thought it would be. I told him that it would be difficult for me moraly speaking since I met his wife as well and that I couldn't do it. Nothing else happened this summer but we staid good friends and he asked me to keep in contact (since we live rather far away from eachother) and to meet when he would be in the neighbourhood. I told him I would like to remain friends, but that I wasn't sure about the meeting thing. Anyway we kept in contact and I have to admit I couldn't stop thinking about him... I really felt guilty about this, because I like his wife too and it's just not right in my head.. but why are the feelings there then, why did this happen? I told him how bad I felt and he told me I shouldn't worry too much about it, that it's his responsibility and that I don't have anything to do with it so I don't have to feel guilty. He told me he never ever cheated on his wife either so that it's difficult for him as well but that the feelings are just there and he doesn't know either why it happened.

I know this my sound a bit "cliché" but I rather believe him since he's a nice person and not a "don juan" type.. although I'm probably blinded as well ;-).

Anyway some time ago he was near my home and we met and things escalated although we didn't make love (literally speaking). I felt bad about it...very confused as well but on the other hand he makes me feel happy, I feel good when I see him smile or when I hear his voice... and I feel so stupid because I know it's probably not possible, since I don't think he would leave his wife for me and on the other hand I even don't want him to do so because he has children and they are so nice, I don't want to ruin everything either.

ANyway since we met again it's even worse, I think about him night and day and he told me he felt the same way. He even asked me to come and live closer to him, even if the situation is difficult but that he misses me terribly and that I have to think more positively because the future will indicate what we have to do. I told him I had to think about it because I can't throw away my life that I have here just to find nothing back there, because I have my parents here, my family, my job, my friends...if I left I would loose everything and if he would leave me then, there would be nothing left for me. He told me he understood but that he would like me to be more independent and that I should take decisions more quickly instead of thinking all the time.

Then everything was ok until christmas, he called me three times a day, even though I didn't ask him to, but then just before christmas he sent me a mail that he wanted to do a break because he didn't feel loved, because I can't make decisions and I'm just to infantile.. I don't say enough what I feel either. I was really so hurt when I read this, so I tried to say more that I love him etc etc and everything was ok again. All this time I feel already so weird I mean it's just like my head is exploding. The last five years I had a lot of problems and this summer I was so happy, I went on holidays, made some great friends and met him who was at that point a great friend..I felt really happy.. what didn't happen anymore in a long time. I felt like I finally knew which road I should take in my life.. be more independant, go and live alone (I still live with my parents), go and live where there's more nature etc. But now I feel bad again, because everything is so difficult. I like him, I have an enormous affection for him and he makes me feel good but on the other hand I feel a bad person. In general I think I try to be kind to everyone and now I just feel bad. I want him but I can't have him and I know he has a wife but the feelings are there and I still want him...

Just 10 days ago he told me he would have come near my house but not that near that I could meet him like this, I should have to take a hotel and go on holiday as well... I hesitated because I really want to be with him, but on the other hand I'm so scared to do something that will ruin everything: my life here, his family, my memories from this holiday and also the bond we have now. It was also only for two days and I would only have been there for only a few hours every day since I can't take holidays on my work at the moment and I would have to lie to my parents... So I told him that it was difficult for me this time. He was so disappointed and since then I hear him less. I told him how I feel, that I miss him that I care for him but don't know what to do and he says he understands but I have to do more efforts because like this I will loose him. Last week I waited four days for a phonecall that was going to come. I felt like a nervous wreck... and this afternoon as well, if possible he would have called but nothing arrived.

I think this is partly my fault because I'm too ambiguious ... I don't know what to do with the situation. I was so happy this summer and now everything escalated and I feel guilty about it, but on the other hand I have really strong feelings for him, I think about him night and day, I want him to hold me, to be there for me and he's my best friend as well, I really tell him everything what happens in my life. I don't know what I would have to do without him. And he seems a nice and sincere person to me, although maybe this may sound ridiculous since he has the intention to cheat on his wife.. but I believe him when he tells me that this never happened before.

Anyway I don't want to loose him and I feel so bad because I have the feeling this will happen when I continue like this... I don't now how to make everything ok, because probably I only have three possibilites: or I go away (or he goes away) and I really don't want that because he's my best friend as well, or I'm the other woman next to his marriage, what makes me really feel bad.. I never saw myself like this and a third possibility is that he leaves his wife which, concerning how things are going now, will probably never happen.. and I would never ask for it myself because I know his children, they are really really nice and I don't know if I would be able to live with myself..So all possibilities would make me suffer.. and staying best friends like this, I don't think we are at the point where this is still possible. I hope it'll be all ok at the end, although I don't know what ok means for me now..

Anyway this was my story..

Thanks for listening

Take care all of you!

use your head, follow your head and not your heart, you are way too young to be involved with this bullshit, (you may not think so) read the other blogs. don't waste anymore time or emotions, you'll appreciate this 1,2,3 or even 5 years from now. You will not be the same person you are now in 5 years. Put yourself first!!!!

Hi Ladies,

I can see that there are so many posts to catch up on - unfortunately i still don't have my normal email access and can't read everything, there's just time for a quick note while i'm on the run. i have to tell you that things are settling down a bit for me, but once i left my mm and that town behind, i started to decompress...and i went through some painful changes. i had horrible nightmares for a while and still have bad ones every other night or so. it's hard adjusting to my new life, but i can tell you, as alone as i feel, as sad about the past, well, i just know that i'm healthier than i've been in ages. it feels good to clean up my life, even if getting rid of my MM means that there are some huge gaping holes in my heart and my life. anyway, in hindsight, and from a different continent, things do look better. corinne, i can't tell exactly how things are for you now since i don't have too much time to read, but i glanced over some of your messages and i have to tell you that i think it would be great for you to get out of your pattern. if you can break things up in your life, you might not keep running around and around in that same destructive circle you've gotten yourself caught in. we are all really concerned for you and we all KNOW that you deserve better than what you get from your MM. i wish you all could meet me in paris. i know gettin away like that would do wonders for your perspective on your situation. i decided to stay a couple of more weeks here (paris), some of my family is coming to see me because they can tell i've takn a wrong turn in life and we're going to try to mend some old wounds. i hope it works. i know i need to fix some relationships if i can, or at least improve them and maybe i won't feel so lonely anymore and maybe i won't be such an easy target for men who want to make me dependent on them. i hope things will get better for me, and if any or all of you suddenly you go crazy and want to completely cut loose, just go ahead and buy that ticket to paris and i'll be waiting for you all here! my mm expects me to call him from here, but does he ever offer to call me? no. last i heard he had emailed a female friend of mine who had betrayed both of us. he's such an ass. of course i still love him, there's some kind of bond between us that i can't get over, but i'm better now because i'm just not all that worried anymore about making sure he's happy with me. and when i wake up i the morning, the first thing i say to myself is that i don't want anything other than what i already have in life and i love myself first. i hope he's well, but i'm taking care of myself first these days. it helps a lot.
i'll try to read more posts if i can later, it's hard to get email here, but i'm really thinking of all of you often here and want to know how things are going.
i'm going to post this now and see if i can do a better job of catching up on what's been happening with all of you.
xoxo stn

Hi Emily

I know that moraly and mentaly speaking stopping is the best thing to do.. But it's just so hard en the problem is also that I don't really want it I guess. Maybe it's difficult to understand because I hardly understand it myself but the last five years of my life were rather difficult for me and now this summer I was happy, I don't want to loose that again.. and he's my best friend as well. I appreciate him as a person and as a friend also. Maybe I'm living in an illusion, that's possible.. but I hope that at the end everything will be ok and I will find some happiness in my life...

Anyway thanks for the reply!

Take care!

I know it's the hardest thing you will probably ever do...but you need to take care of you first. I'm speaking from experience, my mm left his wife and moved into my condo with me. Everything was great. We had been seeing each other for about 3 years and yes he does have kids (4) ages 7 to 18, he finally left her after I told him that we're done. We had been living together for about 1 1/2 years and I was in total bliss I thought we would get married, have kids, buy a home everything you want when you get married, but the fact is it doesn't work that way. He continued to see his kids (which meant he saw more of his ex)and after being divorced for for almost 2 years guess where he wound up.... yup back with the ex. I feel he dragged me around for almost 5 years for his convenience at his convenience, the degpression is enough to kill you, I've learned to stayed so far away from mm, they can't be honest to themselves or anyonelse. Let me know how things go and be strong.

Dear Corinne,
I just read this last message of yours. First I have to say that you are absolutely not a pathetic creature. You have a heart, you gave it to someone who does not take care of it. That's the bottom line, so some way or another, you've got to find a way to take it back, and to take good care of it yourself. If your MM comes around later on down the road, and starts to treat you in a way that shows he really cares about you, then great. Until then, you're in real danger. As long as he has control over how you feel and as long as he keeps acting like a monster (and he is), you will keep suffering.
Now...you have to find a way to pull away from him that works for you, and you already know this, but you haven't found it yet. We all seem to have slightly or very different ways we've gone about this. You'll have to find the way that works for you. Your problem is worse than many of ours in some ways because you've given sooooo much of your life to this man in terms of time. He's really built into your psyche and taking him out is going to be very tricky and complicated, or at least very painful. You've got to accept that there's no way out of your ring of fire without getting scorched, it's going to hurt like hell, but the fire that burns you will purify you too...I wonder if that makes sense.... anyway, what i'm trying to say is that your pain is going to help you in the long run, but it's a price you have to pay, there's no way to get better until you go through it.
That being said, I can offer some advice, but I don't imagine that it's going to fit your needs exactly, it's just food for thought until you find your own way of handling things. The truth is that I've been inching away from my MM for many reasons. As you know, I can't handle losing his love or giving up my love for him. This was my base line. I knew that I had to maintain at least a certain level of peace between us...but after that got settled, I started to work in secret, so to speak. I've been building my strength on the side, finding ways to decrease how dependent I've been on my MM without letting him realize that this is what i've been doing. I've been letting him think that he was my world, just so that I could control his behavior better and keep the peace I needed. But slowly, quietly and painfully I've been learning to live on my own. He still has no idea that I've been building up towards being able to move on altogether, he thinks that I'll be loyal to him forever. Perhaps part of my will, but the idea is that I let him think this because I needed him to keep loving me while I built up my nerves to go on without him. I'm sorry, I think I"m not making sense, what I'm trying to say is this: I did whatever I had to do to keep him treating me the way I needed for him to treat me while all the while I've been planning to do and think and feel many things that I never told him about. I couldn't let him know, for example, that I want to get strong enough to see other men, I couldn't let him know how angry I've been about how he's treated me. Instead I've used my anger privately to build up my strength.
What does all this mean for you? Well, I guess I'm trying to say is that you need to figure out what your base-line is. What is the absolute minimum you need in order to maintain your sanity while you're working on building your strength that will help you get to a better place?
For some people, they can handle a complete and total break. I'm not sure what you can handle at this point given the length and depth of your dependency on this guy of yours. It's obvious that the best thing for you is a clean break, he's being so horrible to you, this is clear. But if you can't handle the clean break, you've at least got to find something you can handle and then go from there. I like Dali's idea of not answering some of the time when he calls. Is there any way you could make the clean break in the comfort of family or friends? I mean, could you go through your withdrawl surrounded by people who love you?
I'm afraid to tell you that I think you need a clean break, maybe that's too much for you to think about. If you don't like to think about the idea that you'll have to live your life without him, if this thought is too hard to bear, then just don't think about it...no one can force you to dwell on that thought except yourself. I mean, tell yourself whatever you have to tell yourself in order to make the break. If you have to tell yourself that you're just pulling away long enough to regain strength, then you'll approach him again for a reconciliation from a stronger place once you've healed enough, that's okay. Do whatever you need to do to get that strength, perspective and independence back. I'm not saying you have to lie to yourself, I'm just saying that you've got to do and believe whatever it is you have to do and believe to get control over your heart and mind back. Nothing else is important at this point, nothing. In the long run, once you've come back to a place where you don't need him so much, you'll be able to sort the rest of the mess out then.
Does this make any sense? I'm sorry if it doesn't. The idea I have in mind is that you should fight this battle for your heart, your spirit, your psyche, your mind and your life from a place of strength and however you get to that place is okay...just get there. There's no use fighting a battle when you're weak and bloody on the battlefield, you won't win like that. Find your strength again, wherever and however you can.
The yo yo thing is a struggle for all of us, don't feel bad about it. Accept it, be glad about it (it's a sign that you're working on getting to a better place) and keep going to a higher place in yourself every time he tries to knock you down.
BTW, my MM turned into a sex monster too for a while. I think I mentioned that already once. The only way I turned him back into a person who treated me with respect was to cut off the sex stuff. Suddenly it dawned on him that I was more than someone he wanted to have sex with. the longer i gave in to his stupid idea the that i was just for sex (in order to keep him happy), the longer he treated me that way. these men can be pigs, it's no doubt. selfish pigs. if you want him to remember that you're not his emotional and psychological slave, then don't let him catch you acting like one (even if you feel like you can't help yourself). There's a big part of your relationship that's about his having power over you. Take that power back, he hasn't handled it well (to put it mildly) and he doesn't deserve that power.
Okay, I know all of that is easier said than done, believe me, I know. These are just the thoughts I have about your situation and again, in the end, only you will be able to tell what will work for you and what won't. But all of us here are hoping and praying that you're going to make choices that will take you to a better place over time. Please be careful. Don't let him f*** with your head so much anymore, start fighting back, if you have to f*** with his head to go forward, then so be it. If you can't do that or don't feel like it, at least protect yourself until you know what you want to do.
Please please don't be hard on yourself, you have enought struggles dealing with his crap, blaming yourself won't help. Forgive yourself, really forgive yourself without excpetions. If you fall off the wagon again, okay, fine, just pick yourself up and get back on. Do it however many times it takes until it sticks. And it will stick eventually and he'll look at you with amazement when it does. You'll no longer be the dependent creature you've become. You'll be a beautiful woman that will suddenly realize that you deserve so much more than what he's offering right now. He'll be sorry for treating you like nothing, worse than nothing. And you, you'll be so much happier with your life and your health that you'll only look on him with compassion, you'll wish good things for him and you won't want anything from him anymore. You'll be the one calling the shots in your life, he'll be the one wishing he had treated you better. He'll be thinking that he had figured you out all wrong, he'll realize that you're an amazing woman and he was lucky to have your attention and affection. He'll know just how awful he has been in that moment when he realizes he has no more power over you, when he realizes you've got your sh#* together, when he sees what an amazing woman he let fall through the cracks. And who knows what the future will bring from there....
This is how it works, he'll try to manipulate you for all he's worth because he needs you still, but let him try...you have other things to concentrate on. Let him think you're loyal to him, or tell him to go to hell straight out -that doesn't matter, what matters is that you do what you need to do to get strong again and that you find a way for the situation to be stable enough to allow that to happen.
It might happen in baby steps, you might take some wrong turns, there will be backward steps, but just keep on going forward and don't look back.
Love, STN

Hey Danielle,
I'm so glad to read that you and your MM became friends again. That give me hope. I was concerned a while back when I thought you two had stopped talking forever, I was afraid the same would happen to me and my MM. I feel a lot like you do now, I feel like I'll always have a special place for my MM in my heart, but this just isn't our lifetime to be together, if you know what I mean. I feel like in this life I'm living, I have to learn to accept that I can love someone with my whole heart and still let him go. Learning this kind of acceptance has taught me to focus on what I'm glad I have, and to focus on the relationships that I can build. In a way it's been good for me, but I have to say if I think about it on low-energy days, my heart is really broken. But what are we supposed to do that we haven't already done? Anyway, we've done our best and the future will have to take care of itself. Do you ever wonder if he'll be the person you think of with your last thought, before you die? I sometimes have this morbid thought. I feel like my MM, as awful as he was in so many ways, is the person I've loved more than anyone in my entire life...i feel like he's my soul mate, even if he can't be mine in my normal life. I guess that sounds strange, oh well, this whole affair has made me strange. I'm just glad you've pulled through and found your way back to being friends with him. Does his wife know you two are friends? If I had a husband who was friends with a woman in the way I'm friends with my MM, I have to admit I'd be heartbroken. The bond is just too deep (at least the way I feel it, sometimes I'm not too sure how he feels it).
Love, STN

Hi Allison, I just wanted to say I think you're absolutely right. We had the guts to love completely. That's true. And maybe this life isn't made for the kind of love most of us have felt, but I know for sure that loving my MM, as much of a dreamworld as it was, was still the most real, deep and meaningful experience I've ever had. It's so strange that living in the dreamworld where our love existed turned out to be the most real experience of my life...I don't really get it even now, but I do see that my life will be changed forever because of it. And I'm a better person by far because of the experience. My life is more real than it's ever been because of it and it did take a lot of guts and a pure heart to love the way I love my MM. You're right, when we believed in our love, we believed in something real. Our MM are living lives built on a different kind of love, otherwise, why would they seek us out in the first place? I know a lot of people won't agree with what I just said, but I really do believe that my MM loves me in a way he'll never love his wife. His love for his wife is a practical thing, his life with her is conventional. What we have shared seems to be something that exists beyond the limits of practicality and convention, it's a bond I think I'll feel forever. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe things will change, but it's how I've felt all along through thick and thin with him. It may not get me anything concrete in the end, but loving my MM has changed me fundamentally and forever.
xoxo, stn

Hi Dali,
What did you decide about your trip? I can understand why you might want to go and why you might not want to go.... I know that I still need some time with my MM, I need to make sure things are okay between us, or I just don't feel good about myself and my situation. I'm not as desperate as I used to be, but a part of me still panics if I think we might never talk again, if I think I'll never see him again. And another part of me never wants to talk to or see him again, but that's not a part of me I like much. If we can find a way to a peaceful relationship, one without sex or too much intimacy, then I think it's a good thing. Getting there has been hard. Letting go completely was too hard and I don't want that. So I can see how stabilizing your relationship with your MM is appealing. I guess in the end, for me, it's important to keep loving my MM, but in a way that isn't destructive or unhealthy or unfair. Do you feel the same way or are you looking for something else from the trip you might take? I wonder what your MM hopes to get out of the trip. Do you think he'll try to convince you to maintain the physical side of the affair again? I hope you find what you're looking for in your relationship with him, I hope you can find that peaceful place in yourself where you know you've done the best you could and the right things in the end.
Paris is expensive. People can be so rude here. But I'm so glad to be in another context, I can see things more clearly from here. I have some space to practice forgiving myself and for learning how to live without wanting more from life than it can offer. I guess I'm lucky to have this chance. I know I'm lucky, in fact. At the end of the day, it still hurts, but there's so much to see here, so many distractions, so few reminders of him, no one here who even knows or cares about him that I'm returning bit by bit to who I used to be when he wasn't the center of my life. It feels like someone I love is dying, but it also feels like I'm getting a second chance at life. To be honest, I almost killed myself this year several times. Now that I'm living in a part of the world where he only exists in my thoughts (instead of in my life), I can see what a mistake that would have been. From now on, since he's not in my living space anymore, he's only what my thoughts and feelings make of him, nothing more, nothing less. I can choose to remember the good and let the rest go. That's what I've opted for and I think it was the right choice.
Anyway, those are just thoughts from Paris. I won't be able to use email again for a while, so I hope that when I return to it I'll find news about you and your trip. I hope you make the decision that will be best for you.
Love, STN

keep in touch, i have so much to tell you, i.e., the direction your heading for, don't lose hope but let me know

I screwed up there, anyhow keep in touch, i know what you are going thru and i think i can give you some sound advice, i'll tell you all about our situation and how it began and ended, our age diff and other stuff, please keep in touch.

em

Dear Emily

I really appreciate your reply.. However I can't promise you that I won't continue this...pathetic and without caracter I know :o( but I care for him.. I even think I never had this before...

It all may sound like a "cliché" but he seems nice to me, not a don juan type or someone who has a whole bunch of women all the time.
The hardest thing for me is that I feel so guilty in front of his wife and children but also in front of my parents who would never think I would do something like this, but on the other hand it really feels good (the feelings I mean) and I hope that it's going to be ok, because he makes me feel good, it's like finally I won't be alone anymore and I will be able to start my life... It may sound ridiculous I know..

Anyway, I'm really sorry for the things that happened to you, I'm sure it hurts a lot because I sometimes feel already hurt and it's probably nothing compared to what you made through.

Take care!!

Hi STN.

I feel like we know eachother from all the posts that I have read from your journey. I know exactly what you mean by "maybe I'm wrong"...darling you can't be wrong. The game isn't about who's right or wrong..do you feel it..the feeling of you can get through anything, don't you feel empowered! As much as the MM have put us through good or bad, they all seemed to leave us with one thing - a toughness we could never get in a normal relationship. I can't describe it..but it does this to us..

- Makes us independant, makes us want to travel, embark on new things
- View the world as it's our own
- It makes us cry like a little baby when you almost forgot how to feel

Hey I know..my relationship seems positive right now, but lately it's been a rollercoaster ride of emotional drain, not to mention the copial amounts of red wine I have been consuming..!! Anyhow what I am trying to say as much as they hurt us, they also provided a re-birth. Bet your ass there is no stronger woman out there than us!! The Other Woman...NO ....the Woman they LOVED.

Love ya STN, hang in there baby...Allison

Hi Allison,
Thank you so much. You're right, when my head is on straight and my energy is high, that's exactly how I feel. I'm a new person, or at least a better person because of this. Yes, there's a huge hole in my heart right now and yes, I do still love him, but in the long run, I'm learning how to invest myself in people who love me back and especially how to love myself because I can't count on anyone to always be there for me except myself. It's making me tough and it's making me compassionate all at the same time. Good lord is it hard, but you're right, having the power back makes me feel like I fought the hardest battle of my life and won. Thank God. And now I'm awake to life again, I was nearly dead before.
I think I used to think it wasn't about power, but that's what it was in a large part because my MM tried to control me...and it worked. He controlled my emotions and my psyche for a year before i got a handle on them again. Now he's the one sitting and waiting for a word from me and heaven knows he deserves to wait and wait and wait and wait.
I've got to run, but thanks for the words of support, they really help me.
xoxo, stn

STN, it was wonderful to hear from you. I’m so glad you are getting settled, I’m sorry you are a bit lost without your MM but you are on such a good path. You are such a beautiful person and have such a sound base of how you (and the rest of us) can move on from these MM of ours. You will find happiness as time moves on, time heals all wounds, so I’m told. You know I love you and am praying for your happiness.

EVERYONE:
I’m ashamed. Despite all your good wishes, advise and warnings I still can not seem to break the hold this man has on me. It is impossible for me to be derogatory to him or say something he may not want to hear. I’ve tried avoiding his calls, when he makes them, but he’s seems to call so much more seldom now then before that when I see it’s him I jump at the opportunity to talk to him. He called last Thursday afternoon with the usual I need you, I love you, nothing has changed here bla bla bla shit. He begged me to mail him pictures of me, to send them Friday so he’d get them Monday or Tuesday. Yes ladies, I’m afraid I’m that big of an ass, I mailed him pictures, some what provocative pictures, along with a letter. The letter was about things we’ve said to eachother and times we’ve talked, what it will be like if we meet up. I did that on purpose so if “she” got the mail (god forbid that happened), I wouldn’t seem like some perverted sex fein that is sending him pictures for no clear reason. The letter clearly stated how he wanted them, which he did. I guess I knew deep down I had to cover myself, just in case, so he couldn’t have it all blow up in my face making him seem like the innocent I’m harassing. Anyway, so he didn’t call Friday afternoon after I mailed the stuff so I called him to let him know it’s on the way. He called me Saturday seemingly desperate to see me, to be with me. He called again Sunday saying how horny he is for me, and now I haven’t heard from him since. The package should have gotten there, did he get it? Did she get it? God I’ll die if she did. I’m assuming since I haven’t gotten a “you bitch” call or anything threatening like that she didn’t get it, but like Pie said before about that stupid lie I told him, I think he’s set me up….again! I feverishly tried to call him from work yesterday to make sure he got the package but no answer. I know he was there, just didn’t answer the phone knowing it was me. Has he found me repulsive and doesn’t want to ever talk to me again or was he asking for the pictures to set me up again to break me down like before? I regretted sending those things after I did it, I don’t know why I did, he just seemed so needy for them, desperate to see me. I told him I was nervous about him seeing the pictures and he said “what are you afraid of” and I told him I was afraid he wouldn’t like them. He said “you’re crazy”. He always says stupid platonic shit like that. Never really a solid answer, and if I start to somewhat complain about the lack of time we have to talk lately he’ll say “stop whining” or “just chill”.

So here I am, in a panic again, wondering did she get my package? Did he get it and is disgusted with me, or was looking for a reason to tell me to bug off? My mind is mush and I just keep crying, constantly. I know what you’ve all said, stay away from him, don’t answer the phone, he’s a monster, using me, doesn’t love me. I hear all those things, but the sound of his voice washes it all away (for the time being when I talk to him). He really knows how to push my buttons. I know if she saw my package she knows he’s as much to blame as I am (because I covered my ass with my letter), but that doesn’t make it any better. What if I’ve blown apart what they were working on getting better. Ok, so the sadistic side of me would be happy with that, but the compassionate side of me doesn’t want to hurt anyone and usually wind up hurting myself. My fear is my family here will discover what I’ve done, then not only am I crushed but ruined.

I’m so sorry that I’ve again not heeded your advise. I hear it, believe me I do, but after all these years of loving him I know no other way, he is so deep inside my soul. Unfortunately it is like a cancer to me, it’s killing me. I need one of you sitting next to me for when I’m about to do something stupid to say Corinne, don’t do it, he’s no good, he’s evil. I have no will power which has made me now, no better then pond scum after I’ve sent those pictures. I’m so scared of whose hands that package got to and I don’t know why I’ve put myself through this again.

I’m so sorry.
Corinne

Good Morning,
Today is another NEW day. I got a hold of my MM and HE got the package, so huge relief there. He said he's been "busy" and hasn't been able to call. That seems to be his answer more often lately. He certainly isn't making my coming there seem too appealing, if that is what he really wanted. More I think either 2 things, he's working things out well with her (even though he said yesterday "every day is a struggle") or he's actually found another "other woman" to satisfy his sexual needs, one that is there, if "she" apparently is giving him nothing. I'm not sure but I'm starting to see alot of the unknown and even though I don't really know what his lies are, he is definitely lying or hiding something from me.

For the first time I didn't cry on the way to work today, more I was thinking what is he up to and do I really care. I had a long conversation with myself lastnight, I know that sounds stange but due to the lack of anyone else to talk to about this face to face I came to a conclusion; he got the package, which is what I wanted, he's definitely hiding something(s) from me and what kind of a basis is that for a beginning, and if its ended now I'm ok with that. We didn't have a fight or argument, we ended the call with the usual I love you's, and if I don't hear from him again yes that will be very sad for me and hurt deeply, but the unknown about him is bothering me more now than anything. I see him more as manipulative and conniving now, calling me whenever he feels like it. I could have been in a horrible accident and he wouldn't have known and likely wouldn't have cared. So for that I feel a little free. Will he call again, yeah, I'm sure he will for the usual sex talk but today ladies, I'm putting my phone on silent so I won't even know it. Ok, so I'll check it to see if I've missed a call from time to time (habits are hard to break you know), but I won't call him back, I promise. Wish me luck with this.

I want to thank all of you for your kinds words, compassionate non judgemental understanding and love. 20 years of keeping silant about all of this you have all helped me pour out the bad and get ready to accept the good.

STN, keep doing what you are doing, hang on to the love and happy memories which will bring you peace and allow you to move on to a newer happier time in your life. I can't wait to hear more of what is going on with you!

Dali, if you've decided to make that trip, have a wonderful time! Keep your heart and mind open and enjoy the ride! Be happy with every moment.

Jamie, I hope things with the x are calming down. You are definitely loved by your man, stay strong and she'll finally realize he's gone and move on. It will take time but it will happen, and the children will warm up to you because ultimately the will see how happy you are making their father.

Lillybit, we are in this moment together. Your MM does love you and you did have very happy memories together, sexually and otherwise. Hold on to them, remember them and try to block out the bad. There is a love out there for you and if this MM doesn't come around in time to realize you are the love of his life then it's his loss, you'll find love and you will be happy again. We both will.

Allison, DanielleJordan and Pie, you are my guts and glory, my cherished sisters. I hope you are happy, content and finding love. Your caring, loving, and non judgemental advise and guidance for me and all of us in instrumental.

I love you all and will let you know how strong I can stay. Wish me luck, it is going to be a bumpy road I'm sure of it, but I'm willing to take it. The path of least resistance has only brought me sorrow. I will battle my demons of the MM and hopefully will win this time, he's hurt me too much. I realize I love him, so very much, but that isn't enough. Love isn't supposed to hurt like this.

My love to all of you, my friends, my sisters, my confidants. Thank you for lifting me up. Please do let me know how you all are doing.

Much love!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hi there,
I'm so glad to hear that you're somehow getting over him!I was a bit worried reading your previous post. I'm sure you're doing the right thing, whatever he's up to he's not worth your pain. Probably you're right, he's either straightening things out with his wife or replaced you with someone else. I don't know if you're still married or divorced but you have a family and I think this is important. So I wish you all the luck of the world, try to hold on and get rid of him once forever. Of course you had good times and, as you said, they will always stay with you. But now it seems that bad times have exceeded the good ones, so it's time to move on. Without regrets, he doesn't deserve you, you're too good for him.
As for me, I'm slowly recovering as well. If there were a pain chart from 100 to 0, I'd say I'm around 95. I still can't sleep if I don't get a text from him, we're still saying that we love each other but I haven't seen him anymore.As you pointed out, habits are hard to break, it takes time and it's still too early. A few hours ago I switched on my old mobile, and there were still his texts and reading all those passionate words made me cry, I admit that. I deleted them, I'm trying to delete all the things that hurt me. Or to prevent them from popping up into my mind.
Anyway please let us know how you're doing... it's not easy and you will go through bad times again. But little by little I'm sure we'll both be able to pull ourselves together.
A big hug
lillybit

It is nearly 3:30 here, the time in months past he would call or anxiously awaited me calling him (as it was in the beginning). I know it's going to hurt as the time passes and he doesn't call, but I know he won't. I'm trying, very hard, to repeat to myself, don't call him, leave it alone, it's done, he doesn't want to talk to me.

It hurts so much to know he doesn't want me anymore, but that is so obvious to me now the way he hasn't been calling even a quarter of the amount of the time he used to. He wouldn't have talked to me yesterday if I hadn't called to make sure he got my package. Yeah he said he loved the pictures and repeated many times he wants more, said that I'm "perfect", but he's a bullshitter. It hurts to know he doesn't love me, that he never did. I just don't understand why he strung me along like that. To think I told him about our daughter, he doesn't deserve to know about such a beautiful thing. I waited 17 years to tell him about her, waited for the right time which seemed to be now after all the wonderful things he said to me and how he wanted us to be toghther. It hurts to know he doesn't even care about that. How can someone be so miserable to another human being. I'm heart broken but I know it's going to be a bumpy path. I just have to keep reminding myself it's over, don't call, let it go. If only it were 5:00 then this hour would be done, this really hurts.

I'm trying!
Love you all!
Corinne

Good morning,
I'm sorry to hear your pain is still so great Lillybit, I have to admit if I had to scale my pain I'd say I'm at the same range. He hasn't called. There was a time he couldn't go 24 hours without talking to me, now if I hadn't called him Wednesday to make sure he got the package, it would be 5 days since he's called. I wasn't really prepared for how badly letting go of him would hurt, especially since it isn't me who let go. The unknown of where is he, who is he with, is he thinking of me, why has he let go, is what hurts the most. Over the last 10 months we said some of the most beautiful personal things to eachother, letting go was never even a consideration.

Anyway, I'm trying. I'm starting to realize he didn't really love me in the first place, he was using me to make himself feel good about himself and sexually. I got him off, I pumped up his ego, that's all he needed from me. Unfortunately I am totally, completely and passionately in love with him. I'm trying to figure out how to let that go.

I hope you can find comfort in that your MM loves you, you are a part of his heart. Remember the good times, the sweet times, the romantic times and perhaps they'll get you through. It sounds as though he is suffering just the same as you are.

I'll continue trying and fighting my demons that try to make me call him. The weekend is going to be very difficult, he always called me on the weekends, I'll have to try and keep busy.

I'm thinking of you Lillybit, do keep me posted on how things are going.

Much love!
Corinne

Hi..

What hurts as well for me is that I just can't talk to anyone about it even if I feel bad, they just wouldn't understand.

I tried to talk about this on another psychology forum before and I really got reactions like 'you bitch' or "people like that don't even deserve to exist, you can only be a horrible person if you do things like that" or "you are a whore" or the usual things that he plays with me and I'm having my eyes closed and I have to break of every form of contact immediately etc.

All those things hurt a lot, because I know I'm not like that.. I mean it's true that it's wrong, that it would hurt a lot of people and that's a lot in my mind, but I'm also just a person that wants to be loved even if I maybe didn't make the right choice. I myself wouldn't have thought either that this would have happened to me and certainly not since I never had a boyfriend before and I'm quite serious and silent and I hardly ever did anything else in my life besides studying and working... You just know what it is when you are in it, even if you think it would never happen to you.. I always thought that things in life come automatically, like for my parents (studies - married, even now still happily married and in love after 35 years - children - nice job) but it's not like that, sometimes unexpected things happen that you would never ever imagined and then you have to cope with it if you want or not...Anyway those comments hurt a lot,..

I just don't know what to do because he's my best friend, I tell him everything and I know I have feelings for him.. on one side I just want to admit to it because it feels right when I'm with him and I feel less alone, but on the other side I'm so confused because I feel guilty and I think he would never choose for me either and even if he did I would ruin a lot... But it's strong as well and I don't want to loose him. Does this all make me a bad and horrible person?
Does it make sence to you?

I don't know :(.

Take care...

dear Lillybit,

is as though i am reading my feeling in your words, i am in the same place as you. the insomnia, the pain and the mobile texts :-)
i will be finally taking that trip, with him on 5th, dont exactly know why i am doing so? but i am maybe the thought of one last time... make one last memory...

take care
dali

hey
don't be so hard on yourself, believe me i know how much you hurt but remember how young we are (i'm 28)we have our whole life ahead of us, think of where you will be in 5 or 10 years from now. they know they have us when they want or need us, hindsight is great, i never thought my mm would wind up back with his ex but after the divorce and us living together for a couple of years......you never know. just don't believe and fall for what they say, we had a bond so close that i thought no one else could ever have, he told me everyday how much he loved me, wanted me and wanted to spend the rest of our llives together, it was a learning experience, they sure can change our lives to fit theirs especially when they don't have anything else, or have nothing to lose, they are insecure and most of all manipulators. try to thinkk of his family and children, is it fair to them, he may not be in love with his wife but if he is cheating on his wife can he actually be an honest person, you don't want that. there are so many cliches but all i can say is what comes around goes around, get involved with friends, join a club, dance lessons places where you will meeet new people, you never know who is around the corner everytime you step out the door, rememeber where children are involved they will always be there. he actually told me that he wanted more children but then said no way i don't want to start over, i was ready live with not having children with the man i loved but i was just cheating myself from true happiness because i wanted children with my mm more than anything, i thought it would be something that was just between us bring us closer it didn't work out that way and i look back now and know i deserve to be with someone who doesn't have that baggage and wants to be with me and start fresh there is someone out there for you and you will find him maybe not today or tomorrow you just don't know when or where but it will happen it took me a long time to "recover" from my mm because i always thought we would be together and believed everything he said to me everything, in a way it pisses me off and all i can say is that it is not worth the emotions and time it is a hard lesson but well learned
take care and remember you COME first not him

Hi everyone!

This actually as a reply to "what were you all thinking" but I wasn't able to submit it there, it keeps on disappearing from the list... Any ideas why?

My reply: Look,

It's true that those things would hurt a lot, that it's wrong, but you don't undertstand if you're not in it. I'm not commenting on you because it's us who are probably wrong and not you. But I'm just saying that it doesn't make you a bad person.

I mean I'm 24 years old and I never had a boyfriend before, all my life has been fixated on studying and working and I still live with my parents. This summer I met a man and he's married and I fell in love with him, he has children too. I never ever would have thought this would have happened to me because I used to think and in a certain way still think in the same way that you do,but it's not that simple. My parents gave me a good education and I don't understand why it happened and I blamed myself already a lot for it. It's not true that I don't care at all about the wife and the children.. it actually tears me apart inside because I know they are nice people and I don't have any rights to ruin that..children deserve to have a real family!! but what I feel inside is real too, and I miss him every minute of the day.

I actually don't know what to do with it because I don't want to hurt the other people and on the other hand I have strong feelings for him too and it hurts a lot and yes you are right in a certain way that is egoistic as well. However it doesn't make you a bad person, it's not for sex or lust like you say, we didn't even have sex until now because I felt bad about it even if the feelings are there. I don't know how it is with other people, but it's not at all for this in my case. He's my best friend as well and I tell him everything. I don't want to loose that because I never had this before which is also egoistic, you are right.

I'm not trying to defend it here, I know it's wrong it's not something to be proud of and it's true that not only the men are guilty and it's true as well that you should clear it out at home when you want something else before creating other more difficult situations.

The only thing that I wanted to say is that often in the replies that I read people are attacked like they are some kind of monster just because they want to be loved even though it's probably a wrong choice they made (like me)... but it's not true that suddenly you become some kind of monster, maybe we are blinded, I have to admit that, but that's what happens most of the time when you are in love, even though in this case it's far from ideal. Sometimes things happen in your life you never thought would happen, like in this case for me. My parents are married for 35 years now, they are still in love. I always thought things were ok automatically, that something like that would happen to me as well. I myself never had a real boyfriend before and I'm 24, I think I'm a quite silent person and I studied a lot, didn't go out much..I never ever thought I would do something like this.. and yet I'm in it now adn I feel guilty as hell but yet can't let go, my head says no, my heart says yes. I used to think as well that you had to be a terrible person to create a situation like that, if you would have told me this 6 years ago then I would have said that this could never ever have happened to me. That it's bad and wrong.

Sometimes life takes a direction that you didn't think possible and then you have to cope with it. It's not just this, but I saw already in my surroundings that sometimes things happen that you never expected not only on the love -side of life but in every aspect. That's why I think you should never judge people because you don't know them, you don't know what they are thinking and why they act in a certain way even though wrong. Other people may do the right thing in this aspect of life but do big mistakes in others.. It doesn't make you a bad person, maybe a stupid person at that moment yes, but not a malicious one. I just learnt that you just know certain situations when you are in it and not from outside... not only in this case but also regarding other problems.

This is not an attack towards what you said because you are right.. I just wanted to explain that sometimes it's not that easy not that black and white and you do the wrong things even though you didn't want to at first and but you do stupid things anyways.

Take care!

My dear,
I would do the same!! Yesterday I was in Venice and I just thought how wonderful it would have been if he was with me. And he thought the same. So enjoy your trip and try not to think why you're doing that. And I do really hope you'll have a wonderful time.
Take care
lillybit

Hi Corinne!

Im so sorry I havent been on lately..things have just been really busy around here. Everythings going great (thankgod), I have no complaints. I will be on later to chat some more I just wanted to drop by and say hello and hopefully all is well with you and your M.M! Keep me posted<3
xoxoxo
Jamie

hello Dali,
I'm so glad to hear you are making the trip. It will be wonderful for you and him. Maybe it will be one last memory, or maybe something else. Either way it is a fantastic way to end one chapter and begin a new, whether it be together or not you will have peace. Either way you can come away knowing you both have a mutual love and respect for one another and fait will take it from there but the love will always be true.

Enjoy your trip, have a wonderful time, feel love and be loved. Let us know all about it when you return. You are definitely doing the right thing.

Much Love!
Corinne
XOXO

Hello Jamie,
I'm so glad to hear from you and to know things are going so great. I was really praying they were beautiful for you. I'm a horrible pessimest so I was worried, but I'm glad to hear things are going so well. How are things with the x? I hope she's calmed down and learned to accept her situation and move on.

My MM called me Friday night. You know he says things like "you know I love you" and "you know I think about you" "I'll call you when I can you know that". I'm so confused, exactly what is it he's expecting me to "know". I know he bitched me out just over 2 weeks ago basically telling me to go f**k myself and now I'm supposed to know he "loves me". He goes a whole week without a word (which destroyed me), he gets my pictures and has them for a week and says nothing until last Friday about them and yet I'm supposed to have "known" he loved them and "can't get enough of them". I just don't get it, I'm such a yo yo when it comes to him. So he calls Friday then not again until Sunday night and again says "you know I call you when I can". What I want to say to him is I don't know a thing and where the hell have you been? I KNOW I cry over him every day, I KNOW I'm nervous and uptight all the time. My face is breaking out for crying out loud from the stress. 40 years old and I've got pimples. I melt when I hear his voice and I'm so afraid to question him about anything for fear he'll tell me to go f**k myself again, I'm scared to be derogatory in any way, afraid it will make him snap. He told me Friday he thought about me all week but was busy, that "she" is nothing but their and that life together is a constant struggle. Sunday he tells me he wants to "make love to me in more ways then I can imagine" and asked me to mail him more pictures, letters. This morning he calls early to tell me not to mail anything, she'll be home this week. What the hell am I supposed to think about all of it, my head is spinning. It is constant, he reals me in and tosses me out over and over again.

Am I supposed to "know" he loves me after all the horrible things he's said to me? I feel so unstable or is it he who's the unstable one? I'm lost, confused, sad and unfortunately still in love with him. Oh, he also said he'd call me at lunch today, big surprise, he never did. I guess I was supposed to know that. (sorry that was a bit cynical but I can't help it, I feel so thrown around) Does he want me or doesn't he?

Again, I'm so happy for you, please do keep telling me all that is going on, I love to hear about you beautiful growing love.

Much love
Corinne

Hi Gals

I hope your all doing great. There has been so many things happen to me in the last 3 weeks I just compiled them into 1 message and hopefully you guys can give me your thoughts.

All in all things are still going great with the M.M (i think), there has been some breakthroughs and honestly I am unsure of them, one minute I think it's all good and then the next I am confused as hell. Ok here it goes:

I was out to lunch with my MM and a friend, where the guy friend was saying stuff that got me thinking too much and I was depressed. When me & MM got together later, he told me the following:
"Do you wanna know depressing ? How about going to the gas station and you have insufficent funds because my wife forgot to pay a bill, so she took the money out of the line of credit which had to be covered by him. He says she does it all the time, she is nickel and diming me to death."..then he admitted that he doesn't LOVE his wife anymore, that he is not attracted to her,he didn't even tell her that he loved her the day they were married, she has been on antideppresants for years, and that the last time they had sex was like 3 months ago...!!

NEEDLESS TO SAY...I FREAKED OUT AND SAID WHAT 3 MONTHS AGO ?!! Ladies 3 months ago was our 1 year together when he gave me the ring...
I told him that if there was a remote chance that they were going to "rekindle" he would tell me and I would Leave..he says she is the one who came on to him and he had too in case she got suspicious...at this point in time I was balling my eyes out, I couldn't believe my ears. He begged me not to leave him, he kept saying that, the irony of the whole thing is your going to leave me and that act confirmed my love for you.

Gawd I felt so awful I still do.

SO THEN I SAID IT....ARE YOU GOING TO LEAVE HER.
He said when 3, 6 months ? I SAID NO..ARE YOU OR AREN'T YOU GOING TO LEAVE HER PERIOD.
He put his head down, looked at me and nodded yes. He says, I can't live my the rest of my life like this, with her. So I left it at that.

Then last week, we spent a day off together basically in a hotel all day together. We go to lunch and he says to me, as much as I love our super sex days, it's not reality and if we plan on living together we should do more regular stuff together, he says, he is worried that I would become bored.
Reality is I work a long day and I come home and I am tired.
I said I can't beleive you think I would be bored, there is nothing I want more then to come home to you and put my head on your lap. He then says, you shouldn't be upset at that and you should be happy that I am even discussing this with you. So then we talked about what a typical day is for me and for him.
I said..ya but reality is also that you would be spending time with your kids as well. He just nodded...that was last thursday, I didn't speak to him all weekend and he just came by now and wants to see me later.
So there it is...I have NO idea what it all means.

That's the scoop for now ladies.

Love ya Allison.

Do you know what it is like to be married and have your husband cheat on you?
You devote years to him and your children. You build a home and memories to hopefully cherish with your grandchildren. Then someone comes in and thinks they can have your man. They don't think of the wife left home with the children, wondering when your husband will be home from work. You all need to realize that with time all relationships get a little routine. But you still work hard at it, because you took a vow and your going to do your best. Then you have people, who for some reason think they can just walk into your life and take away the man you married. Do you realize the devastation that comes into play. All your hard work and some bimbo thinks she can save this man from his misery. Misery which is not what he has, but that is what he is saying. You leave woman struggling to pay bills and children wondering what they did wrong to make daddy leave. It is such a hardship on us wives who are the victims of someone elses selfishness and uncaring about someone elses feelings or lives. I wish you all the best with your new men, if you got them because guess what. You WILL be the ones left sitting home with kids and trying to pay the bills and wondering what happened. A cheater is always a cheater and when it comes around "The first wives club" always gets the last laugh.

Think about what your are doing and who you are hurting!!!

First of all you have no right to judge us, if your man cheated I am sure he had his reasons. It's takes 2 to tango.
Oh and I feel so bad about your "bills" all the MM who left their wives, kept paying for their kids.
We are not bimbos in fact most of us are very well educated and in high executive positions, if your man cheated on you...you should look in the mirror at yourself, we don't drag them into a situation. If they stray..my dear it's because of you.

you know you will get alot of shit for that, but you are right, i was the ow in a long relationship, we lived together for years, he was broke, couldn't pay all he was suppose to and that wore down our relationship too, i do feel bad for what i did to his wife but at the time i didn't think of her or their children, all i heard was how much he didn't love her anymore and that i was the "right" one for him, he even said he wished he was younger (my age) so that we would have met long ago, all bullshit, all relationships and marriages have problems but when a man goes and cheats he is running from himself not his family and they are bound to repeat it over and over, these ow will find out the hard way like i did, all i can say is let them waste their time, love and emotions because these mm will move on. i've learned (the hard and long way) they are all bad news no matter what they tell us or promise us. never again.

Hello Allison,
First I have to say I so look up to you for being able to confront your MM with questions of your future. I so need to do that but am terrified of what the response will be. Fact is I think I know what the response will be so I’m avoiding it. I also understand how you felt about him being “with” her, I think about that all the time if my MM is with her even though he says their relationship is sexless and loveless. “A struggle every day” he says. I’m afraid for him, that is a pack of lies.

Anyway, your MM said he loves you and is committed to a future with you and ending what he says is a loveless relationship with her. He has expressed his love for you and how you make him feel. These are beautiful expressions of his emotions and feelings for you. You’ve done all you can, the next move is his. It sounds as though his feelings are true, however sleeping with her so she doesn’t become suspicious concerns me just a little. If his intention is to leave her, why care at this point if she’s suspicious.

You need to continue moving ahead with plans you are making for the future and see how receptive he is to it. If he continues along with you making plans, and you can feel he is actively putting an end to their relationship then don’t pressure too much. Nothing ends nicely and leaving her will be difficult, like Jamie’s problem, she’ll put up a fight. You’ll need to be patient, understand, and listen when things get rough.

Please Allison, protect your heart. My realization is my MM is in love with her, not me, and that he only has me for satisfaction of his own ego when he needs it. I don’t want you to feel the same torment I’ve been feeling, the same hurt. He’s been up front with you, he obviously loves you and wants to be with you, patience is now what you have to have and during the difficult times, remember all the lovely times.

I hope this made sense, I’m not really in the position to give the best advise but I wanted to try and help. I’m glad you share a love with him and I’m hoping it will grow and flourish. Please do keep us posted.

Much love!
Corinne
xoxox

Obviously you’ve been hurt and for that I am sorry. I think you can see by the comments on this site, these women are NOT selfish uncaring bimbos, we are sensitive caring women who are at times being hurt as well. Yes, there is guilt being the other woman, some of us didn’t know we were the “other woman” until it was too late and our hearts were already in love. Others were told of misery and sorrow and only tried to initially lend a compassionate shoulder which turned to romance. Unfortunately no one can control who their heart falls in love with, and we have no control over being lied to by a manipulative man. Some of us do fall in love and that love is mutual ending another relationship, unfortunately hurting others.

Ultimately, none of us ever want to hurt anyone and most often become the ones being hurt. We are pursued manipulated victims as well, it is just hard for you to see it that way. There are always two sides to every story.

I’m sorry if you’ve been hurt. Please try to understand, we are hurting as well and that hurt is real and needs to be expressed. That is what the friends on this site are for, compassionate non judgmental understand for eachother. Everyone needs a friend, someone to lend a compassionate ear to them, and everyone wants to be loved. I love and admire all the women here and consider them my friends. I hope you can find peace and love in your future.

Corinne

mrs ex ow,

well first the whole, i have dedicated my life to the husband... etc is in itself not the right approach, if you do something for the other all the time, yes you will feel wronged. but if you are in the relationship because you love being there and doing what you do for the family, then you will not feel so bitter. i am divorced, and for reasons other than an ex, though he was having fun on the side. but i am not bitter about any of his women because i know there were other issues. we are human, and love is not always eternal, and in this short life it is necessary to be honest. at some point of time if the love has gone, admit it, and live with fresh hope that life and god has other plans for you. yes a lot of times men who have affairs are confused, they do not know what they want, and mistake what their real needs are, and have affairs, when they realise what their real need is, they leave the OW. so its the OW that suffers the loss, no fault of hers, she was convinced that they will have a life together...
but sometimes it really is love, and that is because the wife is no longer on the same wavelength as the husband, they are two different people who are living together out of habit, and not because they are complimenting each other... so then the man does not go back. and the wife suffers the loss.
now your husband, may be confused... but then its his problem not the woman, if not that woman, he would have found another... if not that he would have found a whore... but its not the OW you should be venting your anger at...
yes sometimes there may be a very aggressive woman, who will run after the man, for that, the man has to be a celebrity or very rich... otherwise its very rare.
i know it hurts and its better if you found something to be angry at, but please not here, we are the once where the wifes have an upper hand :-), so we are suffering... some of us have let go, and trying to move on with life.
but the truth that binds us is we all fell in love, love which is strong and deep. before i fell in love with my mm there were three men at different times who were good friends and tried to cross the boundries, i had not hesitated for a moment to put an end to the friendship, till the air cleared up. when me and my MM came together, i did not even see it coming, it just fell into place!!! and it was so beautiful.
so find your peace, take your husband to a councellor if he agrees, sort your issues out. and live life with positive energy, that will have the most positive impact on your children... they will for the rest of their lives love you and your strength.

wishing you well

dali

Hi Corinne

Thanks for the advice and I totally agree with you. It's really out of my hands right now as you say. It's funny you say to "protect your heart". I feel myself pulling away from him now, I thought with time, I know it's only been 2 weeks that the feeling would go away but honestly it has changed me, and the feelings I have for him. It wasn't bravery either that made me ask more like..I can't feel any worse so I might as well cut my losses and ask. I don't even know if what he said is true, or because he was afraid of me leaving him..he is always saying that and he repeated over and over that night.."your gonna leave me, your gonna leave me"..sometimes I think that's what he truly wants.

Last week when we spent the day together, that whole issue was brought up again and I said it still hurts me..this time I said imagine if the shoe was on the other foot wouldn't hurt you.

This week has been very hard for me, I am in my "run away" mode again like I do with all my past relationships. Just seems so easy for me to just vanish.
I am keeping busy with work and I am not going to be just "available" for him.
I think it's time he started to feel like I do, something slipping away.

I'll keep you posted if anything further happens.

I hope your holding up great, you sound clearer to me, I am here to support you so hang in there. Lots of love Allison.
XOXOXO

Hi Allison,
I'm glad I could be some sort of help, if only to be a shoulder to lean on or an ear to listen. I know how you are hurting, and letting go seems so impossible doesn't it? I don't know what it is about our MM that has such a strong hold on us but I do know trying to break away from it is so difficult and painful. I do want you to protect your heart! I unfortunately let myself fall so deeply into my MM's web that my pain level is almost unbearable at times. I still haven't heard from him, not since the early Monday call of "don't mail anything today and I'll call you at lunchtime". We'll 3 lunchtimes have gone by for him since then and not a word. He knows how him not calling me makes me crazy and how badly it hurts so I'm only left to assume he wants me to hurt, which in turn hurts more. Does that make sense? Anyway, I really don't want you to hurt that way.

It seems obvious your MM does truly love you, he just needs to find his way and decide which way that is. It my be towards you, in which case I'd be so happy for you, but if it isn't, I'm here for you and can understand how you are feeling. At this point, while you are waiting and being patient, try and remember the happy times and good feelings because the bad stuff seems to make waiting so much more hurtful, and unfortunately the bad stuff is so much easier to remember and harp on. I don't know why that is but it seems to be the way. So every time you have a bad thought or memory, think of a good one whether it be a moment, a comment, or a feeling, block out the bad until you have a clearer understanding of the direction you are going with your man.

I'm so hoping things go well for you, you are a beautiful person, inside and out! You deserve all the love and happiness in the world.

I'll continue holding on and trying to turn this hurt around. I have to let go of him, he's obvioulsy let go of me. One thing that keeps bothering me is how can he not care we have a daughter together. I should never have told him about her, but I just don't understand why he just doesn't care. 17 years I waited for the right time to tell him and he really made me feel like that time was finally now for us, I was so very wrong. I'm glad she doesn't know about him, I'll NEVER tell her. She adores the man she calls daddy, and he's been a wonderful daddy to her. She never has to know about this bastard I love for some reason that has hurt me so badly for so very long.

Anyway, I don't want to go on about me, I've been round that block to often lately. Be happy Allison, breath deeply when things seem to go badly or when your mind wonders into a bad place, sometimes that helps. Keep hanging in there! You know I love you!

Much love!
Corinne
XOXO

Hello ladies,
Somehow I hit submit on my first attempt at typing this and the message was blank, sorry about that.

Oh ladies, I'm having quite a low moment. Almost 4:30 here and day 3 of no word from my MM. I feel so sad, lonely and lost without him. You'll be glad to know I haven't rang his phone or called his work, nope, not even once. That in itself was a very hard task, being an old habit, but I've done it and I continue to fight my demons which are screaming CALL HIM.

I'm just so in love with this man. I've kept a kind of diary about him since about last August and I was shocked to see some of the painful sorrowful feelings he's given me. Honestly there wasn't really but a few happy thoughts in the entire diary. It made me wonder what I'm doing pining over this man who has hurt me so badly over the last 4 months or so, but I could also see in my words the deep sincere love I have for him. It was painful to read it, but therapeutic I suppose.

I pray, constantly, for this love to be removed from my heart, for this pain to ease. I'm waiting. I can't help but say I really wish he'd call. Stupid I know, but the honest truth. I know he's with her, they are likely having a beautiful "make up" romance and he just hasn't told me. I can almost see him stroking her face and hair telling her how much he's missed, how much he loves her and how he never wants to lose her again. God just thinking that makes me cry and see everything he told me before was nothing but a damn lie. I'm so heart broken.

Missing him is becoming to much to handle at the moment. Why did he fill me up with so many lies of wanting me, loving me, begging me to be with him as recently as this past Sunday and then just disappear. I'm lost and confused. What's wrong with me?

Thank you, I needed to vent.

Much Love,
Corinne
xoxoxo

You should be taking your trip in 4 more days Dali if you plans haven't changed, I'm so excited for you. I pray you have a wonderful, loving, romantic, and happy time.

I can't wait to hear all about it. Please enjoy.

Much love
Corinne
xoxo

Yes who the hell do you think you are? WE do not destroy marriages...technically its you two. Don't blame the OW because your marriaged failed. Communication is a key tool that YOU TWO both lacked!

Maybe if you were keeping your husband happy in the first place..(by not forgetting how to be a great wife) this wouldn't of happened to you. M.M don't leave there wives for something new in bed..they leave because they are miserable. Your husband did what he had to do because he was unhappy and wanted to meet someone that made him feel the way a MAN should feel. It doesnt mean that he abandoned his children, they will always be there, and he will always love them. That is such a copout!

Your trying to validate something that isn't there anymore. He obviously wasnt happy with you (hmmm I can see why) so maybe it's best you move on also! Time and time again the "first wives club" always refers to the OW as automatically ruining a "happy go lucky" marriage. BULLSHIT!

Do you think for a moment that all of us women wake up every morning and say: "Hmmm..I want a married man..who's my next victim??" C'mon..wake up and smell the coffee!

Hi Corinne-

I hope everything is going well with you. You seem alot stronger, and in time I think its going to get alot easier coping with your feelings for this man. Im so proud that you havent given in to the phone! We've all been there and that is very hard to not give in to that temptation. He will eventually call..they always do, just be strong hunny!

I read that you have a diary since August. That in itself should make you stronger because if you refer back to those months it was alot harder for you, and just think...you made it through those difficult times. Eventually its going to get easier as the days go by.

My personal situation is alot better (so I think). You know me, Im very pessimistic and always think somethings going to turn for the worse. This past fall my M.M told me that he and his wife were 100% done, so I was very content. Then a short time after that I noticed he was stressed out big time. He actually broke out into hives! We went out to dinner and I asked him to tell me what was wrong. As soon a he said "Well, let me be honest with you"..my heart sank.

He told me that she wanted to reconcile. I asked him if he wanted to go back to her and he said "He didn't know". I was torn. What do you mean you "dont know?" What about all the " You make me sooo happy, I love you's, etc" So all this time I would of been oblivious I thought to myself. He said he missed his children so damn much, that it wasnt her at all. He actually cannot stand her, but I never believed him when he said that. So we sat (I cried) and told him that he would be going back for the wrong reasons. You come to a point where you don't care anymore.

I told him if that's what he wanted to do..do it. He's a grown man and he can't seem to understand the confusion between love and comfortability. He was very comfortable for many years in a family oriented enviornment. He doesnt have that anymore, so I can understand how lonely in that aspect he feels. I can relate to that, so it makes it alot easier for me to understand him. I hope I'm not confusing you all out there! :)

We were in neutral for a couple months, and I was more insecure then ever. This would cause us to argue. It pisses me off because we never fight about OUR own problems, we never have any. It always has something to do with the soon to be "X".

My main concern is how he hid that from me. If I would of never probed him, he wouldn't of told me about the reconciliation. Say if he went?...was he going to leave me high and dry without and explaination. This is what he doesnt understand. I want him to be 100% honest with me, regardless of the pain.

Does this make any sense? Maybe im just babbling..Im confused!

I just hope all of us find our OWN closures and peace with all of this! I love you all and wish you all the strength in the world :)

xoxoxo
Jamie

Hi Allison-

Your story is all to familiar to me! Remember last month when I said that day will come. Yours is coming trust me. Unfortunately there's going to be alot more discussions now about him leaving the wife. It seems that he loves so much and he doesnt want you out of his life. He's made it clear that he wants to leave and from what it sounds like you are content with that.

My M.M's X was the same frigging way. She drained his accounts, spent money like it grew on trees, and just treated him like piece of garbage. She was never sexual with him..who the hell in their right mind would want to stay with someone like that??

Once again it all comes back to being so comfortable in a disfunctional marriage. The children of course play a huge role in all of this. But one day your M.M is going to wake up and see that there is something so much nicer for him and that is YOU!

It may take a little while, but it will happen hun. Trust me! I dont know if your impatient like myself, I couldnt take it anymore. Are his children little? My M.M's children were young, not too young..regardless its always hard for a man to leave. What they dont seem to understand is they ARE NOT abandoning their children, there leaving their wife.

My M.M had his guilt episodes everyday. To be honest with you all, I dont even think his children care. The X always says that they do (because thats her only attack), but they call him everyday (I listen) and they are fine. He actually spends more time with them because of the separation, so all in all, its great.

Allison I wish you happiness and you will get through this confusing time. Remember, things happen for a reason ladies!!!

Love you lots,
xoxoxo
Jamie

Well put!

Jamie, I hope you can see my note from Monday to you.

I hope all is well!

Love ya!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hi Corinne-

Well I just read your letter to me and you know how I feel about your M.M. I dont like him...Im sorry! I dont like how he's hot one minute, cold the next. It's not fair to you, but I do understand that you love him. That's what makes it so difficult, because your looking back at the loving, caring man he once was and hoping that will suddenly change back.

Do you ever flip out on him? If you havent, you need to make him understand that you are not a doormat for his "bipolar" feelings. I wish more than anything (and everyone will agree w/me) that you could find the courage to move on from him. Do you two every see each other much? Im just lost when he tells you that one day you can call..and then if you do..he gets mad..etc.

I would just be honest with him and say "What the hell is going on?" He's not a mind-reader hun, so if you don't bring any of this to his attention he's never going to know.

Perfect analogy:
When you fake an orgasm with your partner constantly, and he thinks he's getting you off all the time.

...Forgive me with my bluntness..but it's sort of the same thing. :) A man is so dense when it comes to their feelings. If you pretend that everything is O.K, and he's doing the right thing, he's going to continue this path of abuse.

Maybe I'm way off, I just think you SERIOUSLY need to talk to him about how he makes you feel. Tell him what you tell us (in a sense/not everything of course)tell him that you miss the man he was and it bothers you to see him like this because you love him so much. Dont hide your feelings from him, what do you have to lose at this point? NOTHING.

Instead of just up and leaving him, I think you should talk with him..DO IT CORINNE AND YOU WILL FEEL THE WEIGHT LIFTED OFF YOUR SHOULDERS!!!

I love you hunny and your always in my thoughts, YOU ARE SUCH AN INCREDIBLE PERSON AND A FRIEND!

xoxoxo
Jamie

Maybe I was a bit abrasive, it just makes me upset how the wife always thinks its us, you know?? :)
Jamie

Hi Jamie,
God it's wonderful to hear from you. It does sound like in the fall you had a bumpy start, but after Christmas and the new year I'm so glad things are going so well! I'm so so happy for you! I am a horrible pessimist as well, but looking at your situation from my point of view, you are definitely on the road to a beautiful future. You know nothing ends nicely and I'm sure he was and maybe still is feeling the pressure of missing the kids, but in time that will all work out once their divorce proceedings are finalized. Hold on, keep being patient, and always keep the love and romance alive between the two of you. I believe he didn't tell you about the reconciliation because it truly wasn’t something he wanted, he was only tone about it because of missing the kids. Once all proceedings are done things will smooth out, including set times he’ll see the kids, which will ease his mind tremendously.

Please keep me/us posted on how things are going along. I think about you all the time and continuing praying for a happy loving future for you both.

Today, my mm called me. I was so very surprised, and not quite sure if I was happy about it. He of course told me how much he misses me and wants me. He says how miserable things are with her, that she’s always angry about something and watches him like a hawk. He talked about me living there and how wonderful it would be to be together. You know all those things make me melt. I tried so hard to be very platonic in the conversation but I did tell him I love him and have missed him. I told him he knows how difficult it is for me to go days not hearing from him, wondering what happened. He just says “I know, sorry, I thought about you too”. I just wanted to scream “THEN WHY NOT CALL ME, WHERE THE HELL WERE YOU”. Of course I didn’t say that, me and the path of least resistance you know. He said he had to go and he loves me and we said good night. So up goes the rollercoaster for the time being. Is it really I ride I can continue on or should continue on? My heart wants to but my head keeps saying get the hell out while you still can. I’m a confused mess.

Lets continue to keep in touch. I hope you are making some romantic plans for Valentine’s Day. I’d love to hear all about them.

Much love!
Corinne

Hey Jamie

Thanks for the response, he has a daughter who is almost 2 and a son who he adores is 5. So yes they are young, very young and he always tells me the same old if it wasn't for the kids thing he would of been gone along time ago..
He really doesn't have a relationship with the girl because she is too young but as she grows and changes daily I am sure that will change.

I really don't think I stand a chance, all the odds are stacked up against me it seems. I know he loves me, but I just can't see him leaving her, as tough as he protrays himself and "in the moment" he thinks he can, but then he goes home night after night and lives the normal daddy life.

It might be this week because we have spent zero time together and I feel myself disconnecting. Trying not to feel, you describe this and it seems I am following exactly in your footsteps..weird isn't it..

NOW...how are things with you ? Is he more confirmed with you, I didn't like the sound of your last email...

I entirely agree with Jamie.
You should blame yourself in the first place. If something went wrong in your marriage it's not the OW to blame. Something was wrong before he met her, be sure of that. Of course I'm sorry if you're going through a bad time. But believe me the other woman is not stealing your husband. Because he was already gone and probably for a long time.
I don't have a great experience with MM, I avoid them whenever possible, I know many of them who are just out there looking for some adventures to spice up their lives and I really despise them. But some of them are really unhappy. Take my MM for instance, he doesn't have a sexual life with his wife, she stopped having sex with him soon after their son was born. She admitted that she didn't like to have sex with him anymore. So what was he supposed to do? And you know what, even if he's not really happy with her because aside from sex they live on two different planets, apparently they have nothing in common apart their daily routine, well he will never ever leave her. Yes she's like a sister but they a have a son and a commitment. And they come first. So there you go, as you can see it's not that the only purpose of our live is to chase other women's husbands and if you had bothered to read the posts here, you would have seen yourself how unhappy we are. Most of us end up alone and broken hearted and you know why? Because the MM crushed by guilt or divorce costs go back to his wife. So before patronizing us with all that you-must-feel-guilty stuff, try to understand where you both failed. If you do have a husband, well it's your business to keep him happy. Of course this is true for women also. Because women do the same, if they're not happy with their lives and men, they try to find what's missing elsewhere. Women are tougher. And there is nothing wrong with that, we all need to feel loved, desired and appreciated.
And one more thing, I don't think that a man who cheats on his wife will always be cheating. Because, as I said above, some are natural-born cheaters but they are quite easy to unmask, but others are really trying to give a sense to their lives. So it's up to you, you can either try to win him back or move on. In the first case, make sure to fill the gaps otherwise he will cheat on you again. And nobody could blame him.

For the other ladies here, I hope you are all ok. I'm still living in a sort of limbo, we are together without being together. We don't want to let each other go but we are afraid to meet.
I'm afraid we have reached the point where we can either reconcile or drift apart. He said I'm the one who has to make a decision, we are both torn. A part of us wants to go back together and a part of us wants to leave things as they are.
What do you say?
Love to you all
lillybit

Hi Lilybit

I know it sounds cliche but if he loves you he has to committ to a life with you sooner or later, I mean if my MM flat out said that there is NO hope for us I would of ended it. Sure it hasn't happened yet, and believe me even though I haven't put a time limit, something gotta to give.

If it makes you happy and complete to get back together,do it, he needs to work towards having a life with you. Like Jamie said, sooner or later they wake up and smell the coffee, sometimes you need to bring the cup to their attention.

If he is worth it, don't give up. This is your life too, do what makes you happy. If there are more happy moments than sad, maybe that's a sign.

Hang in there and keep us posted.

Hi Corinne & Jamie...

Oh my goodness Jamie you are so right, men are totally dense when it comes to their feelings for instance this week it happened to me..have you ladies ever seen that movie "The Breakup" with Jennifer Anniston...if not, she breaks up with him, in order to get him back, which backfires because in the end he just needed to hear what she felt, then realized he loved her, she was spent and left anyways.

Well Ladies, I am proof that Jamie's theory is true. All week I have been upset that me & my MM have had zero time together, and I even purposely got busy to make him miss me. I felt like crap through the whole thing.

The first thing this morning, he came to see me and asked what's wrong, and why have I been so distant. He thinks I was the one...meanwhile I thought he had no time for me. He was worried that the fact I was distant was because of us and that he couldn't understand why I can't communicate how I feel.

Tell him how you feel...it will make you feel better..

Hello Jamie,
You know sometimes this site posts messages in an odd order so I get confused on what I've read and what I haven't. So I just read this one from you. You know you made me cry and I hope you know I love you too.

I do know you don't like my MM, you know sometimes I don't much like him either, and I agree with you, he is a complete shit to me most of the time. I'm afraid I haven't been to aggressive with him or upfront about my feelings per say, but he knows how I feel. Whenever I question what is going on, or why he says he feels one thing one day and something completely different the next, he just says "don't start" or "you know I love you, you make me tell you all the time". Those were comments he made on his bad days. The worst comments were "you know what you'll be when you're hear (meaning the other woman)if you don't like it, oh well". That was that Wednesday after I lied to him about the other man he thought I was with (for him). It's comments like that, that make me very gun shy to say anything else. I know I should, maybe I'm just afraid I know what the outcome will be. Part of me wants to be the one to say "f**k off" before he does (if that is what he really wants, I just don't know) and I just haven't gotten the nerve yet, my heart loving him and all so much. I know he knows how I feel and how I get upset, I just feel like he has me walking on egg shells. I'm pathetic aren't I.

As for your question of do we see eachother much. No, not face to face at all. You see its complicated. I'll try to explain briefly our situation. We lived in the same state back in the late 80's, I was 21. We had a beautiful 2 year affair full of so much romance and passion and then he moved away with is 1st wife and child. I got pregnant the very last time I was with him (which I have to say was the most beautiful love making I’ve ever experienced. Very beautiful and romantic) and decided that the child and I would be to much of a complication on the "new" life he set out for with his family so I stayed with the man I was with, and still am today. That is the man my daughter calls daddy and no one knows differently. The man I'm married to is emotionally abusive and very angry at times but a wonderful father, which is why I’m still with him today. My MM and I kept contact every year on a fairly regular basis several times a year, he never actually told me he loved me until about a year after he moved away. His first marriage dissolved 10 years ago, at the same time he hooked up and immediately lived with the woman he’s married to now (she too was his “other woman”). He NEVER actually told me (in all the years we’d talked) that he had remarried until last spring when we started talking on daily basis, but he’s been married almost 5 years. He even denied it when I asked him a couple of years ago after I saw their names on the internet. When his first marriage broke up he’d asked me (over the telephone 10 years) to marry him, but I couldn’t move to him, my 2nd child was just a toddler at the time. So we still kept contact, he married her and so on. We live in different states about 500 miles from eachother and haven’t seen eachother face to face in 17 years. Hard to believe I know, but the truth. I’ve always loved him so deeply and always looked for the right time to tell him about our girl, but the time never seemed right until this past spring/summer. Now I’m sorry I ever told him. Then our conversations became sour and here I am. We’ve had many hours of beautiful conversation, at least in the beginning, and good phones sex but that’s it.

So do I look even more pathetic then I did before? This man has been a huge, secret, part of me for 20 years. I’ve always loved him so deeply and dreamed of a time we’d finally be together again, as he said, or claimed, he did too. I’m lost thinking of actually not having him in my heart and not being able to talk to him.

As for your comment about being too harsh to the “wifey”, I don’t think you were. She doesn’t belong on this site any more then we belong on the “first wives club” site. She’s hurt and was obviously searching the internet to lash out at someone.

I just realized I think that makes me even more pathetic, I’m the other woman stuck between the first and second wife and maybe I’m not good enough for him compared to either one of them. However, compared to the second wife, I was here first, life was just too complicated for me to become the second wife. That is either funny or sad, I’m not sure, and may be a blessing in descise. I hope this story doesn't make you disgusted with me.

Jamie, you’ve made me feel wonderful and I smiled and laughed today for the first time in a long time. I love you so very much, you’re such a great friend. I love knowing your relationship is flourishing and can’t wait to hear more.

Do keep in touch!
Much love
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hi Corinne,

I just have time to read a few postings and write a few quick ones in reply. I'm not totally caught up on everyone's messages, but as I was reading this one about why your MM keeps stringing you along, well, the word that jumps out at me is EGO. Your MM has a tiny tiny ego (this is at least part of the problem). I mean you feed his self esteem, all of the attention you spend on him, the attention you could be spending more profitably for yourself and your own advancement, well, it just inflates his ego...makes him feel attractive, appealing and so powerful that he can reduce a lovely woman like you to utter and complete dependency. The other problem with your MM is a weak character. If he had a good character, there's no way he'd be doing what he's doing with you. Anyway, I'm not saying these things as criticisms, just observations, for whatever they're worth. I know as well as you do that it's all fine and good that we can see and observe what kinds of problems we're dealing with, but it's a whole different story when we try to deal with the problems and set things right. It's so hard, but here we are and I guess it's what we're all facing together. I often think good and hopeful thoughts for you, wishing you well as I'm seeing the sights around here and filling my life, as much as possible, with distractions (healthier activities than sitting around thinking about my MM's next move). Every day is a battle, some days will inevitably go better than others, but I'm really proud of us all .
xoxo, stn

Hi Ladies,
I just wanted to write a quick note. I need to get some thoughts out of my head, otherwise they just keep running around and around my head until I feel sick and dizzy. I'm looking at my situation from outside my situation these days and what I see hurts me. I see a woman who can't find a man she loves, I see a man who will try to get that woman's attention and sustain it at any cost to the woman, because he needs the attention and affection of women to feel like a man, and he needs to feel powerful at the woman's expense, he needs to be able to take without giving in order to feel things are 'on the right foot'. I see a man who thinks he loves this woman and the woman think she loves the man. I'm not talking about Corinne, I'm talking about myself and my own situation...but I could be talking about a lot of us. At the end of the day, I find myself wondering if this is love. How can something like that be love? But so many women and so many men fit this pattern. Even couples in 'successful' marriages follow this pattern, I see it everywhere. The women see so much more than the men, they understand the dynamics of the relationships they're in, they see what needs to be done to make things work and the men control everything and ignore all of the womens' insights and attempts at communication. I want to know if there's something better that we can hope for in life than this? Is this all there is?
xoxo, stn

Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to write one more quick note. I'm having a rough day and just wanted someone to talk to. What's bothering me is how my mind is failing me when it comes to this matter of my heart. I know what I need to do, I need to let go completely and without reservation, and yet part of me is still hooked on trying to maintain my attachment. I want to get rid of my attachment, I know in my head that I should and yet today I found myself shaking all over after writing the last message I posted here. Just the thought of this subject, my situation with my MM, has left me feeling scared to death and I'm not ever sure of what...it seems like some kind of irrational fear, it's vague...I guess it's just me getting used to the idea that he's really not going to be a big part of my life they way I'd like...or maybe it's me getting used to not having any positive reassurances from him on a regular basis. I came to need them desperately somehow. I've been okay and even good while I've been away from him, but something happened today and I'm not even sure where it came from. It felt like a kick in my stomach and I've been shaky every since. My happiness that was saving me yesterday evaporated this morning. That dark, empty, cold feeling I have when I'm missing my MM has come back and it's taken over. I smile, I talk, I go through the motions and interactions of my day as if nothing's bothering me, but I feel that I have no heart for anything anymore. I just have the feeling in the pit of my stomach that I'm hurt, I'm lonely and I'm scared...and I'm lost. It must be PMS time.... My heart is still broken and I don't have the energy to pick myself up today. I'm sad.
love, stn

Hi Again,
I guess I'm going a little nuts. I'm trying to decide whether or not I should contact my MM for a 'fix' ... just to feel better for a little while. I've been strong and have gone a long time without one, since December actually. Yesterday I took a boat trip down the river here and realized that I can do all kinds of wonderful things to make my life nicer, but in the end, there's going to be a really big void in it if I don't maintain some kind of contact with him. I think this is bad for me on one level. I should learn to live without him completely, and just stay friends on a fairly casual basis, without needs or attachments or dependency involved. But I also don't want to spend my days feeling sick in my heart because I'm avoiding him. Hmphf.
I'm not sure which way to go on this one.
I had a dream about him the other night. I dreamt that he was fat, ugly and super old, and the whole time (during the dream), I kept getting mad at myself wondering why I still loved him. I don't know why I love a man who offers me less than nothing. I don't know why I love a man who takes so much more than he gives, and worse, doesn't even value what I give to our 'relationship'. I mean, I've overlooked so very many of his mistakes, so many unforgivable acts he's committed, I've let them go and he has no idea what it's taken for me to be able to do this. Of course I haven't forgotten all of what he's done, that stuff plays over and over in my mind like a broken record, but I've made it clear to myself and to him that all of his horrible behavior towards me isn't something I am holding him accountable for, I'm just trying to take it at face value, I'm trying to make myself use the information to judge my situation better and figure out how to handle it, but I don't want him to 'pay' for the mistakes he's made. I think the problem here is that I was hoping he'd see how deeply he's hurt me, how much he's forced me into a very bad position (I know I had a hand in it too, don't get me wrong), and I was hoping he'd be able to see that I overcame so much anger in order to be able to maintain our friendship at least. But he doesn't see these things, he just keeps wanting to be able to behave however he pleases and he wants me to keep accepting it. Since he doesn't get anything (of course he thinks he's got all the answers, macho jerk that he can be), I don't want this situation for myself and now I feel like I have to choose: I have to decide to keep things going as they are, without him understanding much of how he's contributed and keeps contributing to my pain or I have to let go of even more than I set out to let go of. I'll have to let it all go if I don't want him to keep having this power over me. Maybe only then will the time be right for us to get along better, interact in a healthier way. Maybe this is what I've been inching myself towards all along. My head's in a fog right now, I can't see clearly. I look back on my old messages on here and I like the person I was when I wrote them. Right now I feel weak and confused, I hope the feeling will pass. I guess it has to, it always does. Writing here helps me sort the thoughts out. I'm not sure why I've slipped into this funk, it really took my by surprise. I know it's all in my head, the only thing that matters these days is what I think since I don't have to see him now. But my thoughts and feelings are in conflict with each other. Everything's been jumbled and I don't know if I'm coming or going. The weather is pretty cold here, I met a man on the metro last night who told me his life's story. Maybe this is what set me off. The tale he told didn't give me much hope or faith in life, it left me thinking and feeling that we all just struggle in the end. All of our struggles are different, and they may not be visible to anyone but ourselves, but that's what it seems to boil down to. We all get a few moments of joy in life and then for every moment of joy, we get 80 hours of struggling. Please tell me there's something better to hope for than that.
Love, STN

My dear friend STN,
So wonderful to hear from you. I read all your posts. I’m sorry you are having your lost moments. It amazes me the similarities in our situations. I laughed a little inside when you said “I’m not talking about Corinne, I’m talking about myself” because you are right, we are feeling and going through the same hurt and torment. Unfortunately for us there isn’t anything laughable about it. I know about your thoughts running around and around in your head making you sick and dizzy, I feel that constantly. There are times I get a stabbing pain in my chest that is so intense I stop dead in my tracks, kneel down and can’t breath. My MM has torn me apart piece by piece. I’m so sad and sorry to hear you are feeling these things.

Keeping busy does help and you are in such a beautiful place. I’m praying that in time you’ll see the beautiful things life has to offer you, and all the promise that is ahead, then you can put the past and this love behind you. As you have told me, remember the beautiful times you had together and try to hold on to them. If calling your MM will keep your sanity for a quick fix, then do it. Hearing his voice and talking to him may help you realize you are moving on. Slowly you can limit the calls one by one until you don’t need them anymore. Do this with caution though. As you know my MM and I have had this long distance thing going for years and now that our daily phone calls have dwindled to maybe once a week I find the anguish of waiting for him to call is unbearable, then we talk for 30 minutes and I feel wonderful, then 20 minutes after that reality smacks me in the face again and the pain of wondering if that was the last time I’ll ever hear his voice is that stabbing pain. So, do what you need to calm your mind and heart but proceed with that cautiously, don’t hurt yourself.

I’m finding myself at a loss for any valuable advise. I am reeling with the anguish of my MM and can’t seem to piece together a viable or worthy thought. I didn’t hear from him at all this weekend, which being the pessimist I am, only leads me more to believe he’s worked things out beautifully with his wife and they are moving forward towards a happy future. Even though he’s told me she’s been hateful, his kids don’t like her, she “checks up” on him all the time, constantly looking over his shoulder and that nothing has changed from before. He says they are “roomies” and nothing else. And yet, we hardly ever get to talk now but once a week. I’m lost and so broken because he tells me how he needs me, wants me, asked me not to turn down a job offer I have from his area, tells me how lost he gets in my eyes in a picture I sent him, then disappears. He’ll say “you know I call you when I can” but that is next to never any more. We went from multiple times a day to once a week for maybe 30 minutes. If they are working it out and everything is fine then fine, I’m happy for him, but let me go then. Why does he lead me on this damn leash he has me on making me believe I’m the one? If saying good bye is appropriate he should just do it, sure I’ll be a melted puddle for a good while but then I can move on, this rollercoaster is torture and I can’t seem to get myself off. I’m sad and broken all the time and wonder how can I survive this. I pray every day for this love and feeling to be taken from my heart. The pain and agony is becoming way too much for me to bear and at times I feel I can’t hold on any longer. I’m a lost and broken image of the woman I used to be. This man has shattered the woman I used to be. Shattered me with lies of loving me, wanting to be together, dreams of a future that will never be. Why would someone do that to another human being, rats are treated with more decency.

I agree with you that this site and all our friends here are a blessing and I’m so grateful to be able to put my feelings here, I have no one else to open up to without fierce judgment and harsh criticism. The people around me now are constantly asking if I’m ok, and what’s wrong. My agony must be written all over my face and I can’t speak a word of it.

I love you STN and I pray for you ever day. I pray for you to find peace with yourself, happiness for your future, and love for your heart. It was wonderful to hear from you again, please do keep posting.

Much Love,
Corinne
xoxo

Hello ladies,
I’m sorry, I’m having a lost moment/hour/day. It has been since Thursday that I’ve spoken to my MM. It is so unusual not to speak at least on a weekend, in fact in 10 months there have only been 2 weekends we didn’t speak, Christmas and New Years. Now we’ve only spoken 11 out of the last 30 days. When I spoke with him then he’d asked why I stopped calling the house from work, he said he checks the phone as soon as he gets home and is surprised when he doesn’t see my “out of area”. So, I made the mistake of trying to make him happy by calling on Friday. He answered quickly and said “she’s home but not right now” “I have 2 seconds”. I said how are you, he said “I’ll call you later”. I said love you, he said “Bye”. Yeah, you guessed it, I crumbled, and as usual, “later” never came. 5 of our usual times to talk today have passed with only one left and I haven’t heard from him. My mind is wrecked, my heart is broken. I’m always terrified that the last time I spoke to him is the last.

Thursday’s conversation was beautiful, full of how much he feels for me, wants me, needs me. Was that my last conversation with him or will he call again. I’m terrified the answer is no.

I’m sorry I seem to have lost my grip on sanity today, perhaps it is the up and down he puts me through, my heart just can’t take it anymore. I love him ladies, how can I stop that and end this pain.

I love you all!
Much love!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hi ladies,
it seems we're all going through a very confused phase these days. All our resolutions seem a bit shaky. We're torn in two, a part of us, the rational and healthy one, keeps telling us that for our own good we have to get rid of these pointless relationships and engage ourselves in more constructive things, whereas our emotional part is still sticking to our MM and refuses to let him go. I'm sure we're all aware that in a way or another these men are quite selfish.
STN, from what I gather from your previous posts, the man you love is not only married but he has been seeing other women as well. You describe him as a very successful and attractive man. I think men like him are too self-centered and often unable to return the love they are given. But being rejected by a brilliant woman like you is something he can't accept, especially if the decision wasn't up to him.
The same is partly true for Corinne as well. It seems that your man is playing games with you, he's the cat and you're the mouse and he turns you around as he pleases, one day he makes you feel in heaven and the next he crushes you. I have a question though: how did he react when you told him of your daughter? Did he panic? Has he changed since then? Wow, I really think you're great and I think of the burden you've carried all alone for all these years. You must have gone through very hard times.
As for my MM, he's a nice guy, but I'm here just to fill his gaps. And to provide him a full and satisfactory life. For the past 18 months he had his cake and ate it too.
STN and Corinne do you think you will ever have a chance to live with the MM you love? And if you were given this chance, would you do that? I'm not sure I would. Not because I don't love him, but I'm also aware of the emotional baggage he would carry with him and I'm pretty sure he would be crushed by guilt, hence back to his wife in a matter of days if not hours.
I haven't seen him for a month but we're going to meet on Friday. Why do I do that? Because I need to understand what my feelings are. I need to know if I still love him or if things have cooled down. As I said, I'm torn in two, part of me still wants him but the other one is angry at him (and at myself)and I need to find out which is the prevailing part.
I understand both of you when you say that you miss him and I admire the effort you're both doing to try not to call him or meet him. I'm feeling very weak and stupid, I mean why don't I give him up once forever? I'm confident that seeing him will help me to make up my mind and to see things in a clear way. At least this is what I keep telling myself.
Lots of love to both of you
Lillybit

Piece by piece I take apart
This complicated heart
And I hope to find
Something I can prove is real
I can feel is truth
I can say is mine
Thats all I ever wanted to be!
The closer that I got
The further I could see
But when lovers change
And the night feels strange
We choose our road
The letting go

I saw this in part of a lyric and had to post it. I’m trying to let go and make today another day one. My Mm called this morning, a quick call from work. He didn’t speak much, people around him I guess. He claimed they had a visitor from her family this weekend and couldn’t call. Whatever, I have a feeling he knew I was calling yesterday afternoon, egnored me then, and called this morning to give me some reason why I can’t call his house for the time being while the guest is still there. He figures I’ll obay him and wait on baited breath for his next call “whenever he can”.

At the moment I’m tired of it. You know if he’s worked things out with her and things now are going fine, fine then. Just tell me for crying out loud. I don’t understand the hanging me out on a string thing he’s got going on. Part of me doesn’t want to know things are great with them and they are making love and happy because I know how much that will hurt, but the other part of me is so sick and tired of feeling so sick and tired all the time. I love this man, I don’t think anything will change that even though I pray every night for this love and feeling to be taken from my heart, but I want to move on. One way or another, I have to.

So, perhaps this was his last call (which I think was to shut me up for now), and maybe I can accept that as YES, things are going well for them instead of actually hearing the words. I don’t know. I’m feeling a little stronger today I just don’t recognize if that is because I heard his voice or if I am letting go.

I think of you ladies every day and am praying for your happiness. Dali should be on her trip now, I hope she’s having a wonderful time.

STN, please do keep in touch! I worry for you and pray for you always. I know you’ll find the happiness you are looking for. It may be right in front of you, you just haven’t seen it yet.

Allison, Danielle Jordan, Jamie; you are all my greatest friends and confidants. I look forward to your next posts.

Wish me luck in continuing to feel stronger every day. I know I need to rid myself of this man and the pain he is causing me. I deserve better…..right? (just kidding, I know you are saying “yeah you do” right now and that is why I love you).

Keep posting!
Much Love
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hello Lillybit,
Thank you, as always, for your words of encouragement. You know, you are right, keeping the secret of our daugher for all this years has been a terrible burden and has drained me. I always hoped and prayed there would be a day I could tell him, a time when we'd be together. It seemed over the years there was always something going on that prevented me from telling him. I wish I hadn't told him now. He made me believe he had true and strong feeling of love and devotion for me. He lied. When I told him, he didn't panic, he said things like he'd like to give her a big hug, send her holiday cards, asked if she was beautiful (she's an angle). He said he missed out on alot and that it made him feel closer to me. That was the day I told him, since then he mentioned her once or twice, NEVER askes anything about her like who she is or what she's like. He's said he'd like to give me another one some time soon. Little things like that, but not often.

Today I realized that for the last month he's been slowly doing things to push me away. Telling me he's been busy, been with his kids, she's home, people are visiting, working overtime and so on. All reason's to either not have been able to call me or to insure I don't call him. I'm completely blocked out from contacting him and can only sit around waiting for his next call. If it's over, which it seems it is, he should just end it then. Say it and get it over with. I'll be wounded for sure, which I know you understand, but then at least I'll be able to move on. I think he's afraid of that, I think he's truly afraid I'll pull some sort of fatal attraction thing on him or something. I don't think he cares at all about MY daughter, and maybe that is my fault for not telling him all these years, but at this point I don't want her to know or care about him either. He's too unstable with what he wants. Just a couple years from 50 and he's so immature, and a huge manipulater. Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that I love him with my whole heart and soul. Would I go to him at this point to live with him.....I don't know, he's hurt me so much over the past few weeks that I'm almost afraid of him. Afraid I won't be his next wife or whatever, but I'll be his next broken heart (which I already am).

I'm glad you can see your MM, and have a wonderful time. The two of you share a beautiful love, cherish what happiness you have shared, that will enable you to move on. The hardest thing for me is knowing he's rejected me, that I wasn't good enough for him (twice damn it), that this MUCH younger woman won. That makes me pathetic. You are loved, cherished, and out of reach for your MM because of his obligations. That must be as equally painful for him as it is you. You are a beautiful deserving woman, you deserve someone who can not only love you with their whole heart but can also commit to a life with you. You'll find that person. Maybe, somehow, someday, that person will be your MM. You never know what fait will bring your way.

I do love you Lillybit, for all your kind words of support and friendship. Thank you for being there and giving me a kind friend and ear (or eyes in this case) to turn to. Finally after all these years I have a friend(s) to turn to in this situation.

Please do continue to write.
Much Love
Corinne
xoxo

Hi STN

Doesn't it always happen thought the slightest word, someone else's happiness can easily set you off. I know..I am going through it. It seems all my friends are moving forward in a positive light, they are all married, some with newborns and some pregnant. Then there's me, living in limbo. The only thing I can say I am so happy about is my career, that fills my day when my love life is falling apart. Which it is and it has.

The more and more I read these posts the more I realize my MM is the same as all MM. I am just a piece of a puzzle when he chooses to "fit me in". I am not the type to take it, you see I am too tough.

STN, my best advice to you take it day by day, feel shitty, feel happy but do it on your terms and see how you are daily. I think too often we think about yesterday analyze the hell out of it. We need to focus on the day and move on.
That will help make your head clearer, it has mine.
Stop looking back and stop looking forward..look now.

Hello ladies!
I'm still holding on. I didn't cry on the way to work today but I have to admit over the last few days I've done ALOT of crying. Hell, over the last month I've done alot of crying over this MM of mine. No, he hasn't called again. Many of our usual times to talk have passed, times I know he's alone and am so tempted to call him, but I haven't. I'm trying to remind myself there would be no purpose to that and would only cause me much pain in the end. I also try to remind myself of all the sacrifices I've made for this man and realize that he's done nothing for me. Well, he sent me some "sexy & erotic" things once, but that was it. I've been the one with the phone expense, travel expenses, and biggest risks to make time to talk, I've been the one available for his every becon call, I'm the pathetic one it seems.

So for the past day I've tried to convince myself that it's over. He won't call again (for whatever reason) and I should try not to take that too personally. I was only an enabler to him, he never loved me he only used me and needed me to satisfy his sick little fantasies and perversion, to make him feel good about himself. Realizing all this is like slapping myself in the face, and it hurts. The good thing is, it's also making me angry, so angry at him for turning me into this weak little thing.

It's a difficult process and a definite war between my heart and my head. Day by day is all I can do and I will hopefully begin to recover from all the pain this man has caused me. Unfortunately what we want and what is to be aren't always the same thing, so we keep going......right?

I love you ladies and hope all is well with you. Allison, Lillybit, STN, keep pulling along with me, we can do it TOGETHER. Dali, I hope your trip is going wonderfully, do let us know all about it. DanielleJordan, I miss you and hope things are going well for you. Jamie, you must be having a wonderful time with your man these days, yes YOUR man. I can't wait to hear from you.

Love you ladies!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Well, it is obvious that I'm on here way too much my posts are so frequent. It is just that every hour that goes by that I usually talked to my MM and not a word from him I begin to feel weak, my knees shake and I feel sick. I keep hearing things he's said, both good and bad. The good things are certainly not as frequent as the bad but they are still there, burning a hole in my heart and in my thoughts. Why did he ever utter "I'm so in love with you", why play with my mind like that. I know, his ego, why is that so hard to accept. Why do I feel so desperate to believe he actually did/does love me.

The feeling of rejections is overwhelming. Why wasn't I good enough...again! Maybe it's my fault because I wasn't willing to run right too him while his marriage was in turmoil. Was that a mistake? Should I have put myself right in the middle of the two of them when she moved out "temporarily"? Was I wrong in assuming that it would only wind me up in the street when she returned. I don't know. I'm torturing myself at the moment, I'm sorry. The what if's and the why's are killing me.

I'm just a little lost at the moment and feeling a bit broken.

Much Love
Corinne
xoxoxo

Corinne,
please stop thinking it is/was your fault. What were you supposed to do? Leave everything and run to him just to help him through his bad time? I think you did the right thing. Do not torment yourself, you don't deserve it and he doesn't deserve it. And in any case I'm reasonably sure that he would have dumped you once she had returned. And if she hadn't returned, he would have looked for her... or for someone else.
I know that the good times are difficult to forget, they always pop up into our mind and make us forget the bad times. We should try to do the opposite, we should try to focus on the bad things and try to remember all the humiliations we had to swallow, the unpleasant things and feelings we had to go through.
This MM of yours is probably making up things with his wife and he doesn't need you now. And he doesn't even bother to be honest with you, why should he? He knows that you are there available any time he comes whining to you. I know I shouldn't say that, but this man not only doesn't love you (and I think that he's so selfish that he loves nobody but himself) but he doesn't even respect you. This should make you think, how can you respect a man like him? You told him you had a daughter from him and this left him almost indifferent. He didn't show any interest. How can you love a man like him?
I know that probably these are not the words you wanted to hear, but you are going through too much pain and this is unfair. It's time to open up your eyes and see who is the man you're in love with. I'm sure you already know that but you're hiding the truth to yourself in the name of good old times. But apparently the good times are gone forever and the sooner you accept that the better.
Allison said that the best thing to do is to stick to the present and she's right. The past is past and the future... well the future is unpredictable.
I hope I didn't hurt you but I'm so sorry to see you in such a pain and for a man who's completely worthless. I do really hope you'll get over him very soon.
As far as I'm concerned, today is the day, I'll be meeting him later this afternoon. It goes without saying that we're both very nervous.
I don't know if I did the right thing, but as I already said in my last post, I need to find out what my feelings are. Mixed feelings.. love and hate. I love him but the thought of going back to be the second best, coming after everything horrifies me. And I know that he will never leave his family for me. So I'm torn apart. The rational part of me is screaming to stay clear of him.
I'll let you know what happened.
In the meantime, you all take care.
A special hug to Corinne.
Love to you all
Lillybit

Hello my friend,
First let me tell me you, you weren't too harsh and you didn't hurt me. You didn't say anything I haven't already known or felt, it is just accepting it all that I seem to have a problem with. Believe me, I appreciate every word you say and am so grateful for the encouragement. I'm really trying to move forward.

I know this man doesn't love me and slowly that is starting to sink in. He called my cell phone from work and you'll be happy to know I missed the call. I'm sure if I was near my phone my heart would have taken over and I would answered but I'd stepped away. His message was he's sorry he hasn't been able to call, he made an excuse as usual sounding quite sincere, and said he'd call later "Love you, bye". Like usual, it's later, infact it's the next day, and he hasn't called, but that's besides the point. He mentioned briefly a problem shes been having and maybe he was trying to make it sound like he didn't care but I could tell he was bothered by it and worried. He's been taking care of her. He loves her, she's back and things are fine I'm sure. He just hasn't told me like you said, so I'm available any time he needs an ego boost. He is very indifferent about our daughter. If it's he doesn't care or he's hurt because he doesn't know her I don't know. I think I expected him to want to know everything, want pictures and so on. I expected too much of this man who I now know has done nothing but lie to me to get what HE wanted. I just wish when he left messages he didn't sound so sincere. I wonder how he felt not being able to get me. I hope he suffered a little.

So I'm still trying to move on. Yes it hurts and is a slow agonizing process, but you are right, I don't deserve this pain. I still love him, that I will have to live with, but I know he doesn't deserve my love.

As for you, good luck today. I hope you find and realize your hearts desire. There is a very fine line between love and hate, I'm sure you'll both find your way. I understand what you mean about not wanting to be second best and not wanting to be that person. Listen to your rational part and proceed today with caution, if anything use it for closure or the end of a chapter. Protect you heart like I told Allison, but do go today to realize your destiny. My thoughts are with you supporting whatever it is you do. I'll be right here for you.

My love to you and my love to all!
Corinne
xoxo

hello sisters and my friends,

just got back from Egypt. Egypt was breathtaking, it is a have to visit place... 2000 years before Christ, and look at what the built... we are in 2000+ now after Christ :-). its a whole different world.
with my MM, did anything change? so much yet nothing. i had caught the flu bug, before going, and was running fever, but still decided to go... by the end of the trip i was fine and he was bad.
first, when we met, he stuck to no phusical imtimacy, i was surprised and hurt, i have not seen him for two months and not a kiss. so i was angry, he could have made it clear. anyway i cooled off the next day, and decided i will not stay angry, and enjoy egypt, its a place i have always wanted to see.
and when night came i just went to sleep... no intimacy :-), and i was fine with that. ( it surprised me :-)), i awoke to being made love too... and we made love, to which my MM says started in our asleep state... Now i would like to know how many have experienced this. making love in your sleep, and not really recalling it clearly... (no we were not drunk at all). i was awake midway, but too aroused to stop! this has never before happended to me.
so we got back to where we were. and we cried again when we had to say good bye, he gave me a preety valentine gift, a charm with lots of hearts on it :-). kind of cliche, but sweet.
all this was great, but i have decided to give life a chance... i will start dating again, and i am going to tell him this, lets see how things change. because any time we talked about it he says he will still want to see me even if i was with someone else...
but this is not for him, this is for me... i want to at least try, to believe in love again. and i hope and pray the same for all of you here.

Corinne, STN, lillybit, Allison... do tell me what you think... is he trying to play me here? because he thinks he is losing control?

STN, the lows will come, and go, remember what you told me... ride it out... it will get better, keep writing.

love

dali

will it work this time?

Hi y'all,

This song is really beautiful IMO. Maybe you'll find it of comfort if you're having relationship woes. For some reason I can't post the URL here, but if you go to

youtube.com --> "Aimee Mann" & "Amateur" it comes up together with a lovely black and white video. (I'm not connected to Aimee financially or in any other way, in case you were wondering).

Hi my friends,
Dali, I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed your trip, regardless of the flu bug and the initial lack of intimacy.
It would have been difficult not to go back where you were, you slept in the same bed and were together all the time. I think it was predictable and very likely to happen. Obviously, after two months you were both defensive and didn't know what to expect from each other. Apparently you've come to terms with yourself and even if you still love him you feel that the right thing for you to do is to move on, I think that you've made the right decision, this is the best thing you can do for yourself. Go on with your life, date someone else and see what happens. You don't need to tell that to your MM though. Otherwise it would sound like a blackmail and I'm sure this is not what you mean. As you said, you want to give love another chance. And I hope you'll soon find someone just for you, someone who wants to live with you and be there for you. You deserve that. I think we all do.
Corinne, thank you for your support, it's nice to know that there is someone out there who's on your side, whatever you do. You're really a good friend and I want you to know that I feel the same for you.
Unfortunately you're going through such a bad time, but you're doing a great job. Feeling rejected is devastating and in your case more than ever, because his rejection includes your daughter too. Don't give up. Accepting that he probably doesn't love you or at least doesn't love you as much as you do love him is the first step, maybe the most painful. It's a long and enduring procedure but in the end I'm sure you will overcome all that. Just give it time and take all the time you need. And whenever you feel down, remember that you have friends here ready to listen to you and to help you.
A couple of days ago, after a month, I met my MM. In the beginning we were both very very defensive, but as soon as I saw him I felt myself melting down. I wanted to kiss him straight away. Well, we kissed each other on the lips but he was a bit distant, he didn't know what to expect from me. We walked for a while and he seemed to relax a bit... well to cut it short, by the end of the evening we were back to where we were a month ago.
I'm not sure what will happen next. For the first time, I listened to him and tried to understand what he's going through and he's really having a tough time. I've realized that I have my share of fault, I've always refused to listen to him and forbid him to mention his family while he was with me. So he had to carry his burden alone. I was selfish and centered on my problems, I had a very bad year but if you love someone you have to give up a part of yourself. I didn't do that.
Now I don't know what to expect. But whatever will happen, I feel stronger and less vulnerable. I don't know if we will go on seeing each other or not.
We missed each other loads but we're both afraid to get on that roller-coaster again. Probably we should negotiate other terms and conditions. I'll let you know.
Thank you for listening, hope to read from you very soon.
Take care my friends and much love to you all
lillybit

Hi Everyone,

Things are a little better, my PMS got the best of me in those days and now it's passed, thank goodness. I feel a bit stronger, but so confused. Turns out my MM actually called me, but I never got the message until he told me where to find it. Didn't say much, but it was his way of letting me know he misses me. I'm glad I'm missed. It makes me feel better. He still wants me to come back and keep things they way they were and it's quite clear that like many of us OW, I'm here to fill in the gaps of his life. He loves me, but he loves the family and wife and life he has that doesn't include me. So yes, he'd be getting his cake and eating it too. I'd be getting a bit of cake for a lot of heartache, assuming I still can't handle being someone he sees when it's convenient for him. The sad truth is that I haven't met a soul I'd rather be with, but even sadder than that is that I don't want to be with someone who treats me like he has to treat me. I'm not just talking nonsense when I say I deserve more...I really need more if I'm going to feel good about myself. And in the end, I'm going to have to stop wanting anything from him before I can really feel better. And you're all right, it's about living in the moment, taking each day as it comes (if I start to think about the future I turn into a burning ball of anxiety). I'm in Italy now, finished up my time in Paris which was actually really nice. I once said the French were rude, but take it back, so many of them were extremely kind to me and considerate. Of course I'm totally broke as well...money! This is always a reminder to me that no matter what line my MM is feeding me, I'm really on my own. If I ever had a financial problem, a serious one, I know I couldn't go to him for help. That tells me something even if I'm not interested in any of his money. It tells me that no matter what I want to believe, I'm really on my own.
My family came to see me and my relationship with some of them really did improve, and that's left me feeling stronger and more together.
Corinne, your man keeps you hanging on because having you hanging on gives him a security blanket and it feeds his ego. It might be that there's love mixed into all of that, it's not a healthy way of expressing it.
Dali, I don't think your MM is trying to play you. I think he wanted to have sex with you when you two thought of this trip to Egypt and I think it was something he thought would happen if you two were close enough. Sounds to me like there's an undeniable attraction between the two of you and if you're in the same room together, asleep or awake, you're going to be drawn together. He knew that and on some level you were having similar thoughts off and on. I don't think it's a mark against you, in fact, it sounds kind of healthy to me to be able to have that kind of intimacy with him one more time and still be thinking of looking for a lover who makes you his first priority...as long as you're able to look sincerely, then I'm happy for you. Sex is sex, it isn't enough to make or break your life unless you add that value to it.
And as for would I ever move in with my MM? Oh, had you asked me that 4 months ago I would have said yes in a heartbeat. But the truth is that it could only work in another life, one where he'd not been married with all of these children. God how I wish I could have spent my life with him...my heart knows nothing more true than this, but it's just not going to be in my cards unless some strange twist of fate takes over and the universe gets turned upside down. It can't happen as things are, that's for sure...not because I couldn't handle it, but because the world he lives in couldn't handle it.
Anyway, these days are days of higher energy for me and it's making it possible for me to think of building a stronger and more comfortable and more simple life for myself. What I need most is to feel I've loved people in a way that I can respect and that my day to day affairs are more or less in order. After that comes health and friendships/family relationships and finally after that comes thinking about developing my interests that don't involve my MM. I've gotten into painting and actually sold one painting to a woman in Paris who decided she loved a tree I painted in all different shades of blue. That was kind of flattering and it made me feel good in general. But that's the list of priorities.
Corinne, I"m glad to hear you getting sick to death of feeling sick about your ups and downs with your MM. You're moving to a better place, take that as a real sign that you are. You're going through things the way you are because it's all natural and because your MM isn't doing a g-damn thing to make things any easier on you. He's keeping you hanging on because of what he needs from you, and the fact that he's trying to distance himself from you, well, that's just a sign that he knows he's dangerously attached to you too. My advice is going to be strong and please feel free to reject it. I don't usually like to offer strong advice, but I see that this might be a good time for it...get yourself in the power seat immediately, do whatever it takes. It seems like he's preparing to make things a bit tough for you in ways you might not have imagined yet. The only thing that will protect you now is that power seat and your will to protect yourself. Keep loving him if you still need to, but love him from the power seat, don't give an inch any time soon. I'm sorry if that advice turns out to be wrong or misguided, but I feel it very strongly at the moment...knowing what i know about how MM often behave and what it costs us OW who bear the brunt of their selfish egomania. I'm not saying you should start hating him, just do things that let YOU know that you're the boss.
I hope that makes sense, as usual, I'm rambling. Where the heck is Danielle these days?? I hope everyone's hanging in there. I'll check in again soon.
Lots of love and good wishes,
STN

remember it's not the deal you got, it's the deal you think you got

How is everyone doing ? I am going to give you an update of my situation..NEED ADVICE...but first I want to say:

Dali: No playing games, I don't think so. I think your bond is so strong that is was another moment of love you shared, what I find strange is that you seem so strong about what happened and your ready to move on? From all your feelings I don't think your being honest with yourself and what happened. I think your avoiding feeling hurt maybe you think, this was the last time ? Tell me how you felt during the love making..

Lilybit: I totally understand where your coming from, I never want to know the family stuff either, I always figured that if he wants to mention it he will, I am starting to now realize that as much as avoidence of that is happening it isn't neccessary because he is still living there and that is apart of his life, so whether I like it or not, I have to accept it. Maybe it will help you guys grow stronger by being that listener he needs.

Corrine & STN: Hang in there girls I know it's gonna take everything in your power to ignore the phone this wednesday, keep busy..

Jamie: Where the heck are you girl ?

OK I am gonna start a new window with my update...so Girls read it and tell me what you think.

Hello to all my friends,

There are a few updates on my situation with my MM, but I’ll get to them after I talk to you all.

Dali
I’m so glad you had such a beautiful time in Egypt, I can only imagine how amazing it was, and I’m talking about the love making along with the pyramids. What a beautiful place to be to realize the connection you and your MM have. I don’t think he is playing you at all, I think the two of you have a deep love and attraction for eachother and of course being together in any capacity will bring that out. I’m glad you made love and it was beautiful. Certainly you both knew, and on some level desired, that is what this trip would bring. It can either be the continuation of a chapter of the closing of one. Either way, it was a good addition to your memories. You can only move on from here either continuing loving and being with your MM, or you’ll find a new love and perhaps one that can be solely committed to you. Most importantly, you had a beautiful time and I’m happy for you. Hold on to those special memories.

STN
It is great to hear your MM did call you, for whatever reason, you know you were on his mind and in his heart. The good facts are you feel stronger, more confident and able to recognize the kind of love you share. Yes, he wants to have his cake and eat it too, but before you were angry that he wanted to treat you that way, now you accept that is what he is able to give you and are wondering if you want the same, this time the choice is yours. Like you told me, you are in the power seat now and taking control of the direction your relationship takes. In the end, whatever it may be, you’ll know what you shared was beautiful, he loves you, and you took control of your own destiny. Make yourself happy, take care of your heart. Whatever you choose and whatever path you take, I’ll support you and will be right here for you. Enjoy Italy, and please do tell me all about it.

Lillybit
How wonderful your meeting went well, I know how tense you were about it. You were able to see things from a different perspective, his perspective which seems to have made you stronger. You can recognize you have a special shared love with him and you both respect eachother. Holding on to him may be difficult if he is unable to commit to you right now, but letting go may be even more difficult. The good thing is you now you can control whichever way you go still knowing that what you shared, whether it continue or not, was loving and beautiful. If not with him, you’ll find love, feel love, and whatever path you take, I’ll be here to for you ever step of the way.

Allison, I hope things are going ok for you, I look forward to seeing your posts.
DanielleJordan and Jamie, where are you ladies, we miss you.

As for me, well…are you sitting down. My MM called this weekend, once on Saturday and once on Sunday. He kept telling me how much he wanted me, desired me, missed me. He begged for pictures and a letter. We got to talk for about 45 minutes to an hour each time. A couple of things I realized that made me a bit angry and hurt from what he said. On the one hand he told me how much he wants me, needs me, loves me then on the other hand he’s assuming I’ll move there and he said when I’m there it won’t be what I want but he’ll “come over whenever” he can. So, I’m supposed to leave my family, friends, my job so I can hold up in an apartment waiting for him to come screw me every once and a while “when he can” and leave? That made me angry. I asked him if he meant it would be that way forever because that isn’t what we discussed a few months ago when he asked me to marry him. He said “I don’t know, you don’t know what will happen she could come home now and tell me it’s over”. I thought to myself, so I’m waiting for her to leave him rather then him leave her? Why? I didn’t want to argue so I let it go, path of least resistance and all you know. I just couldn’t handle any more sad feelings and thoughts at the moment. Then he tells me to come there next week, knowing I couldn’t he kept begging me to come be with him, so I said fine more to change the subject then anything. He went on to say how much he wants to “make sweet love to me” and give me the baby I’ve been wanting. He kept saying that, then when I said “you can’t get me pregnant it will cause trouble for you, I don’t want to hurt you”, you know what he said…ok, so this will make you mad….he said “it won’t if you don’t say anything”. Oh my god, so I’m supposed to stay his hidden little secret with his bastard child (2 infact he said he wanted to “give” me, one right after the other) while he stays with her, the woman he can’t stand or so he says. At this point I was so angry but still avoided conflict and said simply if we are together you won’t get me pregnant, I’ll make certain of that. He want on to beg for pictures of me, more provocative ones to see, said how beautiful I am. At this point I’m feeling more like I want out more then ever before but not without him feeling some of the loss and hurt he’s made me feel. So, I sent him some pictures today (of course god I hope HE gets them out of the mail, you know that will make me a nervous wreck), this may have been a dumb move, but I wanted him to see them, I want him to pine over them, need me, want me and then I can say, “you know what, being locked up in some apartment somewhere waiting for your calls never to come, you visits never to come, isn’t what I deserve, this just isn’t going to work”. I don’t mean to do this to get him back either, just sort of to make him see what he lost. Childish of me I know, and of course if she gets them it could be a world of hurt but he isn’t stupid enough to let that happen….I hope!

He mentioned our daughter a couple of times, on the one hand telling me not to lead him on about her and on the other saying he hopes she is his and he wants to know. I’ve told him I’m certain she is, after all, I’m the one who got pregnant I knew who I slept with, but he kept saying he wanted to know. He only mentioned her because I did, asked if he wanted pictures of her. I was going to send some but chose not to, he doesn’t deserve to see them and I want her to know nothing of him. He wants to hide a child he wants to give me now, why would he want to know anything about her.

Ultimately I realize he loves her and only wants to have me around for a convenient romp in the sack from time to time. He says he loves me and maybe he doesn’t realize there is a huge difference between she, the woman he loves, and me, the woman he wants to f**k. F**king isn’t love and isn’t what my heart wants. I’m honestly not sure if he knows the difference, he really does have some odd sexual habits. I’m not certain he’s been with any woman, any of his wives, for anything but the sex. That may be what he feels is love.

I hope you don’t hate me for sending those pictures, I know it was impulsive and childish, but I wanted him to see what he’s given up when I say finally “now’s not a good time for us”, see what he's hurt. Of course, I pray I have the strength to do that, but I think I do, and I realize when and if I do say that he still may not care. He really made me so angry over the weekend with those comments. How can anyone want to cage another human being up like that, and thier own unborn children. Whould he not want his older son and daughter to know they have a new sibling? Could anyone be that evil? I felt very angry and very hurt, sad knowing I’ve wasted my time and energy.

I love you all, please don’t be upset with me. Is what I did horrible?
Much love
Corinne

Hello Ladies,
Sorry I haven't written in a while. I've been really busy with work. All is well. It's funny though because I've been feeling down too. Loving, leaving, or anything involving a MM is painful and it leaves a profound pain in your heart. You give so much to them and get so little in return. That's the Pain of Being the Other Woman. Truthfully, when people talk about the wife, I never think about her. His wife never knew he was having an affair. He lied to protect her feelings and his way of life. She's never suffered the way I have so I've never felt sorry for her just as I don't expect her to ever feel sorry for me. Even though I didn't want to hear it, I would let my MM talk about his family. He seemed to have all these things he wanted to get off his chest, so I let him talk. But sometimes, it hurt to listen and I would tell him I didn't want to hear anymore. Like I'm just dying to hear about his day to day life and woes with his family. NOT!! Anyway, most of the MM in our lives love us, but it's on their terms. And once again, that's the Pain of Being the Other Woman. Thank goodness we've got each other because we'd all be nut jobs by now. :)

Love you ladies
daniellejordan

STN,
Do you have an email address? I want to send you something. I thought about creating a yahoo (or some other free email) account just for emails to and from the ladies on this site... So we'd have another way to keep in touch. Maybe we could all do that.

daniellejordan

Hi Ladies, I thought I'd take the chance to write while I can. Would you believe that my MM called? I can't believe it. Anyway, I realized that he's often given me the third degree about who I'm spending time with, etc etc and acting all jealous. Today I realized that at least half of the times he's done this it's to detract my attention from what HE'S been up to. He does it when he's feeling guilty.
Today I don't know if he loves me or ever did. It's just one of those days. He doesn't say the right things too often, but then he surprises me and does a bunch of things that let me know he really cares in his own limited, selfish and often naive way.
I love him, but I want to move on. I want another man to move on to...one who can care for me, one who can share his life with me and be there for me when I'm in trouble...but this man isn't anywhere to be found. So in the meantime I'm in a limbo between this seriously flawed emotional affair with my MM and feeling totally and completely alone. I know on good days I can actually pull myself together and feel strong and good about myself, but it's not one of those days today. I know, I need to hang on and wait for my mood to change. It's true enough. I think I just felt like indulging in some complaining to women who have similarly bad options. Misery loves company. I'm going to see if I can stop feeling sorry for myself tomorrow, and I hope I didn't bring anyone down who wasn't already down. Sorry for behaving this way. Something set me off a little earlier in the evening and I'm still a bit upset by it. A friend of mine sent me a note on email that asks a bunch of questions like what's your favorit food, middle name etc and then you send it back. Whatever. One of the questions was 'Do you ever wish on stars?" and I realized that I had wished on them my whole life, the same wish over and over (I wished that I could love someone with my whole heart who loved me back) and then I realized that when my wish finally came true it almost killed me. I'm angry about life. I know, if I want more out of life than it can offer I'm bound to be disappointed. And I'm feeling pretty disappointed at the moment. And I'm jealous of all the people in the world who have good relationships. I feel ugly when I get in these moods, I mean I feel ugly inside and it doesn't help. Damn it.
xoxo, stn

dear Corinne,

where do you find all this love within you? i mean dont you get angry, and want to just get away from this hurt?
i find that a very strong quality in you, but i wish and pray this love finds a worthy place...
here i am trying to hurt less loving this man, who loves me and who does all he can to be with me... but i still push him away because he wont take the big step. i know he will never be with me. the times we have are the most beautiful i have ever had... and i keep asking myself why cant i be happy with just what i have?

how have you been ?

take care
dali

Hey Danielle!
I like your idea of keeping in touch via email, it seems less vulnerable to write some things off the webpage. I made an account at yahoo, it was easy. Just write to me at

[email protected]

and just drop me a note here on this webpage to let me know if you wrote something (so I'll remember to check it...since it's not my normal account i might not remember to look in on it at until I get used to using it. My brain is scattered like that these days.).

Btw, tonight I found out my MM is in touch with lots of women on line, old friends he says. And he never reads his email, but still, it pissed me off. Then, of course, he was mr. charming and did all kinds of sweet things. Oh well, I guess I love him for a reason, but I wish for better treatment for myself and all of us here and even the women our MM are married to. Maybe that's just a pipe-dream, I mean that guys might find it in themselves to have some decency about these issues. Okay, I"m rambling, so I better get off to bed.
As for you Corinne, BE CAREFUL PLEASE, your MM doesn't know when he's coming or going and he's definitely made you his spare tire. That's just messed up that he thinks you'd be okay with it. I'm taking it as a very good sign that you see what a rotten deal it is that he's offering. But when I say be careful, I mean he seems to be shifting somehow, at least based on what you've been writing. I feel like he might be plotting to do something really devious. For heaven's sake don't give him anymore pictures of yourself becuase who knows what he'd do with them if he ever felt that you had crossed him? Love can turn to hate in a heartbeat, and the wild passion between you two can turn without warning at some point too, you just never know. You don't want those things (the pics) floating about out there, I don't think they're so safe in his hands because he's not actually in them himself. He could just claim you sent them, unbidden by him. That's just a worst case scenario, but the thought's crossed my mind. Whatever the case turns out to be, I just don't like the sound of the way he's behaving right now...there's something fishier than usual going on (call me sensitive or paranoid and you might be right, but it's what I sense). Hopefully it will just turn out to be a false alarm on my part, I hope so. But erring on the side of caution couldn't hurt someone in your situation...you've got a family at stake, a real family and children you love with your whole heart who need your protection from his erratic behavior. I hope that didn't come out sounding judgmental, I don't mean it that way at all, I'm just concerned and I don't trust your MM to be stable and reliable when it might really count.
okay, i'm off to sleep. take good care everyone and lots of love, stn

THIS IS INSANE.....My Husband is having a midlife crisis, and has found comfort in his secretary.....She is pathetic, as women we have a code of ethics that says or should say, we don't mess with married men. As a women I would never be so desperate as to be with a married man...........I have 3 children who are being deeply hurt by this.........

Any women who would sleep with or persue a married man is revolting.......

"tonight I found out my MM is in touch with lots of women on line, old friends he says. And he never reads his email"

Sorry STN - but does that sound credible to you?

"He kept saying that, then when I said “you can’t get me pregnant it will cause trouble for you, I don’t want to hurt you”, you know what he said…ok, so this will make you mad….he said “it won’t if you don’t say anything”.

... what do you see in him?

Hello ladies,

I only have a moment but wanted you all to know how grateful I am for your advice, support and love.

STN, no, I didn't find you too judgemental and agree with you, I do have my family and children to consider and protect, particularly our daughter, from my MM and whatever it is he's thinking. I also know that sending those pictures was very wrong and I won't do it again. I love you for your concern for me, believe me I do. I read part of your post, I'm sorry you're feeling so angry and sad. I'll read more and write back.

Dali, I have no idea where this love comes from and believe me I wish I could rid myself of it, of him. I've love him for so long, half my life, I seem to not know any other way. I recognize I need to let go, and I'm trying. I'm happy that you have the love you do, whether or not your future is together with him, it sounds like a beautiful love and one you'll cherish no matter where your destiny brings you.

Pie, I wish I knew what I saw in him, at least now. What I did see in him was a kind, loving, enthusiastic fun man who said he loved me "more then I could imagine" and has for as long as I've loved him (so he said). But that was a few months ago, and I realize now he lied. Unfortunately that hasn't taken the love I have for him away although I keep praying for that to happen.

Thank you all as always for caring for me and know I care and love you just as much. I'm sorry I don't have more time and at the moment I'm not in a very good state of mind, feeling very lost, alone and scared. I'll post again.

Love to all
Corinne
xoxoxo

it may or may not sound credible pie, but i'm 100% sure it's true. it's a source of pride for him not to read email and to have lots of letters coming in anyway. he likes the ego stroking he gets. we've seen it before and it's not going away any time soon...alas.

STN,
check your email.

Hello STN,

I’m in a better frame of mind today, feeling a bit stronger. I’ve read your post and it saddened me to see you are feeling so angry and alone. I hope now that feeling has passed. I completely understand how you are feeling and wish we could just give eachother a big hug for comfort. Please know I’m sending you my good wishes. Its funny you say you’ve wished on stars you whole life, I have too, for pretty much the same thing. Please don’t feel too disappointed, your wish will come true. There is a man out there for you who will love you, commit his life to you and share many beautiful things with you. Your MM has called you as mine does to keep hold on you, make sure that your mind is on him and thoughts are of him. Unfortunately he has succeeded and that has caused you to feel this way. Are you still in Italy? Is there a fitness center or activity center you can get involved in to meet other people, even perhaps the library or a café. Take a newspaper to a café on a busy street, sit on their couch and watch the people go by, you never know who may sit next to you interested in the same things you are. STN, you’re a beautiful woman, inside and out, there is love there for you if you could only put your MM in the back of your mind temporarily, it will open a window for a new friendship/relationship/love. Your MM will always be unable to commit to you, yes I’m sure he loves you but is sounds like his love for himself, and his commitments where he is, will never allow him to fulfill you, fulfill your life and heart. I’m not saying let go of the love you have for him, you’ll likely never do that, but find a place in your heart and mind to store that love as a memory (a happy one) and open your heart to a new love, a new chapter. I know I should listen to my own advise, but you are in such a beautiful place in location and in spirit, find your love, it is there for you I’m certain of it.

As for me, my MM called me yesterday at work, he’d gotten home early. We talked for a little while, wished eachother a Happy Valentine’s day. He said I was the only one who said that to him, apparently she’d done nothing and planed on going out that night without him. He sounded sad and alone. That may have just been his way of keeping me holding on, caring for him, I don’t know. He was happy that I opened our conversation with “happy valentines day my love”. Anyway, I didn’t speak to him again after that yesterday. He called me early this morning and said he’d tried to call 3 times last night, at my end the phone never rang. I would have known, believe me I waited anxiously and was greatly disappointed when it didn’t ring. All circuits must have been busy and he couldn’t get through if he in fact did try to call. Anyway, he told me he got my pictures yesterday and really loves them, loves me. He was disappointed we didn’t get to talk last night, he said he didn’t tell me they’d come when he called in the afternoon because he wanted to surprise me with an evening conversation. He just kept saying how much he enjoys them and wants more. We didn’t have much time to speak since he was at work, he said he’d try and call later. I don’t know if later will ever come, he may have called me this morning to tell me the pictures were there knowing he wouldn’t be able to call again today. We said our I love you’s and good bye. I’m relieved, at least I know he has them, in my heart I don’t think he has bad intentions for them.

So I’m feeling better today but I fear that is only because I’ve heard from him and he was nice and sincere and said he loves me. Yesterday he did mention some the same things that made me mad over the weekend about being the other woman and seeing me whenever he could when I’m there (assuming I’ll be there of course), not telling anyone about a baby he wants to “give me”. I said to him if he did get me pregnant it isn’t like I’d call her and say “guess what” but I also wouldn’t hide it, I’d want him to be a part of it, have his last name and asked wouldn’t he want his son and older daughter to know they have a baby sibling. He sarcastically said they may already have one. That was so totally a different situation back then and I made the decision not to tell him to protect him, protect the child. His intentions are only to hide it, tuck it away. He’s so contradictory of himself. If you love someone, why would you want to hide that person and hide his own child from his entire family. Especially if his current relationship is as miserable as he says it is. There were reasons he was staying, and some of those reasons don’t even exist anymore, so why stay.

My intention of sending those pictures was for him to enjoy them and then I’d say good bye, telling him that I couldn’t live my life as his dirty little secret with his bastard children who’d have an on again off again father that’s ashamed of them. My intention was to say good bye some time next week. Does my heart have the strength to let go? What will his reaction be? I’m so scared, afraid of losing him, afraid of hanging on. I know I need to let go, all the signs are there. Unfortunately my love for him is still strong and takes all sense and sensibility out of my thought process. Time will tell I guess.

I love you STN, hang in there and keep posting when you can.

I too have opened a yahoo account, it was very easy. Our conversations will be easier and can be more confidential and frequent. Dali, DanielleJordan, Jamie, Allison, Lillybit, Pie, and you too or course STN please e-mail me; [email protected]

My love to all!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Why does "I'll call you later" never come. Of course when I talked to my MM yesterday morning when he was so sweet he said "I'll call you later if I can", then later never comes.

Why does he have NO regard for me or how I feel. Could he actually not know how completely and totally I am in love with him? Does he just not care?

Why is he so sweet in some regards (few, but some) and so cold in others. Sweet in saying I love you, when he said he wanted to "give you the baby you want" he said "I want to be there, feel it grow inside you, be there when it's born and watch you name it when they lay it on your chest", then turn around and say "don't say anything about it and it won't be trouble". Why beg me to be there with him and then say "it won't be what you want but I'll see you whenever I can". Knowing full well "whenever" is hardly ever.

I pray every day for this love I'm holding on to to be released from me, cleanse me of it. I'm still waiting, praying. How do I say good bye to him, tell him I don't want to be there as the woman he f**ks while he lives with the woman he loves. This is just too much pain, anger, frustration, hurt, loss. I feel weak and torn apart.

Please pray for me to have the strength to say good bye to him. I don't want it to be a harsh f**k off good by but simply, I can't do this, I deserve better, I'll always love you, always have, but have to let you go you've hurt me too much. Please pray I have the strenght to follow through with that plan.

I love you all!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hey Girl

With each post you sound stronger and then you don't hear from your MM and you fall back into that rut, do you notice the pattern of emotional distress you are putting yourself through? But I do have faith that you will "jump" off that cliff and never look back. Your MM is slowly sending you to the cliff, it's up to you to jump. How liberating it will be to jump and be on your own terms.
Don't be afraid, you have nothing to lose and only the truth to gain.
The way we love our MM's, it's like an addiction, a drug we can't live without.
Hang in there girl.
Love Allison

Hi Gals:

Lots of things are happening at work which is pulling us away from eachother.
We both take our jobs really seriously and we both find ourselves getting so involved with work and then time passes and we don't see eachother.
This is causing a major stress between us, so me being me I just pull away instead of saying how much I miss him and want to see him.

3 weeks has gone by and we have spent little time together, it sucks.
And we do hang out, he acts strange, always thinks I am going to dump him.
I don't get that..we both put up these major walls.

It's 15 months for us now and I feel we are going through our first rough patch, a part of me wants to give up and the other wants to believe.
He continues to tell me he loves me and wants me to be happy. The main serious conversation we had last I told him how my life with him feels "real" and my life without him (on weekends) isn't my life, it feels fake.
He said to me again, let me think about that one. I said no you don't get it,
I don't need you to fix anything, this is how real you feel to me and if that helps push you into a decision so be it. He is pretty black and white..he

Nothing has changed so that's where I am at, just gliding along.
Hoping his love for me continues to grow every day as it does for me.

Dear Corinne,
I'm in a more or less better mood than the last time I wrote. I guess I'm just feeling pensive these days. I have a lot of time on my own and all I ever want to do is sleep. I feel like I'm recovering from some kind of catastrophe and that this is the first time in far too long that I've stopped moving around, stopped distracting myself and started to feel all of the feelings that have come with parting ways with my MM. We're still in touch by phone and email on and off, but the physical distance between us is giving me some mental space as well. Mostly I'm feeling exhausted and thankful that I have this time to collect myself.
I haven't gotten involved in local-life here yet in Italy, but I know I will at some point. But everything I do I do with caution these days, even smiling. I also care more about everything than I used to. If I see someone having a hard time, I feel more compassion than before. At least that's something positive that's come out of this situation.
My MM sent me candy for Valentine's Day and I thought that was something...especially since I didn't get him anything. I really think it helps to hold back from these MM, then they start doing things to please us. It's as if I'm nothing to him when I'm giving everything and everything when I'm giving nothing. It all makes about as much sense as the rest of the affair. In the end, Corinne, I think that the reason your MM doesn't call 'later' when he says he will is because he calls when HE feels a need to talk to you and doesn't stop to think about the fact that sometimes you feel the need to talk to him. It's pure selfishness and self-interest. I've seen the same behavior in my MM. It's a matter of pride as well, my MM doesn't like to be the one in pursuit, he likes to force me to be the one to speak about how I feel about him without ever really telling me how he feels about me. I know he loves me deeply, but it's as hard as hell for him to say it and to explain his feelings for me to me.
Anyway, I'm getting side-tracked, I should just wish you all the strength in the world as this next week approaches. I think your decision to break things is a step in the right direction, no matter how it turns out. Even if you give in to his begging or arguing with you (which he'll probably end up doing at some point), at least he'll know you're not his slave anymore and that the end of your patience is in sight. He needs to know you have limits or he's going to keep walking all over your for the rest of your life.
As for the business about the child, it's all a romantic fantasy for him, he's interested in the ideas he has about it, not in the reality of it. That makes him a jerk in my book because he's already got one child he isn't up to treating the way he should, he hasn't got any business bringing children into the world if he doesn't want to care for them. I'm sorry to say that so baldly, but I feel this is a strong sign of his weak character. I know you love him and that's going to defy all logic (that's how love is sometimes), but I'd love to give him a piece of my mind about the child-issue since I'm not head over heals for him. Anyway, I'm hoping that this coming week you'll have the strength and determination you'll need to do what's right for you. However you handle it, I know we'll be proud of you for doing what you can to take back some control over this situation that's hurt you so badly.
Lots of love as always, STN

Hello Ladies,
Isn't it time to end the vicious circle of painful love? How to straighten it (or ourselves) out? I suggest to bring links to articles, research, publications and other sources of knowledge. Better yet, to represent them with a short briefing, giving the essence, because in today's world things are very very wordy and watery.
Supportingly,
Wonder

Hi Corinne,
After reading what Allison had to say to you I just want to agree. This need you have to hear from him is a symptom of your addiction, like other kinds of addictions it makes you do things that defy all logic, makes you want things that aren't in your best interest and it makes you feel desperate when it's time for your 'fix' and you don't get it. Recognizing this feeling for what it is can help you. It helped me at least, I mean once I knew that I had to get that desperate need cleaned out of my system I started to slowly find other ways of feeling happy. Nothing in the world compares to how happy I feel when I'm with my MM, don't get me wrong, it's just that I found other types of things that can make me happy and get me through rough patches without feeling like I need to kill myself to stop the pain. So what I'm trying to say is that you need something like 'drug replacement therapy'...you've got to build up your strength to fight off that desperate need you have for contact and positive interaction with your MM with other kinds of happiness. At least that's how it worked for me. First I had to stabilize things between me and my MM so that we weren't making each other insane and then, slowly (and I'm still working on this), I keep forcing myself to get involved in things that distract me and make me feel anything other than desperate to talk to my MM. Coming to terms (or at least doing the best I could) with my situation with my MM helped a lot...knowing and accepting what was and wasn't going to change had a huge stabilizing effect (and it stopped me from desperately trying to make things happen that would never happen). The period of acceptance came with a LOT of painful, mournful disillusionment, I had force myself to face some ugly facts, but that saved me in a way. I think I'm talking in mostly abstract terms without examples, but I hope this makes some kind of sense anyway. And it took me several tries to break the hope of a real future with my MM, but each time I tried, even if it wasn't 100% effective, I felt stronger. You just might be able to do it all at once and never look back, just do whatever you can to make yourself comfortable during this process. I never placed a great value in being comfortable, but these days it seems like one of the most important and valuable things to be in this life that's so full of ups and downs. I really mean it when I say take good care of yourself, there's just no substitute for taking good care of yourself...it makes a world of difference when times get tough.
Write soon and let us know how it goes, I've got my fingers crossed and hopes high for you!
xoxo, STN

Hi Allison, I just wanted to check and see if I understood your situation the right way - is your man's wife more or less out of the picture now, I mean he's not still considering going back to her, right? Sorry if I've misunderstood. It sounds like he's a good guy and that you've got about as good of a chance as any woman who's lucky enough to find a good man.

And Dali, where did you go?! I've been wondering what kinds of conclusions you were thinking of coming to after your trip. Have you changed your mind about things?

Corinne:
My MM and I talked a little while ago and he said something about how we'll go to Europe together when we're old and we can hold each other's arms while we try to walk since we'll be so old and frail. I thought it was sweet that he thinks about us spending our old age together since there's nothing for us now and it charmed my socks off when he said that he still would love me when I'm old and grey. I guess it doesn't amount to much more than a romantic dream, but I like it, it's sweet and it makes me feel like he really does love me, all of our situational limitations aside. He's talked like this about us traveling before...meeting overseas in neutral territory and having romantic rendez vous in our old age. Is that how your MM's talk about the child he wants to give you makes you feel Corinne? I hope my MM isn't just saying stuff like this to string me along, it didn't seem like it since I'm not on his string anymore to begin with, he knows that I'm supposed to be thinking of my future without being attached to him, we agreed on that...but maybe you ladies can see something in this that I'm not seeing.

xoxo, STN

Ladies I missed you!!!

Sorry Ive been gone for a while things have been very busy lately. I just wanted to write a quick note to all of you on here. I will be emailing you individually shortly. Corinne do I have news for you!! Love you all lots <33333

xoxoxo
Jamie

P.S Corinne my email address is [email protected] so dont delete when you see that address!

Corinne and STN read your yahoo emails please!!! Allison I need your hunny..its important let me know what it is ok? Lots of love<333333

xoxoxo
Jamie

Hi, i am so glad i found this site, i've been up all nite reading and re-reading all the posts, i think i'm going cross-eyed and crazy! i got involved (unexpectedly) with my MM almost a year ago and have been living in hell, don't know what to do, he's been married for almost 15 years with two young girls, not that young (9 & 12), am i going to be the homewrecker that i never thought would happed? we love each other so much and he tells me he wants to leave his wife adn be with me, we spend every moment we can together and it is beautiful, we laugh, talk, enjoy each others company and yes i have to admit the sex we have is great and feels so natural. i've dated many guys around my age but he is so different (can't explain how, though-make any sense?) we have a 14 year diff in our ages, but that doesn't mean anything to me.

i'm still not quite sure how this site works so i just replied to the last post, but reading them from SNT,dali, allison, jamie and corine and others. you all sound so strong and confident and smart and i think i need to know what to do. i want to be with him as much as he wants to be with me but how do we deal his wife and children. His wife doesn't know about us but i don't know what to do. i guess like some of you on here i go crazy waiting to hear from him and drive myself nuts the time he isn't with me. Is he home pretending to be happy and stringing me along or will he ever leave, how long do i wait, do i give him the time he needs or tell him its me or her. i do agree with some of girls here, that if he does leave he will still be a father and still have a relationship with his girls, has anyone here been in this position? what have your experiences been when children have been involved, do these relationships ever work out in the longrun, do they regret what they've done or are they really happy once they leave. i just drive myself nuts with all the roadblocks that may come our way, he doesn't seem worried about it though. i don't want to end this love we have but what do i do???? i don't want to "share" him with anyone (his wife) am i being stingy/selfish? i don't think he knows how to tell his wife that he wants out (an excuse, maybe) what do i tell him, i know that we can have a great future together but am i getting ahead of the game here, i've already put almost a year devoted to him only and need to know what is coming next, what do i do any sugguestions from gals would be great. i'll check back later today and hopefully someone here can guide me in the right direction. sorry so long but i'm glad i've found a place where other girls can understand my situation. thanks tina

hello girls,

been a very busy week, too many things to do, too many lectures to prepare.
I said i would start dating and i did. its not great but its a begining to mingle, and try and find someone who could be a good friend and a buddy... my MM is taking it fine... on the other hand, he wrote me three poems ! so STN there you are, suddenly you become the 'apple of their eye'. i dont mind that at all. but that does not change anything. he is not ready to tell his family so, all he does is cry in self pity. says he cannot tell his parents, father could die of a heart attack etc... well islamic culture being what it is...
i am coping fine, but i know that low will come again one of these days.

STN, your MM wants to feel that connection... hence all this talk. they have a problem these men here, they do not talk to their wife about the real them. so they need someone else, and generally they look for someone independent.that way they are intelectually stimulated, at the same time, it does not give rise to conflict ( as in marriage) it sounds cynical, but cant help it.

Corinne how you doing? keep not answering those phone calls... it will help you.

lillybit how you doing?

take care all of you
dali

Hi Jamie, glad to hear from you.

I can't set up an email at work with Yahoo, they won't allow the download, is it cool you write me here ?

I have had another breakthrough.! I will post what happened on friday after I answer STN's question.

Love Allison

Hi STN

Our situations are unique, I am newly seperated trying to get my things together in order to move out and start a new life. He still lives with his wife and 2 kids, although he hardly spends anytime with her, they just co-exist for the sake of his kids. On friday he made a promise to me that he will not let me down and will be with me. I beleive him he isn't the type to start a relationship with me and tell me he loves me all the time if he didn't mean it.
I think once I get my new condo, things will really come together, he will have a place to go. I have to be patient, all good things are worth the wait.
He knows I can't wait forever, I can see him slowly getting up the strength.
He loves me, not her, it's the guilt of the kids keeping him there.

Hope that explains it, similar to Jamies situation.

Hi Tina,
Welcome to the site! I definitely sounds like you're in a similar position to all of us. Just to answer your question, do these relationships ever work out: well, I read somewhere that only about 4 or 5% of them do. The MM we love tend to follow the same pattern (with few exceptions), basically they want their cake and they want to eat it too. They want to keep their stable home-lives and they want us to fulfill some need they feel in their hearts (or pants, or both)on the side. They stall, they delay, they give mixed signals so that they keep us hanging on. The question becomes, at some point, 'Do I want to hang on, knowing that he'll never leave his wife but somehow loves me anyway?'
Your case may be different, your MM might love you and somehow be willing to leave his wife at some point down the road...it's hard to tell without having your details. Is there something he's saying that's making you doubt he'll ever make you his new wife, is there something he's saying or doing that makes you think he might? Chances are the answer to both of these questions is YES.
I wish I could resolve the problem for you, but you're going to (most likely) have to do what many of us have done, that is, figure out what the reality of your situation is, what he's really willing to give up for you, how much of himself he'll be willing to give you and if you can live with what you discover.
Bascially, it sucks being the OW in most cases and yet, somehow I know my MM loves me as much as his wife, just in a different way and with a lot more limitations. It doesn't amount to much more than that, but it's something.
I hope that doesn't sound too pessimistic, it's just that it's been hell and I get sad when I think of someone else going through something similar. There are high points to all of it too and maybe I'll say something about them next time.
Wishing you all the best,
STN

Ok, I checked the e-mail and responded. Now check yours.

Corinne

Hello Allison,
It's good to hear from you. I'm sorry you feel you are going through a rough patch but in sounds as though it's only due to busy daily life as opposed to trouble with your love. Your love for eachother sounds true and beautiful and it seems it will only grow with time. I think it's completely natural for your man to worry a little, you've proven to him you are a strong, intelligent, independent and beautiful woman. You've also shown him your loving sensitive side. All reasons why he's in love with you. If you feel you are both putting up walls, why not try and take yours down for a moment with a glance or a smile, a whisper of "good morning" in his ear as you pass in the hallway. Something subtle, but assuring him although life is busy, he's still the one you love. You'll likely find the same type of response from him.

I completely understand what you mean by the weekends don't seem real, I've really started to hate the weekends myself. The wondering, the waiting, it's impossible to handle, but it sounds like in time your weekends will be with your man. Hang in there, it seems you are on a good path and your future is brightly shining ahead of you.

Keep us posted and e-mail when you can.

Much Love
Corinne

Hello Ladies,
My weekend was full of some very harsh realizations. My MM's rollercoaster ride for me has become wild and painful. He's brought me through so many ups and downs, here are some; he wants me there but constantly reminds me I'll "be alone" once I am and he doesn't know for how long and in the interim if I meet someone he'll "understand"; he wants me to have his baby, but not say anything about it so it doesn't cause trouble; he loves ME but insists on staying indefinitely in a relationship with a woman who shows no sincerity, companionship, appreciation, love or passion towards him..for what he can't say. I asked him over the weekend if I was expendable to him, he didn't know what that meant. I said "could you just let me go, right now, and not care". first he asked me "do you want me to" and I of course said no, I just wondered if it would be that easy for him. His response was "like I said, I haven't physically seen you in years, so I don't know". Not the response I wanted, I wanted "Corinne I love you, have loved you more then half my life and have been waiting to finally be together again". It's obvious those words will NEVER pass his lips, they are my thoughts and words.

Unfortunately, I still love him because for some reason of the 10 bad things he says the 1 good thing seems to shine through to my heart, which keeps me holding on. It almost feels like I'm drowning and on the one hand want to fight to get back to life and on the other just want to let it take me down and end the pain. My realization is he doesn't love me he only loves the idea of f**king me and keeping me tucked away somewhere with his trophy children for his enjoyment only. Last summer he made me feel so loved, so wanted, he was so sincere it felt so real. I handed him all my dreams and plans, he's thrown them away and crushed them, he stole my happiness. I'm left a broken image of the woman I used to be and pray I can start to find my way back to what’s real.

I'm so grateful to have you all as my family, my friends. You are the light I can see pulling me back to ME. Thank you for being here for me.

Much love to all!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hello Tina,
Welcome to our world. I've read your post and STN's reply and I have to say, as usual, STN is right. Your situation is unique and sounds positive.

I'm afraid currently I'm not in a position to give the soundest advice as my relationship has fallen to a horrible place, but I do want to tell you just to protect yourself. You love your MM and it sounds as if he sincerely loves you, just don't put all you plans and dreams in his basket, make sure you have your own path to travel happily in the event that he doesn't travel along with you. I'm not trying to frighten you, just caution you not to allow yourself the pain I’ve put myself into. It could be true that his home life is unloving and cold, just make sure it isn't a line to have his cake and eat it too, with you.

Sometimes yes, these relationships do work, Jamie is proof of that. Just be careful and protect your heart.

Please keep us posted on how things are going. The women on this site are great friends and loving caring people. They will be a huge help to you as they have been to me, I love them all.

Warm regards
Corinne

Hi Tina

Welcome to the board, we are all in the same boat, ship, canoe you can say.
Need more info on your situation, how old are you and how old is he ?

From your post, it sounds to me your not 100% sure you want him all the way. Maybe what you both have is enough for now, you can't worry about being a homewrecker, there is a reason he is with you. If he wants to leave his wife have you guys started a plan. ? He can be a dad, without her matter what.

What I have learned you can't put a timeline on these things, it will work itself out but he should be showing signs of more love with you and more intention to start a life together. What does he say, do you talk about living together etc..send more info :)

I do believe if it's meant to be it will be, you will know. In my heart I know he is the one for me as I am for him.

Love Allison.

Hi Corinne,
It just occurred to me after reading your update that although you are still in your MM's clutches and still a shattered version of yourself, you actually are making A LOT of progress. Maybe it doesn't seem so to you because you're distracted by all the pain you're going through and the disillusionment and the fact that he still has the power to suck you in whenever he wants, but really, I can see that bit by bit you're piecing this situation together, you're bringing yourself as best you can to terms with the ugly realities of the situation, and you're pushing yourself further and further along as well as you can, you're wanting what's best for yourself again, even if you aren't yet strong enough to get it in your grasp and you're putting a higher value on your own health and happiness. These are all really good things to be doing, they build you up little by little and I just wanted to make a point of saying so.
Love, STN

Hello Dali,
So you are keeping busy and are back in the dating scene. Good for you. I know it hurts but for now you are doing the right thing, and what's best for you heart and well being. It's simply icing on the cake that your MM is squirming now in the thought of you with someone else. I'm proud of you Dali, you did it. You've certainly accomplished something I've not been able to just yet, you're an inspiration.

It's obvious your MM does love you, and you have the beautiful memories of your trip. Hold on to those beautiful thoughts. If he's lucky enough he'll come around and realize you are the one he wants to walk through life with before you find love with another. I'm sure you'll find a rough spot missing him, wanting him, and that is what we are here for, to care for you.

I haven't mustered up the energy to not answer the calls yet, I'm working on it though. Each time he hurts me a little more, each time my heart moves a bit further away.

Much love Dali, and keep posting!
Corinne
xoxo

Hello ladies,
I hope you are all doing fine. I see that for most of us it's the usual rollercoaster, it's so easy to feel this way in our situation.
Corinne I've just finished reading your posts and I see that you are still so down and I'm sorry for that. But somehow I feel that you're stronger. Please don't even remotely consider to leave what you have to follow him. It could be the worst thing you could do to yourself. Can you imagine your life if you did that? You would be spending your time waiting for him to show up, whenever he pleases of course.
STN I gather from your posts that you're in Italy. I'm Italian, so whatever you may need I'm here. Just let me know. I've seen that many of you have a yahoo account, I haven't one yet, will do that soon.
Dali, I'm happy to know you're back to dating. Hope you'll soon find a nice guy... just make sure he's not married!!!
I think you're right when you say that they don't talk to their wives about themselves.. at least in my case it's utterly true. He finds me intellectually stimulating. You're not cynical, you're realistic and I'm sure we all know that. As I already said, they have it all... they have their cake and eat it too.
The security and affection a family provides, plus someone who fills their gaps, i.e. us.
Unfortunately we don't seem to be able to fully understand that and get rid of them once forever. I'm the first to admit that.
I've started to see my MM again, it happened a couple of times. It's not that we see each other very often, once a week if we're lucky. I missed him and I love him but at the same time I'm so aware that things will remain the same forever.
I guess it was not the right time for us to split up.
But of one thing I'm sure, even if I love him and I do love him, I'm not so weak as I was a couple of months ago. So yes, I still see him but I feel that I'm strong enough not to see him if I choose to. At least this is what I think now... probably I would change my mind should he decide to drop me again.
And Tina, well you're with us now... and you have a man who loves you and he's ready to leave his wife. I understand that you feel guilty for that, but I don't think it's your fault, something was already wrong with his marriage. It's not that you came along and he decided to leave his family out of the blue.
Wifes blame us all the time, they should blame themselves in the first place, or at least they should try to understand what went wrong in their relationship. Most of them failed in giving their husbands what they needed. I'm talking out of my MM's experience. His wife is a good mother but stopped to be his woman soon after the birth of their son. Nevertheless, he'll never leave her, I know I'm repeating myself here.
You all take care
Much love
Lillybit

Hello ladies!!!

Ohh..Im so glad that some of you really understand whats going on with me. It helps so much now that everything is out of the bag if you catch my drift :)

Corinne, I read your post and I must agree with STN. Even though it may seem that things are going really rough, I also see some progress with you! Thats great! You getting stronger, your telling him more about how you really feel, your asking him questions about the both of you and your not torturing yourself as much.

On the other hand I know how difficult it is to even think about letting something go that you truly love so much. In time, I hope there is peace, and strength that will come your way when dealing with your M.M. Its so important hun to take care of yourself, by being emotionally stable, he will see this and respect you for it.

There's been plenty of times when I was so depressed, but I would try my hardest not to give my M.M that satisfaction of knowing that he got to me. Men are strange creatures, in fact, they are the ones that are always unsure about themselves. So we do we expect them to figure us out?

I think that if ANY M.M knows deep down that you will always be there or be waiting for him..he will continue living his "so-called" happy marriage, while comfortably leaving us on the back burners. Screw that! Because in the long run, its us that's left with the broken promises...and <3 hearts <3.

I still deal with my insecurties everyday of him going back. Corinne and STN, now that you have read my email..you may understand now. But then again, I cant let myself be haunted by this fear. If he's going back..he's going back. The soon to be ex still thinks that our relationship is heading for disaster...she's 100% wrong..its going better than ever!!!

The reason I have my insecurities is because if he does go back..its not for her..(she knows this deep down)..its simply his obligations along with guilt. I know this deep down as well..so then I ask myself..If I know this why do I let this upset me?

I just dont want to lose someone that I love with all my heart because of something so ridiculous! He even tells me how he doesnt want to go back, and he's happy with the life that we have. Im just a very pessimistic person...I NEED TO GET OVER IT! :)

I will talk to you all soon!

xoxoxo
Jamie

hello Lillybit,

the break off takes time, rarely does it happen in one go. all of us here have seen that happen, you let go come back, then let go again... it goes on till you have let go of all your hope... so i do suggest to at least try to go out for a coffee with someone nice. it makes a difference. it does not have to be romantic, but a friend or someone you can flirt with. just imagin the balance, its all tilted to one side now, pain and waiting. this maybe one gram on the other side but still it is a begenning to balance out on the loneliness and waiting.

keep the good part of the old, that is what i am trying to do.
take care, keep writing

love
dali

hi Corinne,

you are darling, thank you for your kind words.
i am swampped with work, and that helps, because i just come home and drop dead. weekend i plan to go out for a movie. have you thought of travelling with your daughter? i love to do that with my mum, travel to a new place, or a museum, a botanical garden...

i think what STN says is correct, you are finding the strength in you, and the reality is changing you little by little... keep fighting in your mind and heart for a better tomorrow :-)

take care
love
dali

Hi Jamie

Stop being negative you have come so far with your man, why look back now.
Listening to you makes me worry about my MM, and if what he is saying is true.
That he won't let me down and one day he will be with me. Or am I going to have to put the foot down and make him choose like you did.

He is with you, you need to stay positive. Why would he want to go back, if he is so happy with you and tells you this. I don't beleive for one sec he will.
He already comitted to you, who cares how crazy the x is, that will never change. Gawd I wish my MM could be so strong and let go of her.

You know he keeps telling me things that I can't believe why he is still with her. Like he got her pregnant that's why he married her after she miscarried he felt bad and seemed like the right thing to do. Currently they often don't even share the same bed, she sleeps with her 5 year old, or he does.
When the weekends come, they go shopping for example, he says he is with his kids not her.He tells me he loves me almost everytime he sees me, that he has never felt this way for anyone in his entire life, he see's us having a life together, wishes he could wake up with me everyday, wants to do things he has never done before with me.... Yet, He wishes his kids were older ? Why would it be easier to leave ?

Anyhow as you can see I honestly say I see a pattern of movement towards us, but the problem is it could just change in an instant.
He needs to get over the "guilt" that he has to leave.
I keep telling him you staying to make everyone happy but your not even happy.
He admits that..he is a very reactionary person, and overthinks everything.

Jamie..when your man decided to leave..does this sound familar to you at all. I am just hoping this is the glimmer of light at the end of my tunnel.

Help.

Hi ladies,

It's good to read everyone's new messages and to know what's going on with all of you. It made me feel like writing a short update. Basically, PMS is nowhere in sight, so I'm feeling pretty strong at the moment. I'm meeting lots of new people and while I'm not hoping for anything at all from them, it feels so good to be in a new group, a new setting without all of the old baggage getting piled up on top of me.
I still wear the jewelry my MM got me each day and I treasure it. I try to imagine him in a place in my heart, tucked away, but there safe and sound and not going anywhere. On the other hand, I'm stepping forward with things. I realize so clearly now that I've got to be the grown-up in this situation and just keep appreciating the fact that he loves me, i love him, we shared what happy times we shared and also the fact that he's not mine, he needs to give his attention and dedication to his family. God that hurts, but it's the way it is. If he doesn't feel happy in his home so that he goes seeking out attention from other women, from me or whoever, well...the truth is, i want him to suffer from not being able to find what he needs outside of his home because i have suffered so much after he drew me close to him despite the fact that he had nothing substantial to offer me. i want him to know what it felt like to be me in our relationship. i doubt he'll ever know how much pain he caused me, but he does become a better person whenever he at least gets a remote sense of the kind of suffering i endured for his sake. in a way, i want him to hurt because i want him to grow, to grow and appreciate and respect other peoples' feelings beyond his own. he has done this to a certain degree while we've been together and i should praise his progress, but he's still essentially all about getting his cake and eating it too and seems to have no real idea how it's really unfair to everyone involved.
anyway, i do want things to remain good between my MM and me, but i'm free now and while it's scarey and lonely, i can finally say i feel better than i have in a long long time. i'm concentrating on my work again, i'm focused, i'm full of good ideas, i have plans, i'm facing problems that i had been avoiding, i'm making friends and appreciating old ones more than ever before. so that's how it is for now. who knows what tomorrow will bring, but all of the suffering i went through to get to this point suddenly seems worth it, at least for today.
love, stn

By the way, has anyone else read this website (see address below)? It's about, among other things, MM and why they start acting like their OW are nothing as soon as we start giving them everything. I was shocked by how well my MM fit this pattern. Believe me, the stronger I get, the more independent I get, the more he wants me. It's pretty annoying in the sense that when I was offering him everything he had no appreciation for it, but on the other hand, I'm stronger and better than I would have been if I hadn't suffered because of just what that situation did to hurt me.

ezinearticles.com/?The-Seduction-of-a-Married-Man&id;=6846

anyway, this site pops up as number 3, i think, when you do a google.com search for 'in love with a married man' and the heading is: 'the seduction of a married man, a married man will work harder than any other man to ....'
the title's a little misleading, i think it should read, the seduction BY a married man because it's not about women seducing men, but the other way around. anyway, it shocked me and i'd be interested to know what anyone thinks of it if you have time to read it.
xoxo, stn

Hi Lilybit, (sorry if I spelled your name wrong). We might be fairly close to each other, I didn't know you were in Italy! Send me an email if you ever feel like it ([email protected]) and I could give you my details.
By the way, is anyone else having bizarre, deep, sometimes really stressful dreams ever since they started having trouble with their MM? I am and I'm wondering if it's just something i have to get out of my system or if there's something wrong with me that i have to actively try to fix. I swear, these dreams are vivid, intense and full of really difficult things to look at or experience, I don't even want to tell you the subjects of them because sometimes they're really disturbing and morbid.
xoxo, stn

Hello Everyone,
Seems as though we are all moving through our daily lives, continuing to struggle with the love we have for our MM.

Lillybit, I'm glad you're seeing your man again, it's obvious you both have a deep love and respect for one another. No one knows what time and the future will bring. You actually may be together permanently in time when the kids get a little older and when he realized he is not with the woman he loves to be a woman he only feels obligated to. There is a song lyric that goes "and the fight will end and the world will bend, love will always win", I think that may be true in your case.

Jamie, I'm glad your relationship is continuing to go strong, I'm sorry you are tormented with worry. You are a pessimist, just as you said, but I'm the exact same way, I'm always waiting for the other shoe to fall and usually it kicks me right in the face. Your love sounds strong and it continues to grow, it definetly seems you are on a beautiful path. Every time you worry, close your eyes and hear his voice, hear him say "I love you", it will calm you. The X, she'll move on evenutally, it will just take time. When you get a chance please respond to the e-mails.

Dali, you go girl. I can see you too are getting stronger and stronger with time. You too may be with this man you love, time and fait are funny that way, but continue dating and see what is there for you, or just to have fun. When your MM realizes you are moving on he may panic and see you are the woman he loves and wants to be with.

STN, we get stronger and stronger each day don't we. Your advise and support is priceless to me and all of us. I hope your days are going beautifully.

Ladies, I wish I could find the energy to let this love go. I don't feel as weak at the moment, but am still desperate for his calls. He called me Tuesday afternoon and after a few minutes said "I'll call you back in 30 minutes". Well, that was 46 hours ago and I'm still waiting. Very typical. I wish there really was a reason for him to want to keep me as the "other woman", like the obligation to children, but they have no kids. So I just don't understand why, why be with someone who has zero compassion, understanding, appreciation, love or even passion for him and keep me alone and waiting for him, even get me pregnant. If its me he loves, why stay in a miserable realationship that he calls a "constant daily struggle". It just makes no sense to me and hurts that he'd even want to leave me hanging for something that seems so obvious. Don't worry, I don't plan on moving there, certainly not under these circumstances. I'll wait, wait until he's free (if he ever is), then maybe we'll have a chance. I do desperately want to travel to see him though I just can't figure out how to do it or if I even should.

Anyway, I'm so grateful to have such wonderful friends in you all. I love you and think and pray for you constantly.
We'll keep posting.

Much love to all! Remember you can e-mail me too [email protected]
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hi Allison,

I just wanted to say that one of the most consisten patterns I keep seeing with everyone's MM (or mostly everyone's MM) is that they really start to work to keep you only when/if they feel you pulling away or setting standards for them to live up to, otherwise you run the risk of being taken for granted and underappreciated. I don't mean to say you should turn into a nag and tell him it's your way or the highway over and over again without backing it up with actions. I just meant that if you send him indirect signals that he's being scrutinized by you, that you're giving a bit less than he's used to to your relationship and that you're starting to talk about a future that doesn't have him in it because you 'don't know when he'll ever be yours anyway' (again, say it all indirectly), I really think you'll be less likely to sit on the backburner indefinitely - especially if he is a reactionary person. BUT, if he's really unable to make a solid move in your direction now, then that's how it is. You'll have to figure out just how true you think that claim is and if you can live with it, without some kind of plan for your future together. That takes some real nerve and courage, to face that question I mean. These are just some thoughts I had on the subject, I might be wrong, but everything I'm saying is based on what I've seen most of the OW go through.

Lots of love,
STN

"I'll wait, wait until he's free (if he ever is),"

*oops*

Hello Allison,
In reading your posts I think what I can see is clear, your MM loves you and is tormented when you are apart. He is working towards a future with you, and this will take time. Does his wife know of his desire to change their situation?

The question for you is how long do you want to remain on the back burner, how long are you willing to wait. Your happiness is what's most important and if at any time the seperation when he is away from you begins to make you feel lost and desperate, that is the time to step back and be certain this is the place you want to be at this time. Day by day. You love him, he loves you, I'm not saying let go because I think it looks like you will have a loving future together. I'm just asking you to protect your heart (I know I've said that before). I don't want you to hear what I've heard from my MM about me being near him "you'll be alone for a while, I don't know how long, as long as you understand that, and I'll come over whenever I can". That completely obsolved him of all responsibility or feeling of guilt should "whenever" never happen. Don't put yourself into that trap, its a horribly painful place to be. It doesn't sound like that is where your MM is taking you, his love sounds pure and beautiful and Jamie is proof that this love can work. Patience is what you need to hold on to and listen what he tells you about his situation. Leaving the kids will be difficult, but kids bounce back adjust. People shouldn't remain in a miserable situation for the sake of the children, that will only lead to miserable children in the long run.

I don't know if I made sense enough for you but I hope so. It's a waiting game, and that is the hardest part, waiting. When you are feeling sad or lonely, remember how much he's told you he loves you, remember the feeling of your bodies together and the love you share. It will help you through the moment.

Keep us posted.
Much Love
Corinne
xoxoxo

Honey, here is the scoop from a woman who has been on the "other" end of an affair - my husband cheated on me....

1. He is LYING - cheaters creed: (my wife/hsuband doesn't understand me, won't put out, married becuase of kids)..etc...etc...etc..
2. He belongs to SOMEONE ELSE
3. Married men very RARELY leave their wives - the wives usually kick them out!
4. He has CHILDREN - do you think it is appropriate to be a part of ruining this family?
5. IF HE WILL DO IT WITH YOU, HE WILL DO IT TO YOU, don't fool yourself!!!

Do you ladies ever think about things this way:
Our MM have wives and children and day to day lives at home. This is their foundation. It's like a main meal, it's what keeps them going and it's what they go to work for in the end. Let's simplify it and just call it dinner. Having a well balanced dinner with some unpleasant tasting vegetables and maybe some decent meat might be good by itself a lot of the time, it's healthy and important --in fact, our MM were the ones who went out, bought the ingredients and cooked up their main meals by themselves ... some days they might be able to make something special of it, but most days it's just the 'usual' and so sometimes they want some chocolate cake and icecream for desert to make it more special. Just about everyone likes something sweet now and then. That's were we OW come in. We're the chocolate cake.

We're the best part of the meal, the favorite part in many ways, the most tempting part, the part that they might wish for the most...but if we start to want our MM to make us their main meal and have what they're thinking of as chocolate cake for every meal, every day instead of something solid like their main meal - well, they get sick of us and start craving their regular main meal again. They're glad to have us, thrilled to have us, so long as we remember to stay in our places as their desert and we let don't pose any threat to them having their main meals.

I'm pretty sure that's what my situation amounts to anyway. And being a chocolate cake and turning my MM into my chocolate cake isn't fulfilling for me, because I haven't been getting my main meal. So all of that chocolate and no nutrition has been making me sicker and sicker.

And maybe worst of all, I have to sit around feeling hungry at night when I know my MM is at home having his dinner and sex with his wife, telling me that I can't call him there and that I'll get some chocolate cake when he's 'able' to bring it by, meaning really whenever he feels like having some desert. I think I've had enough of chocolate cake in my life for good and he can find someone else to be his cake if he wants. For all I care at this moment, he can eat 50 chocolate cakes a day for the rest of his life, I'm done with it.
STN

Married men can be so charming; they leave all their nastiness at home with their wives and you only see the good side. I've had a couple of those kinds of relationships myself. Both times, I wound up broken hearted and the man stayed married.

If you're smart, you'll learn from my experience, and get out now. If you're the kind of person who only learns from her own experience, you'll probably hang around until the bitter end -- until his wife finds out, or until he finds another playmate. Meanwhile, you're facing years of being alone on holidays and handling crises without help.

Of course, you're probably hoping he's going to divorce his wife and marry you. But is that really what you want? To switch roles and become the one he's lying to while he's having honest pillow talk with someone else? (Believe me, men rarely change their patterns.) Even if he suddenly becomes true-blue, you'll never have him all to yourself; he'll have lifelong obligations to his former wife and family.

You deserve a man of your own, and your child deserves a real family. Tell the married man you're breaking up with him, get back into dating, and get busy with other things. It may be hard at first, because you've fallen for this guy, but the surest way to get over him is to find someone else who can be all yours.

Pie, here's an honest question -does it make *YOU* feel better to throw people's words in their faces? I can't say that it does any of the OW much good. I'm trying to understand just what's making you so interested in our troubles. It doesn't sound like you're struggling with a MM at this time, otherwise you'd know exactly why trying to find logical loop holes in the things we say doesn't really help us. Sure, not everything we say is consistent nor does it all add up nor does it all conform to how things 'should be', but so what? We're dynamic creatures, we're in a sea of pain and we need more than having our words thrown in our faces and our logical inconsistencies highlighted for everyone to see in order to get out of it. Maybe your head rules your heart right now, but one day, if you don't learn it here from us, you'll learn from some other experience that reasoning and common sense and shining a light on other people's obvious problems aren't cures for pain or self-destruction...if you want to help, your heart's got to be in it, then you'll understand.

Each time we women give of ourselves to men who are married and as well have children, it only chips away at any chance of us ever having a normal healthy relationship with a REAL man. You have to believe they still do exsist. We women are always the ones who end up with the short end of the stick, each time we cross over into territory we do not belong in, slowly but surley piece by piece a part of us dies and will never be the same again. When we women are in love whole heartedly and passionatley our sense of rationality unfortunatley at times ceases to exsist, therefore, a man can make love to you and finish inside of you and once he's through he can pull out and be on his merry way back to his family and what are we left with? I'll tell you....we are left with nothing but emptiness and longing for what we cannot have nor does belong to us.

If these men are able to be disloyal to their families. In all honesty what really makes you think he would not do the same to you? It may not be right away but some way some how the ugliness tends to repeat itself at some point.

We women need to have a backbone and not let these men rule our lives by giving us false hope and we also need to be strong and have faith that we will find someone one day who really does deserve us and who as well has not made vows to another.

Lets also get it through our heads that just because someone is claiming to be unhappily married and is giving us the greenlight to pursue, it doesn't mean it is in our right or place to take it to another level.

Sorry for the ramblings, I just needed to vent a little. Overall I am tired of reading the same stories on these boards of weak women caught up in unnessesary predicaments. I am not trying to be insulting, but the fact is we tend to be in our weakest moments when we end up in situations like most threads I have read. Thank God for a board like this one, because a lot of people end up seeing the light at the end of the tunnel once they are steered to it correctly by people who care and that truly want to help and stop this viscious cycle of infidelities.

Please feel free to respond.

After eading all of the posts, I feel compelled to reply. First, thanks to all of those who understand the pain of the wife and kids. Second, thanks for those who support the mistress--even on a contemptuous level. As a former wife of a cheater, I can honestly say that it IS a DEVESTATING situation to have a husband with a mistress. In my case, my husband started a relationship with a woman after we had been married eight years and were parents to a two-year-old.

My ex eventually left me for this woman and they were married two years ago. One of the most painful parts of this situation is that my daughter goes on visitation with her father and has had regular contact with the mistress from the start. I , on one hand, feel anger, not towards the mistress, but towards my ex. He had the wife and kid, thus I feel he had the control to end the relationship if he wanted to. Apparently he didn't or we'd still be married. Each day, I struggle with the loss of stability, the continual confusion on my child's and my part, and the other fallouts of divorce--loss of financial stability, etc. Oddly enough, I feel bad for the mistress because my ex has cheated on her just recently with some other person in the area where he lives. She (the wife) is devestated and bitter because she feels betrayed because he cheated on her. Fancy that! WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND. However, as a result of his selfish decision, his mistress (new wife) has gotten pregnant and has demanded that they move across country (2400 miles) from my daughter--who adores her dad. They recently moved and my daughter is wrecked with sadness because she feels a double rejection. I feel saddened because I am left with the fallout of a child who will grow up with these losses as part of her make-up. Mistresses listen up: THINK OF YOUR LOVERS' CHILDREN. THEY ARE INOOCENT AND THEY NEED THEIR FATHERS. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO LOSE. My daughter gets to see her father far less and she gets to see him live with his New kids and not her. She gets to miss out on regular outings with her dad--which I think are extremely important for a young girl in order to bolster her self esteem--and she gets to be the victim of the new wife's ower plays where she thinks she won some contest over who gets the man.

While I do not think her demands to move far away will make their relationship ant more stable, I do think that , again, THE CHILDREN: MY DAUGHTER AND THE EXPECTED CHILD (OR CHILDREN IF THEY HAVE MORE) WILL PAY THE HIGHEST PRICE.

Right, hmmm... this is to the woman who called Corinne "Honey":
Here's my feeling, for what it's worth. I can see why you're angry, of course I can and I'm sorry for what happened to you. You have every right to be angry as it seems. Still, I like to think that we women shouldn't antagonize each other and get angry at each other as much as we do...we share the same problem in a lot of ways. I for one am profoundly sorry about what I've contributed to my MM's mistreatment of his wife, but in the end, she's HIS wife, not mine. HE's the one made the commitment to her and broke it. HE's the one who makes me believe that he really loves me and needs me. HE pursued me relentlessly until I gave in and only then realized that, oops, he had no idea how to handle the situation. And duh, I was equally foolish, sincerely caught off guard by what this situation would cost me, how it would harm me and trap me and how unfair it was to everyone. Shame on me, and I mean that.

I shouldn't have given in and then I wouldn't have suffered as much as I have and I wouldn't have contributed to the emotional failure of his marriage. Fine, I've paid for that dearly and am going to keep paying for a long time to come. But don't forget who has their cake and eats it too? The men who say the love us but typically just love themselves at our expense, that's who. They set up a competition for us (wives vs. OW) so that the wives and the OW both sense that we need to fight for their loyalty, love, passion and affection. We women (on either side) scramble and struggle until we exhaust ourselves hoping to get some affirmation, some kind of lasting commitment and sincere investment from these men but we just keep finding ourselves right where we started, sitting in the middle of Indecision City, wasting countless hours at the curb for the bus headed down the Road to Nowhere.

And after all that, I still do believe I love my MM and that he loves me, call me a fool and maybe you're right, but the way I see it, he's just caught in his own trap and he wants me and his wife in it with him; he's not particularly happy or fulfilled either way and he's suffered like hell for his indecision and his inability to get anywhere with this situation. And his wife, well, I can only imagine. I'd like to think that we'd all have higher standards for ourselves, but maybe that's what experiences like this teach us in the end anyway. If I manage to keep my wits about me, no one is going to catch me lowering my standards ever again, especially not 'my' MM. Those days are gone and just to sum things up, I'm sorry for the pain your husband caused you, I really am and just wanted to let you know that there's no real need to tell us OW to see the things you think we should see. A lot of us are already seeing them and if not, that time will likely come on its own anyway (96% of the time MM stay with their wives and opt out of the affairs that they initiated in the first place).
STN

I had known him for a year, he was the boss's son. I knew his marriage was not going too well, but honestly never gave it a second thought. One night he was at a party I was at, with other coworkers, his wife and two young sons were out of town for a month, visiting relatives. He was flirting, but I always flirted. I was 22, a single college girl; he was 29, married for0 years.

I invited everyone over to my house to swim, he was the only one who came. When we started kissing, I felt a little weird, but the next thing I knew we were in bed. He kind of swept me off my feet, he was so into me. We spent the whole month together. No one could know!! It was truly the most exciting, wild, romantic time I have ever had, before or since. I fell hard.

But I did not want to break up his marriage, even though he insisted it was miserable. He said he didn't know if he could leave. I said I just wanted him to be happy. But I just wanted him.

I was isolated. I could tell no one. I finally confided in a friend who lived far away, he said to walk away. But lo and behold, my man did leave his wife of ten years for me. We were married a year later.

Now its 6 years later. We are still married, his kids love me, & his ex and I are friends. But it is not what I bargained for. Our life together has been hell. He started drinking, guilt maybe, and he has been in and out of rehab, court, etc. He ruined my credit. Wrecked my car. And now, at a time when I should be enjoying the fruits of my years of college, I spend my days driving him around, watching him waste away his life. I spend all my money taking care of him and his kids. I keep waiting for it to get better. R

emembering the whirlwind relationship we had. Why don't I leave?? I do still love him, despite it all, but guilt maybe. I made my bed & now I have to lie in it. If I could do it again, I would never do it again. I hope this reaches someone. I used to lie in bed praying for him to be mine. Please, be careful what you wish for. You may get it.

HI
been away for awhile, I absolutely agree with you, only I think we're just the frosting for them, hey everybody always wants the corner piece with the most frosting, but after awhile it gets to be too much and you would rather not have all that frosting. my situation hasn't changed much. i try to think of his wife and girls, do i have the right to take a father from two innocent children, no matter what he tells me. Tell me if this makes sense. We being the OW, finally get our MM, but what do we really get. I'll tell you, I think we then have to deal with having an OW (the x and children) that we will have to deal with always. I don't want to have to deal another woman in any of my relationships, but getting the MM we are inviting another woman into our lives and our relationship as long as the relationship continues. Can we as the OW deal with another woman? or would we want to, I think not. That's how I feel right now.

Regards
T

my dear STN,

you are angry, but what you say is true. we want to be that wholeome meal. and we know we have it in us to make a family work. i totally understand your pain. and the coming and going of pain and anger. i pray for all of us to heal. i pray that if our love was true, may we be gifted with a love that will keep us warm, happy and secure.
take care,
love
dali

dear Maya,

what is the difference between a married man in a unhappy relationship and a divorced man?
it is one has had the strength to move away, while the other does not.
so if you date a divorced man, you would still have the same problems? he would be commited to the family?
so are you saying one should only date never married men?
so that means if we have children, and have a past we should not date, because we have to deal with more complex family issues?

it all depends on what kind of a man you are dating. for eg. my MM does not have the strength to move away. so i am doing it. painful as it maybe i have started dating and trying to move on. but i know of my friends parents. they were in love, divorced their partners, got married, had three children... etc etc. they are still in love. no more affairs. i know my MM will not have any other affairs, he is not going to look for another woman. we happened, we did see this coming or understand how we are here. but any other similar situation and we will run far from it. so there are different people.

dali

very well said STN
i think i should show a print out of this to my MM, wonder what he will think about it

dali

hi Corinne,

how are you? i keep myself busy with work. sometimes chat with MM. it goes anyway, and these days i just say what on my mind. but really it does not change anything in him. we talk about what i am looking in the other person. and i tell him, how much damage he has done, because i am not the person i use to be. i am more reserved and aloof. while i use to be so warm. but now i am warm to him, but when i go out i am protecting myself so much. this makes me angry at my MM. because he will be a shadow for quite some time. so having your best friend and your MM rolled into one is quite a bad situation...

take care
dali

Hi STN

I read your last post about the chocolate cake and I am probably the only woman on the face of this earth who doesn't like sweets.

In my siutation I am so NOT the cake, I am the plate,fork,knife, napkin and candle when his birthday comes.
I fill-in the voids of hurt, anger, boredom and love.
I think the cake theory is right but let's dig deeper..you need eggs, flour, water all sorts of ingredients to make the cake taste good. It may look good but taste bad..so I guess what I am trying to say, depends of who your serving the cake too in the end, and how it tastes to them determines their next meal.

I hope you feel better girl.
Love Allison.

Hey STN,

I love your chocolate cake post. I think it was well said and truthful. For me, it's not even about anger. It's about realization. We have to take the blinders off and see the situation for what it is. The reality of it is they like us in small amounts. Okay, that made me laugh. Why do all our stories sound the same? I mean damn, don't you all just get tired of hearing the same ole bullshit. "I can't leave because of the kids, the finances, i'm so unhappy, she makes me miserable, she doesn't give me any sex." Sometimes, don't you just feel like saying, "please have a tall glass of shut the fuck up." I'm sorry ladies, but I'm just in that kinda mood today. It is such a waste of time and energy to devote your time to a man that belongs to someone else. Anyway, that's my rant. On another note.....Corinne, I am so proud of you. You are getting stronger each day and slowly, your MM is losing his hold on you. To all the other ladies, good luck and everyday is a work in progress.

lots of love
daniellejordan

Hi Everyone

I want to let you all know that I finally left my husband.
Not for my MM, my marriage has been dead for over a year and I have been co-existing with him but seperated.

It has been tough and continues to get worse as we sort of the financials. I was really afraid that doing this my MM would freak out and think I did it to make him be with me. My marriage was over before me & my MM started our relationship. Actually quite the opposite has happened....he confessed that our life together just took another leap forward. I think he see's the strength of me and how I am handling the situation makes it easier for him to maybe do the same ? Who knows..I am not banking on that at all. I feel a huge burden lifted, a new beginning..

It's funny...in a way I think my MM is worried because now that I am totally free and clear, I might find someone else ? The reason I say this is because of some of the things he has said to me this past weekend when it happened..check this out....

1. Your my hero
2. You a tough chick, most people would be in the crazy house by now
3. Love you, miss you, never gonna dessert you!!!
4. As long as you want me, I will be here.

Thoughts ??

Hi Tina,
You know, I once told my MM that I realized I was just his desert and that I was really looking to be someone's dinner and to have some dinner too. He actually admitted it without shame. He said, 'Yes, but I love desert, you are the sweetest desert in the world and I love you.' He wasn't even embarassed enough by this truth to lie about it and I, lovesick as I was, vulnerable and yes, weak as I was, well, I sat there in shock and began to realize just what kind of nasty trap I'd fallen into. But it's been a very long time since he and I had that discussion and the whole time in between I've just been trying to clear my head, and work up my strength and character to get to the point where I don't need positive affirmation from him so desperately that I can't actually stand on my own. I'm finally standing on my own, but with very shaky legs. So if you feel like you're strong enough to walk away from a situation that you think won't be worth it all in the end, then I'd say run like hell while you still can and don't look back. If you wait too long, you might fall into a pit of misery that will take months or even years to climb back out of. But if you think there's hope for you and your MM and this is what you really want to go for, I will be the last one to judge you negatively for that...I understand that feeling of faith and hope, and a certain kind of fear that keeps those wishes alive.
I hope you're doing all right.
Love, STN

Dear Dali,
just a quick note before i go off to sleep for the night. i often wish for the same thing for all of us too. somehow i feel that whatever we OW are guilty of, we've also paid dearly for it. i hope we all can take ourselves to much better situations soon. in fact, i already feel i'm in one because of friends like you, Corinne, Danielle and all the women here who are honest and brave enough to tell their stories and try to help each other along. i don't know where i'd be without your input and patience for letting me vent the way i do.
lots of love, stn

Daniellejordan,
you're so f***ing right! I'm in the same mood today and couldn't agree more.
We're wasting and devoting our time to men who'll never move on. They have lots of ready-made excuses, there must be a forum somewhere on the web where MMs post and support each others with useful tips on how to deal with the OW, what to say, what to do.... They've probably listed a series of reasons why they need us so much.. and why they can't leave their family. How predictable they are. But the question is, why intelligent, educated women like us are still believing them? Why do we keep thinking that they couldn't live without us? And why should we care if they can't? It's not that they are alone, we should always remember that. If they needed us so much, if they couldn't really live without us, they would be with us, period. They can live without us, they just like to have some fun from time to time, after all we keep telling them how much we love them, we're are anxiously waiting for them to show up, like faithful dogs. We flatter them. So why should they make any decision? We make them happy, they know we are here for them.
And worse, why do we think that we can't live without them? Ladies, as far as I can see here, we're miserable all the time. Our life is governed by them, they fit us into their routine, like a meeting or a dentist appointment. Do we really need that? It's not that they give us much, they won't be here for us should we need them, because they have a demanding family to care about.
Sorry for this rant. Think I'm close to be premenstrual. In any case we all know the truth. It's entirely up to us to decide whether to be miserable or to move on. Unfortunately we do have feelings which make things difficult for us. But we are all disillusioned as well.
Hope you are all ok.
Love
Lillybit

Hi Allison and Danielle,
Thanks ladies. I'm definitely in a pissy mood these days too. I keep having all kinds of dreams that are pissing me off and I definitely want to call my MM just so I could tell him to shut the f-ck up when he tells me he misses me. He had me near him and he wasted our time, big time. Now suddenly I'm more valuable because I'm gone? Fuck that. All the realizations are taking place while I sleep, and they're awful, I see clearly in all of these nightmares the things that have been cloudy in my head for about a year. It's all hitting home now that I'm far away from my situation. The anger is definitely unleashed, lucky for him he's out of my missile range. Anyway, to make a long story short, you're right about the taste of the cake. I mean, if you go around eating nothing all the time, no dinner or whatever, you're going to think that chocolate cake is 100 times better than it is if you manage to find a slice that tastes good to begin with. But if you're like our MM and getting filled up on veggies and meat at home, well, then I guess it would be a lot easier to take or leave your chocolate cake whenever you feel like it. The only time they might scramble and struggle for the cake is if they think that they might not be able to have it anymore. That probably doesn't match your thoughts exactly Allison, but in the end, all this stuff we're saying to each other is true. We OW are getting some pretty paltry meals. I think I'm going to have to change my name to PMS for the next couple of days. I am so pissed off and my self for falling into this situation and not doing a better job of getting out of it. I'm trying my best, but as you can see, some days are still torture and I haven't got the energy to fight it at the moment. And all this anger you're seeing from me, well, at the root of it all I'm just hurt and sad. Whenever I think about it all, I wish I had something nearby to kick.
Lots of love, stn

Hello to all, all my friends here, STN, Dali, DanielleJordan, Jamie, Lillybit, and Allison. I’ve seen all the new posts lately. Wow, if only we could harness the energy from all the anger and disgust from all this emotion.

Allison, it seems like you are on the right path to happiness, it takes time and may be a bumpy road from time to time, but love and happiness seem to be waiting for you at the end of that road. You’ve made that first leap, one that was the toughest, it will take time to work all the details of dissolving things with your husband out, but it will calm down in time. I like the idea of your MM squirming a little, let him squirm for you, enjoy your independence. Just remember, protect your heart.

Dali, you’ve come to a beautiful calm with your relationship. You are trying to move forward and I know how difficult that can be and will be, but it is what is best for your heart. It is true like you say, once we move away from them we become the apple of their eyes. He may realize you are the love of his life and move towards a future with you now that you’ve made him see you can move on without him. You just don’t know, you do know he loves you. Time will tell. Stay strong.

Lillybit, what has been happening with you and your MM. Last we posted together you were going to meet with him, your last post reveals you are so fed up and...well....pissed off. I do hope you are ok.

DanielleJordan, God I loved your comment of "have a tall glass of shut the f**k up", that made me laugh. All the comments you mentioned are so true "I'm so unhappy" "she's unappreciative of me, inconsiderate, has no passion" Blah Blah Blah. After they say that to us, back with them its probably "I'm so in love with you, I never want to lose this, we'll grow old together". WHATEVER. So, can give my MM a glass of that. Thanks for making me laugh.

Jamie, I hope you are well, I miss you. Please let us know how things are going. I do love you.

STN, you know it all. We are in this together and will get through it together.

As for me, I'm holding on. My MM put me through days of no communications and it nearly destroyed me again, our good friend STN helped me through it. He called over the weekend and we talked some but more and more I can see I mean just one thing to him, nothing but sex. His cake, his corner piece, and the coffee afterwards. Virtually, I'm Starbucks, he stops by from time to time, drops a load and goes back to his life and his home cooked meal complete with candles, music, the soup, salad and main dish..HER. He called me again today, just briefly, (just to keep me hanging on I suppose) and for some reason I find myself sounding and feeling desperate from the moment he says hello. All the strength seems to fall apart and I'm grasping at words to "keep" him interested. What my head wants to say is I'm done, stay away from me, forget we have a child together and lets move on. He said he'll call me later..I don't think I should hold my breath. He'd actually told me (yep, told me)a while back to tell my family and friends I'm in love with someone and have to go, not revealing of course who that someone is or where I was even going, and yet he won't tell her the same..why? I'm a nieve 40 year old little girl who fell in love with this man when I was a young girl and I'd believe anything he told me, losing all sense and sensibility. I'm his puppet. Do I feel guilty about her, no, actually I was in his life first but the timing was off for us and after his first marriage desolved (not as a result of me in any way) we were at a place in our lives that made it impossible to be together, she was only the next best thing, my sloppy seconds. There are no other kids to be hurt in our situation. The problem is, she won, she has him, has his last name and I'm still out in the cold with soggy cake and cold coffee. Misserable and soaking wet, so even though she doesn't even know I exist, she gets the last laugh. I guess my last laugh will be, she's stuck with him, I'm not.

For those wives who’ve posted with their harsh realities. I’m sorry you’ve been hurt, and not knowing your circumstances, it’s hard for me, or any of us, to offer any clear thoughts. You must realize every situation is different and there are two sides to every story. The women on this site did not force themselves on anyone and often fought the advances of the man as long as they could. It is the MAN who stepped out of bounds and went too far, pushed too hard. As for my situation, I have his child, but I kept that child from him to protect him, to not be the reason to come between he and his first wife. That may have been a mistake, and I believe I really hurt him in the long run as a result. I told him recently only because now seemed like the right time, he told me he loved me, wanted a life with me, has always loved me, made me believe all those things, he lied. Again, I was wrong and I’ll pay for that for the rest of my life, fortunately our child will never know of him, will never be hurt by him. So you can see we, the OW , hurt too and are constantly hurt by these men who have taken advantage of us in our most vulnerable times. Our circumstances are just as difficult, if not more, and not created to hurt you or anyone else.

Be well my friends and keep posting. For you wives, I’m sure there is another supportive site for you to go to with friends as wonderful as these ladies have been to me for your circumstance. You really don’t belong here, we are not your sounding board, that is not the purpose of this site and WE are not the ones that hurt YOU. I do hope you find peace and happiness, I hope we all do.

Much love,
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hey STN, Lillybit, and all the other ladies. I got this off of a message board. A male shared his reason for cheating and it matched exactly with what a lot of us say and what our MM say as well about the breakdown of marital relationships.

So here's one of the questions that constantly gets asked around the social circles and message boards. Seems as if somebody finally decided to drop the science on this issue so many women seem to wonder about. Let's hope it helps bring a level of understanding to the issue. This is in no way meant to be an excuse for the actions some of us partake in so let's not start another flamewar here. I'd also really love to hear the female's perspective on why some women cheat (in another thread). Read on.

Q: (Female X) Just wondering why do men get into a relationship with a woman knowing that you are going to be creeping around? Why not just keep it casual and let it be known to the woman that you are not together? Some of you actually have the audacity to get married and STILL cheat. The point of getting married is to finally settle down with one person. Now if you know that you still want to play games and not settle down then someone please explain to me why ya'll men do that shit? If you want to cheat on a female why not cut the her loose and do your thing with the other female you want? Lots of you male cheaters talk about it like it's something to praise. I personally just never understood the logic behind it especially from grown ass men. Explain!

A: (Male X) This is a single truth that will cover a question that has many answers. Many men and women refuse to acknowledge and understand their differences. When a man gets married, he looks at the relationship up to that point and says "This a woman I could spend the rest of my life with." He looks back and sees the fun and the excitement that they had while dating. He thinks that it will continue. When he considers his options, he knows that, ultimately, his woman wants the security of marriage. Not necessarily what he wants, but something he is willing to give to her out of love. So, in proposing, a man is giving his woman a great gift, his freedom. But he does so under the thought that their relationship will not change and marriage is just a contract of commitment. Most men, when they cheat, see the dynamics of their relationship change. Many women marry men for love, also a great deal, for potential. They set out hoping that their men will conform to their expectations. Many women think that they can change the true nature of their man. Men hope that what it is about their woman that led them to marriage doesn't change. Both are wrong to an extent. For example, many women will be the perfect sex partner, the perfect friend, but for many different reasons, they tend to let that passion for their man drop off. Be it work or children or any other external forces that cause them to be distracted from what should always be first and primary, their man. They start to take things for granted, saying to themselves "I can deal with him later" or "now that I'm married, I don't have to do the things that caused him to make the decision to marry me". They don't realize that men look at this and say to themselves, "what the hell happened? I thought I had the woman of my dreams and now it's like I'm married to a different person". Now the conditions that lead a man to commit no longer exist. Now he is looking for the stress-free passion, love and excitement that no longer is in his relationship. People don't realize that there will always be changes in their relationship and they have to be able to discuss them openly and honestly, without fear of rejection, and be able to compromise to each person's satisfaction.

Many times, by the time we've come to this conclusion, we've accumulated possessions and property, and most often, children. That prevents a man from being able to make a clean break. Divorce will never benefit the man, so that's no an option. Then one day,he meets a woman who reminds him of the time when his life and relationship was less complicated. He becomes attracted to her and now he has a decision to make. Morally, cheating is wrong because you made a commitment to your woman, before the eyes of God. But men will see it as his woman misrepresented herself when they were dating and now everything changed. The decision we made to get married was based on false information! Since divorce isn't a viable option (whether it be love, finances, children or religion), men will seek fulfillment through an affair.

Now I will admit that this thought doesn't fit all situations, but I bet many will.

Hi ladies,
I've been reading around the internet a lot lately and have found tons of interesting information about what men want, how to keep a man after you've got him and why they cheat. Basically it all boils down to this: men love women who make them feel good, that's the bottom line, that's the foundation of every other interaction, but it gets tricky to maintain their respect if you don't know the other facts: after this basic truth, it seems that most men prefer women who act like ladies in the front room and their bitches in the bedroom (sorry for the vulgarity, but I can see the truth in this) and they fight for women who make them live up to standards of respect and never ever appear too needy and insecure, never give too much of themselves, never lose themselves in the kind of lovesickness that some of us here have. And we women have to be clever enough to make sure that romantic love and sex stay joined in a man's mind, because if given the chance, he'll often just reduce the woman to a part-time sex object because he can. And if the woman wants a man to face the un-fun realities of maintaining a relationship, well, she's still got to be smart enough to find a way of doing that that keeps him feeling good...otherwise we turn into the 'nags', the ones who bring them down from their selfish teenage desire to always feel like things are uncomplicated, fun and exciting for them. It turns out that we women are just supposed to praise anything that they do if we like it, and not talk directly about the crappy stuff. All the sites I've read suggest that this is the magical formula for getting a man to behave better. HA! Now I really am pissed.

Is it me, or does it really start to look like there's a lot of truth to the old saying that 'it's a man's world.' ? I mean, what powers do we women possess against a situation like this??! I think the powers used to be called feminine wiles and believe me, I'm ready to learn them and start using them since I can accept now that in dealing with men is like dealing with an alien species. I only wish my grandmother were still alive to teach them to me, my mom knew nothing about them and worked against them as far as I can tell, she after all came of age during the sexual revolution. She thought she could afford to throw all of that ancient wisdom away, as if suddenly men had changed just because we women were finally allowed some freedoms after millennia of being forced to stay at home?! No, if you ask me, the face of the world might have changed with the sexual revolution, but the brains underneath it have all been hardwired since time began to keep relationships between the sexes just as we're finding them still. Danielle, your post from the internet was right, men and women are coming at this from very different directions and perspectives. I think the best chance we have is to recognize this and to learn what will work for us in these situations we get into with men and then decide whether or not it's worth it all in the end.

love, stn

Hello ladies!
DanielleJordan, the reply of that man seems very realistic indeed. I guess this is what happens to most marriages. But this doesn't justify the cheating. So, what he says is basically true, their wives let them down for some reason or another (and they probably let their wives down as well) and it's also true that women want to get married more than men do. They are seeking a settlement. But while women are aware that their relationship will somehow change due to routine, children etc., men aren't. Or if they are, they refuse to acknowledge that. But what this man failed to say is that they get used to the security a marriage and a family offers. They realize that the passionate woman they married has simply turned into a wife and so they look for that passion somewhere else. What this man didn't say is that they will never leave their families, but not because of financial problems, children etc., but because they still want to stay in their marriage. My MM said that he loves his wife in that quietly respectful used-to-each-other way.
Let's face things once forever: many people get divorced, it's not uncommon. If they don't get a divorce it's because they don't want to. If their wives divorced them, they would accept it. Men don't make any decision, they let things happen. The best scenario for them is to have both the family and the lover. If the lover dumps them, well they will soon find a replacement, it's just a matter of time. Basically, aside from a very few cases, we will never be able to get more than we have now.
Corinne, what you say is true. I feel angry these days, I'm premenstrual. I still love my MM, but I'm also so fed up to be the last thing in his life. This week we won't probably see each other, too many things for him to do, work mainly because he needs the money to pay the mortgage of the house he bought with his beloved wife. So there is no time for me, unless I meet him for a couple of hours miles away from here. Of course he's sorry. So as you can see, there are so many things that come first. And right now I don't feel like seeing him this week. I might change my mind of course.
As for you, I hope you'll find the courage (and sooner or later you will) to tell him exactly what you think. In the meantime, if I were you, I wouldn't mention to my family that I love another man. According to him, you should tell your family you're madly in love with another man (but without revealing his name of course), pack your things, and reach him wherever he is. It goes without saying that he won't do the same with his wife. You could regret it forever. Corinne what I really hope for you is that one day this spell you're under will definitely break, allowing you to see how mean this man is.
STN, we're both premenstrual these days and as angry as ever. We should take advantage of this situation and tell our MMs to go to hell once forever.
Allison, you're the proof of what I've always thought and said: it's us women who make the most difficult decisions. You divorced your husband because you felt your relationship was over. This is the difference between us and men: a man would have never done that! You're very brave and I wish you all the best.
Talk to you all very soon.
You all take care
Lots of love
Lillybit

I am i n love with a married man