Re: not so brave

It sounds like you are doing all you can to get out of the situation. Believe me I completely understand how difficult that is. Our relationships with our MM are very similar, and both equally as painful to live with and without. It is good you are going to counseling, that will definitely help.

You say you now have a loving husband and are focusing on him, that your MM doesn’t love you. Continue focusing on your husband, realize the love and happiness you have and will have in the future with him. Your MM hasn’t left his wife for you, chances are he won’t, leaving him behind as a memory you can smile on seems best. Should you lose your husband for your MM chances are you’ll be shacked up as his little sex puppet which will only make him happy and destroy you in the long run.

You are doing all you can, you can’t help loving your MM and thinking of him 24/7, believe me I know, I too can not stop thinking of my MM. Recently I realize too that he doesn’t love me, he just wants the erotic sex we talk about and he too wants me shacked up in an apartment near him, he talks about that all the time. I realize I would only wind up his sex puppet and am trying to avoid the temptation of being closer to him.

Focus on your marriage, hold on to that love tightly. My love for my MM, even though my husband doesn’t know about him, is one of the things destroying my marriage bit by bit and I can’t stop it. It of course isn’t the only thing destroying it, but it doesn’t help. Try and make your MM memories just that, memories and let him go. When you think about him, remember the happy times fondly but keep them at bay, bringing him closer again will only hurt you.

Be happy and best wishes!

CB

speaking of holidays, yes i am another woman deeply in love with a married man, that i have been seeing for over 2 years, we had worked together, I cannot face another holiday without him, he had givin me his word, we would be together this xmas, financials reasons are the problem here, he has even gone as far as going to an attorney, and now see's wow he has to come up with big bucks, in my heart, i know he loves me, and wants us together, but none the less this is so painful, when i hear him cry when i tell him, i am done, i get angry, maybe i am different, i will do anything for him, i did leave my home let me ad, i wasnt married, but with my fiance for 7 yrs, who was a cheater himself, nice huh? but i left, and basically have become homeless, living with different family members, i couldnt stay with my ex, and see my MM,i cannot do that.
but here i am suffering, angry, hurt, etc you nam it, i am feeling it...

this is the situation that we as other women put ourselves in, they will never be all "ours". If they have been married for 10, 15, 20 or more years the wife, children will ALWAYS be part of their lives, always. They have lied to their wivers and we are also being lied to. I feel we should all stand up and give them the boot in the ass and turn our back on them. Who knows how much they truly have cheaten on us and their former spouse, we wll always be lied to and come in second best if that. I know i deserve more it hurts and i have made to choice to put myself first, i am going to ask my mm to leave, we share a home now but i know he still sees his ex, he's lied to my face about, i've come to the conclusion that that they chronic liars and become so entangled in their lies that they can't even keep them straight, they want their cake and eat too.

Hello CB,
If you look back at some of the previous posts, you'll see that I once suffered through what you are going through. STN, Samantha, and myself were in it deep together and we tried to keep each other encouraged. After a 1.5 years of hurt and pain, I made a decision that no matter how much I loved this man, I was going to love myself more. It's just that simple. It hurts like hell, but it hurts more to be in that constant limbo. The MM is never going to give you what you need. And if you're "lucky" and he leaves his wife, what are you really getting? So how do you stop loving him? Or not loving him as much? Just start loving yourself more. The rest will follow. Good luck!!

Oh and to add to my story...They've only been married 5 years, which scares me that he was out and cheating so fast. I guess I'm scared to trust him, and I can't believe I got myself into this mess. When I'm with him, he's sweet and loving and kind. We enjoy a lot of things together...going to the beach, concerts, eating out, wine tasting parties. He's a lot like me and has been very successful in his career, so I know he's worried about finances, with this divorce. And so when I'm with him I feel I can trust him. But then when we're apart, I am plagued by doubts. And I worry he's going to change his mind about the divorce...and before you ask, I know that it's really filed - those petitions are public record, I went online for my state (CA) and saw that she filed for divorce in mid-October. I think he's just mostly concerned about having to pay child support and alimony for her and his two boys - he doesn't mind the child support, but he doesn't want to be plagued by maintenance issues as well... sigh. It's so complicated. I wish I'd walked away before I fell so hard for this man...

this was so wrong.

Thank you Danielle for your advise and good wishes. I'm trying to love myself but the desperation to talk to him and be with him always takes over. I'm trying, trying to work him out of my heart. Being so far away from him you would think that would make it easier but it doesn't, when I don't hear from him I worry what has happened, is he hurt, is he mad at me, has he decided he's so in love with her he's just cut me off, will he ever call again. These thoughts continue to haunt me and thoughts of him consume my thoughts so badly that I find myself in conversation with someone and realize I have no idea what they just said.

I'm lost, sad, alone, confused and hurting. I just want to make it stop. I love him so desperately and at the same time don't want to. This all just hurts so much.

STN,
Girl..... your words, spirit, and progress have truly moved me today. I am so happy that you have found your "place" in the midst of the chaos we found ourselves in. It is still a challenge everyday for me (cause lord knows i loved the fool), but I am so proud when I look at how far we have come.

XOXO
daniellejordan

Hi guys,
I'm facing the same prob as all of u out there...in love with a married man and it sucks..those secret short dates-i even attended his wedding! U guys actually said all the things i've done, felt..i wish i had someone for support...i know its my fault for falling in love with such a man..but..i really cant step out of it..its been nearly 2 yrs..

Hello STN and Danielle,
I wanted you to know that I took all your wonderful words to heart. I also want you to know I sang in the car on the way home yesterday. The last few weeks I've cried all the way home, wrapped up in the pain and sorrow of the situation with my MM. So sad with thoughts of things he's done and said lately, longing for it to be the way it was during spring and summer. Yesterday was different, I felt awakened to see the situation in a different light, to see him in a different light. I have a feeling right now he is going through a very tough time if it is in fact true that his wife left him, and dealing with me and our feelings through that is too much for him, which is likely why he hasn't called except to ask me if I've called or mailed him anything. Realizing how hurt and upset he must be over the loss of his wife has also made me realize he has no love for me at all and all the love he is capable of for her. At least I do know he doesn’t have love for me in a sincere romantic way, he wants me, he wants to f**k me, he doesn’t want to make love to me, I truly don’t think he ever did. I’m glad to know that his wife’s leaving also had nothing to do with me, she didn’t know we were talking and ultimately that is all it was, talking.

I do love him, I know I always will. Why, I don’t know, I guess hearing him say over the past many years of how he loves me keeps me loving him. I’m sorry if he’s hurting now, I wish I could help him, as a friend, find happiness. That isn’t possible. Our physical desire for eachother will always get in the way of any love or friendship we could ever have. I’m going to focus on making things right where I am now and move on. I’m grateful that I didn’t become physical with my MM again, I guess it’s true, there is a reason for everything.

I’ll let you know how things move on and if I’m able to stay on this new path without my MM. I’m sure he’ll call me again some time when he comes out of this mess he’s in (with our without his wife) and that will be the great test for me. If I hear his voice will I fall into his web again? I do hope I’m strong enough to stay out of it, and I actually hope now he works things out with his wife, he obviously loves her.

Thank you STN, and you too Danielle. Your words of wisdom are definitely something that has helped me to respect myself and try to move on. I’ll keep you both in my prayers for happy times. We’ll all keep in touch.

Corinne

First of all it isn't YOUR fault for falling in love with him. You were in need of something he seemed to be offering. We have NO control of who our heart falls in love with. Sometimes it is right, and sometimes it is wrong but either way, it happens. I had a physical relationship with my MM for 2 years before he moved away and we've kept it going just over the phone now for almost 18 years. I love him, with every part of my being, but that love hurts usually all the time. If your MM hasn't left his wife by now for you, it is unlikely he will, even if he says so. Remember he is likely telling her she's his one and only as well. Try and do as STN and Danielle have told me, learn to love yourself, realize you deserve better. It is hard and hurts like hell to let go of someone you love. It will take time, belive me I know, I'm working on it myself. Read some of STN's recent entries, they are very helpful in helping you reflect on the situation.

What's best for you sound like getting away from the MM. You love him, you always will, but he will take you no where but to a painful place you don't want to be.

Best wishes to you. Keep us posted on how you are doing. The women on this site are good people and we all seem to be able to understand eachother with compassion and without judgement. We are all in it together and can perhaps get out of it together.

CB

Hi 81pyldj262...

I have posted a couple of times but no advice to me has been given I just read all the posts, which lately the majority of them are stories of leaving the MM.

I am still with my MM, we just hit a year and I am happy, things seem to be falling into place, I am hear to lend an ear if you wish, tell me about your story.....

Hi STN,
I'm having a particularly sad moment so I thought I'd take a moment to write. It is mid afternoon here and the 3 "usual" times my MM would call have all passed without so much as a ring. I can't help but wonder where he is, what is he doing. Is he hurting, begging her to come back, making love with her, forgotten about me? 4 days ago he called me 11 times, 11. Now I only heard from him that one time to see if I called his job, in 4 days. I don't understand why he doesn't call when he knows how I care and how I worry about him. Then again, showing how he doesn't care about me, he wouldn't call if he was trying to work it out with her. Why am I so blind, why did I let myself believe all he said, the beautiful things he said he felt about me and wanted to share with me. Why are those very things hurting me so badly now. Why does he so obviously not give a shit about me, what I'm feeling and what he does to me. It's so unfair, I was in his life long before her, hell she was just a kid when he and I first got together, why is she who gets to push me out of his heart. That is selfish of me isn't it, he did ask me to marry him years ago, just before her, but I couldn't at the time. Maybe I can feel better knowing at the time she was his second choice, but she wins now.

I'm just so sad and confused, I understand so little and know nothing of what is going on. I didn't even get a chance to say good bye, although I don't know if that would have been easier or not. Good bye's are so painful. Maybe it is good that the last real conversation we had he said "love you, good night" rather than I'm over you, I'm in love with her, good bye. I don't know. I'm sorry, I'm just feeling lost at the moment, I so desperately want the phone to ring and hear his sweet voice.

Corinne

Hi again ladies,

It's a new day here and I'm feeling a little panicky, so I thought I'd write. Sometimes I lose my perspective and get really nervous about all kinds of things related to my MM. I guess I'm okay at the moment, but I'm trying to fight off that feeling by writing here. I'm probably just going to ramble, so please don't feel like you have to read it (I write too much as it is:)! So my latest plan is to plan a trip to the Himalayas for next October. I've always wanted to go there, to the 'roof of the world' and go hiking (I'm actually afraid of heights, so I'll be taking the light and easy trails, but whatever). I feel like if I can get through this emotional disaster I've been going through, I should go and stand on top of the world, looking down on snow-capped mountains, forests and glaciers, like someone who won a gigantic battle. Just the idea of fresh air and clean water is appealing by itself. There was actually a time this past summer when even seeing wind blowing through the leaves of a tree hurt me and made me cry; I think during that time I wanted all the beautiful things in the world out of my life - I couldn't even pet a cat or dog, I just turned away from everything, food, sleep, water...everything. I'm not sure what was making me do that, but I'm glad that I'm interested in my life's goals again, going to the Himalayas is defintely one of them.
To be honest Corinne, I think your separation is going to be something that takes a mountain of energy and willpower to deal with. I've loved my MM for many years, but never like I have in the past year - we were never intimate before this past year and just getting over a year-long attachment is taking everything I've got. I just don't know how things will go for you after 18 years and a child. I'll be here for you in any way I can.
xoxo, STN

Hi Allison, Ive read your recent posts and Im glad everything is going great for you! Ive talked to you before and I think our stories are very similar...can you do me a favor and email me at Paradiselvr8887@yahoo.com I would like to chat further with you!

Hi all,
I am 81plydJ, some annoymous name given by e forum. anyway, I will log in as Jgirl now.
I am really glad that u all responded to me and very touched by the way u gals support one another... I always thought no one understands and I have no one to talk to cos this is nothing to be proud of and at times I am simply ashamed at myself for falling for a 2 timer.

My MM jus got married last mth. I met him 2 yrs back when he was engaged and many times he wanted to stop contacting me but did not eventually. He loves me, but he can readily give me up for his wife. I know it, cos he often mention :" In future if we can't meet up or..." He'd nv leave her for me and he made it very clear frm the beginning of the relationship.
I'm young, attractive and have got many suitors but I cant seem to bring myself to go out on dates with those guys. even if i do go out, my heart is with him and at times i really feel that i'd rather be alone than be with someone else i have no feelings for. I know u all must be nodding ur head and agreeing with me. Thats the trap we are in, and i really wanna get out of it.

Do u ladies ever wonder...perhaps if we really had a chance to live with the MM in our lives, we might realise in time to come that they are not the one we thought we wanted? Cos our relationship with them are so flowery without commitments and very less fights, therefore the times spent are full of joy and sexual pleasure without worrying abt kids, money, job...

Jus to share a short story with u guys..I have an aunt i live with, she's 67 and she had been with her MM for over 40 years! He comes over once in awhile, only to have lunch or sex and thats all. He comes over when he feels like it and i see him text my aunt:"IM BUSY TODAY" "NO TIME" on her cell.

I often question myself: Do i wanna be like her when i'm her age? Alone everyday during retirement, no one to share her woes with, and having to give in to an old man's sexual desires even after menopause?!
She wasted her youth on him and I am sure, she regrets. If she could turn back time, I'm sure she'd grit her teeth and move on and meet some other guys and have a companion she loves who loves her in return now.

I seriously do not want to wait till im old and all my frens are married and no one wants me... and before i know it i have given up all my opportunities for a guy who might jus say:"hey, this isnt getting us anywhere..its hard but we got to move on".

It sure is hard..and I really admire U brave gals who even initiated to stop meeting up with ur MM. U gals are so brave. I cant do it... He seem to be the reason i live, the reason i work, the reason i drive, the reason I am me. THe one in control of my life is him, and i seriously hate that feeling.

For u gals who have started to move on, congrates and dont look back!! Keep moving on..u'd get there. The hardest is to take the 1st step out, which I can't seem to do.................

Hello again STN
It is afternoon here now, the time where about 4 usual call times have passed and, as much as I'd love to tell you my MM called, he hasn't. I can almost hear some of the judgmental people I've seen on this site saying get over yourself he isn't going to call. Yes I know I'm the other woman, yes I know he has a wife who he is probably trying desperately to get back to now that she has made herself the one turning away (just like you said he might do to me). That doesn't make it any easier. I have to admit I tried to call him from what I know was an unidentifiable number, but no one answered. I can't help but wonder was he there and just didn't answer because he knew it was me or is he truly out. It is at a time of day he'd be home alone so it is one or the other, he's ignoring me or...well....he's ignoring me. There is so much history between us, so many years and emotions shared and felt, even our child. I just don't understand why he is just cutting me off like this, complete and total shut out. I feel like I'm spinning out of control, my heart breaks more and more with each passing moment. Sometimes I feel like I can’t breath, like I’m suffocating and wind up in a ball on my knees. I love him, I love him so much and I can’t believe he is done with me so quickly and abruptly. We shared feelings, love, mailed eachother notes and things, we talked about the future and the past, memories and beautiful dreams. When we hung up on Sunday he said “I love you, good night” and that was it. How the hell did I go from that to being the outsider. He was so afraid of some pictures he’d sent to me that once I saw them I’d say good bye. That was as recently as a week ago, he was so afraid I would no longer be interested. I told him I loved him and nothing would change that and after I saw them I still loved him, I told him even more then before. What the hell is happening? I’m so lost, the pain is just too much. Why does he not care I was there Monday when he wanted me to be and we didn’t catch up with eachother, how could he not care that we have a child together, how and why is he doing this.

Hello again STN,
I noticed that my first post today didn’t seem to make it on the page. I can’t remember all I said on there but I agreed with you that a trip to the Himalayas sounds like a beautiful idea, it would be very therapeutic for you. I’m so happy that you are able to realize your MM loves you and that the two of you have just come to an understanding that your hearts will always be one but you lives can never be together. That is a painful definition for you I know, but knowing you love him, and he loves you just as much will hopefully bring you some comfort and peace.

I find great peace visiting the ocean. I love everything about the shoreline and find it so serine and tranquil. Unfortunately peace like that for me brings memories of my MM. You know we started talking this spring, and prior to that it had been about a year and a half that we had spoken. I always would think about him during that time, where he was, was he happy but somehow I always knew he still loved me. Now that our communications became so very frequent and our expressions of love became much more intense I’m crushed at the loss of it. I regret ever contacting him this past spring, I supposed I should have just let it alone even though he has repeatedly asked me why I waited so long to call. Now that I think he’s gone quiet time is unbearable. I can hear his voice so clearly in my head telling me he loves me, that he needs me, that he wants me. Beautiful words he said to me. I’m haunted by them.

I hope the planning of your trip continues, it sounds beautiful. You are on a wonderful path to happiness and peace, the memories of your MM will be beautiful and love will find you, be sure of that. I hope you enjoy your weekend.

Corinne

Hi JGirl,

I just wanted to write a quick note to say that yes, I think you're right, we probably would see the down-sides to our MM if we were actually married to them...but somehow I'd rather be with my MM with all of his faults than alone or with someone I love less. And that's the trick for me and it sounds like you too - that is to find someone you love as much as you love your MM. I can't do it. I finally just told myself, after months of agony, that it will be healthier for me to be alone for the rest of my life than it would be for me to keep wanting a life with him. But that decision is so painful, especially in the beginning, that it's almost impossible to make it straight out. Pulling away little by little worked better for me because I just wasn't able to find the strength to do it any faster. The problem is that I live where my MM works, so I just can't escape him long enough to make a clean break.
I think you're thinking along the right lines: you definitely don't want to end up like your aunt, that situation sounds so sad. I don't know what it is with these men who treat us all like spare tires or side-dishes. Do we all have signs on our foreheads that say 'Please mistreat me'???! I don't get why they think it's okay to give us so little and expect so much and I don't get why we're willing to do it - but God help us, we are. How do other women get men to treat them better? I think I missed the boat, I just don't get it. I don't meet men I like and finally, when I did fall in love, it was with someone who had nothing to offer me other than occasional affection and lots of adoration...and lots of pain and suffering.
Don't be too hard on yourself if you can't make that first step away from your MM right now. It's a good sign that your mind is willing and hopefully your emotions will learn to follow your head, little by little or even suddenly and all at once. It sounds like your at the very beginning of a horribly hard but healthier path.
By the way ladies, Corinne and Danielle, I just found out that I'll be on assignment back here in the Middle East next year...living in the same spot I'm in now after an 8 month stint in Italy. That means I'll be around my MM again for about 16 more months starting next July or August. This news would have made me so happy at one time, and now it makes me feel like I'm going to be thrown back in prison, the mental and emotional prison that I've been in for so long and have tried so hard to escape. I just can't believe it. In some ways I'm just hoping that the time I spend in Italy in between will help me make all the necessary adjustments so that when I come back, none of this will feel so hard. UGgh!!! Maybe I should just quit my damn job and get a new life all together.
Anyway, JGirl, take good care of yourself and we'll be here waiting to hear how you're doing.
xoxo, STN

Hello STN and all,
Trust me i know exactly how u feel..in fact we all do know how one another feel n im so glad theres a place like this for all of us to come together..

Stn: I know that im thinking on e right track but like all of us here, our brains tell us something but our heart tells us another.
It seems like each time we and our MMS wana pull away..there are loads of other factors that keeps us together, don u all agree? I wonder why...well there might be lots of reasons.. Should we really surrender to this??cos it seems not matter how hard we try we jus tire ourselves out. And things jus go back to square one again.

Jus wondering if any of u know any women with MMs and the managed to leave their MM for someone else better,more worth it??
COs it seems that most Other women like jus, hardly move on ....

hello dear STN,

Was reading on lost out time... was having problems with my computer back home. well i am degected you did not miss me :-(... but good to hear you are doing better.
me i finally broke off day before yesterday. i go from quite to a raving manic. but i am going to get through this. Men are such weak creatures and selfish creatures. i have been home, sitting and crying, took off, wanted to sleep but could not. when the hurt comes its like a tide, you cry and cry, and then peace for a little while.
he calls, and says sorry, but does that really help... says he wants to help me with the pain... etc but what help is he 2000 miles away... so i told him not to call... it only reminds me of what i do not have, and makes me mad with grief.

i dont know if he will get more loving etc... as everyone on this site suggests, as you start drawing away, so i have no idea what i will feel then... there is a part of me that hates him, he was my best friend of 11 years, how could he do this to me? how could he do this if he was never going to tell his wife. he knows how much hurt i have been through in my life... i keep asking that to him, and myself... he says he just fell in love, and thought he will find the courage do the right thing, but he never did, and does not think he will... he says all the wonderful stuff, and i wonder what all does he tell his wife?

i totally understand when you say you cry on streets, me too, cant stop the tears sometimes... but it will get better, it will... it has to

to all the suffering women here, keep your faith it will get better, we need to learn to love ourselves more

take care

dali

Hello Jgirl,

You and I are in the same place in that we both know in our heads that we need to pull away from our MM and at the same time our hearts have a stronger hold on what we feel and do.

I can't offer great advise as STN does on how to accomplish pulling away and finding that greater place, it is a difficult process and one I'm in the middle of right now as you are. My relationship with my MM took a bad turn a couple of months ago and his sincerity has deminished to nothing but erotic sexual thoughts. It seems you've at least have made the first step and first realize that you will need to pull away, doing it is something entirely on its own and takes great time and patience. It hurts, don't get me wrong, it hurts like hell, but realizing we deserve better is our first step. I am trying but I'm so desperately in love with my MM that the idea of being without him seems paralyzing. Time will decide what destiny holds for us.

I'll keep you in my thoughts for peace and happiness. I look forward to continuing communicating with you.

Corinne

Jgirl and Corinne
Well STN knows my motto. Fuck em. I say it and i'm going to keep saying it. I cut my MM loose after 1.5 years and I've never been happier. I get angry Corinne when I hear how upset you are. He is not worth all this pain and agony; taking you through all these changes. Ask STN, I yelled at her all the time for letting her MM drive her emotions. Corinne, the next time he calls you, tell him to take a "one-way trip to hell." I guarantee he will start blowing your phone up calling you 20-30 times a day. I speak the truth..... STN is my witness. And yes, I keep it real. I'm not all warm and fuzzy like her (love you girl). But aren't you sick of this motherf*cker taking you through all this BS. Get angry about it, dammit. Ain't nobody goin give you better unless you demand better.

I gotta bring the quote out... Never make someone a priority in your life while allowing yourself to be their option.

Ladies, it's all love..... just a lil bit a tough love. Love ya'll

Hello Smarter Than This,
I have been meaning to respond to your postings. In a way, I guess I never responded because it seems as though you got it all together. Your MM is actually getting a divorce. The majority of us on this board would love to have accomplished that. Or at least I know I would have. So I really didn't know how to respond to your post. But on this board, we stick together...so if you need advice and the like, we need to be here for you as well. I understand the "trust" issue, but you have to let that go. You know how you met him, so just look for the warning signs and go from there. You were once the OW, so you know exactly what to look for. If you'd like to talk more about it further, just hit me back and I'll respond. Just so I know you're still around (before I post a long message) since no one initially responded to your post.

Hello Dali,
It is wonderful to see you back on the site, I've wondered what happened to you. I'm sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time. You've given me inspiration and an understand heart, I hope I can do the same for you.

You are correct in we all need to love ourselves a little more, and move on. The pain of accepting we can not be with the one we love can at times be overwhelming, but with each day comes more acceptance and understanding. You MM loves you, move on with that, no argument, no hate, just the love you have and the understanding that it isn't your destiny. We are all learning destiny and fate are harsh sometimes and don't always hand us what we most desire. So as you've told me, love yourself, love your MM and remember all the good that your realtionship brought you trying not to focus on the what if's and if only's.

I'm traveling down the same path, my MM is 600 miles away, he's alone now (for the time being), angry and depressed and yet still unwilling to come get me (like I told you before). He said to me "come and get me, if you loved me you'd be here, talk is cheap". I'd love to hear him say "my life is open to you, I love you so much I'll wait for you, we'll spend the rest of our days together". No, I hear he's tired of the BS, he wants to F**K me (I've always preferred making love, f**k sounds so dime store hookerish). Anyway, he's hurting right now and in turn hurting me. STN has given me some great insite on how to follow the path to peace but it is a bumpy path and full of harsh reality. I don't know if my MM loves me but it sounds like your's loves you. Keep him and the happiness you shared with him in your heart, it will help you move on.

We'll communicate soon, take care of yourself and try to be happy.

CB (Corinne)

Dali!
I'm so glad you're back. To be honest, I thought that things were going so well for you that you just decided not to remind yourself of the painful times by writing here again. Anyway, I'm really sorry you've hit on difficult times with your MM. I've also been pretty angry about my MM's not being 'able' (or willing) to find a way to keep me. There's something inside me telling me, at this point, that I'm going to be glad I made the break, but I feel so betrayed that he hasn't done more to make things viable between us. It's a real let down, I'm so disappointed in him in this respect...even though I know there's not a lot he can do, I wish he at least gave the appearance of having tried absolutely everything...he hasn't really made me feel that way, I sense more that he's giving up and doing what's easiest for him. But like I said, there's no real way for things to work with us right now anyway - he's got 6 kids to send to university and he's married to his cousin. those are ties that bind for a lifetime. I'm not sure that he gets more 'loving' when I pull away, I meant to say that he gets more manipulative, he tries to get me dependent on him again when I start to back away...but this just means he starts doing everything he knows I want him to do. I guess I'm being hard on him tonight, but in many ways this is pretty much true. I think I'm just trying to say I get why you feel hurt and disappointed in your MM, I get it completely. This bad feeling of disappointment has actually helped me get over him that much faster (not easier, but it's definitely speeding up the process). now that I can see he will never move mountains to save our relationship, I just don't want to invest as much in it as before. Oh well. The good news is that things are finally getting better, the horrible aches I was feeling, dizziness, lack of appetite, etc etc are all gone. I'm hurt, really hurt, but I'm not suffering like before. I almost feel numb ... or just plain exhausted from it all. I know you'll find a better place for your heart in the future. I hope it comes quickly for you. xoxo, STN

Ladies Ive read your stories on here for a while now and I just want to tell you all to keep your heads up. I wish that I could go back to the moment when I first met him. It would of all been different. I dont really regret anything now but in my case like a very small percentage of women, I have him. I know your probably thinking that I cant relate to you all on here but I have been there for over a year. Everyday was agony, wondering if he was going to leave her and be with me. Knowing that after we were intimate he had to hurry up and go home. The torment that I put myself through killed me. I am a very visual person and having these constant daydreams of him being intimate with her killed me. Was I being selfish? These were questions I pondered everyday. Then there was the guilt episode. Am I a homewrecker? Did I destroy lives? But then I finally woke up and realized we dont cause a default in a marriage its THEM. There was a time when I was so stressed out over him I got very ill and lost alot of weight. I lost over 25 lbs and didnt have the motivation to do anything. He was constantly on my mind. Was this all worth it? I ask myself this question everyday. I know he loves me but theres a part of me that always wonders if he will go back to her. That's what Im going through right now, and I feel worse than I did before. I once thought it would be a cake walk after they were done. It's very difficult for a M.M to immediately start a relationship with the OW after leaving the ex. We talk alot about it, he says he's fine with it all but I can see it in his face. He's very confused and wants to be with me for the long haul, but the ex is trying to get back with him. How do we move on? Its not that simple at all ladies trust me. For example if they have children, she will constantly try to use that to her advantage. He will be weakened by it. It very upsetting when you see a grown man that has a very strong nature being affected by this extorsion. A part of me is in distress because of the betrayl that he once lived by when he was with her. Ladies, I catch him in (little white lies) constantly, he just gives me exuses that hes just trying to be amicable with his ex. Like I said I thought that "Stage 2" in all of this would be beautiful similiar to a romantic fairytale. BULLSHIT! But thats the fundamentals of life. We live, we learn and most of all we make mistakes. I am torn because I dont know what the future holds. I hope to talk to you all again and give you some insight with your issues and most of all, you have a friend on here that truly understands all of you! Take care and talk to you soon, Jamie

Hello Smarter than this,

I thinkk my situation may be similar to yours, but just a little further along. My MM did get divorced. We are still together. But I struggle all the time with guilt. I fell into being the other woman accidentally, probably like everyone on this forum. But I ended up being the "bad guy" in the entire community. His kids (older) hate me. His xw harasses me with phone calls, drive-bys, any number of rumors. It's funny...I have always been a very strong independent woman and I would have never pictured myself putting up with this, but I think a part of me feels as if this is my due. If anyone knows the answer to getting over the guilt, I sure would love to hear it!!!

And I really want to send a lot of love to every gal on this forum. Being the other woman is painful in its own right, and we are always villanized. But just remember, people can never truly understand unless they have been in the position themselves.

Just a brief venting moment, I'm not feeling as brave as I did this morning. Again, 3 of our "usual" calling times have passed and I've heard nothing from my MM. He seems not to have time to talk but had a moment to leave a nasty message this morning. Damn I wish I'd got to the phone in time, I may be feeling differently now. He's back to total control, I can't call home, can't call work, just can't call I can only wait for him, wait for a call that seemingly never comes until he's horny enough.

I just want to hide in a closet and cry at the moment. Why I don't know, because I want him to love me, to want me like before and I don't think he does, because I think he lied to me all along, because I think I mean nothing to him therefore I feel like nothing. I love him, I love him so much and I can't understand what makes me feel that way. I love who I thought he was, or maybe is and just isn't that way becuase he's upset right now.

This emotional rollarcoaster is killing me, I feel so sick. I am his puppet aren't I. How do I cut these strings and stop desperately wanting him to be the way he was this summer.

Jamie,
thank you for your note, it is nice to hear there is at least a stage 2. I did consider it would be difficult if I did/do end up with my MM how I would feel with the involvement of his first wife and their kids (now 1 adult and 1 teenager), and his feelings for his now (maybe) soon to be 2nd x wife. I've been a part of his life for a long time, since the first wife, but that doesn't mean I may be the next one he cheats on. The relationship started for me because I'd fallen in love with him almost at first site and have told him that, for him it was pure sexual desire but he claims he fell in love with me. You and your MM love eachother, you can build on that. Leaving his wife was a huge move for him, one that doesn't often happen for the OW. It sounds like you are both on the right path to a loving life together, working out the issues with the x will take time, but it sounds like you are the one he wants his life with, the one who is in his heart. I pray you continue on the loving path.

Corinne

He has 2 children with her that are 8 and 11. Do you all think that he'll definately go back since their young?

Hey Jamie,
You have to focus on the positive. He's with you. He actually left her, so that says a lot. As for the children, they play the biggest role in most marriages. People stay for the kids and that's the truth. I believe that she is going to use the kids to her advantage. But if he left for himself and not you, then you should be fine. Stage 2 is only just begun because she is going to fight tooth and nail to get him back, but you have to fight just as hard. Hang in there and we're here for you.

Jamie,
Your man loves you, he's made the move to you and you are together. Remember, just considering doing that was a big step for him, especially with kids involved. Often times parents stay together for the kids and that is all the wrong reasons because it fills a house with negativity between the mother and father, which rubs off on the kids. He had to courange to recognize his true love and moved forward. Just as we can't help falling in love with someone neither can we help falling out of love with someone and that is what happened for he and his wife. He loves you, he's with you. Yes, you will have some bumps in the road with regard to the children but I believe if you stay open about it with your man, be as friendly with the children as you can, even if they are being spiteful to you, it should all work out in the end. Keep in mind the kids are going to have a very hard time with this and will be angry at you, especially if their mom is feeding them bad thoughts. They will see you for the beautiful person their father saw you as in time.

I know it is hard not to worry, I'm a big worrier, focus on the fact that you are together. Keep romance very alive in your alone time, things will work out fine.

You are on in my thoughts!
XOXO Corinne

I don't think so..he has already "jumped" I like to say with you..that is a major step. His kids will always be his life and you should support and encourage that part so he doesn't feel resentful with you.

He probably feels guilty that he can't be around them all the time like he use too but he loves you and wants a life with you. Try and be strong regarding the kids, I know it's hard, my MM has a 5 & 1 year old, he spends time with them alone, I think subconiciously getting ready to "jump" but until he does I just don't know.

You have the upper hand, be the woman he loves not the woman he left.

Hello all,
You know its all starting to sink in. I didn’t hear from my MM yesterday after he left that nasty message. You know, I would have been ok if we’d left our communications off with our talk Monday night after I did the unthinkable and called him. Even though he called me back only because I did that we still talked and it was still beautiful to hear his voice and to “make him feel good”. It didn’t have to end with that nasty message early the next morning.

I won’t hear from him again, he’s obviously so scared of her finding out we talk, seeing my number on the ID, that she won’t come back. If he loved me, he wouldn’t care just as I don’t care and I call him back anytime he lets me know I can call, wherever I am. I really believed all the things he’s told me, how much he loved me, how I’ve always been in his heart after all these years, that I have a place in his life. I believed it, I wanted to believe it and now the reality of it not being true is just killing me. He doesn’t care about me, about the fact that we have a child together. I can’t sleep, can’t eat and cry every time I’m alone. The holidays are coming up, the most peaceful romantic loving time of the year and I can just imagine them getting together caught up in all that emotion of it all and the make up love they’ll be making. I’m pushed out of the heart he said I was in, the place in his life he said I had. Why did he lie to me so much, what could he have possibly gained from it. He can never imagine the love I have for him or care about the pain he has caused me. I try to ask myself why I love him so, what about him am I in love with and I really can’t figure it out but I can’t stop it either. Sometimes it takes my breath away and I feel I can’t breath. I just don’t feel I can make it through this heartache.

It’s my fault, I shouldn’t have rang his phone, but whether I did that or not this end was inevitable. Nothing ends nicely I imagine I’ll have to accept that. I love him, how do I go on without that. He’s been in my heart for 20 year and I see his child’s face with his eyes every day. Our child will never know about him, I would never want her to know how cold, calculating and manipulative he is and how he was to me.

This OW has lost the battle, pathetically, for the second time to a different woman. It isn’t fair, I was around long before her, the second wife, I should have said yes to him when he asked me to marry him years ago. Again, all my fault. I wonder if he was serious back then? I guess I’ll never know. I never wanted to lose him NEVER.

Hi Connie,

Im so upset that your feeling this way..always remember things happen for a reason. Things may seem like there not making sense at the moment..but someday it will. God.. after reading your last post I learned alot about your extensive past with him. I know there's alot more that I dont know but I am here for you and I will give you a helping hand whenever you need it hun. Unfortunately, yes the holidays are here! I remember last December when I wasnt with him. Even now, I see a slight void in him. He misses his children so much and it devestates him more and more as christmas approaches. The holidays are tough enough even if your with someone you love dearly..but when their not with you, its hell. You need to be strong, and YOU WILL get through this difficult time. Hell, Im the worse when it comes to worrying..you have no idea. I'll worry myself sick. You both seem like you have a very strong bond together..more so of the wife. That is so hard to find in this world, and yes it means something..even to him! It may not seem like he cares, naturally the holidays are very hard for all of us to see them. Im not sure what the phone conversation was about so I cant get into detail about overcoming it. My situation is also driving me up a wall, not with him but the ex. She's purposely torturing him, even more so that the holidays are here. It drives me nuts and gets me so angry because morally he's trying to do the right thing. Yes I may of won in a sense but he has never forgotten about his obligations with his children. Their young so of course they want daddy around. And with the wife preaching about this to him, it makes it difficult to "lock in" what I currently have. God I wish there was a happy ending for all of us! How much pain can we deal with? I'll tell you, when this is all over and we officially move on, a nice vacation from this madness is in the cards for us. Connie, he will call, my bf used to do the same exact shit to me all the time. It was never out of guilt for her, it was because I wanted more. He knew this for a while and took it in stride until finally it clicked. He realized that no matter how important his life was back at home, that I was with him 100%. That I truly loved him like a great woman does. It takes a man longer than a woman for all of this to click, but when it does..he'll never make that mistake of letting you go. Well Im sorry this was long but like I said Im here for you and I think this is great we all can come in here with understanding women(which rarely exists) and talk. Please let me know how everything is going with you, because it will be alright. It always turns around...remember that!
xoxoxoxo
Jamie <3

Hi Allison,

Thankyou for your encouragement. Boy, I need it lately. I've read your past postings and it seems like we have sort of the same situation. Hopefully everything is still going well with your M.M. I read that he gave you a promise ring..hey Im jealous I never got one of those yet! Haha. Like I said in my letter to Connie, for the most part everything is going well most of the times. We still have our bad days due to the ex. What about you? Does she know about you two or have an idea?? Have the children met you at all? I know I have alot of questions..guess im curious. Well if I dont talk to you before the holidays I hope you enjoy them and best of luck! <3
xoxoxo
Jamie

Brji,

Your story really hit home to me. Im dealing with the same boloney as we speak, its so amazing how all of our stories are so similar. I dont know how long its been for you since the divorce took effect, but I had my guilt episodes really bad. I was really sick, lost alot of weight, cried..blah blah.. and had no desire to do anything because I was convinced that I was the homewrecker. You see you and I are very caring people. If we didnt care about others then this would be no sweat off our backs. The wife always seems to think that we're heartless bitches that destroy lives. That is not the case at all. There's alot of women out there that don't care about hurting the people that are close to them. We are not the ones that destroy lives or marriages, its THEM. Yes we may be at fault for succumbing to a vile situation, but the fact of the matter is there the ones with the vows. His ex calls me all the time, hangs up, prank calls him, I mean its so ridiculous. She threatens him with his children because of his adultery. I think just like you when you said about "your dues". Well you know that can also be turned around in the world of Karma..maybe its her due. Who's to say? They got divorced for a reason..there was no more happiness! Sure there's couples out there that will go to marriage counseling or just plain talk if they suspect infidelity. That was their problem...not yours hun..their marriage couldnt be salvaged. Does he feel guilty about any of this? Hopefully I helped somewhat but trust me, I am soo in your shoes right now and totally understand. Hope you get through all of this and please keep in touch, Im looking to hear from you soon! :)

xoxoxoxo
Jamie

Im sorry "Corinne" I put Connie I think you know who it was intended for! :)

Hi Ladies,
I just bought my tickets for Italy, looks like I leave December 28th (so I'm really Stuck till December instead of November, but I don't want to call myself STD, that would just be embarassing:). I felt like writing again because my MM is acting strange. When i look at pictures we took about a month ago, we look so in love. Now we've both become really serious and formal in some ways...there's a wall growing up between us. Both of us are stepping away from all those feelings of love we share, I guess it's a kind of defense. I have to say that I feel a lot more stable when we act like this, but I miss how we used to stare into each other's eyes and how we used to light up the room whenever we were together. We still kind of do, but not as much as before. I'm thinking of quitting my job so that I won't have to come back here next year. When I said my MM is acting strange, I meant that he's always looking for signs from God or the universe that he's doing the right thing...this often means he tries to find signs from God that it's good to let me go, so he often keeps blaming me for stupid things, saying I'm wrong about things I had nothing to do with. I try to laugh it off, but really, it's making things a bit sour. I guess I'll feel better in a few days. I already got my flat set up in Italy, I'm really looking forward to being in the West again, to being normal, to no more head games. By the way Corinne, I really get the idea that your MM is playing serious head games with you - I don't mean to say he doesn't love you, I'm sure he does, I just mean that he's really got his own weird set of standards and he keeps making you so dependent on him so that you go along with them. I mean, in the real world, you're bending over backwards to make things work with him and this is really clear to anyone...anyone and everyone except him. He's living in some kind of weird selfish head game where you've actually been bad to him when you've been nothing but accomodating to all of his needs, wishes, and guilt-trips. I just want you to know that at least I think you've done far more for him than he has had any right to expect, you've gone so far out of your way for him, you've given him the best of yourself that you have to offer. If he tells you anything different, I think he's completely wrong (based on everything you've written). Still, my MM does the same and I always wind up trying to get him to see that I've been 'good' and not 'bad'. It's really a lame part of our relationship, he's completely messed up in this area...but God help me, I keep putting up with it. I just keep calling things like I see them, without getting angry...I'm not really sure that I should be so patient with this, but oh well, I'm about to leave anyway, a little more patience for the sake of a fragile peace won't kill me.
Well, I just wanted to write a little note (at least it's little compared to all my other entries:). Please write soon and tell me how you are.
Lots of love, STN

Hello RH,
I agree 100% with your girlfriends. Leave that situation alone until he handles his business (i.e. divorce). You don't want any of that guilt on you; or you never want to feel like he can blame you. Just back away from him and if he really wants a life with you, he'll come to you the right way... signed divorce papers in hands.

RH
Welcome to our crew. Let me tell you, you are definitely in the right mind set. It sounds like you and your man have a great love for eachother, one that sounds like it will stand the test of time. However, that being said, I believe it is best for you to stay away from the situation until he works out his marriage situation, and is free to be with you mind, body and soul completely.

That being said, I do believe you will be with him based on the love you explained you both have for eachother. Keep the relationship non physical for now mearly to protect yourself. You are number 1 and worthy of a loving, kind, peaceful and fulfilling relationship. Wait for him, wait for your future together. It sound like his marriage is based out of obligation, for both of them, for the sake of the child. His heart sounds like it is with you.

Hang in there, believe me I know how hard it is to stay away and unfortunately I know how it is even more difficult when you don't. Hold on to your love for him, if you are in his heart the way you said, he will come to you when the time is right. If it seems like he isn't moving away from the marriage and wants to hold on to you at the same time, let go. You deserve a loving relationship from someone who can give you 100 % of themselves and wants you 100%, not someone who wants you on the side. This doesn't sound like what will happen though. You will be happy with your man some day when the time is right, hold on.

Corinne

Hello Jamie,
Thank you for your encouragement and kind words. You make me realize a terrible mind pattern I am putting myself through that makes the whole situation worse. I harp on every word, the good and the bad and it is driving my emotions to the breaking point. You are right, we do have a strong bond between eachother, one that has, for whatever reason, kept us together all these years even though we are so far apart. I know he regrets that we he moved away all those years ago and wishes things were different. It is painful now to think all he wants is sexual things, when we re-started talking this year the first few months our conversations were full of our dreams, thoughts, ideas and kids. Things we've seen and done, things we wanted to see and so on. The last months it has been really nothing but sex, erotic and sometimes weird sexual things like him wanting a three way. There have only been two men in my life I've been intimate with, I couldn't imagine another man inside of me just for the sake of his sexual arousal. Don't you think that is a bit of a strange fantasy to want to watch me get f**ked, I would never want to see the man I love being intimate with another woman, is it normal for a man to want to see the woman he "loves" do that? Honestly it is making me feel like a tramp, adding to my desperation.

Anyway, I know he's angry now and confused with his wife gone (supposedly). I so want to comfort him and make him feel better but I can't continue dragging myself through the mud at the same time. Love isn't supposed to hurt like this, it isn't supposed to make me feel so desperate I cry every time I'm alone in the car, in the shower. I can't eat, can't sleep and feel shaky all the time. I hear your words, I will get through this, I just don't see the light at the end of this tunnel yet. The holidays will be very hard.

Thank you again for your kind words, sympathetic ear, and loving advise.

I think your situation will improve with time. You and your man love eachother and that is what is most important. The kids will come around to the situation and the x wife, she has no choice but to get over it. Time will heal her wounds and she too will find someone else. Continue to be loving and supportive to your man, you are the woman in his life and the one he holds in his heart.

XOXO Corinne

Hi RH,

I only wanted to say that you were really sooo much smarter than I was. I had no idea what kinds of consequences there would be if I started to fall for a married man - I didn't see five minutes into the future when it started happening and I have paid for it dearly. Whatever you decide to do at this point, you have to at least pat yourself on the back for being smart enough not to go too far before deciding to pull yourself away from your MM. For what it's worth, I think that if he's sincere enough to come to terms with his fairly odd marriage and to leave it in a way that shows he's an honorable guy and willing to do whatever he can to be a good father, then you shouldn't block him out of your life completely. I don't know how much of a space or what kind of space you should give him in your life, but anyway, he sounds like a pretty decent guy who's in a strange situation. I'm really not too impressed with myself in the area of building lasting love-relationships, so I don't want to give any more advice than that.
Good luck with your decision, I'm sure you're going to make the right one, it sounds like you have your head on straight.
STN

Hi Corinne,
One more quick note. I just read your message to Jamie and saw that you're at the stage where you're shaking, crying, not eating, not sleeping. I just wanted to let you know that this stage lasted about 2 months for me, with big ups and downs, points where I was totally in control for about 10 minutes or at best a couple of hours and then totally out of control for about 10 hours or even a few days, before it really became bearable. So please don't get discouraged if it's unbearable, it's part of the process. I know it feels like pouring acid in your wounds to pull back from your MM and to set things right with him, but it's going to feel better, a lot better, over time. You're going to be okay, better than okay, and you'll be so glad you did it even if it's the hardest thing you've ever had to do. I'm concerned that it may take you longer to feel better since you've been attached to your MM for so many years, but I'm hoping not. Who knows, you may even heal faster since you have the love for your children to comfort you. I'm not sure how these things work, but one way or another, I'm sure that good/healthy actions fill your life with good things over time.
Love, STN

hello STN,

great to hear about Italy... its beautiful, and i an sure it will do you wonders.if you go to Florence, give my love to the streets :-)

me well i have come to a quiter self, and i have found it in myself to stop asking the Why me? questions. my MM has been patient, still calls, he says he will accept anything which i think is fine for me, says he wants to keep in touch, as he will always love me, and want me as a friend, but if it hurts me he will stop calling. I have realised he does love me, and its me who has to decide the course of our friendsip, i dont know if i can go back to just friends. he came to see me, and we kept it low key, he was suffering, i can see it in his eyes, but one kiss and all resolve melts so i am not sure i can keep in touch, only time will tell... as it still hurts to give up the forever dream... but i try to let hope in, that i will find it in myself to be happy again...

take care all of you out there

dali

Hi im new to this site but i have a question. im 25 years old my m.m has the biggest dick i have ever been with, and i am addicted to it. my ex before him was small so now that ive been with him its great! he told me that his wife never wanted to have sex with him and i dont understand why. maybe she wasnt good in the sack? well i just wanted to see if i could get some help on here for this addiction that im suffering from? ohhhh its so nice you all have no idea. he lets me take pictures of it!

Hello ladies and happy holidays!

I havent been on here for a couple days but just wanted to say hi and see how you all are doing? Well everythings going great with me he's going to have his 2 children with him for xmas which is very nice. He's so excited! Hopefully the ex-wife is gradually coming to terms with all of this, so she'll stop acting childish. (That would be a great xmas present). Send her a one way ticket to hell! The good news is he called me and hour ago and we're going out to a nice dinner tonight. So far this going too good ladies, something is bound to happen I can feel it! (I hope not)

Corinne, I hope everything is o.k. with you. Like STN said, yes for a couple months its going to be very difficult. I was taking anti-depressants, lost weight, stayed up all night, etc. I was there and it was horrific, I never want to feel that way again, but you will get through it! Your strong, and mainly your children need to see you being that way. I dont like to play games but I noticed when I purposely made myself "less available" it drove him nuts. There was a time when I disconnected my phone so he would wonder and fell right into that trap and it worked. Trust me, after the holidays your going to notice a change in him. The holidays bring out the worse in alot of people, yes even my man! Love you all lots and have a great holiday!!!

xoxoxoxo
Jamie

Hello Dali,

In these days, as I'm getting ready to leave (knowing I might still have to return in the autumn for another year), I feel very quiet...not happy, just to hurt to move in any particular direction emotionally. I don't get excited about things and I don't fall into deep depressions, I'm just holding on to some kind of floating device as I get tossed about by the waves, if you know what I mean. I'm so glad we your MM and my MM love us and that we know it - that's something, even if it's not what we'd dreamed of. I don't know how to give up the dream either, I only know how to force myself to stop thinking about it all the time. It takes all the energy I have to make myself focus on my real options and not on that dream I loved as much as I love my MM. Just as an idea, maybe you could spend time without contact for a while, until you feel stable again on your own, and then agree that you'll resume contact so that you can keep the friendship. My only other thought is that you might just force yourself to be friends who accept that love each other and can do nothing about it other than accept it. I'm sure there are other options, those are just the ones that come to mind. I'll be here for you as long as you might need someone to talk to.
xoxo STN

Hello Dali,
I hope you are able to find the peace and happiness you deserve. Your MM loves you, that is clear, and your love for him is clear as well. Keep all the fond loving memories in you heart, they will lead you to happiness again! No matter where you go, or who you love, always keep those loving memories with you to smile back on.

Happiness you will find!

Love,
Corinne

hello Corinne,

my dear, i wish i could do more, wish i could teach you the art of going to movies alone, go to a park alone with a book, and get lost in another world. My dear Corinne your MM is a very weak man. he is dependent so much on the women around him that he cant even get across a state to meet the women he loves, just because he might miss the one he has.
to tell you the truth, one of these days you need to go visit him without telling him! tell your kids its an interview, or some workshop... i think once you see him face to face it will be different, it always is. some of the shine wears off, and the reality sets in. you have lived long with your dream, you need to look at it with open eyes, to see if it really is worth it... and look at it with your mind, not your heart. and yes no sex talk on the phone, if he does not behave... it always makes you feel used.

Corinne, you are a very loving beautiful person, please try and get off this addiction. If there is a Yoga class around, do join it, it helps to become focused. it really helped me.

take care and keep in touch

dali

dear Jamie,

That is great news! hope it goes well for you, kids can be very tricky if you are going to spend time with them. so good luck.

dali

Dear STN,

thanks for the support.
from tomorrow, we will be on a 'only sos' contact basis. lets see how it works. but coming at a holiday time, and i will be alone, it will be very sad. but i will try my best to hold out on my own. we agreed call only in emergency, or when it get unbearable. he is going with his family for a wedding, so i dont think it will be so difficult, with all the activity around... i am going to have a tough time, as last year and before that we were together and had one of our greatest times together... sometimes i wonder how his wife does not realise? holidays he takes for himself, a week to ten days at a stretch, ... or does she just not want to see it? again no point wondering about it. I have to find myself something to stuff into my stockings :-)

take care, love
dali

Hi Jamie

Thanks for the kind response. Ya the ring is a funny story actually he found it in a bush at work, it was huge, one day he showed it to me and I'm irish..it's an actual Irish promise ring, I was explaining the meaning behind it etc..then a couple months later on our 1 year anniversary he presented it to me, sized and everything..it fit perfect! It was faite he found it...

As for his wife NO she doesn't know about us, I have met his son only.
Their marriage has been dead for several years and like many others they were staying together for 2 incomes to support the kids. They basically just co-exist. There is a part of me that wishes she would leave him as she has no interest in him at all, it's like they are living seperate lives already, her focus is just to be mom.

I know when he is ready he will leave her, I am not pushing that as I want him not to have any regrets. We have become so close more than I even expected us to be. Many things have changed, he actually talks about us living together. I feel a very strong bond happening more than ever, it's strange, just when I thought we had reached a level of intimacy, it grows.

How did he leave ? How long did it take ?

Don't be jealous about the ring..you are far more ahead of me in that department!! All the best and keep me posted.
Don't worry about the X.

XOXO

Hi Dali,

I just wanted to write you a quick note before going to bed. I'm sure these nexts weeks will bring some difficult times, there's no avoiding that...it always helps me to count my blessings when those bad moments hit me hard. I just keep building a mental list of all the things in my life I'm glad and grateful for when I want to ease the pain of not being able to have my MM. I wonder if that would help you. I hope so. Your idea of learning to do things alone and to like doing them alone is admirable. I'm trying something similar, but I have to admit, whenever I go out alone and bump into a happy couple, I end up feeling like crap by comparison. I know that's a bad attitude of mine and it has to change, but I feel it anyway.
I have another question and please feel free not to answer it, I'm only asking to try to learn something about why we OW end up being OW...I wonder if there's some kind of patterned behavior we're susceptible to. Anyway, my question is whether or not you had a good relationship with your father. I did not; I loved him, he loved me in a very selfish way and I never got enough attention from him, he never cared enough and he often showed more affection to and interest in my siblings than me. I wondering if somehow this relationship with my father is playing itself out in my relationship with my MM. I also feel my MM loves me, but the way the relationship is set up is that I'm always seeking his attention, always feeling neglected because he's giving his attention to his wife, family etc. There are some fundamental similarities so I wonder about the other OW here, if they see similarities between their relationships with their fathers and their MM. Just thought I'd ask.
xoxo, STN

Corinne

God after reading your last post you filled me in on how you really feel. It's so crazy when you sit back and think about the effects these men have in our lives. It literally makes me sick to my fu*@*ng stomach that these men can continue to have a disfunctional marriage to these women that treat them like SH%$! Here we have an amazing woman, who's pouring out her heart and soul to a man that deserves her and he's just too damn blind to see it. Corinne he's going to eventually wake up and see that his supposibly "happy marriage" is suffering from an serious irretrievable breakdown. Whenever he decides to come back to reality it may be too late..not for you..but for him. I am curious hun, do ever just point blank ask him if he wants to leave her and be with you. I know in my case which was similar I told him, that if I was him living in a marriage like that..I would of left along time ago. It's like cancer. It's only a matter of time when he comes to terms that life outside of theirs is worth living for. I questioned this everyday "How could he continue this?" My answer after many nights laying awake crying....Comfortablity. That's all this is. You get so caught up in regimens and routines, its what feels right to you. Believe me, it may not be right but its comfortable. You are such a beautiful woman Corinne. He needs to realize this..but I do feel that you can't continue this everyday stress either. Like all of us in here, we pretty much have the same stories, invest the same feelings and most importantly we all need to make the same decisions! He needs some kind of ultimatum. Barnone. It's going to hurt, he may even be pissed..but its not fair to both of you. When my M.M was pulling this same boloney I was terrified to tell him how I really felt..(deep down). I was sick, stressed, suffered from insomnia..I was miserable. I came on the website every now and then to see if I could get some support on what to do. Yes, the women we're very supportive but was I going to follow through with what we discuss on here everyday? Well, that considered some deep thought. Was he going to blow up at me for asking him such a question that "I" deserve to have answered? I made a decision after months and yes I did it. Of course he came up with a thousand excuses of why he couldn't, how much he loved me and how he didn't want me to leave. So I remained patient knowing that if I asked him again their would be two thousand excuses. The point Im trying to make is...that day is eventually going to come. There will be an awakening. That all depends on your strength and how long you can put yourself through this emotional torture. I do feel that after the holidays things are going to get better for the both of you. It's awful that it has to be an emotional rollercoaster. In my last post I said how the holidays are a big toll for everyone..especially marriages. I wish you nothing but the best Corinne, you are an extrodinary individual, even though I don't know you personally you are in my heart! Just keep holding on, and make the right decision for you! Keep in touch and talk to you soon!

xoxoxo
Jamie

You know I, like you, I have never opened up about my situation before, 20 years this has been going on, 2 years of a passionate affair that started in 1987 and 17 years of phone calls maintaining we love eachother. I keep finding myself coming back to this site to see if any of you have left a message and burden you all again with my emotional rollarcoaster.

It is 2pm where I am right now and I still haven't heard from him, I'd really hoped he would have called at lunch time like he has from time to time but nothing. I think the not knowing anything is making it worse but then again I really don't know if I could handle him calling saying they are together and trying to work out their love. Then I wonder how could they, she's told him his body is "disgusting", that sex is "forbidden" and "sinful", they apparently haven't had sex in more than a year and a half and before that it was far and few between and apparently as he has told me, horrible. I could go on and on about the terrible things he says about this woman, I can't imagine how he could love her or want that kind of life.

It gives me great comfort to know that you were at one time in a place I am now and it actually worked out for you. That you and your MM actually have a loving relationship together now and are making it work. The love you explain you share is beautiful. Safe, you feel safe in his arms and he says he'll always be there. That is so beautiful and gives me a glimps of hope. Unfortunately I do not think my MM is as strong as yours, and he has no children with this woman (want to know why, because she told him he was to unstable not to be in her group [cult]) so the only thing holding him back is facing a second divorce.

Oh Jamie, I'm so desperately in love with this man. I want to call the house so badly but keep saying to myself why, to hear her voice and know she's there, to maybe hear some sappy machine message she may have put on there, to be scolded by him for doing it. He has me so shut out, can't call work, can't call home. Do you know I check the obituaries and local papers for his area on line every day to make sure there wasn't some accident. I even call the hospitals to make sure he isn't here. I'm driving myself crazy. I want to hear from him so badly. At the same time I'm terrified to hear from him because I'm afraid it may be my kiss off call. At least I do know our last call ended with me saying "I love you" and he saying "I love you, I'll call you later if I can" and then we both said love you bye. Maybe that is my hope that it isn't over.

He told me once he was lost, he has not idea what lost actually feels like. I only wonder if he is missing me too?

Thank you for listening. Keep telling me about you situation, it sounds so beautiful and I'm so happy the kids will spend Christmas with you. I know they will be a bit of a challenge but it will be beautiful in the long run.

Much love!
Corinne
XOXO

Hello STN
You know I have to say, whatever you profession is, I do believe you would benefit into looking into a career in psychiatry or clinical psychology. You have sucha a beautiful way of viewing things and putting things into a comparitive perspective. The things you've said to me have helped me see things so much clearer and with more understanding. You would make an outstanding counselor.

That all being said, I wanted to say thank you. I'm holding on just as you are. I cry....alot. I can't really eat but I could stand to lose a little weight anyway. So, the days go by and because of you and the other lovely ladies on this site who so graciously care about me (as I do all of you), I'm gettin by as you are too. I'm really so excited for your Italy trip, I've never been there, I want to hear all about it.

We are here for eachother.
Much Love!
Corinne
OXOX

Hi STN and Danielle-

SOOOO sorry I haven't written in awhile. It's these men and job. I need your advice Danielle and STN. I don't know what to do. I'm dating a guy who is perfect the problem is, he is all about the military. He just got back from serving 8 yrs and wants to go back overseas the first time he gets. I'm not the 'military wife' type and I do not want to get hurt. I totally love this man but what would you do if you where in my situation? Jump in with two feet or run for the boarder? Love ya Samantha

Hi Samantha!
First, it's great to hear from you and to find out that you're in love again. I really admire your ability to bounce back and it gives me some hope for myself. But I'm sorry to hear he's not really your type in some important ways. For what it's worth, my grandmother once told me that when I really fall in love with someone, his circumstances and flaws won't matter to me. If I were you, I suppose I would try to take it a little slower and not try to decide everything about the future right now. I suppose I would also be a bit guarded...Heaven knows I have no idea how I'm ever going to dare to give my heart to someone again - I'm just glad to hear that you think you could actually do it, even if you decide not to. it's great that you're so into him, my advice is to just be a little careful. I think I'm a little older than you and one thing I can tell you, looking back on my 20s from my mid-30s, is that there are all kinds of things that I thought 'weren't me' or my style that ended up being things I really liked...and a lot of the things I liked back then seem awful to me now. Things I thought I wanted turned out to be not so great and things I thought I'd never want, well, I want those things more than anything right now. So maybe the role of a military wife, if things went that far, would be what you made of it. The only thing that makes me a little nervous for you is that you said he was perfect...but maybe you're only exaggerating:)
Let us know how things end up going...keep us posted!
Lots of love, STN

Hello STN,
Today is a new day and it was so nice to come in and see your beautiful note. You really have an incredible perspective on things, it's beautiful. You are completely right, I am and do have to move day by day and try not to concentrate on what "they" might be doing today and focus on what "I'm" going to do today. I'm going to take my kids shopping and finish up for the holidays, my family is visiting next week so I'll have them to fill my time and my mind as well. I may even turn my cell phone off so if my MM calls, he'll have to wait for me for a change. Of course I'll likely think that is to drastic when the time comes, but after reading your note I'm feeling bold at the moment.

I do believe he will call me eventually, just as he has before when I thought the end had come. Although this time I think it is different, I still think he'll call so we can maybe acknowledge the fact together that for now, this is the way it is. Maybe we can communicate to eachother that we do love one another and maybe we will be together....some day. I think my heart would be so much calmer if I could just know, in my heart, that he does love me then the day by day would be so much easire.

As for you, I know these next 8 days for you will be difficult with the anticipation of a new location and the saddness of leaving your MM. What you will be taking with you when you go is his love for you, you know he does love you. I'm sure he is so terribly sad that you are leaving for an undetermined amount of time, and it must terrify him that with you not seeing him on a regular basis, there is a possibility that you will find love again. That is a real possibility. All that is certainly why he may be seeming a bit distant now, like you said, as a man he is trying to seperate from the emotional feelings. This change for you will be wonderful, and in the future if fait means to bring you back with your MM, then it is meant to be. There is no denying you both have a beautiful love and respect for one another, nothing, not time, space or fait can ever change that.

Be happy planning your new adventure, carry his love with you forever and be open to what the future holds for you. You are a beautiful and amazing woman, what lies ahead of you will be very bright. I hope in Italy you will be able to continue on this site, I want to hear all about what is going on.

Much love to you!
Corinne
XOXO

my dear STN,

you are angry, that is good... shout scream, get it out of your system, best shout at your MM, he needs to hear it. then look at your anger, and understand it, to remove it you need to deal with it, i have been through this again and again... yes these men do not think like women. my last day with MM was spent running business errands. and at the end of the day when i broke down and told him, why did we do all this, it was our last day together could we not spend it together quitely?... he said, but it was not even for myself, someone asked me this and that... exactly, those obligations seemed more inportant. they do not realise that thigs will never be the same, sadly we suffer with the dim wits. anyway he said sorry, cried... but then time gone is gone... cant turn it back. so my dear sweetheart i understand.
Oh! a very merry christmas, its been a painful one but lets promise yourselves a better one next year. i miss home, mom, her goodies, the tree... have not had the heart to even put up lights this year... first time in my life. all because of a man who does not know what he wants? i tell myself, love or no love, one cant be depressed over a childs tantrum... so get up girl, and get on with living, and finding meaning and happiness to your life.
i know its not easy, i have not been able to write all these days, just plain sadness, cant read for my lectures... etc but i push myself.
what helps is to tell yourself and him, that you forgive them for being so weak. dont ask me how but it helps, if you find it in yourself.
as to you observation about relationship with my father, yes it fis the bill. he was always busy, had an affair, mom never forgot or forgave, he never tried hard, they just fought and existed, under the excuse that it was for me. god knows it only made it worse for me. i saw that pattern with my ex-husband, they were similar. ans when i could not work it out, i got a divorce, but with MM, he called me everyday for the past two years, and there only 10 days which we did not speak, out of which a week is now. so i got enough attention from my MM. if not presence. he is very honest, and very communicative.

too tiered to write anymore... take care, hold on, it will get better

dali

STN
I'm sorry, I saw this post after I sent off my long letter a moment ago. You are so angry and I hate to see you this way, I hate to imagine you are feeling the same feeling of loss, anger, pain and frustration as I am. Why do we love these men?

Of course I will remind you of your anger if you should slump into depression, and I think your idea of Paris and a beautiful outfit is fantastic, can you really do that. I wish I could do it with you! The best I can do here is stand on a bridge over the river. "Bridge over troubled waters" isn't that ironic, I couldn't do that, I'm afraid I'd jump. Anyway, be good to yourself. Yes he is being a damned selfish bastard and doesn't deserve the love you have for him. I do believe he is hurting but just isn't showing it in typical man form. Remember you are beautiful, remember you have a bright future, remember you too light up a room just by walking into it, even if you can't make eye contact, the light is undenyable.

I agree with you in telling anyone seeing these posts who are thinking of getting involved with a MM, DON'T DO IT. It simply isn't worth it, all this heartache, the unknown and constant questions, the guilt, the lonliness, love yourself and find someone who can love you back.

STN, hang in there! I'm here for you.

Much love,
Corinne

Hello Dali,
I'm sorry to hear you had a sad Christmas. My thoughts too were of my MM, who was at home, thinking of her no doubt. If you've seen my previous posts you know she left him (temporarily I believe) and the few times he's talked to me, I do believe he's miserable she's gone rather than miserable I'm not there. She's been gone almost 4 weeks and I think what she's doing is playing him, to make him relize he needs her and what better time to hurt him then during Christmas. She made him spend Christmas alone (well he was with his kids), trying to hurt him the most. Unfortunately I think its working. I tried to convince him to at least get a Christmas tree, when I last spoke to him on Saturday he said he was headed out to get one, then when I talked to him today he said he couldn't bring himself to do it. Couldn't bring himself to do it, so what she's doing is working. He has a shirt of mine and he told me he wore it all Christmas day when he was with his kids, made me closer to him. I don't think it is me he wants closer to him.

Anyway, I'm sraying off why I'm writing, I'm sorry your Christmas was lonely. I too thought constantly of him and what he was doing, if he was with her or not. I was lost but tried very hard to make it great for my girls. I think I did an ok job.

Hold on Dali, you'll find happiness, we all will. Have a Happy New Year and keep us posted on how you are doing. Even if you are sad, write it down, it helps, you have all helped, and I'd love to help you as you've helped me.

Much love!
Corinne

I came across this discussion as I was searching for books or articles on the psychology of being the "other woman".

When I was a young woman, I never imagined myself being someone's girl-on-the-side. Actually, I was very judgmental about women who allowed themselves to do that. Twenty years later, I became one of those women I judged and now find myself struggling with finally ending this pattern. For several years, I have been the other woman to three men - one married and the other two co-habitating with their girlfriends who knew nothing of me.

None of these partnered men I've been with made any real moves to leave their primary relationships for me. If I had even heard an inkling of an argument with their women or a hint of some dissatisfaction with their relationships, I deluded myself into thinking that those were the beginnings of some movement toward me becoming "the one", the primary, the real girlfriend or even wife. But in reality, none of these men were making attempts to embrace me as the one.

So here I am, the day after christmas, just in the wake of telling this man that I have grown weary of being #2. In our heated telephone argument this afternoon, he made it clear and I finally understood that he does not feel for me what he feels for his girlfriend. Believe me, this was a process a couple years in the making. It really set in to my psyche that he is not in love with me and that I've been a diversion from his boredom and loneliness when his woman is away on business.

It's extremely painful but I am just dog tired of the sneaking around, waiting for phone calls, listening to voice mail messages apologizing for not coming by as planned because he got "caught up with wifey and that whole situation", not spending holidays with him, not being a part of his family or him a part of mine, being kept a secret like I was something so abhorrent and shameful that I needed to be hidden.

I'm too precious of a human being for all that...and so are all of you on this discussion board.

It's really difficult and it's a process but if you are willing and you're ready to step away from him and move on, you'll just do it.

Best wishes to you all and I hope 2007 is your year!

That is what I need to do, JUST DO IT and step away. But how do I overcome the unbearable saddness of never speaking to him again.

It is very clear to me, my MM is miserable after enduring the 4 weeks that it has been since the wifey left him. It is also so clear to me that she is playing him (like a fool), trying to proove to him he's miserable without her, trying to hurt him when it hurt the most, during the holidays. It's working, I can hear it in his voice, and he still doesn't want me to call showing my number on the ID, god forbid he should have an adult conversation with someone more than 500 miles away and she find out about it. If he wants to be with a woman who won't support him in his ambitions, who won't satisfy him sexually (no sex in almost 2 years because it's "sinful"), and a woman who'll look at his naked body and tell him he's disgusting, then there is nothing I can do about that.

The problem is what can I do about the constant breathtaking pain followed by the immediate swell of tears in my eyes whenever I think on him not being a part of my life then, whenever I try to accept the fact that it isn't me he loves or cares about. It is unbearable this pain. I love this man so deeply and dearly, I want to dream with him, I want to satisy him sexually, I think he is beautiful. So what's wrong with me?

Hi Ladies,
I have time for just a quick note right now and (as you might be able to guess, I'll write more later:). Mainly I wanted to say that in the end, the thought that helps A LOT, is that we deserve better, we do. If we keep settling for these MM who treat us like nothing when we need them the most, we are only working against ourselves. When I somehow get to that place inside my head and heart where I know down deep that I deserve more respect than he gives me, I become a more compelling person. And my MM is always shocked when he sees me when I'm in this state. He's used to me settling for nothing. It's so great when you let them know that you have limits, that you're not their doormat. It changes the whole dynamic for the better. And not contacting them, well, it works like MAGIC. If I don't make myself available all the time, my MM suddenly starts looking for me. I think it's awesome that your MM (Corinne) had to call you 4 times and got nothing, it can only help. I'll write more later tonight, and unlike these married men, I'll be here for you ladies if there's anything I can do.
Lots of Love,
STN

Hello Ladies,
I'll be leaving work soon and will be off with my visiting family for the rest of the week.

I want you all to know how grateful I am for your advise and understanding, and mostly just for listening to my babble. Thank you for allowing me to release this 20 year old painful secret without harshly judging me.

STN, have a safe and happy move, I will be thinking about you. Enjoy your new flat and please let us know as soon as you can how things are going. I'm anxious to know how your MM handles seeing you go. If he doesn't show it on the outside, you must know it's killing him on the inside. Remember to treasure the happy times and if fait wants it, you'll be together again.

Dali, hang in there, it will get better. Hold on to the love and happy times.

Jamie, you give us all hope that some day there will be a brighter side. I do hope your holidays with the children were beautiful and your love continues flurishing.

Allison and Danielle, thank you for all your kind words, I do hope things are going well for you.

As for me, I'm desperately in love with my MM but am again trying to remind myself "it is the way it is supposed to be". He said he loves me, maybe in some way he does, but it is HER he wants back. It is better I discovered that now rather than moved there and discovered it then.. I suppose. It cuts like a knife so deeply in my heart I'm waiting for healing.

2007 is a new year and I pray it brings all you ladies and myself happiness and serenity.

Happy New Year!
Much Love
Corinne
XOXO

Hello Corinne and STN,

thank you for your support, been sick for two days, just finished my crying session... it feels better now. its so hard to let go! but it is happening little by little. i no longer wait for his call. life is difficult, but my own.
i have made a lot of sketches, and plan to paint this one week of holiday... it always makes me come alive. wish i could show you my work, you would all relate to it.

STN good luck, enjoy Paris... forget the money part, sometimes its good to let go and just spend if it makes you feel better. do keep in touch, you are a good friend.

Corinne you are making ground :-). Great. keep believing in yourself.
Cheers to a new year and a new beautiful life
take care

dali

To the woman who wrote in about being the OW to 3 men...my heart goes out to you. I don't know what makes men try to get away with treating us this way and I don't know what makes us accept such a sad place in life for ourselves. I also used to judge OW harshly, I never had any ideas about them other than that they were home-wreckers and tramps...and look at me now...the OW for about a year and half and agonizing about letting go, even when I know that he cannot give me even 10% of the committment and attention I deserve. I too am just someone my MM loves to turn to when he can't handle his normal life. But where is he when I can't handle my normal life? With his wife. When I fell for him, I seem to have lost my wits.
I wonder if you would mind sharing what you learn about what might make us OW behave the way we do (since you said you've been searching the web for information about this topic); I am also trying to learn as much as I can, so that I don't repeat my mistakes and bad patterns for the rest of my life. It seems to be a pattern for me to fall in love with men I can't have for one reason or another. That's all I've figured out so far. I don't yet know how to break the pattern. In any case, I'm glad that all of us on this website are waking up to the fact that we deserve better than what these MM are willing to offer us. I think this is the first and most essential step towards a better life. I'm wishing you all the best as you start to figure your way out of your difficult situation.
STN

Dear Corinne,
Instead of going to bed as I said in my note to Dali, I read this message of yours again. You asked what is wrong with you, what you can do about the horrible pain you feel when you think of separating from your MM. I really do think you're suffering something similar to what addicts go through when they can't have their drugs of choice - for us, love is the drug and every cell in our bodies ends up wanting more and more of it when we end up in an addictive/dependent relationship. Our feelings (including love) are bascially chemicals that our bodies produce and we can actually get addicted to certain types of them (at least according to some things I've read). The pain is unbearable because your body thinks it needs more'love' from your MM, and you're cutting back. I suppose not everyone believes this, but at least it works as a kind of analogy (you could basically say that you're going through an emotional withdrawl and it's going to take a lot of pain and time to get through, to clear out this need from your system). You may end up taking three steps forward, ten steps back, 2 steps forward, etc etc for a while until you're strong enough to make a big leap forward. Part of you already wishes you could just make the break, stop the dependency you have on this man, and that part of you will get stronger over time if you just keep feeding it. I'm not sure if that kind of thinking helps anyone on this site, I just know that it helped me to see things that way. I also needed some kind of explanation for the power that my feelings had over me. I'd never experienced feelings so strong, love so completely passionate, pain so utterly debilitating and overwhelming, until I fell in love with my MM. I'd never had such a difficult time in my life leaving a bad situation behind me. The idea of addiction helped me understand some of the neediness and desperation I've been feeling.
Well, I guess that's it for me tonight, I should have gone to sleep ages ago, but somehow I'm not in the mood.
Take good care Corinne, I'll be here waiting to see how things go for you over the next few days (I'll try to check in from Paris).
Lots of love, xoxo, STN

erm... it seems a little selfish to do so when so many people round here seem to be having a bad time just right now... but i was wondering -there's a man i liked for along time - probably toward the point of infatuation. he seemed so gentle, kind, strong, warm etc. he is married with a large family.

A year ago I found out he was having an affair with a girl I know. It really touched me deeply, for reasons i'll never quite understand. i don't know what part of it is nosiness, jealousy, maybe even love, because my feelings are too strong for me to recognise. he seems to be perfectly happy with his wife, but i also know from mutual friends that this girl says he's in love with her.

have spoken about it with friends. i basically figure I am better off out of it as it may all end in tears for everyone. but somehow i feel envious of the girl sometimes. can you guys relate to that?

btw -the question, i mean.

xx

Well I enjoyed all of the uplifting letters. I am new to this forum and I have had a horrible year with my MM. You see, we met at work several years ago, and he married his high school sweetheart. He says after about seven years, he has been married since 96, he strayed. Then we met I never even looked his way, he wasn't my type, but then we got to talking and we just hit it off. We have such strong passion and it just could not be denied. Well, we had an ongoing affair off and on for about 2 years. Then we broke up his wife was expecting their second child ( two daughters they have) then it all happened. We started our affair again in early 2004 his wife found out about us on 3 seperate times, and we would break up and he kept coming back to me again. Finally, she threw him out and started divorce procedings. Then we moved in to a beautiful apartment I furnished it all myself. The two years we lived together was interesting. The first was actually wonderful, still his kids never came to visit she would not allow it. Then the second year came, awful. I broke my ankle before Christmas last year he never helped me with anything, I could not move. My parents had to come over and do the shopping, etc... for 2 months. I should have known he was useless, he missed his kids and home he did not like living in an apartment. It went downhill. We continued to live together he would come home later, not call me for days.Finally he moved out in May. I took a couple days off of work to sort things out because working together is hard.He called me out of the blue a couple of days later, I informed him I was moving from the apartment we shared to a really cute 1bedroom w/loft. He kept saying he missed me and he just needs time to sort things out.Well, he helped me move all of my things to my new apartment and I took him back. So from May to now, he has been living with his wife and kids, saying he was staying in the basement and kept promising me that is was coming back to me. Was I an idiot or what. Finally, he said he was coming back in March, he has things to take care of while he is living there.

terrible painful day, losing my fight today... desparate to hear his voice
wrote this...

can the sun be too late to rise?
can the dawn never reach the horizon,
can the sea never reach the ocean?
can rain never touch the earth, who yearns for it so much
can the silence overcome the music
can the song be lost in tears and rain?
can the mind lose you in my memory
can the truth be a comforting instead of pain
can this be anything else than tears and pain
can this be anything else?
can this be anything?
can this be?
can i face the truth that i will never be with you?

dali

Hi,
My guess is that you do have some feelings for this man, romantic ones on some level...and of course I can relate to that for sure. But please, don't let these feelings develop, even if something romantic ever happened between the two of you, it would definitely be accompanied by mountains of pain, frustration and all sorts of horrid traumas that may be difficult to imagine from where you sit now. If you have to love him, just do it from a safe distance because if you begin to invest any of yourself in this situation, you'll have gone too far, but you may not see that at first (many of us didn't see the pain coming before it hit us like a mac truck) - once you realize you've gone too far, it will be too late, and you'll just suffer like you wouldn't believe to get yourself out of the situation. Please be careful for your own sake, keep those feelings from developing before it's too late -if you turn away now, you may never know it, but you'll have saved yourself more heartache than you can imagine.
xoxo, STN

Hello Ladies,

Well I hope you all had a great holiday. I know how tough it must of been for all of you out there, (myself included) so hopefully you all came up on top. I havent been on in a few but its nice to know that I have people on here that care about my situation, and for that I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart! <3

My christmas went good I guess..lol My M.M surprised me with a beautiful bracelet. I was hoping that it would be a ring..but hey..I can wait for that! The ex has been driving me crazy. Uggghhh! She just wont quit, its quite pathetic, but he's really starting to see the "WACK JOB" that she's been revealing lately. If I was her, I would consider playing nice :)..I think she's seriously bipolar and needs to be sedated! Haha!

I just hope that 2007 is a better year for all of us. I feel like it will be, we're all due!!! I havent had the opportunity to read any of the posts that Ive missed, but I will tomorrow morning, Im just very tired right now and need some sleep! I'll talk to you all tomorrow!

xoxoxo
Jamie

it is sad to read these stories. they are accounts of grief... and i didn't want to come here and say something platitudinous. but supposed wisdom is one thing... actually knowing what it feels like to gain experience which strengthens and develops you is another, and you guys are in the latter category. taking the decision to get involved with these men has come with tough consequences. taking the decision to be strong and search for better relationships has enabled you to start becoming who you were meant to be.

that's my two cents.

dear all,

STN you have written a beautiful message for all of us thank you so much. it is so soft and yet so deep. i dont know what you do, but you can be a very good healer. enjoy paris and italy...

corinne i hope you have found some relief, in being with you family.

Thank you all the sensitive, beautiful women here who have helped bear this pain. its a blessing to have found this site, otherwise in the loneliness and confusion i would have gone insane. It teaches us just by listening to each other.
my prayers are for all of us, for a warm comfortable year ahead...
love to all the friends i found here

dali

Happy New Year Jamie and everyone. WOW what an amazing story! I can totally relate to everything you wrote it's almost like looking into the mirror it's so similar. The main difference is your MM admitted that he will leave her for you.

I am so afraid to ask this of him, I mean he should know right ? Right now things are going to well that I feel numb..is this possible ? I just don't know if he will leave her.

The friday before christmas we were out for lunch and I had alot to drink as did he. Before I was leaving for christmas holidays he told me how much he loves me, like no other and how everytime I am not around he thinks of me and misses me just as I do. He told me to believe in him..then I said, how can I believe in you when in the summertime you had told me that you can't end your marriage when your wife hasn't done anything wrong....

Then he said, well things have changed now. I want to be with you, I love you and as long as you love me there is no risk, nothing to lose. What do I gain, I said me...he says that's right and that's enough. So I left things at that point, I really didn't know what to say as tears were in my eyes with happiness.

The only thing he said and has repeated, is that he is worried I would get bored....9 years age thing ?

As for your man, he sounds like he is very content and deeply in love with you.
I am unsure why a ring would make you happy, do hope to marry him ?
Enjoy your passion, he is going through alot of emotions, he won't go back to her, if he is anything like my MM. I don't think he is the type to go back on his word, when they make a decision, it's done for the good or the bad.
There may be alot of "what if's" but in the end they know they would be miserable without us.

Love Allison.

Hi Allison

Hope you had a great holiday with your M.M! It sounds like you two are on pace for a beautiful relationship together. My M.M thought the same about our age difference as well. I just think it's their small insecurites about being with someone younger, and wondering if we are going to feel the same about them in the future. I love him for who he is, and emphasize this to him. I like to joke alot too so I'll say something like: "Oh dear when your 70, I'll wipe your ass for you!" Laughter is definately the key to my relationship! :)

I remember when we were in our dating stage. Technically we still are dating, but it is much different in my case. We live together so it seems more real. Im the type of person where I need validation. If you read my letter to STN about father's you'll understand why. My father left us when I was young. Unfortunately, I need that reassurance that my M.M isn't going to leave me either.

If your M.M is telling you that he wants to be with you, and he loves you..he will. When you reach this point, you'll understand what I mean with validation. Your feelings are going to feel so different, you'll be fantasizing about being in an open-relationship with him, living with him, spending the rest of your life with this man. I think that you may already be at this stage because of your relationship being so open with him!

I didnt come out and say "LEAVE YOUR WIFE DAMMIT AND BE WITH ME". (Although deep down that's how I felt) I would say things on the line of: "Wouldn't it be great to do this all the time?" I would hint constantly, and believe me, men are no dummies. Don't be afraid to tell these men ladies that you want them. It's all in how you say it.

Getting to your situation over the summer. It's like deja-vu to me. My M.M said similar things like yours did. His excuses were his children, how the hell do you overcome that topic. Children always come #1, and I didn't know what to say. I would ask him, "Why would you continue a marriage to a woman that you don't love anymore?" And he would respond: "If we didn't have kids, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.".. You see my M.M openly said that he wasn't in love with her anymore. He's the type of man where he said what he meant..even if it hurt me.

Allison if I were you, you need to ask him this. He's already said that there is no risk. Why risk losing the woman you love (YOU)? Also for your personal development, I think its crutial you ask him. Do you really want to know? I know I did, I couldn't take the wondering all the time. You need to find your own way/words. Don't be nervous because in the end, their marriage will end, trust me. I was on this website and it discussed how 83% of marriages that have extra-marital affairs, divorce. The question is hun, how long can you wait?

I wish you all the happiness in the world, and hope that you have the strength and courage to do this. It's very scary, but you will get through this!!

P.S. Let me know! :)

xoxoxo
Jamie

Hi Jamie

This is so refreshing to speak to you, you have no idea.!! Thank you so much for your advice.

To answer your question, a few weeks back, I was struggling with what your saying about us being together for real. The main problem with me is that I have such a difficult time expressing my feelings with him, he knows this and always wants me to tell him how I am feeling. Anyhow..that day I came out and said that I am afraid that one day "the spark" would come back into his marriage and that I need to know now what he is feeling about me and us.
He said again - that she doesn't love him anymore and they just co-exist as 2 incomes to support the kids. I said and what about you..is there a chance for you to rekindle, he said no, it's too far gone and I have strong feelings for you. Then he asked me, are you asking me for a committment...? I wanted to say yes..but I froze. I ended up saying I just want to know where your head is at, he says you are entitled to know that, l love you. But he never gave me the answer that I think I wanted.

Last night, we hooked up for a bit since I hadn't seen him before new years eve.
We were talking about the previous friday where we had the drinks and he said all that mushy stuff to me..which as I thought, he doesn't recall the half of it..he does call that he was being all emotional with me knowing he wasn't going to see me for 5 days, he remembers (he said this) how beautiful I looked and how romantic he felt. As usual I turtled...thye only thing I did say to him was - you don't seem like the type of person that would say something you didn't mean..I guess I will have to wait and see if you say it again.

Does this seem familar to you ? One minute you feel it is real and we will be together and the next it was just the heat of the moment.

Hello everyone, Happy 2007!

STN, I know you aren't on line yet but I've been thinking of you and hope your move went well. Paris must have been beautiful at New Years Eve! I know you were nervous and scared but I can't help but feel this is all going to be wonderful for you. You go girl!

Dali, I hope you are feeling better and things are looking up. I've been praying that your heart has found a chance to smile.

Jamie, I'm so glad to hear about your Christmas and how lovely it was with YOUR MAN, you can't really call him your MM anymore, it is so obvious how he loves you, chose you, so for you he is YM, good for you! Don't worry too much about the X, she'll move on in time. He loves you and it sounds like a beautiful relationship, I'm so happy for you. I hope the love continues to grow in the new year.

I had a nice time visiting with my family for a few days. My MM called me often the day before New Years Eve, but then I didn't hear from him again until yesterday. Just like the Christmas weekend. I think I've discovered he's lying to me. I do believe his wife has moved back in, it would explain why he can't call me in the evening anymore and after all, he hid the fact that he was even married from me for 3 years, why would he not hide her moving back if he thought it would keep us going, whatever "us" is. His conversations are still mostly sexual at this point and honeslty I'm a little tired of it. I'm so much more than that, I love him so much more than just that but I don't think he feels the same for me. He loves the idea of f**king me. Its all so sad for me to come to this realization but it is just becoming so much more clear to me. Maybe he does love me in his own sexual way, but it isn't enough. He said some sweet things yesterday like how wonderful I made him feel when we were together so many years ago, and he said "I'm so in love with you" and "I love you very much", but those words were all surrounded by sex, sometimes odd sex ideas too like watching me with another man. Why would someone want to watch the woman they supposedly love have sex with another man. Our conversations never were about that until recently, but now it's just getting sick.

Unfortunately I still love the bastard. Why I don't know, honestly, I really don't know. What I do know is it hurts so deeply because now he just makes me feel like a little slut, especially since I think she's back and he's lying about it. I've only been with 2 men my whole life (he being one of them), that hardly constitutes a slut but that is how he makes me feel. I shouldn't love him, he's very bad for me I know. I wish I had the courage to actually tell him that's it, I'm done but the second I hear his voice I become an anxious teenager desperate to keep her man any way she can. I'm pathetic and feel quite miserable at the moment. I'm sorry I ever called him and started talking to him again last spring, it was a huge mistake.

It is a new year and I'll be busy again soon with my kids activities so that should keep my mind elsewhere for a good while. We'll see. I know I need to let go of this man, I just can't seem to do it.

I hope you all had a safe and happy New Year. I'm so glad to have you all as a part of my life. I love you all!

Corinne
XOXO

sorry but i think you need to work really hard at putting something in place of him in your life. you know if you're in physically restricted environment for long enough, someone can eventually let the door open. the biologival tendency will be not to go through it, because you have become so used to what you know.

this guy's treatment of you is demeaning, dishonest and degrading. only 7% of communication is physical. what have you communicated to him by failing to face up to the horrible disappointment he stored for you (his fault) by lying to you about his marital status and leave him? or when you let him lie to you about his wife's return? or when you failed to give him the answer he needed to hear when he asked you, after all the time you've been loyal to him, to act out a porn display with another man?

he already has the message that it's ok to treat you badly. how much will that be reinforced if you waste any more of your precious time waiting for him? users don't change - they just take your compliance as a green light to take further advantage.

Sorry. :(

Hello STN,
How excited I am to see a post from you, I hadn't expected it so soon. I'm so happy you are safe and in Paris, I do hope you travels went well. I do believe this anger is your first step to freedom. It is of course hard for me to be certain since I'm not at that point yet, but I believe you are starting to see the inner more deserving beautiful you and are starting to move on. Please don't be so hard on yourself, there is no way for anyone to predict who they will fall in love with, or even why they fall in love. It happens, sometimes good and sometimes bad, but it just happens. Feel you anger, understand that it really isn't directed at one particular person but more the situation and the fact that at this time it couldn't work. You time wasn't wasted just simply used. You are young and beautiful, there is still plenty of time for to experience another love and much more happiness. You had happy, beautiful times with you MM. Keep those memories with you and when you let go of the anger and frustration, and you will let go of it, you will find peace to move on. It will happen. I'm sure life is crazy for you right now with the move and job change, hold on, it will calm down and get better, much better.

I'm trying to let go, the only problem is once I've thought "thats it, I'm moving on" he'll call me telling me how much he loves me, needs me, how beautiful I am, how he's love me so much for all these years. I'm sorry to say once he says that I melt like butter. I'm working on it though.

Enjoy Paris, it sounds lovely!
Lots of love,
Corinne
XOXO

Corinne -

I've had a few men telling me they need me. Sorry to be negative again, but in my experience, it's usually done in the context of someone trying to play on your desire to nurture them, in order to get you to accept a lesser package than you're worth. To take just one example, one guy texted me out of the blue and told me how much he missed me and needed me (for sex). This is in the context of me never having asked anything of him, him not letting me anywhere near his house because it would "disturb his flatmate" (wtf?) and being unprepared to go out anywhere because public places "weren't private enough". Yet he still tried to (subtly) bully his way under my roof in order to get casual sex.

That's an extreme example, and I've no doubt things are more complicated in your case, but... dating you for three years and *then* telling you he's married? what does he "need" you for? deep down he must know it's not in you best interests to stay with him as things are, so why does he phone you and tell you the very things most likely to upset you into staying?

Hello everyone,

still feeling low, its been terrible three days, its a backward ten steps. silence...

help

dali

Hi Dali and Corinne,
Just a fast note on the run. Dali, please write soon to let me know how you are, you sound in a very bad place now and I'm scared for you. The pain you're feeling has to run its course, there's no way around it so let that be, but please do anything you can to manage it while it's doing what the pain needs to do. The pain is healing you, slowly and in such an agonizing way, but it is healing you.
And Corinne, btw, I remembered the name of that film that i mentioned, it's called Matchpoint. It's so hard to watch, but you will gain some perspective on your own situation that might help. I'm not sure...it's really hard to watch, the message to us OW is so very very harsh, so if you're not in a moment where you're feeling strong, maybe it's best not to.
xoxo, lots of love, STN

Hi,
May I say that I am in the same boat.. After a divorce 5 years ago and plenty of opportunities for a relationship - the walls were high and then a co-worker gave me the most passionate kiss I have ever had...The walls were down and unfortunately he is married, 20 years, and an 8 year old daughter... I know that walking away is the right thing to do - but it is so hard - we talk on the phone a minimum of 3 hours everyday... He says he can't leave his marriage unless he gives it a fair chance and they have talked and "she" has a chance to make things better before he leaves... I know it's crazy - but hearing his voice is so comforting - I swore I'never fall in love again and it came and grabbed me - hook, line & sinker... I am looking for the strength to walk away and would like to say thanks to all the posts as it helps...the question is - how do you not pick-up the phone on the next call... He says he loves her...but he is "in love" with me... It'll be ringing soon and how do you walk away from the best 4 months of your life?

hi,
yes, you've got the same bug we all have. how to walk away...that's the question. my only advice is that you'll never WANT to do it, it will be something your force yourself to do against your own will. one good reason to do it is to save yourself before you get into any deeper - the longer you stay involved, it'll be that much harder to pull out. you will suffer, good Lord in heaven, you will suffer when the time comes...do what you can to make that less hard on yourself, get out sooner than later...if you can. if you can't, you're already in too deep. pick up that phone when he calls, but don't tell him anything other than that you love him, but you can't live with sharing him. i know, easier said than done...sorry i haven't got anything better to offer.

Hello STN,

Thanks a ton, the pain has eased now, partly because i could control with a lot of difficulty my urge to call. and partly because when he called and told me the reason, it was so frivoulous that something just changed inside.(excuse: i forgot to carry my phone, there was no ISD in the place, and i was not comfortable borrowings a phone from any of my relatives!!!) and i told him, i am losing my perspective on this, so i think you should give me space :-). there is a huge imbalance of what you can give, what you perceive i need, and what i really need... etc. we were going to take a trip to egypt, just as travel partners, but i cancelled that. its too soon, for me. he was disappointed, said i should try to balance it not cut off... etc ( meaning i will call and see you as i please, you do the balacing act???) i said no. you get to call me once a day, at this time,if you miss it, fine try another day. we had started this, but he always breaks the rules saying , i wanted to surprise you etc... but he refuses to put in an effort to stick to a time... also blamed me that i dont see his pain, etc... ( hey, if the pain was so bad, you would have married me, and been here or at least called)
anyway, its better, quiter in the mind... i did not sleep for four days... but eventually it feels like i have been washed and dried :-). i know some days this pain will come back, but atleast i know there is an end to it.

So you liked paris :-) you will like Italy too, except the chaos and the traffic ...
it will be a busy next week for me, end sems etc...
take care

dali

Help,
ladies, he just called me. He surely didn't sound like his old sweet self, said he didn't call yesterday because he "was busy". He's always so mysterious when I'm always so open to him about where I am, what I'm doing and who I'm with. Anyway, again we talked for only 5 minutes of mostly me talking, you know; are you ok, how was your day blah blah blah. He said he's got things to do and he'll "call me later". Could be another usual later today never comes, but I'm just so confused. I feel like a yo you that he just pulls up and down constantly.

What I did was unexcuseable, lying is a despicable act and testing him or not, it was unexcusable. I've made myself look like a hore in his eyes when in reality I've only been with two men in my life and he's one of them. I'm so so sad, and I imagine he won't call back today. Is that his new game? Why? Why paly me like that? I know you'll say if he calls back don't respond to him. I know that is the right thing to do at least for a while but I can't do it. If he calls and I don't respond I start to panic inside and my heart takes over. STN, you are right, he's my addiction.

I do hope you all aren't angry with my behavior. I've become a desperate and pathetic person, not even someone I like much anymore. Honestly I think he deserves better than me, he should go back with her. I feel like I just can't breath. Is he despicable or am I?

Corinne
XOXO

PEOPLE COME ON HERE AND CALL THE OTHER WOMAN WHORES, LETS BE REALISTIC HERE, NO ONE CHEATS IF THEY ARE HAPPY, IT JUST WILL NOT HAPPEN, ANDMOST MARRIED WOMAN WHO ARE WITH THERI HUSBANDS, AND THEHUSBAND IS HAVING AN AFFAIR, THEY VERY WELL KNOW SOMETHING IS UP, SOME CHOOSE TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT, THATS WHAT I WONDER ABOUT, WHY THEY REMAIN QUIET, PROBABLY FOR FINANCIAL REASON'S, BUT IN TURN PEOPLE CALL THE OTHER WOMAN WHORES?I LOOK AT IT THE OTHER WAY, THE MARRIED WOMAN WITH THE CHEATER, STAYING BECAUSE OF KEEPONG THE ROOF OVER HER HEAD, AND NOT WANTING TO CHANGE HER LIFESTYLE, WELL WHAT'S THAT? HMMMMMM A PAID WHORE! I DO NOT BELEIVE IN THE NAME CALLING ON HERE, ITS DISGUSTING, BUT IT CAN GO THE OTHER WAY TOO, AS I JUST MENTIONED, BECAUSE THATS EXACTLY WHAT MANY DO, AND SOME EVEN HAVE THEIR OWN MM ON THE SIDE, ITS SICKENING WHAT IS GOIN GON IN TODAYS SOCIETY, AND MANY OF US ARE SUFFERING, AND HURTING BY IT, BUT ONLY WE CAN CHANGE IT FOR OURSELVES...AND PERSONALLY, I AM READY TO BLOW! NEW YEAR, NEW LIFE, HE CAN TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT...

Corinne,
Please pull yourself together. This man is not worth two sh*ts. Please, Corinne you can do so much better. Lord, you are beating yourself up like you killed a person or something. Okay, you told a lie. So what!!??!! We all have. It's not about him. It's about you and finding your inner strength. This man is a f*cking loser and I have yet to see one redeeming quality about him. This man is using you and now he is trying to cut you off, but putting the blame all on you. He is a coward. He is going to say "I can't believe you would do something like that" all the while, this a**hole been damn near begging you to f*ck a horse (not literally) for his viewing pleasure. You are not pathetic, and you damn sure don't deserve all this pain. He is a loser Corinne. Anyway, we love you unconditionally and there is no judgment from us. We're here to build each other up, not tear down. Anyway, you're in my thoughts.

Hugs and Kisses
daniellejordan

Hey STN,
How are you girlie? How is Paris? I know I haven't posted lately. I've been so busy with work and everything. Everything is well with me. My ex-MM and I have been able to go back to that place before we became lovers. We're great friends now. He's a person that's always going to be special in my life and I'll love him always. He feels the same way, but this was not our time and place. Anyway, hello to all the other ladies.... Dali, it'll get better. Just hang in there. I've been through every emotion you're going through. It too shall pass.

Hugs and Kisses
daniellejordan

Dear Corinne,

leave that pathetic man please! please get into therapy... please, i see that you cant seem to do it by yourself, you need someone to help you.
this is my sincere advice dear, you seem to lose perspective, he has been lying to you, what you did was a desparate way to seek his attention... and this love is only degrading you more. please stop, before it gets worse, please just seek help.

love and best wishes

dali

Hi Corinne

Gawd I just feel awful for the torment your MM is putting you through.
It seems to me he is all about convience to him, he calls you when he wants to talk and it always seems he talks about sex and fantasies with you.
He isn't concerned about you and how your dealing with this break-up. Your NOT a LOSER..stop putting yourself down, you fell in love..that's it.
Stop punishing yourself and most of all stop the desperate actions, nothing you say or do will make him come back, he will come back if he wants too.
It's NOT you. You are such a strong super person, start getting tough...I know it sounds like a huge demand but you need to start to live again..TIME will heal you if you let it.
You have to stop worrying what he thinks about you.
Your not a game..get tough...let him worry about you for a change. Don't answer his call. If you do it once, twice, three times it comes easier with TIME.
I am not religious but I do beleive in 2 things...

1. FAITE - you were put in this situtation for a reason, to survive and grow from it, it will lead you to your next....

2. DESTINY - the ultimate answer to every fricken tear drop you have had...it will all make sense, let it happen, let it go.

LOVE ALLISON.

I met a man at work , I didnt know he was married at first, we started dating or I really wouldnt call it dating, maybe I would just go to his friends house and he would come over to my house, I did find out he was married through one of our coworkers, he didnt even tell me himself. I quickly found my self falling in love with him, and wanting to be with him all the time but the more I wanted to see him it seemed the less I got to see him. He always came up with excuses for why he couldnt see me and these excuses got more and more elaborate, he also made up excuses for why he couldnt call me, my self esteem has seemed to drop to a level so low even I dont recognize myself. I took some stupid risks, even trying to get pregnant. I just told him that I dont want to see him anymore untill I see divorce papers in his hand, I dont think these will ever materialize, I dont even think I will hear from him again, you would think I would feel free but I am so sad, I had big hopes I guess, because I loved him we seemed to have such a connection, we could laugh together, cry together, ect. He hasnt even called me back thats how much I mean to him, Im sure he is with his wife and that eats me up inside so bad I cant stand it. Does any of this ever get any better???

I played the game and I lost.

My MM called me last night, angry. After begging him to tell me what was wrong he came out with "I can't belive you were so quick to be with him". I froze. What do I do I thought, he's angry because he thinks I did it, he'll be even angrier if he knows I lied and made the whole elaborate story up. He went on to tell me she's moved back, supposedly Sunday, and the relationship is loveless, sexless, she's there to help with the bills. I tried to explain I did exactly what he begged me to do, said he'd love me more if I did it. He said "I didn't hold a gun to your head". He said things like he doesn't need two women in his life nagging him, especially one "he doesn't even know", meaning me. After all this time and communications he says he doesn't know me. He said "I haven't seen you in 17 years". He said if i move there "you know what you'll be, the other woman and if you don't like it oh well, sorry". He was so cold and angry and its all my fault. I couldn't mutter the words I lied, I didn't do it. He probably wouldn't believe me in the first place. After 20 minutes of basically pleading on my knees on the phone he said she's coming back I've got to hang up. He claimed "I'll call you tomorrow", we said I love you and good night.

My world feels shattered and dead. I lied to the man I love and now he hates me for something I didn't even do, would never do, couldn't possibly ever do, and he likely wouldn't even believe me now if I told him I didn't. This is all my fault, I'm a dreadful despicable person and don't deserve this man's love or any others. I know he won't call me again, ever. I so regretted not telling him the truth after we hung up, I wanted to call him and tell him but didn't want to get him in trouble with her. I may just mail him a note telling him the truth and saying good bye.

I'm so lost.
Corinne

Corinne,
I really wish that you could see that you're not the loser. He is the loser. You made a mistake by answering his call. I just don't understand why you blame yourself for all of this. And listen to this Corinne, even if you did sleep with another man, you didn't do him wrong. You don't owe this man anything. How can you continue to hold onto a relationship that has given you so little? You keep mentioning the "spring and summer" Well, the spring and summer man is gone and its time for you to accept that. He is not the man for you. You have created this wondrous fantasy in your head thinking he is so wonderful and it's blinding you to the truth. He looks at you as a sex toy. He just wants to f*ck. Like I said, the spring and summer man is gone. Corinne, take back your power and stop with all that self-hatred and drowning in your own sorrow and depression. Enough is Enough. Get up and move on with your life. You are a good person and it's high time you start believing and living that every day. If you can't do it alone, then maybe you need to try therapy. Because you are in essence blaming yourself for all of his faults. He is dangling you by a string and instead of saying "it's all my fault", "I made a terrible mistake" you should be looking for some scissors. It is time to cut those strings loose. I don't know what to say to make you see what we all see. This man treats you terribly and you worrying about mailing him a note. This m*therfucker owe you a bunch a damn notes for his callous treatment of you. I know some people can't go cold turkey, but you need to try real hard because you aren't getting one thing good out of this situtation. You are stronger than this and it's time you step up and walk away from him..... never looking back.

Love
daniellejordan

PS I really would love to meet you girls in Paris too. That would be the absolutely best!!

Hello Marianne,
It does get better. But my advice to you would be to let him go until those divorce papers are in hand. As a woman who had an affair with a married man for almost two years, you are asking for nothing but pain and heartache. And even if he does leave her for you, then you'll be in Stage 2. Jamie really explained that well to us. It's best to let him handle his business completely and if its meant to be, it will be. I am speaking from experience.... I would never want another woman to suffer how I suffered because I fell in love and had an affair with a married man for far too long. For me, it didn't get better until I let him go and moved on with my life. The other ladies on this site all have shared the ways in which they've managed and/or ended the pain from being the OW. I wish you the very best and my sincerest advice is that when he calls you (and he will) just let him know it was good hearing from him, but you are moving on with your life and he's not included. Trust me, you'll save yourself a whole lot of heartache in the end. Best wishes.

daniellejordan

Could he be feeling as miserable as I am, thinking I actually did this vial despicable thing? Would he even believe me at this point if I told him I hadn't? What I wouldn't give to be able to reverse time. People lie all the time and never get caught, I do it once and look what I've done.

hello Danielle,

how are you... i need some reality check, here i am going back towards the fall again, i have agreed to a trip with my MM, for four days. i know it leads no where but i just want my break, to talk openly, enjoy a new place. this is not in the right direction, but could not help it.

STN miss you hope you having a good time.

love
dali

Hello Jamie,
I'm sorry to hear the x is giving you such difficulities, but it sounds like your relationship is strong enough to handle it. Hang in there, you future looks very happy and full of a loving relationship. I think he'll come around about the marriage thing too after is finished with legal matters with the x.

I know my MM is no good for me, but it has been 4 days since I've heard anything from him. This past weekend was the first weekend in 10 months that he didn't call me. I can't tell you how painful it was knowing that all this is because of the lie I told that has completely changed who I am in his eyes. Yeah if I had done it, it was at his begging and pleading, and he promised he would "love me even more" if I did, but I should have told him I coudln't do it, that I loved him too much to do that. I don't know why I lied to him about it, I just thought I was telling him what he wanted to hear. I so desperately want him to know I didn't do it.

I'm sorry, I can't help it, this is just killing me.

Corinne
XOXO

I know I sound like a broken record, and please forgive me for going on and on, I just have no other form of release. I feel so alone and ashamed of what has gone on. When my MM and I spoke last Wednesday, in his arguing at one point he said if I wanted him then I’d be there at 8:30 this morning. He’s off today. I told him I couldn’t do that, especially with all the horrible things he was saying and the fact that he’d just admitted that she’d come back. He said fine, whatever, along with all those horrible other things that keep sounding through my head. Anyway, so I know he’s home right now, I called knowing he’d see my number and either answer or not. I called twice, he didn’t answer neither did she, if she was there. There is my confirmation, he is furious because he believes I was with this other man and I’m done.

I’m so confused, I just don’t understand how this all happened. I told him exactly what he was begging to hear, what he wanted me to do, how can he turn on me like this. Right before I was supposedly going to “do it” with this other man, he swore how much he loved me, how he wanted to make love to me, please do this for him he said, “I want to hear about it”. Days after he tells me he can’t stop getting off over it, it was so exciting to him, then BAM, he’s gone and suddenly I’m a slut. I made him believe I’d done it but that I was very upset about it, felt dirty, needed his support and at first he assured me nothing had changed, he loved me. Then he’d say things like “you liked it, it felt good, you want more I know you do”, even begged me to do it again. Whenever I’d say I did it for him, he’d say “I don’t want to hear that I want to hear it felt good”. The more I think about all the scattered things he said the more I wonder what the hell happened? I mean truly, if I’d really done it, I did exactly what he begged for and wanted to hear, why in the hell would he turn on me like this. He’s completely shut me out…why?

I so desperately want him to know I didn’t do it, that I’m not that person. I can’t help but feel this is all my fault, if I hadn’t lied, if I hadn’t told him I was with that other man and told him the truth, that it is he I love and only he who I want touching me, then none of this would have happened? He would still be talking to me. I’m really so lost, I’m so confused and hurt I feel I can’t survive.

I’m sorry to seem like such a pathetic burden.

Corinne

Hi everybody.
I'm new to this forum, I was just browsing the Internet looking for some kind of support and I've come into this forum.
I'm a 48 Italian woman and I've been dating a married man for almost two years. Well to be honest our affair started a very long time ago, 13 years ago to be precise. I'm a translator and he's a colleague of mine, an English guy who works and lives in Italy and is married to an Italian woman. As most affairs, it started at work, we've been immediately and mutually attracted to each other. At the time he had been married for some three years and had a one year old boy. We had a short and intense relationship, especially as far as sex was concerned. He told me that there were some problems with his wife in the bedroom. The whole thing didn't last long, a couple of months, than he dumped me, he felt guilty towards his wife and felt bad for betraying her. I was hurt but I didn't really loved him so we've remained friends and managed to see each other once or twice a year. In the meantime I had other relationships (all of them ended badly, I've come to the conclusion that there must be something wrong with me).
Anyway, a couple of years ago we started to see each other more frequently, and before I knew it we were in love. Now I don't want to enter into details but we shared an intimacy that I had never experienced before. We spent wonderful days together, sharing interests and food and wine, not to talk about the most wonderful sex I've ever had. But of course this bliss can't last forever. I'm sure you all know how does it feel to be the 'other'. Everyone and everything come first. To cut it short, we started to have arguments, besides his wife suffers from some genetic disorder which makes difficult for her to walk, and this made things for us even worse. I forgot to say that yes he's still married but things with his wife are not really working, they sleep in separate bedroom and they stopped having sex soon after his son's birth. We got through a very difficult time, our relationship had turned into a rollercoaster, we either had a wonderful time or we fighted all the time. I blame myself for that, I had a bad year and I was so stupid not to ask for help until late November, when I decided that it was time to seek advice and saw my doctor who put me on antidepressants.
I managed to go through the worst month of the year(yes another price we pay for being in a relationship with a married man). Last Friday we met for a pizza and he dumped me. He said that things got worse at home and he couldn't cope with the situation any longer. He cares too much for me and doesn't want me to be unhappy. I'm quoting him. All he wants is my happyness. And going back to just being friends. As if I were a tape you can rewind or a computer where you can restore the system configuration, reboot and everything is back to a given point. I think that he stopped loving me. Now all I get are texts and a very business like email where he replaced the 'I love you' with a cold 'love' or 'lots of love'.
I'm not keen on giving advice or delivering sermons but if there is someone out there who's about to embark in a relationship with a married man, please give it a hundred thoughts and if you are already involved in it but not so deeply in love, well leave the ship before it sinks. Because you are the only one who's going to pay.
I thank everybody for listening, I have no one I can talk to and I need to share my feelings with someone who can understand and not judge me.
It goes without saying that I'm in pieces, it's three days I can't stop crying and spend sleepless nights. Any advice to help me to get over this is welcome.
Thanks again.
lillybit

It's called "getting you where he wants you". he set you up. sometimes a guy will be intensely focused on getting a woman to do something out of SELF love. it's like a guy who piles pressure on you to sleep with him then doesn't call if ever you let him get his way. likely also he wanted an excuse to dump you, which left the door open for him to reverse his decision if he ever changed his mind on a whim, by tricking you into thinking it was something you had done wrong.

now corinne, i'm trying to be very polite, but there's only so many ways you can say this. take that stinky, lying, immature, using prick's number out of your phone, and don't call it again. not ever. the only way he will come back is if he thinks hs's losing his hold on you. but hopefully if he does, he'll be out of your hair by then.

trust me - you're not missing him. you're missing you. you need to build yourself up. you may not have a boyfriend but you still need your self-respect.... you think it will ever be better than this? can you doubt in five years time he'll still be playing cruel mind tricks with you?

and just suppose he is angry for you sleeping with another man (as he asked). he does that all the time to you. what are you apologising for? you gotta life of your own girl.

read your story, very sad... he doesn't sound like such a bad guy, but from what i understand of affairs, they hurt you more the longer you are in them. you have to look for the good in your life. you are a trnaslator... that must be a great job. why not take a special trip somewhere that's just about you? one of the girls here has just been to Paris... and you know, better that he's not available to you so long as you'd do anything to have him back. maybe you are worth more than that.

Me again.

I'm sorry for the frequent posts today. I wanted to let you all know I got in touch with him. It was a brief awkward conversation but in the end I told him about my lie. He kept saying "don't change your story", but I just kept saying that was all it was, just a story, that I was afraid to tell him I didn't go through with something he so desperately wanted me to do and was devastated when he was then upset when he thought I'd done it.

Honestly I don't know if he believed me or not but at this point all I know is I know the truth, I expressed it to him, and that is all I can do. I may never hear from him again, and that will be very hard and sad for me, but at least I told him.

This has somewhat taken some of the guilt off my shoulders. Thank you all for dealing with my rantings and for still loving and caring about me.

Much love!
Corinne
XOXO

Hi Jamie - Great to hear from you.

Trust me, your MM's knows the nutjob she's become, you know when women get desperate they do stupid things, men can sense that and that drives them away..everyday with you is another day of confirmation that you were meant to be together. I know it's so easy to always think "what if"..men don't..
They make decisions and that's it. The kids will accept you, but truly that isn't your concern. Your biggest concern is just to continue the loving relationship you have.
The marriage issue: I don't think he feels that he failed at that. You see don't count him out on this, if he loves you truly and that's something you want, he will do it, for you, for both of you. You are almost there at the brink, just think on how far you both have come. The rest is gravy my dear, hang in there. Every single day his love continues to grow and don't think for one minute he doesn't know how hard it is for you. Keep strong girl, time will tell.

I should speak TIME...seems to be my biggest enemy and best friend at once.
Am I strong enough ? Well here's another update....

He finally said it!! After a very emotional conversation, He admitted to me he doesn't love his wife anymore, he isn't connected to her at all, he even told me that on their wedding day he didn't say I love you...he said he never beleived in those words until me...he wishes I could understand how much he loves me..so I just blurted..are you going to leave her ?
He says..when in 3,6 months..I said NO..are you going to leave her period.
He says..I can't see myself staying in this marriage much longer, so yes.

So that's where it's at right now, things seem to be moving forward into a direction, like I said earlier time will tell...

Hi Lilybit...

Maybe it's just space you guys need right now, there is a lot of stress it seems you both have put on yourselves. I guess you have to ask yourself, were you happy or fighting the most. Seems like a love/hate to me..you loved him but you also felt anger that he didn't be yours. It also sounds like he truly wants you to be happy and the stress of his marriage isn't helping you.

Give it some time, that may proove to be the answer. I know it sounds totally cheezie but sometimes no interaction is the best and puts things into perspective for you. If he aches and misses you, he will be back.

Hi Pie,
thanks for your help. I have been thinking of taking a trip somewhere for a long time and I'll probably do that, I need a change and I need to put some distance between us.
I'm not going to do anything to have him back, not because he's a bad guy, but because there is no chance for me, he will never leave his family and I don't want that either, I don't want to build my happiness on other people's grief. I have always known that, so it's my fault too, I should have known better than this.

Hi Allison,
you got it! Yes it's a sort of love/hate. I love him and I hate him because he's not with me and will never be. But I've always known that. And I'm angry with him because he's somehow giving up his life to a woman he doesn't love any more, if not as a sister, out of duty. But I would do the same if I were in his shoes, after all he has a son he can't leave and a woman who needs him... I know that he can't imagine his life without them. He is not a bad guy, he is the right man in a wrong situation. I am the loser and I have to accept it and let him go.
I am sure he misses me, at least as much as I miss him but I know that he really wants me to be happy and he knows that I'm not happy with this situation.
I won't do anything to have him back, won't plead and cry and lose that little dignity that's left. After three days of non stop crying, today I haven't cried yet but I am very sad of course. I don't know how much time it will take to get over it, and probably he will always the one I truly loved but I know that things won't change for us. And I'm not saying that because I'm a pessimist but because I know that for sure.
I've never told my story before and to find the courage of telling it here has been the first step to overcome it.

Hello all!
Today is a new day and for the first time in a week I didn’t wake up feeling sad. A lot of that was in part to all of you and your constant kind, thoughtful and loving words of support. Also, I feel free now that I’ve admitted to my MM the horrible lie I told about fulfilling his fantasy of me sleeping with another man. I’m most grateful that I didn’t actually sleep with another man just to get my MM off, and I’m so glad I told him MM I lied. Whether he believed me or not I don’t care. Pie, I think you are completely right, he did set a trap for me that he could use either to get off, or get rid of me.

He did call a few times yesterday so I think maybe he’s decided he doesn’t want to get rid of me, but in all the despair I felt over the last week, the damage he’s done seems irreversible. I don’t feel any connection to him anymore, not that I mean I don’t love him because unfortunately I do still, very much, but I don’t feel love is a mutual feeling for him and that connection I thought I had before just isn’t there anymore. I’m his f**k puppet, and that is all. He’s made that very clear, especially with his statement “you’ll know what you be when you move here, if you don’t like it then oh well, sorry”. It was a cold harsh slap in the face, but a good reality check. He doesn’t love me, I don’t think he ever did. 20 years I’ve loved this man, 20 years all I wanted was for him to love me, to tell him about the beautiful child he gave me. He doesn’t care about any of it or about me.

The pain of letting go is still so great and at times takes my breath away. My heart aches for him, or at least the person I thought he was, and I’m sure this love will forever be a thorn to me, but I’m going to try and move on from here. I think he’ll probably call again and each time I’ll try to be stronger to let go and say good bye. It will be a slow process, but I see it is necessary.

Pie, please don’t feel you words were too harsh, they were said in loving caring thought and I definitely took them to heart. I do realize love isn’t supposed to hurt like this, and I realize he is only playing me. I wish I didn’t love him, I don’t know why I do, but I do realize what you say is so true. Yeah it hurts, but the truth isn’t always easy, its just something we have to face sometimes.

Thank you all for supporting my rantings. I do love you all! I’ll continue to let you know how things are going and I of course want to know how all of you are. STN, I hope you are doing well! Are you still in Paris? I look forward to seeing a post from you. Dali, I hope your trip goes well and gives you happiness. I’m thinking of you! Jamie, I pray for your beautiful love to continue to grow! Allison, DanielleJordan, you are all my dear friends! I love you very much!

Much love!
Corinne

Hi ladies,
Lillybit, You are going to be just fine and you made the right decision. It's hard at first, but as the days past.... the pain subsides and you move on with your life. It's a choice you make. You have to choose to be let him go and find your own happiness. Speaking of choices, Corrine.... when are you going to choose to let that that fool go? :) You should be counting your blessings. Let him be his wife's headache. Believe me, you are not missing out on a prize!!! Hey STN, how are you girl? Enjoying Paris.... I suspect. Dali, enjoy your trip. and that's my honest opinion and advice. Just keep it in perspective as best you can. I don't turn down trips. Don't have to ask me twice!!!! :) Jamie, stop letting that whack job ex get to you. Be secure in the fact that you have him. She's getting desperate because she can tell he really doesn't want her anymore. Allison, I'm happy that your relationship is going so well. You make us all proud. Hey pie, happy to see you back sharing your words of wisdom. :) You used to give us a mighty hard time. But we love you. You a part of the family too. Anyway, all is well with me. I can say that I'm really happy right now and I gained a lot from my experience. I wouldn't do it again, but life is about mistakes, regrets, falling down, and most importantly... getting back up and keepin it movin. Love you ladies

daniellejordan

Oh Corrine,
You are going to make me tear up. You have made my day. I am glad you are feeling better today and beginning to see the person he really is. It hurts, but it's such an important step towards moving on when the blinders come off. I am just so happy for you. There are going to sad days, but just remember that you are choosing to go through this short term pain so that you can have a greater happiness in the end. It's okay that you still love him and will always love him. But you're putting yourself first by saying this is an unhealthy situation for me. So I'm going to love myself more. Each day, as you disconnect yourself from him more and more, the better you will feel. It's a process, but it's well worth the reward if you stay the course. We're all here for you.

daniellejordan

Hi Danielle

Thanks for giving me some insight here. Its so funny how we can all give advice to others but when it comes to our own situations we're in the dark. Your right, its very simple, if he wanted her back, he would of went a long time ago. I need to stop worrying all the time about this. It really helps to hear it, especially from other women that are in my shoes.

Corinne-
I am very happy for you! You already seem alot stronger, and believe me..you will feel so much better in the long run. I know how difficult it is to leave something that you love dearly. Everything happens for a reason hun, this may give you two a break so he can come to his senses and realize what he may lose if he doesn't shape up.

STN-
I hope your enjoying your time in Paris. God I wish I was there, it must be really beautiful. I also want to thankyou for your kind words and loving advice that you give all of us. Can't wait to talk to you when you get back!

Allison-
My little sweety! Haha ( I know that's what he calls you!) Its so nice to hear your stories. Your really on pace for a beautiful relationship. You have such a great man that loves you so much. You give us all hope!

xoxoxo
Jamie

Hello DanielleJordan,
I'm trying so hard. The afternoon's are so painful because it is the time of day (when things were good) we talked often and for hours. He hasn't called me today and I have resisted my demons (with great difficulty) and not called him.

You are right, more difficult times are ahead of me, sad times and lonely times. I think about him constantly, it is so sad to know I'll never feel his love, that he chose her, never loved me or cared. I can't explain to you how beautiful and loving all our conversations were for the beginning 8 months. The last two months have been very difficult and emotionally wrecking for me. I know I can't get back the person I thought he was but god I miss those talks, feeling he loved me, feeling it was me he wanted. He really made me believe that.

Part of me wants to hear from him, part of me wants him to never call again. I wouldn't be able to say good bye to him, tell him I can't accept being just his little f**k puppet for the rest of my days knowing his heart isn't with me. Danielle Jordan I love him, how do I let that go. I know he's bad for me, I know he's been horrible and the pain he put me through over the past week has been unimaginable. It has caused irreversible damage for me, but all that still hasn't made the love go away. Its going to take time, I realize that, but god this hurts. I feel like a part of me has died.

I'm sorry, I'm trying, I really am. Today was better. Day by day.

Thank you!
Love you!
Corinne

Hey everyone!

Corrine you sound so much better, day by day girl, you can do it!
Same with you Lilybit. I feel so blessed to be able to come on here everyday and see the progress that has happened..Danielle and Pie you guys have come so far and really provide hope..sure we all want the happy endings like Jamie. But if the happy ending doesn't happen, well all know the odds stacked up against us it's great to have the support either way.

You see the main thing we all have in common, it's not the MM, it's the guts to love, the will to try and the belief in all things real. Following our heart, many people will NEVER have that.
We can't control who we love, but we can control when.

So ladies going through the hard part..just believe, it's gonna get better and have faith love exists for you again. You'll see..

Love Allison.

Hello Lillybit,
It has take me a few days to respond to your post. You and I seem to be sharing our despair at the same time, and our situations are somewhat similar. My affiar with my MM started in 1987, the physical part (which was amazing) of it ended in 89 when he moved away but for the last 17 years we've kept contact. At first it was a few times a year but we always reminded eachother of our love and feeling for one another. 10 months ago the conversations became every day and very intense until last week. I won't rehash everything again, I'm sure you've seen my posts as well, and last week I hit rock bottom. I definitely share your pain and understand the desperate feelings you are having. Every day is a struggle, and I myself haven't reached the point where it levels off yet but that time will come, for both of us. The ladies on this site are beautiful lovely ladies and are great support, I love them all.

In your situation I don't believe that your MM has fallen out of love for you, it sounds like you share a beautiful love, but he seems bound by obligation to his ill wife. It must have been equally as hard for him to let you go, but his love is why he thinks he should let you go, to not hold you back. His cold business like attitude is his own shield thinking it will help you move on from him, and protect himself from breaking down. I don't think it sounds like he'll be able to keep that up for too long, more like he'll come around to you.

Please hold on and know you are not alone. We all have had these feelings of despair and you and I are going through it at the same time. We are here for you and I'll give you as much advise as I can, however I don't think I'm in the best position to give the best advise right now. I know it sounds like he loves you, still loves you and you love him. Hold on to that and embrase the happy memories to get you through.

I do agree with your advise to other woman who consider a relationship with a MM, turn and walk away from the situation, it will only cause you pain. Unless there is a divorce/seperation in process, for your own sake take yourself out of the situation, please.

Please do keep us posted lillybit, we are in this together and will get through it together.

Much love
Corinne

Hello Allison,
Thank you for your sweet words and supporting me. I continuing trying. Certain times of the day are more difficult. When I wake up I’m hit with the sinking feeling that he’s gone, in the afternoon I look at my phone a million times to see if I’ve missed a call. I’m constantly fighting the demons that make me want to call him. I'm so grateful that I was able to speak to him on Monday and tell him the truth, that I lied to him about fulfilling his fantasy, I had to let him know that, and I was so happy that a few times after that call he did call me back (with the usual odd sex talk), but our last conversation was noon that day, he said "I'll call you back", and I haven't heard from him since. That is the only day we've spoken in over a weeks time. In the last 10 months we hadn't gone more the 24 hours without talking and now its been a week. I don't understand how a week ago Friday he claimed how much he loves me, begged me to be there with him, to now not so much as a word.

I cry every time I’m alone, words he’s said resound in my head from the good to the bad. I miss him so much. You know I’ve loved this man since I was a young girl, for 20 years and have missed him for the last 17, I don’t know any other way. I know he’s lied to me, in fact it could be that nothing he’s said to me over the past 10 months could be true, but I can’t help loving him. I’m a pathetic bum magnet. I’m just lost, but I’m trying.

Thanks for being there!
Much Love,
Corinne

Hello Corinne,
Thank you for your reply. It's a great comfort to me to know that there are other people here I can share my pain with. I'm really sorry you're having such a bad time and be sure that I know how you're feeling, I'm very close to you. It's amazing how much our situations coincide, I hit the bottom last week too and it goes without saying that things haven't improved very much since then. We're still in touch, via emails and texts and this somehow makes things even more difficult. Because he's really a good guy, he has always been good to me and this is why I feel so desperate. But on the other hand I know I'll never have him, he's too committed for that. We love each other but can't be together. Besides I'm to blame too, because I behaved in a very selfish way with him, always refusing to acknowledge his problems. I wasn't a great support. I suppose that I didn't want to waste the little time we had together talking about his family life. This morning I woke up with the unpleasant sensation that even if we were still be seeing each other, what we could share is so little compared to what he has had with his wife,the years they spent together day by day, the support they gave each other, the difficulties they went through and managed to overcome together. I don't know if you or anybody here has ever felt this way, but Corinne these are the things our MM will never be able to give us and I think that we deserve them. We are utterly alone and their life is elsewhere. At least as my MM is concerned. And this time I am determined to get out of this grip once forever.
Corinne I do really hope you feel better these days. From what I get from your posts, you are being very brave and you're not seeing him. I understand how lonely you must feel. I hope you have someone to talk to, aside from us here.
And I'll always be happy to hear from you and the other nice girls here.
So let's go on, the struggle isn't over...
Lots of love
lillybit

Hello Jamie
My mind is a bit clearer today and I realize I didn't really respond to your amazing message. I read it again today, I can't believe how much time you took out for me to clearly explain all my MM's misgivings and how wrongly he has been treating me. You are right, he does lie to me on a regular basis, his idea of wanting to watch me get f**ked is pathetic, disgusting and degrading. Have you ever seen that movie 9 1/2 weeks? He's like that guy in the movie, wants me to do things when I'm alone and video them, wants to watch me with other people, wants to tie me down and "f**k me up" (as he says). Please don't think it was always like that, two months ago it was beautiful, kind and loving. It's was about October he changed some how, something happened. It has been since then that I've felt I have been fighting for him on a daily basis, some days were good and beautiful, others were horrible. In the beginning of our conversations sex was only part of the conversation, by the end of October it was nothing but sex talk. I don't really understand why or how that happened.

He'd said so many beautiful things to me in the past, recently and even over the 17 years we didn't talk as frequently, that is what I'm missing and needing so much. You know I'm shaking right now because it's 3:30 here, the time he usually gets home and would (in months past) call me, but nothing. I'm clinging to this phone praying for it to vibrate and nothing. How pathetic am I. I'm fighting myself not to call him, I know doing that would only cause more pain. This is how my days have been. You are right, every time he talks about perverted things he wants me to do does hurt, very much, and I have wanted to tell him to f**k off, but my heart couldn’t do it. This is an emotional battering and the only reason I feel I deserve it is because of the lie, I lied to him, told him what I thought he wanted to hear and it backfired on me. I feel like I’ve completely changed who I am to him and he doesn’t like it.

I shouldn’t go on and on again, I just wanted to respond to you because I realized in all my rantings I hadn’t really told you how much I appreciate your words and advise. Believe me I take every word to heart and try to listen to it. It’s just so hard right now, I love him so much (for some reason) and I miss him desperately. Right now the pain is just so hard to handle I can’t seem to take control of it yet. I’m confused, hurt, I don’t understand what happened, why it’s ended this way.

I also want you to know I’m so happy for you and the love you have. I can understand you having some feelings of uncertainty, I live with pessimism, but your love sounds real and beautiful. Good for you, you go girl!

Much Love
Corinne

Good morning everyone,
I'm afraid I'm a weak pathetic individual. Despite all my thought waves trying to not speak to my MM, he called. The sound of his voice simply turns me to melted butter, especially when he is saying how much he wants me and needs me. He called Wednesday night and yesterday afternoon. He keeps asking what I'm waiting for, why I haven't come to him yet. Yesterday he said "you've been telling me for 8 months you were moving here, where are you, stop talking about it and do it". And yet his wife has moved back in, he says nothings changed they are just roomies, no intimacy just cohabitating together. How can I believe that, even his son is staying with his mother to give he and his wife time alone to work things out. Again in the afternoon he said I'll call you in a little while. Surprise, I'm still waiting. Why does he still tell me he needs me, loves me, wants me, why would he want me to be there only to see me what twice a month when he can get away. I don't understand why he just won't leave me alone. The loneliness is heart crushing but this yo yo is even worse. When we talk I laugh, when we hang up I start crying.

I wish I could make you all proud and see I'm moving on but I'm stuck in this miserable place, so in love with this man who dangles himself in front of me like a string to a cat, and I can't seem to let go. God I'm just so in love with him the thought of losing even the sound of his voice terrifies me. I'm a pathetic creature.

I love you all, I hope you are well.
Corinne

hello Corinne,

we all go through the yo yo stage, i am going through it. they call back because at some level they need you, but they dont love you. if they really did they would be working like hell to be with you. love is like ambition it makes you selfish, in the fact that you want to be with the other half all the time, so if it was really love, he would have come to you. so he does not love you... just start thinking that way.
in your case, as everyone else has told you just do not pick up the phone. he is not worth it, it will be difficult, it will hurt but eventually it will be for the better.
i have had e very long and difficult week, end semester and all that. still not decided on the trip, see dear i am a yo-yo too, so dont worry, just work it in your mind, get the desperation out... one day at a time, if you can take the major step then take small once. you dont call, if he does take alternate calls, then every third call etc... its all in the mind, give it up in the mind

take care
dali

hello lillybit,

i agree with what you say, about the time MM and his world... and we can also be that world, and make new memories in another setup if the make us their world... otherwise it is lonely and desparate.
i wish you a speedy recovery :-), pain is also a sickness after all, and also an addiction sometimes.
take care

dali

Hello Corinne,
yes Dali is correct, we all seem to go through this stage. Which is the most difficult and painful. I'm not exception and I'm going through it as well. In my case I'm the one who doesn't want to end it, I'm the one who sends frantic texts and emails. Until last night. Now I've definitely made up my mind, I want him to be history. He will never ever be with me and, given the situation, we won't even be friends, I don't think I can consider him a friend, not now and not for a very long time.
The sooner he's out of my life the better.
I think that you should do the same, I've read all your posts and the replies you got and I completely agree with each word Jamie told you. This man is a womanizer, he's abusing you, he's trying to trick you into something you don't want. And most of all, he doesn't even remotely love you. You have to face that, this man is just selfish, he wants to make sure he still have the power on you, that you're still there ready for him, should he decide to show up again. Do you really want to live with a man who will cheat on you all the time? Who wants you to have sex with others to fulfill his perversion? And who would deeply despise you afterwards if you agree to do that. No judgment here, sex is a playground and people are free to do what they want, provided they both agree and like these games.I know many couples who are into this. But I gather that you wouldn't be comfortable with that, you just want to please him hoping he will be back to you and love you because you did something he wanted you to do. You couldn't be more wrong. He would despise you and treat you like a slut. How can you love a man like that?? I'm sorry if I do sound so harsh, I guess I'm not the kind of person who sugarcoats things.
But I'm truly sorry to hear that you are so bad, I'm bad too and we both seem very lonely and apparently we don't have anybody to talk to. Loneliness plays a great role, but being with the wrong man can even be worse. I'm not very good at giving advice, but try to forget him, think that he's just using you but, once again, he doesn't love you. And are you sure you love him? Sometimes it sounds like you're obsessed with him.
Lots of love
lillybit

use your head, follow your head and not your heart, you are way too young to be involved with this bullshit, (you may not think so) read the other blogs. don't waste anymore time or emotions, you'll appreciate this 1,2,3 or even 5 years from now. You will not be the same person you are now in 5 years. Put yourself first!!!!

Hi Ladies,

I can see that there are so many posts to catch up on - unfortunately i still don't have my normal email access and can't read everything, there's just time for a quick note while i'm on the run. i have to tell you that things are settling down a bit for me, but once i left my mm and that town behind, i started to decompress...and i went through some painful changes. i had horrible nightmares for a while and still have bad ones every other night or so. it's hard adjusting to my new life, but i can tell you, as alone as i feel, as sad about the past, well, i just know that i'm healthier than i've been in ages. it feels good to clean up my life, even if getting rid of my MM means that there are some huge gaping holes in my heart and my life. anyway, in hindsight, and from a different continent, things do look better. corinne, i can't tell exactly how things are for you now since i don't have too much time to read, but i glanced over some of your messages and i have to tell you that i think it would be great for you to get out of your pattern. if you can break things up in your life, you might not keep running around and around in that same destructive circle you've gotten yourself caught in. we are all really concerned for you and we all KNOW that you deserve better than what you get from your MM. i wish you all could meet me in paris. i know gettin away like that would do wonders for your perspective on your situation. i decided to stay a couple of more weeks here (paris), some of my family is coming to see me because they can tell i've takn a wrong turn in life and we're going to try to mend some old wounds. i hope it works. i know i need to fix some relationships if i can, or at least improve them and maybe i won't feel so lonely anymore and maybe i won't be such an easy target for men who want to make me dependent on them. i hope things will get better for me, and if any or all of you suddenly you go crazy and want to completely cut loose, just go ahead and buy that ticket to paris and i'll be waiting for you all here! my mm expects me to call him from here, but does he ever offer to call me? no. last i heard he had emailed a female friend of mine who had betrayed both of us. he's such an ass. of course i still love him, there's some kind of bond between us that i can't get over, but i'm better now because i'm just not all that worried anymore about making sure he's happy with me. and when i wake up i the morning, the first thing i say to myself is that i don't want anything other than what i already have in life and i love myself first. i hope he's well, but i'm taking care of myself first these days. it helps a lot.
i'll try to read more posts if i can later, it's hard to get email here, but i'm really thinking of all of you often here and want to know how things are going.
i'm going to post this now and see if i can do a better job of catching up on what's been happening with all of you.
xoxo stn

Hi Emily

I know that moraly and mentaly speaking stopping is the best thing to do.. But it's just so hard en the problem is also that I don't really want it I guess. Maybe it's difficult to understand because I hardly understand it myself but the last five years of my life were rather difficult for me and now this summer I was happy, I don't want to loose that again.. and he's my best friend as well. I appreciate him as a person and as a friend also. Maybe I'm living in an illusion, that's possible.. but I hope that at the end everything will be ok and I will find some happiness in my life...

Anyway thanks for the reply!

Take care!

I know it's the hardest thing you will probably ever do...but you need to take care of you first. I'm speaking from experience, my mm left his wife and moved into my condo with me. Everything was great. We had been seeing each other for about 3 years and yes he does have kids (4) ages 7 to 18, he finally left her after I told him that we're done. We had been living together for about 1 1/2 years and I was in total bliss I thought we would get married, have kids, buy a home everything you want when you get married, but the fact is it doesn't work that way. He continued to see his kids (which meant he saw more of his ex)and after being divorced for for almost 2 years guess where he wound up.... yup back with the ex. I feel he dragged me around for almost 5 years for his convenience at his convenience, the degpression is enough to kill you, I've learned to stayed so far away from mm, they can't be honest to themselves or anyonelse. Let me know how things go and be strong.

Hey Danielle,
I'm so glad to read that you and your MM became friends again. That give me hope. I was concerned a while back when I thought you two had stopped talking forever, I was afraid the same would happen to me and my MM. I feel a lot like you do now, I feel like I'll always have a special place for my MM in my heart, but this just isn't our lifetime to be together, if you know what I mean. I feel like in this life I'm living, I have to learn to accept that I can love someone with my whole heart and still let him go. Learning this kind of acceptance has taught me to focus on what I'm glad I have, and to focus on the relationships that I can build. In a way it's been good for me, but I have to say if I think about it on low-energy days, my heart is really broken. But what are we supposed to do that we haven't already done? Anyway, we've done our best and the future will have to take care of itself. Do you ever wonder if he'll be the person you think of with your last thought, before you die? I sometimes have this morbid thought. I feel like my MM, as awful as he was in so many ways, is the person I've loved more than anyone in my entire life...i feel like he's my soul mate, even if he can't be mine in my normal life. I guess that sounds strange, oh well, this whole affair has made me strange. I'm just glad you've pulled through and found your way back to being friends with him. Does his wife know you two are friends? If I had a husband who was friends with a woman in the way I'm friends with my MM, I have to admit I'd be heartbroken. The bond is just too deep (at least the way I feel it, sometimes I'm not too sure how he feels it).
Love, STN

Hi Allison, I just wanted to say I think you're absolutely right. We had the guts to love completely. That's true. And maybe this life isn't made for the kind of love most of us have felt, but I know for sure that loving my MM, as much of a dreamworld as it was, was still the most real, deep and meaningful experience I've ever had. It's so strange that living in the dreamworld where our love existed turned out to be the most real experience of my life...I don't really get it even now, but I do see that my life will be changed forever because of it. And I'm a better person by far because of the experience. My life is more real than it's ever been because of it and it did take a lot of guts and a pure heart to love the way I love my MM. You're right, when we believed in our love, we believed in something real. Our MM are living lives built on a different kind of love, otherwise, why would they seek us out in the first place? I know a lot of people won't agree with what I just said, but I really do believe that my MM loves me in a way he'll never love his wife. His love for his wife is a practical thing, his life with her is conventional. What we have shared seems to be something that exists beyond the limits of practicality and convention, it's a bond I think I'll feel forever. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe things will change, but it's how I've felt all along through thick and thin with him. It may not get me anything concrete in the end, but loving my MM has changed me fundamentally and forever.
xoxo, stn

Hi Dali,
What did you decide about your trip? I can understand why you might want to go and why you might not want to go.... I know that I still need some time with my MM, I need to make sure things are okay between us, or I just don't feel good about myself and my situation. I'm not as desperate as I used to be, but a part of me still panics if I think we might never talk again, if I think I'll never see him again. And another part of me never wants to talk to or see him again, but that's not a part of me I like much. If we can find a way to a peaceful relationship, one without sex or too much intimacy, then I think it's a good thing. Getting there has been hard. Letting go completely was too hard and I don't want that. So I can see how stabilizing your relationship with your MM is appealing. I guess in the end, for me, it's important to keep loving my MM, but in a way that isn't destructive or unhealthy or unfair. Do you feel the same way or are you looking for something else from the trip you might take? I wonder what your MM hopes to get out of the trip. Do you think he'll try to convince you to maintain the physical side of the affair again? I hope you find what you're looking for in your relationship with him, I hope you can find that peaceful place in yourself where you know you've done the best you could and the right things in the end.
Paris is expensive. People can be so rude here. But I'm so glad to be in another context, I can see things more clearly from here. I have some space to practice forgiving myself and for learning how to live without wanting more from life than it can offer. I guess I'm lucky to have this chance. I know I'm lucky, in fact. At the end of the day, it still hurts, but there's so much to see here, so many distractions, so few reminders of him, no one here who even knows or cares about him that I'm returning bit by bit to who I used to be when he wasn't the center of my life. It feels like someone I love is dying, but it also feels like I'm getting a second chance at life. To be honest, I almost killed myself this year several times. Now that I'm living in a part of the world where he only exists in my thoughts (instead of in my life), I can see what a mistake that would have been. From now on, since he's not in my living space anymore, he's only what my thoughts and feelings make of him, nothing more, nothing less. I can choose to remember the good and let the rest go. That's what I've opted for and I think it was the right choice.
Anyway, those are just thoughts from Paris. I won't be able to use email again for a while, so I hope that when I return to it I'll find news about you and your trip. I hope you make the decision that will be best for you.
Love, STN

keep in touch, i have so much to tell you, i.e., the direction your heading for, don't lose hope but let me know

I screwed up there, anyhow keep in touch, i know what you are going thru and i think i can give you some sound advice, i'll tell you all about our situation and how it began and ended, our age diff and other stuff, please keep in touch.

em

Dear Emily

I really appreciate your reply.. However I can't promise you that I won't continue this...pathetic and without caracter I know :o( but I care for him.. I even think I never had this before...

It all may sound like a "cliché" but he seems nice to me, not a don juan type or someone who has a whole bunch of women all the time.
The hardest thing for me is that I feel so guilty in front of his wife and children but also in front of my parents who would never think I would do something like this, but on the other hand it really feels good (the feelings I mean) and I hope that it's going to be ok, because he makes me feel good, it's like finally I won't be alone anymore and I will be able to start my life... It may sound ridiculous I know..

Anyway, I'm really sorry for the things that happened to you, I'm sure it hurts a lot because I sometimes feel already hurt and it's probably nothing compared to what you made through.

Take care!!

Hi STN.

I feel like we know eachother from all the posts that I have read from your journey. I know exactly what you mean by "maybe I'm wrong"...darling you can't be wrong. The game isn't about who's right or wrong..do you feel it..the feeling of you can get through anything, don't you feel empowered! As much as the MM have put us through good or bad, they all seemed to leave us with one thing - a toughness we could never get in a normal relationship. I can't describe it..but it does this to us..

- Makes us independant, makes us want to travel, embark on new things
- View the world as it's our own
- It makes us cry like a little baby when you almost forgot how to feel

Hey I know..my relationship seems positive right now, but lately it's been a rollercoaster ride of emotional drain, not to mention the copial amounts of red wine I have been consuming..!! Anyhow what I am trying to say as much as they hurt us, they also provided a re-birth. Bet your ass there is no stronger woman out there than us!! The Other Woman...NO ....the Woman they LOVED.

Love ya STN, hang in there baby...Allison

Hi Allison,
Thank you so much. You're right, when my head is on straight and my energy is high, that's exactly how I feel. I'm a new person, or at least a better person because of this. Yes, there's a huge hole in my heart right now and yes, I do still love him, but in the long run, I'm learning how to invest myself in people who love me back and especially how to love myself because I can't count on anyone to always be there for me except myself. It's making me tough and it's making me compassionate all at the same time. Good lord is it hard, but you're right, having the power back makes me feel like I fought the hardest battle of my life and won. Thank God. And now I'm awake to life again, I was nearly dead before.
I think I used to think it wasn't about power, but that's what it was in a large part because my MM tried to control me...and it worked. He controlled my emotions and my psyche for a year before i got a handle on them again. Now he's the one sitting and waiting for a word from me and heaven knows he deserves to wait and wait and wait and wait.
I've got to run, but thanks for the words of support, they really help me.
xoxo, stn

Hi there,
I'm so glad to hear that you're somehow getting over him!I was a bit worried reading your previous post. I'm sure you're doing the right thing, whatever he's up to he's not worth your pain. Probably you're right, he's either straightening things out with his wife or replaced you with someone else. I don't know if you're still married or divorced but you have a family and I think this is important. So I wish you all the luck of the world, try to hold on and get rid of him once forever. Of course you had good times and, as you said, they will always stay with you. But now it seems that bad times have exceeded the good ones, so it's time to move on. Without regrets, he doesn't deserve you, you're too good for him.
As for me, I'm slowly recovering as well. If there were a pain chart from 100 to 0, I'd say I'm around 95. I still can't sleep if I don't get a text from him, we're still saying that we love each other but I haven't seen him anymore.As you pointed out, habits are hard to break, it takes time and it's still too early. A few hours ago I switched on my old mobile, and there were still his texts and reading all those passionate words made me cry, I admit that. I deleted them, I'm trying to delete all the things that hurt me. Or to prevent them from popping up into my mind.
Anyway please let us know how you're doing... it's not easy and you will go through bad times again. But little by little I'm sure we'll both be able to pull ourselves together.
A big hug
lillybit

It is nearly 3:30 here, the time in months past he would call or anxiously awaited me calling him (as it was in the beginning). I know it's going to hurt as the time passes and he doesn't call, but I know he won't. I'm trying, very hard, to repeat to myself, don't call him, leave it alone, it's done, he doesn't want to talk to me.

It hurts so much to know he doesn't want me anymore, but that is so obvious to me now the way he hasn't been calling even a quarter of the amount of the time he used to. He wouldn't have talked to me yesterday if I hadn't called to make sure he got my package. Yeah he said he loved the pictures and repeated many times he wants more, said that I'm "perfect", but he's a bullshitter. It hurts to know he doesn't love me, that he never did. I just don't understand why he strung me along like that. To think I told him about our daughter, he doesn't deserve to know about such a beautiful thing. I waited 17 years to tell him about her, waited for the right time which seemed to be now after all the wonderful things he said to me and how he wanted us to be toghther. It hurts to know he doesn't even care about that. How can someone be so miserable to another human being. I'm heart broken but I know it's going to be a bumpy path. I just have to keep reminding myself it's over, don't call, let it go. If only it were 5:00 then this hour would be done, this really hurts.

I'm trying!
Love you all!
Corinne

Good morning,
I'm sorry to hear your pain is still so great Lillybit, I have to admit if I had to scale my pain I'd say I'm at the same range. He hasn't called. There was a time he couldn't go 24 hours without talking to me, now if I hadn't called him Wednesday to make sure he got the package, it would be 5 days since he's called. I wasn't really prepared for how badly letting go of him would hurt, especially since it isn't me who let go. The unknown of where is he, who is he with, is he thinking of me, why has he let go, is what hurts the most. Over the last 10 months we said some of the most beautiful personal things to eachother, letting go was never even a consideration.

Anyway, I'm trying. I'm starting to realize he didn't really love me in the first place, he was using me to make himself feel good about himself and sexually. I got him off, I pumped up his ego, that's all he needed from me. Unfortunately I am totally, completely and passionately in love with him. I'm trying to figure out how to let that go.

I hope you can find comfort in that your MM loves you, you are a part of his heart. Remember the good times, the sweet times, the romantic times and perhaps they'll get you through. It sounds as though he is suffering just the same as you are.

I'll continue trying and fighting my demons that try to make me call him. The weekend is going to be very difficult, he always called me on the weekends, I'll have to try and keep busy.

I'm thinking of you Lillybit, do keep me posted on how things are going.

Much love!
Corinne

Hi..

What hurts as well for me is that I just can't talk to anyone about it even if I feel bad, they just wouldn't understand.

I tried to talk about this on another psychology forum before and I really got reactions like 'you bitch' or "people like that don't even deserve to exist, you can only be a horrible person if you do things like that" or "you are a whore" or the usual things that he plays with me and I'm having my eyes closed and I have to break of every form of contact immediately etc.

All those things hurt a lot, because I know I'm not like that.. I mean it's true that it's wrong, that it would hurt a lot of people and that's a lot in my mind, but I'm also just a person that wants to be loved even if I maybe didn't make the right choice. I myself wouldn't have thought either that this would have happened to me and certainly not since I never had a boyfriend before and I'm quite serious and silent and I hardly ever did anything else in my life besides studying and working... You just know what it is when you are in it, even if you think it would never happen to you.. I always thought that things in life come automatically, like for my parents (studies - married, even now still happily married and in love after 35 years - children - nice job) but it's not like that, sometimes unexpected things happen that you would never ever imagined and then you have to cope with it if you want or not...Anyway those comments hurt a lot,..

I just don't know what to do because he's my best friend, I tell him everything and I know I have feelings for him.. on one side I just want to admit to it because it feels right when I'm with him and I feel less alone, but on the other side I'm so confused because I feel guilty and I think he would never choose for me either and even if he did I would ruin a lot... But it's strong as well and I don't want to loose him. Does this all make me a bad and horrible person?
Does it make sence to you?

I don't know :(.

Take care...

dear Lillybit,

is as though i am reading my feeling in your words, i am in the same place as you. the insomnia, the pain and the mobile texts :-)
i will be finally taking that trip, with him on 5th, dont exactly know why i am doing so? but i am maybe the thought of one last time... make one last memory...

take care
dali

hey
don't be so hard on yourself, believe me i know how much you hurt but remember how young we are (i'm 28)we have our whole life ahead of us, think of where you will be in 5 or 10 years from now. they know they have us when they want or need us, hindsight is great, i never thought my mm would wind up back with his ex but after the divorce and us living together for a couple of years......you never know. just don't believe and fall for what they say, we had a bond so close that i thought no one else could ever have, he told me everyday how much he loved me, wanted me and wanted to spend the rest of our llives together, it was a learning experience, they sure can change our lives to fit theirs especially when they don't have anything else, or have nothing to lose, they are insecure and most of all manipulators. try to thinkk of his family and children, is it fair to them, he may not be in love with his wife but if he is cheating on his wife can he actually be an honest person, you don't want that. there are so many cliches but all i can say is what comes around goes around, get involved with friends, join a club, dance lessons places where you will meeet new people, you never know who is around the corner everytime you step out the door, rememeber where children are involved they will always be there. he actually told me that he wanted more children but then said no way i don't want to start over, i was ready live with not having children with the man i loved but i was just cheating myself from true happiness because i wanted children with my mm more than anything, i thought it would be something that was just between us bring us closer it didn't work out that way and i look back now and know i deserve to be with someone who doesn't have that baggage and wants to be with me and start fresh there is someone out there for you and you will find him maybe not today or tomorrow you just don't know when or where but it will happen it took me a long time to "recover" from my mm because i always thought we would be together and believed everything he said to me everything, in a way it pisses me off and all i can say is that it is not worth the emotions and time it is a hard lesson but well learned
take care and remember you COME first not him

My dear,
I would do the same!! Yesterday I was in Venice and I just thought how wonderful it would have been if he was with me. And he thought the same. So enjoy your trip and try not to think why you're doing that. And I do really hope you'll have a wonderful time.
Take care
lillybit

Hi Corinne!

Im so sorry I havent been on lately..things have just been really busy around here. Everythings going great (thankgod), I have no complaints. I will be on later to chat some more I just wanted to drop by and say hello and hopefully all is well with you and your M.M! Keep me posted<3
xoxoxo
Jamie

hello Dali,
I'm so glad to hear you are making the trip. It will be wonderful for you and him. Maybe it will be one last memory, or maybe something else. Either way it is a fantastic way to end one chapter and begin a new, whether it be together or not you will have peace. Either way you can come away knowing you both have a mutual love and respect for one another and fait will take it from there but the love will always be true.

Enjoy your trip, have a wonderful time, feel love and be loved. Let us know all about it when you return. You are definitely doing the right thing.

Much Love!
Corinne
XOXO

Hello Jamie,
I'm so glad to hear from you and to know things are going so great. I was really praying they were beautiful for you. I'm a horrible pessimest so I was worried, but I'm glad to hear things are going so well. How are things with the x? I hope she's calmed down and learned to accept her situation and move on.

My MM called me Friday night. You know he says things like "you know I love you" and "you know I think about you" "I'll call you when I can you know that". I'm so confused, exactly what is it he's expecting me to "know". I know he bitched me out just over 2 weeks ago basically telling me to go f**k myself and now I'm supposed to know he "loves me". He goes a whole week without a word (which destroyed me), he gets my pictures and has them for a week and says nothing until last Friday about them and yet I'm supposed to have "known" he loved them and "can't get enough of them". I just don't get it, I'm such a yo yo when it comes to him. So he calls Friday then not again until Sunday night and again says "you know I call you when I can". What I want to say to him is I don't know a thing and where the hell have you been? I KNOW I cry over him every day, I KNOW I'm nervous and uptight all the time. My face is breaking out for crying out loud from the stress. 40 years old and I've got pimples. I melt when I hear his voice and I'm so afraid to question him about anything for fear he'll tell me to go f**k myself again, I'm scared to be derogatory in any way, afraid it will make him snap. He told me Friday he thought about me all week but was busy, that "she" is nothing but their and that life together is a constant struggle. Sunday he tells me he wants to "make love to me in more ways then I can imagine" and asked me to mail him more pictures, letters. This morning he calls early to tell me not to mail anything, she'll be home this week. What the hell am I supposed to think about all of it, my head is spinning. It is constant, he reals me in and tosses me out over and over again.

Am I supposed to "know" he loves me after all the horrible things he's said to me? I feel so unstable or is it he who's the unstable one? I'm lost, confused, sad and unfortunately still in love with him. Oh, he also said he'd call me at lunch today, big surprise, he never did. I guess I was supposed to know that. (sorry that was a bit cynical but I can't help it, I feel so thrown around) Does he want me or doesn't he?

Again, I'm so happy for you, please do keep telling me all that is going on, I love to hear about you beautiful growing love.

Much love
Corinne

Do you know what it is like to be married and have your husband cheat on you?
You devote years to him and your children. You build a home and memories to hopefully cherish with your grandchildren. Then someone comes in and thinks they can have your man. They don't think of the wife left home with the children, wondering when your husband will be home from work. You all need to realize that with time all relationships get a little routine. But you still work hard at it, because you took a vow and your going to do your best. Then you have people, who for some reason think they can just walk into your life and take away the man you married. Do you realize the devastation that comes into play. All your hard work and some bimbo thinks she can save this man from his misery. Misery which is not what he has, but that is what he is saying. You leave woman struggling to pay bills and children wondering what they did wrong to make daddy leave. It is such a hardship on us wives who are the victims of someone elses selfishness and uncaring about someone elses feelings or lives. I wish you all the best with your new men, if you got them because guess what. You WILL be the ones left sitting home with kids and trying to pay the bills and wondering what happened. A cheater is always a cheater and when it comes around "The first wives club" always gets the last laugh.

Think about what your are doing and who you are hurting!!!

First of all you have no right to judge us, if your man cheated I am sure he had his reasons. It's takes 2 to tango.
Oh and I feel so bad about your "bills" all the MM who left their wives, kept paying for their kids.
We are not bimbos in fact most of us are very well educated and in high executive positions, if your man cheated on you...you should look in the mirror at yourself, we don't drag them into a situation. If they stray..my dear it's because of you.

you know you will get alot of shit for that, but you are right, i was the ow in a long relationship, we lived together for years, he was broke, couldn't pay all he was suppose to and that wore down our relationship too, i do feel bad for what i did to his wife but at the time i didn't think of her or their children, all i heard was how much he didn't love her anymore and that i was the "right" one for him, he even said he wished he was younger (my age) so that we would have met long ago, all bullshit, all relationships and marriages have problems but when a man goes and cheats he is running from himself not his family and they are bound to repeat it over and over, these ow will find out the hard way like i did, all i can say is let them waste their time, love and emotions because these mm will move on. i've learned (the hard and long way) they are all bad news no matter what they tell us or promise us. never again.

Hello Allison,
First I have to say I so look up to you for being able to confront your MM with questions of your future. I so need to do that but am terrified of what the response will be. Fact is I think I know what the response will be so I’m avoiding it. I also understand how you felt about him being “with” her, I think about that all the time if my MM is with her even though he says their relationship is sexless and loveless. “A struggle every day” he says. I’m afraid for him, that is a pack of lies.

Anyway, your MM said he loves you and is committed to a future with you and ending what he says is a loveless relationship with her. He has expressed his love for you and how you make him feel. These are beautiful expressions of his emotions and feelings for you. You’ve done all you can, the next move is his. It sounds as though his feelings are true, however sleeping with her so she doesn’t become suspicious concerns me just a little. If his intention is to leave her, why care at this point if she’s suspicious.

You need to continue moving ahead with plans you are making for the future and see how receptive he is to it. If he continues along with you making plans, and you can feel he is actively putting an end to their relationship then don’t pressure too much. Nothing ends nicely and leaving her will be difficult, like Jamie’s problem, she’ll put up a fight. You’ll need to be patient, understand, and listen when things get rough.

Please Allison, protect your heart. My realization is my MM is in love with her, not me, and that he only has me for satisfaction of his own ego when he needs it. I don’t want you to feel the same torment I’ve been feeling, the same hurt. He’s been up front with you, he obviously loves you and wants to be with you, patience is now what you have to have and during the difficult times, remember all the lovely times.

I hope this made sense, I’m not really in the position to give the best advise but I wanted to try and help. I’m glad you share a love with him and I’m hoping it will grow and flourish. Please do keep us posted.

Much love!
Corinne
xoxox

Obviously you’ve been hurt and for that I am sorry. I think you can see by the comments on this site, these women are NOT selfish uncaring bimbos, we are sensitive caring women who are at times being hurt as well. Yes, there is guilt being the other woman, some of us didn’t know we were the “other woman” until it was too late and our hearts were already in love. Others were told of misery and sorrow and only tried to initially lend a compassionate shoulder which turned to romance. Unfortunately no one can control who their heart falls in love with, and we have no control over being lied to by a manipulative man. Some of us do fall in love and that love is mutual ending another relationship, unfortunately hurting others.

Ultimately, none of us ever want to hurt anyone and most often become the ones being hurt. We are pursued manipulated victims as well, it is just hard for you to see it that way. There are always two sides to every story.

I’m sorry if you’ve been hurt. Please try to understand, we are hurting as well and that hurt is real and needs to be expressed. That is what the friends on this site are for, compassionate non judgmental understand for eachother. Everyone needs a friend, someone to lend a compassionate ear to them, and everyone wants to be loved. I love and admire all the women here and consider them my friends. I hope you can find peace and love in your future.

Corinne

mrs ex ow,

well first the whole, i have dedicated my life to the husband... etc is in itself not the right approach, if you do something for the other all the time, yes you will feel wronged. but if you are in the relationship because you love being there and doing what you do for the family, then you will not feel so bitter. i am divorced, and for reasons other than an ex, though he was having fun on the side. but i am not bitter about any of his women because i know there were other issues. we are human, and love is not always eternal, and in this short life it is necessary to be honest. at some point of time if the love has gone, admit it, and live with fresh hope that life and god has other plans for you. yes a lot of times men who have affairs are confused, they do not know what they want, and mistake what their real needs are, and have affairs, when they realise what their real need is, they leave the OW. so its the OW that suffers the loss, no fault of hers, she was convinced that they will have a life together...
but sometimes it really is love, and that is because the wife is no longer on the same wavelength as the husband, they are two different people who are living together out of habit, and not because they are complimenting each other... so then the man does not go back. and the wife suffers the loss.
now your husband, may be confused... but then its his problem not the woman, if not that woman, he would have found another... if not that he would have found a whore... but its not the OW you should be venting your anger at...
yes sometimes there may be a very aggressive woman, who will run after the man, for that, the man has to be a celebrity or very rich... otherwise its very rare.
i know it hurts and its better if you found something to be angry at, but please not here, we are the once where the wifes have an upper hand :-), so we are suffering... some of us have let go, and trying to move on with life.
but the truth that binds us is we all fell in love, love which is strong and deep. before i fell in love with my mm there were three men at different times who were good friends and tried to cross the boundries, i had not hesitated for a moment to put an end to the friendship, till the air cleared up. when me and my MM came together, i did not even see it coming, it just fell into place!!! and it was so beautiful.
so find your peace, take your husband to a councellor if he agrees, sort your issues out. and live life with positive energy, that will have the most positive impact on your children... they will for the rest of their lives love you and your strength.

wishing you well

dali

Hi Corinne

Thanks for the advice and I totally agree with you. It's really out of my hands right now as you say. It's funny you say to "protect your heart". I feel myself pulling away from him now, I thought with time, I know it's only been 2 weeks that the feeling would go away but honestly it has changed me, and the feelings I have for him. It wasn't bravery either that made me ask more like..I can't feel any worse so I might as well cut my losses and ask. I don't even know if what he said is true, or because he was afraid of me leaving him..he is always saying that and he repeated over and over that night.."your gonna leave me, your gonna leave me"..sometimes I think that's what he truly wants.

Last week when we spent the day together, that whole issue was brought up again and I said it still hurts me..this time I said imagine if the shoe was on the other foot wouldn't hurt you.

This week has been very hard for me, I am in my "run away" mode again like I do with all my past relationships. Just seems so easy for me to just vanish.
I am keeping busy with work and I am not going to be just "available" for him.
I think it's time he started to feel like I do, something slipping away.

I'll keep you posted if anything further happens.

I hope your holding up great, you sound clearer to me, I am here to support you so hang in there. Lots of love Allison.
XOXOXO

Hi Allison,
I'm glad I could be some sort of help, if only to be a shoulder to lean on or an ear to listen. I know how you are hurting, and letting go seems so impossible doesn't it? I don't know what it is about our MM that has such a strong hold on us but I do know trying to break away from it is so difficult and painful. I do want you to protect your heart! I unfortunately let myself fall so deeply into my MM's web that my pain level is almost unbearable at times. I still haven't heard from him, not since the early Monday call of "don't mail anything today and I'll call you at lunchtime". We'll 3 lunchtimes have gone by for him since then and not a word. He knows how him not calling me makes me crazy and how badly it hurts so I'm only left to assume he wants me to hurt, which in turn hurts more. Does that make sense? Anyway, I really don't want you to hurt that way.

It seems obvious your MM does truly love you, he just needs to find his way and decide which way that is. It my be towards you, in which case I'd be so happy for you, but if it isn't, I'm here for you and can understand how you are feeling. At this point, while you are waiting and being patient, try and remember the happy times and good feelings because the bad stuff seems to make waiting so much more hurtful, and unfortunately the bad stuff is so much easier to remember and harp on. I don't know why that is but it seems to be the way. So every time you have a bad thought or memory, think of a good one whether it be a moment, a comment, or a feeling, block out the bad until you have a clearer understanding of the direction you are going with your man.

I'm so hoping things go well for you, you are a beautiful person, inside and out! You deserve all the love and happiness in the world.

I'll continue holding on and trying to turn this hurt around. I have to let go of him, he's obvioulsy let go of me. One thing that keeps bothering me is how can he not care we have a daughter together. I should never have told him about her, but I just don't understand why he just doesn't care. 17 years I waited for the right time to tell him and he really made me feel like that time was finally now for us, I was so very wrong. I'm glad she doesn't know about him, I'll NEVER tell her. She adores the man she calls daddy, and he's been a wonderful daddy to her. She never has to know about this bastard I love for some reason that has hurt me so badly for so very long.

Anyway, I don't want to go on about me, I've been round that block to often lately. Be happy Allison, breath deeply when things seem to go badly or when your mind wonders into a bad place, sometimes that helps. Keep hanging in there! You know I love you!

Much love!
Corinne
XOXO

Hello ladies,
Somehow I hit submit on my first attempt at typing this and the message was blank, sorry about that.

Oh ladies, I'm having quite a low moment. Almost 4:30 here and day 3 of no word from my MM. I feel so sad, lonely and lost without him. You'll be glad to know I haven't rang his phone or called his work, nope, not even once. That in itself was a very hard task, being an old habit, but I've done it and I continue to fight my demons which are screaming CALL HIM.

I'm just so in love with this man. I've kept a kind of diary about him since about last August and I was shocked to see some of the painful sorrowful feelings he's given me. Honestly there wasn't really but a few happy thoughts in the entire diary. It made me wonder what I'm doing pining over this man who has hurt me so badly over the last 4 months or so, but I could also see in my words the deep sincere love I have for him. It was painful to read it, but therapeutic I suppose.

I pray, constantly, for this love to be removed from my heart, for this pain to ease. I'm waiting. I can't help but say I really wish he'd call. Stupid I know, but the honest truth. I know he's with her, they are likely having a beautiful "make up" romance and he just hasn't told me. I can almost see him stroking her face and hair telling her how much he's missed, how much he loves her and how he never wants to lose her again. God just thinking that makes me cry and see everything he told me before was nothing but a damn lie. I'm so heart broken.

Missing him is becoming to much to handle at the moment. Why did he fill me up with so many lies of wanting me, loving me, begging me to be with him as recently as this past Sunday and then just disappear. I'm lost and confused. What's wrong with me?

Thank you, I needed to vent.

Much Love,
Corinne
xoxoxo

You should be taking your trip in 4 more days Dali if you plans haven't changed, I'm so excited for you. I pray you have a wonderful, loving, romantic, and happy time.

I can't wait to hear all about it. Please enjoy.

Much love
Corinne
xoxo

Yes who the hell do you think you are? WE do not destroy marriages...technically its you two. Don't blame the OW because your marriaged failed. Communication is a key tool that YOU TWO both lacked!

Maybe if you were keeping your husband happy in the first place..(by not forgetting how to be a great wife) this wouldn't of happened to you. M.M don't leave there wives for something new in bed..they leave because they are miserable. Your husband did what he had to do because he was unhappy and wanted to meet someone that made him feel the way a MAN should feel. It doesnt mean that he abandoned his children, they will always be there, and he will always love them. That is such a copout!

Your trying to validate something that isn't there anymore. He obviously wasnt happy with you (hmmm I can see why) so maybe it's best you move on also! Time and time again the "first wives club" always refers to the OW as automatically ruining a "happy go lucky" marriage. BULLSHIT!

Do you think for a moment that all of us women wake up every morning and say: "Hmmm..I want a married man..who's my next victim??" C'mon..wake up and smell the coffee!

Hi Allison-

Your story is all to familiar to me! Remember last month when I said that day will come. Yours is coming trust me. Unfortunately there's going to be alot more discussions now about him leaving the wife. It seems that he loves so much and he doesnt want you out of his life. He's made it clear that he wants to leave and from what it sounds like you are content with that.

My M.M's X was the same frigging way. She drained his accounts, spent money like it grew on trees, and just treated him like piece of garbage. She was never sexual with him..who the hell in their right mind would want to stay with someone like that??

Once again it all comes back to being so comfortable in a disfunctional marriage. The children of course play a huge role in all of this. But one day your M.M is going to wake up and see that there is something so much nicer for him and that is YOU!

It may take a little while, but it will happen hun. Trust me! I dont know if your impatient like myself, I couldnt take it anymore. Are his children little? My M.M's children were young, not too young..regardless its always hard for a man to leave. What they dont seem to understand is they ARE NOT abandoning their children, there leaving their wife.

My M.M had his guilt episodes everyday. To be honest with you all, I dont even think his children care. The X always says that they do (because thats her only attack), but they call him everyday (I listen) and they are fine. He actually spends more time with them because of the separation, so all in all, its great.

Allison I wish you happiness and you will get through this confusing time. Remember, things happen for a reason ladies!!!

Love you lots,
xoxoxo
Jamie

Well put!

Jamie, I hope you can see my note from Monday to you.

I hope all is well!

Love ya!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hi Corinne-

Well I just read your letter to me and you know how I feel about your M.M. I dont like him...Im sorry! I dont like how he's hot one minute, cold the next. It's not fair to you, but I do understand that you love him. That's what makes it so difficult, because your looking back at the loving, caring man he once was and hoping that will suddenly change back.

Do you ever flip out on him? If you havent, you need to make him understand that you are not a doormat for his "bipolar" feelings. I wish more than anything (and everyone will agree w/me) that you could find the courage to move on from him. Do you two every see each other much? Im just lost when he tells you that one day you can call..and then if you do..he gets mad..etc.

I would just be honest with him and say "What the hell is going on?" He's not a mind-reader hun, so if you don't bring any of this to his attention he's never going to know.

Perfect analogy:
When you fake an orgasm with your partner constantly, and he thinks he's getting you off all the time.

...Forgive me with my bluntness..but it's sort of the same thing. :) A man is so dense when it comes to their feelings. If you pretend that everything is O.K, and he's doing the right thing, he's going to continue this path of abuse.

Maybe I'm way off, I just think you SERIOUSLY need to talk to him about how he makes you feel. Tell him what you tell us (in a sense/not everything of course)tell him that you miss the man he was and it bothers you to see him like this because you love him so much. Dont hide your feelings from him, what do you have to lose at this point? NOTHING.

Instead of just up and leaving him, I think you should talk with him..DO IT CORINNE AND YOU WILL FEEL THE WEIGHT LIFTED OFF YOUR SHOULDERS!!!

I love you hunny and your always in my thoughts, YOU ARE SUCH AN INCREDIBLE PERSON AND A FRIEND!

xoxoxo
Jamie

Maybe I was a bit abrasive, it just makes me upset how the wife always thinks its us, you know?? :)
Jamie

Hi Jamie,
God it's wonderful to hear from you. It does sound like in the fall you had a bumpy start, but after Christmas and the new year I'm so glad things are going so well! I'm so so happy for you! I am a horrible pessimist as well, but looking at your situation from my point of view, you are definitely on the road to a beautiful future. You know nothing ends nicely and I'm sure he was and maybe still is feeling the pressure of missing the kids, but in time that will all work out once their divorce proceedings are finalized. Hold on, keep being patient, and always keep the love and romance alive between the two of you. I believe he didn't tell you about the reconciliation because it truly wasn’t something he wanted, he was only tone about it because of missing the kids. Once all proceedings are done things will smooth out, including set times he’ll see the kids, which will ease his mind tremendously.

Please keep me/us posted on how things are going along. I think about you all the time and continuing praying for a happy loving future for you both.

Today, my mm called me. I was so very surprised, and not quite sure if I was happy about it. He of course told me how much he misses me and wants me. He says how miserable things are with her, that she’s always angry about something and watches him like a hawk. He talked about me living there and how wonderful it would be to be together. You know all those things make me melt. I tried so hard to be very platonic in the conversation but I did tell him I love him and have missed him. I told him he knows how difficult it is for me to go days not hearing from him, wondering what happened. He just says “I know, sorry, I thought about you too”. I just wanted to scream “THEN WHY NOT CALL ME, WHERE THE HELL WERE YOU”. Of course I didn’t say that, me and the path of least resistance you know. He said he had to go and he loves me and we said good night. So up goes the rollercoaster for the time being. Is it really I ride I can continue on or should continue on? My heart wants to but my head keeps saying get the hell out while you still can. I’m a confused mess.

Lets continue to keep in touch. I hope you are making some romantic plans for Valentine’s Day. I’d love to hear all about them.

Much love!
Corinne

Hey Jamie

Thanks for the response, he has a daughter who is almost 2 and a son who he adores is 5. So yes they are young, very young and he always tells me the same old if it wasn't for the kids thing he would of been gone along time ago..
He really doesn't have a relationship with the girl because she is too young but as she grows and changes daily I am sure that will change.

I really don't think I stand a chance, all the odds are stacked up against me it seems. I know he loves me, but I just can't see him leaving her, as tough as he protrays himself and "in the moment" he thinks he can, but then he goes home night after night and lives the normal daddy life.

It might be this week because we have spent zero time together and I feel myself disconnecting. Trying not to feel, you describe this and it seems I am following exactly in your footsteps..weird isn't it..

NOW...how are things with you ? Is he more confirmed with you, I didn't like the sound of your last email...

I entirely agree with Jamie.
You should blame yourself in the first place. If something went wrong in your marriage it's not the OW to blame. Something was wrong before he met her, be sure of that. Of course I'm sorry if you're going through a bad time. But believe me the other woman is not stealing your husband. Because he was already gone and probably for a long time.
I don't have a great experience with MM, I avoid them whenever possible, I know many of them who are just out there looking for some adventures to spice up their lives and I really despise them. But some of them are really unhappy. Take my MM for instance, he doesn't have a sexual life with his wife, she stopped having sex with him soon after their son was born. She admitted that she didn't like to have sex with him anymore. So what was he supposed to do? And you know what, even if he's not really happy with her because aside from sex they live on two different planets, apparently they have nothing in common apart their daily routine, well he will never ever leave her. Yes she's like a sister but they a have a son and a commitment. And they come first. So there you go, as you can see it's not that the only purpose of our live is to chase other women's husbands and if you had bothered to read the posts here, you would have seen yourself how unhappy we are. Most of us end up alone and broken hearted and you know why? Because the MM crushed by guilt or divorce costs go back to his wife. So before patronizing us with all that you-must-feel-guilty stuff, try to understand where you both failed. If you do have a husband, well it's your business to keep him happy. Of course this is true for women also. Because women do the same, if they're not happy with their lives and men, they try to find what's missing elsewhere. Women are tougher. And there is nothing wrong with that, we all need to feel loved, desired and appreciated.
And one more thing, I don't think that a man who cheats on his wife will always be cheating. Because, as I said above, some are natural-born cheaters but they are quite easy to unmask, but others are really trying to give a sense to their lives. So it's up to you, you can either try to win him back or move on. In the first case, make sure to fill the gaps otherwise he will cheat on you again. And nobody could blame him.

For the other ladies here, I hope you are all ok. I'm still living in a sort of limbo, we are together without being together. We don't want to let each other go but we are afraid to meet.
I'm afraid we have reached the point where we can either reconcile or drift apart. He said I'm the one who has to make a decision, we are both torn. A part of us wants to go back together and a part of us wants to leave things as they are.
What do you say?
Love to you all
lillybit

Hi Lilybit

I know it sounds cliche but if he loves you he has to committ to a life with you sooner or later, I mean if my MM flat out said that there is NO hope for us I would of ended it. Sure it hasn't happened yet, and believe me even though I haven't put a time limit, something gotta to give.

If it makes you happy and complete to get back together,do it, he needs to work towards having a life with you. Like Jamie said, sooner or later they wake up and smell the coffee, sometimes you need to bring the cup to their attention.

If he is worth it, don't give up. This is your life too, do what makes you happy. If there are more happy moments than sad, maybe that's a sign.

Hang in there and keep us posted.

Hi Corinne & Jamie...

Oh my goodness Jamie you are so right, men are totally dense when it comes to their feelings for instance this week it happened to me..have you ladies ever seen that movie "The Breakup" with Jennifer Anniston...if not, she breaks up with him, in order to get him back, which backfires because in the end he just needed to hear what she felt, then realized he loved her, she was spent and left anyways.

Well Ladies, I am proof that Jamie's theory is true. All week I have been upset that me & my MM have had zero time together, and I even purposely got busy to make him miss me. I felt like crap through the whole thing.

The first thing this morning, he came to see me and asked what's wrong, and why have I been so distant. He thinks I was the one...meanwhile I thought he had no time for me. He was worried that the fact I was distant was because of us and that he couldn't understand why I can't communicate how I feel.

Tell him how you feel...it will make you feel better..

Hi Corinne,

I just have time to read a few postings and write a few quick ones in reply. I'm not totally caught up on everyone's messages, but as I was reading this one about why your MM keeps stringing you along, well, the word that jumps out at me is EGO. Your MM has a tiny tiny ego (this is at least part of the problem). I mean you feed his self esteem, all of the attention you spend on him, the attention you could be spending more profitably for yourself and your own advancement, well, it just inflates his ego...makes him feel attractive, appealing and so powerful that he can reduce a lovely woman like you to utter and complete dependency. The other problem with your MM is a weak character. If he had a good character, there's no way he'd be doing what he's doing with you. Anyway, I'm not saying these things as criticisms, just observations, for whatever they're worth. I know as well as you do that it's all fine and good that we can see and observe what kinds of problems we're dealing with, but it's a whole different story when we try to deal with the problems and set things right. It's so hard, but here we are and I guess it's what we're all facing together. I often think good and hopeful thoughts for you, wishing you well as I'm seeing the sights around here and filling my life, as much as possible, with distractions (healthier activities than sitting around thinking about my MM's next move). Every day is a battle, some days will inevitably go better than others, but I'm really proud of us all .
xoxo, stn

Hi Ladies,
I just wanted to write a quick note. I need to get some thoughts out of my head, otherwise they just keep running around and around my head until I feel sick and dizzy. I'm looking at my situation from outside my situation these days and what I see hurts me. I see a woman who can't find a man she loves, I see a man who will try to get that woman's attention and sustain it at any cost to the woman, because he needs the attention and affection of women to feel like a man, and he needs to feel powerful at the woman's expense, he needs to be able to take without giving in order to feel things are 'on the right foot'. I see a man who thinks he loves this woman and the woman think she loves the man. I'm not talking about Corinne, I'm talking about myself and my own situation...but I could be talking about a lot of us. At the end of the day, I find myself wondering if this is love. How can something like that be love? But so many women and so many men fit this pattern. Even couples in 'successful' marriages follow this pattern, I see it everywhere. The women see so much more than the men, they understand the dynamics of the relationships they're in, they see what needs to be done to make things work and the men control everything and ignore all of the womens' insights and attempts at communication. I want to know if there's something better that we can hope for in life than this? Is this all there is?
xoxo, stn

Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to write one more quick note. I'm having a rough day and just wanted someone to talk to. What's bothering me is how my mind is failing me when it comes to this matter of my heart. I know what I need to do, I need to let go completely and without reservation, and yet part of me is still hooked on trying to maintain my attachment. I want to get rid of my attachment, I know in my head that I should and yet today I found myself shaking all over after writing the last message I posted here. Just the thought of this subject, my situation with my MM, has left me feeling scared to death and I'm not ever sure of what...it seems like some kind of irrational fear, it's vague...I guess it's just me getting used to the idea that he's really not going to be a big part of my life they way I'd like...or maybe it's me getting used to not having any positive reassurances from him on a regular basis. I came to need them desperately somehow. I've been okay and even good while I've been away from him, but something happened today and I'm not even sure where it came from. It felt like a kick in my stomach and I've been shaky every since. My happiness that was saving me yesterday evaporated this morning. That dark, empty, cold feeling I have when I'm missing my MM has come back and it's taken over. I smile, I talk, I go through the motions and interactions of my day as if nothing's bothering me, but I feel that I have no heart for anything anymore. I just have the feeling in the pit of my stomach that I'm hurt, I'm lonely and I'm scared...and I'm lost. It must be PMS time.... My heart is still broken and I don't have the energy to pick myself up today. I'm sad.
love, stn

Hi Again,
I guess I'm going a little nuts. I'm trying to decide whether or not I should contact my MM for a 'fix' ... just to feel better for a little while. I've been strong and have gone a long time without one, since December actually. Yesterday I took a boat trip down the river here and realized that I can do all kinds of wonderful things to make my life nicer, but in the end, there's going to be a really big void in it if I don't maintain some kind of contact with him. I think this is bad for me on one level. I should learn to live without him completely, and just stay friends on a fairly casual basis, without needs or attachments or dependency involved. But I also don't want to spend my days feeling sick in my heart because I'm avoiding him. Hmphf.
I'm not sure which way to go on this one.
I had a dream about him the other night. I dreamt that he was fat, ugly and super old, and the whole time (during the dream), I kept getting mad at myself wondering why I still loved him. I don't know why I love a man who offers me less than nothing. I don't know why I love a man who takes so much more than he gives, and worse, doesn't even value what I give to our 'relationship'. I mean, I've overlooked so very many of his mistakes, so many unforgivable acts he's committed, I've let them go and he has no idea what it's taken for me to be able to do this. Of course I haven't forgotten all of what he's done, that stuff plays over and over in my mind like a broken record, but I've made it clear to myself and to him that all of his horrible behavior towards me isn't something I am holding him accountable for, I'm just trying to take it at face value, I'm trying to make myself use the information to judge my situation better and figure out how to handle it, but I don't want him to 'pay' for the mistakes he's made. I think the problem here is that I was hoping he'd see how deeply he's hurt me, how much he's forced me into a very bad position (I know I had a hand in it too, don't get me wrong), and I was hoping he'd be able to see that I overcame so much anger in order to be able to maintain our friendship at least. But he doesn't see these things, he just keeps wanting to be able to behave however he pleases and he wants me to keep accepting it. Since he doesn't get anything (of course he thinks he's got all the answers, macho jerk that he can be), I don't want this situation for myself and now I feel like I have to choose: I have to decide to keep things going as they are, without him understanding much of how he's contributed and keeps contributing to my pain or I have to let go of even more than I set out to let go of. I'll have to let it all go if I don't want him to keep having this power over me. Maybe only then will the time be right for us to get along better, interact in a healthier way. Maybe this is what I've been inching myself towards all along. My head's in a fog right now, I can't see clearly. I look back on my old messages on here and I like the person I was when I wrote them. Right now I feel weak and confused, I hope the feeling will pass. I guess it has to, it always does. Writing here helps me sort the thoughts out. I'm not sure why I've slipped into this funk, it really took my by surprise. I know it's all in my head, the only thing that matters these days is what I think since I don't have to see him now. But my thoughts and feelings are in conflict with each other. Everything's been jumbled and I don't know if I'm coming or going. The weather is pretty cold here, I met a man on the metro last night who told me his life's story. Maybe this is what set me off. The tale he told didn't give me much hope or faith in life, it left me thinking and feeling that we all just struggle in the end. All of our struggles are different, and they may not be visible to anyone but ourselves, but that's what it seems to boil down to. We all get a few moments of joy in life and then for every moment of joy, we get 80 hours of struggling. Please tell me there's something better to hope for than that.
Love, STN

Hello ladies,
I’m sorry, I’m having a lost moment/hour/day. It has been since Thursday that I’ve spoken to my MM. It is so unusual not to speak at least on a weekend, in fact in 10 months there have only been 2 weekends we didn’t speak, Christmas and New Years. Now we’ve only spoken 11 out of the last 30 days. When I spoke with him then he’d asked why I stopped calling the house from work, he said he checks the phone as soon as he gets home and is surprised when he doesn’t see my “out of area”. So, I made the mistake of trying to make him happy by calling on Friday. He answered quickly and said “she’s home but not right now” “I have 2 seconds”. I said how are you, he said “I’ll call you later”. I said love you, he said “Bye”. Yeah, you guessed it, I crumbled, and as usual, “later” never came. 5 of our usual times to talk today have passed with only one left and I haven’t heard from him. My mind is wrecked, my heart is broken. I’m always terrified that the last time I spoke to him is the last.

Thursday’s conversation was beautiful, full of how much he feels for me, wants me, needs me. Was that my last conversation with him or will he call again. I’m terrified the answer is no.

I’m sorry I seem to have lost my grip on sanity today, perhaps it is the up and down he puts me through, my heart just can’t take it anymore. I love him ladies, how can I stop that and end this pain.

I love you all!
Much love!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hi ladies,
it seems we're all going through a very confused phase these days. All our resolutions seem a bit shaky. We're torn in two, a part of us, the rational and healthy one, keeps telling us that for our own good we have to get rid of these pointless relationships and engage ourselves in more constructive things, whereas our emotional part is still sticking to our MM and refuses to let him go. I'm sure we're all aware that in a way or another these men are quite selfish.
STN, from what I gather from your previous posts, the man you love is not only married but he has been seeing other women as well. You describe him as a very successful and attractive man. I think men like him are too self-centered and often unable to return the love they are given. But being rejected by a brilliant woman like you is something he can't accept, especially if the decision wasn't up to him.
The same is partly true for Corinne as well. It seems that your man is playing games with you, he's the cat and you're the mouse and he turns you around as he pleases, one day he makes you feel in heaven and the next he crushes you. I have a question though: how did he react when you told him of your daughter? Did he panic? Has he changed since then? Wow, I really think you're great and I think of the burden you've carried all alone for all these years. You must have gone through very hard times.
As for my MM, he's a nice guy, but I'm here just to fill his gaps. And to provide him a full and satisfactory life. For the past 18 months he had his cake and ate it too.
STN and Corinne do you think you will ever have a chance to live with the MM you love? And if you were given this chance, would you do that? I'm not sure I would. Not because I don't love him, but I'm also aware of the emotional baggage he would carry with him and I'm pretty sure he would be crushed by guilt, hence back to his wife in a matter of days if not hours.
I haven't seen him for a month but we're going to meet on Friday. Why do I do that? Because I need to understand what my feelings are. I need to know if I still love him or if things have cooled down. As I said, I'm torn in two, part of me still wants him but the other one is angry at him (and at myself)and I need to find out which is the prevailing part.
I understand both of you when you say that you miss him and I admire the effort you're both doing to try not to call him or meet him. I'm feeling very weak and stupid, I mean why don't I give him up once forever? I'm confident that seeing him will help me to make up my mind and to see things in a clear way. At least this is what I keep telling myself.
Lots of love to both of you
Lillybit

Hello Lillybit,
Thank you, as always, for your words of encouragement. You know, you are right, keeping the secret of our daugher for all this years has been a terrible burden and has drained me. I always hoped and prayed there would be a day I could tell him, a time when we'd be together. It seemed over the years there was always something going on that prevented me from telling him. I wish I hadn't told him now. He made me believe he had true and strong feeling of love and devotion for me. He lied. When I told him, he didn't panic, he said things like he'd like to give her a big hug, send her holiday cards, asked if she was beautiful (she's an angle). He said he missed out on alot and that it made him feel closer to me. That was the day I told him, since then he mentioned her once or twice, NEVER askes anything about her like who she is or what she's like. He's said he'd like to give me another one some time soon. Little things like that, but not often.

Today I realized that for the last month he's been slowly doing things to push me away. Telling me he's been busy, been with his kids, she's home, people are visiting, working overtime and so on. All reason's to either not have been able to call me or to insure I don't call him. I'm completely blocked out from contacting him and can only sit around waiting for his next call. If it's over, which it seems it is, he should just end it then. Say it and get it over with. I'll be wounded for sure, which I know you understand, but then at least I'll be able to move on. I think he's afraid of that, I think he's truly afraid I'll pull some sort of fatal attraction thing on him or something. I don't think he cares at all about MY daughter, and maybe that is my fault for not telling him all these years, but at this point I don't want her to know or care about him either. He's too unstable with what he wants. Just a couple years from 50 and he's so immature, and a huge manipulater. Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that I love him with my whole heart and soul. Would I go to him at this point to live with him.....I don't know, he's hurt me so much over the past few weeks that I'm almost afraid of him. Afraid I won't be his next wife or whatever, but I'll be his next broken heart (which I already am).

I'm glad you can see your MM, and have a wonderful time. The two of you share a beautiful love, cherish what happiness you have shared, that will enable you to move on. The hardest thing for me is knowing he's rejected me, that I wasn't good enough for him (twice damn it), that this MUCH younger woman won. That makes me pathetic. You are loved, cherished, and out of reach for your MM because of his obligations. That must be as equally painful for him as it is you. You are a beautiful deserving woman, you deserve someone who can not only love you with their whole heart but can also commit to a life with you. You'll find that person. Maybe, somehow, someday, that person will be your MM. You never know what fait will bring your way.

I do love you Lillybit, for all your kind words of support and friendship. Thank you for being there and giving me a kind friend and ear (or eyes in this case) to turn to. Finally after all these years I have a friend(s) to turn to in this situation.

Please do continue to write.
Much Love
Corinne
xoxo

Hi STN

Doesn't it always happen thought the slightest word, someone else's happiness can easily set you off. I know..I am going through it. It seems all my friends are moving forward in a positive light, they are all married, some with newborns and some pregnant. Then there's me, living in limbo. The only thing I can say I am so happy about is my career, that fills my day when my love life is falling apart. Which it is and it has.

The more and more I read these posts the more I realize my MM is the same as all MM. I am just a piece of a puzzle when he chooses to "fit me in". I am not the type to take it, you see I am too tough.

STN, my best advice to you take it day by day, feel shitty, feel happy but do it on your terms and see how you are daily. I think too often we think about yesterday analyze the hell out of it. We need to focus on the day and move on.
That will help make your head clearer, it has mine.
Stop looking back and stop looking forward..look now.

Hello ladies!
I'm still holding on. I didn't cry on the way to work today but I have to admit over the last few days I've done ALOT of crying. Hell, over the last month I've done alot of crying over this MM of mine. No, he hasn't called again. Many of our usual times to talk have passed, times I know he's alone and am so tempted to call him, but I haven't. I'm trying to remind myself there would be no purpose to that and would only cause me much pain in the end. I also try to remind myself of all the sacrifices I've made for this man and realize that he's done nothing for me. Well, he sent me some "sexy & erotic" things once, but that was it. I've been the one with the phone expense, travel expenses, and biggest risks to make time to talk, I've been the one available for his every becon call, I'm the pathetic one it seems.

So for the past day I've tried to convince myself that it's over. He won't call again (for whatever reason) and I should try not to take that too personally. I was only an enabler to him, he never loved me he only used me and needed me to satisfy his sick little fantasies and perversion, to make him feel good about himself. Realizing all this is like slapping myself in the face, and it hurts. The good thing is, it's also making me angry, so angry at him for turning me into this weak little thing.

It's a difficult process and a definite war between my heart and my head. Day by day is all I can do and I will hopefully begin to recover from all the pain this man has caused me. Unfortunately what we want and what is to be aren't always the same thing, so we keep going......right?

I love you ladies and hope all is well with you. Allison, Lillybit, STN, keep pulling along with me, we can do it TOGETHER. Dali, I hope your trip is going wonderfully, do let us know all about it. DanielleJordan, I miss you and hope things are going well for you. Jamie, you must be having a wonderful time with your man these days, yes YOUR man. I can't wait to hear from you.

Love you ladies!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Well, it is obvious that I'm on here way too much my posts are so frequent. It is just that every hour that goes by that I usually talked to my MM and not a word from him I begin to feel weak, my knees shake and I feel sick. I keep hearing things he's said, both good and bad. The good things are certainly not as frequent as the bad but they are still there, burning a hole in my heart and in my thoughts. Why did he ever utter "I'm so in love with you", why play with my mind like that. I know, his ego, why is that so hard to accept. Why do I feel so desperate to believe he actually did/does love me.

The feeling of rejections is overwhelming. Why wasn't I good enough...again! Maybe it's my fault because I wasn't willing to run right too him while his marriage was in turmoil. Was that a mistake? Should I have put myself right in the middle of the two of them when she moved out "temporarily"? Was I wrong in assuming that it would only wind me up in the street when she returned. I don't know. I'm torturing myself at the moment, I'm sorry. The what if's and the why's are killing me.

I'm just a little lost at the moment and feeling a bit broken.

Much Love
Corinne
xoxoxo

Corinne,
please stop thinking it is/was your fault. What were you supposed to do? Leave everything and run to him just to help him through his bad time? I think you did the right thing. Do not torment yourself, you don't deserve it and he doesn't deserve it. And in any case I'm reasonably sure that he would have dumped you once she had returned. And if she hadn't returned, he would have looked for her... or for someone else.
I know that the good times are difficult to forget, they always pop up into our mind and make us forget the bad times. We should try to do the opposite, we should try to focus on the bad things and try to remember all the humiliations we had to swallow, the unpleasant things and feelings we had to go through.
This MM of yours is probably making up things with his wife and he doesn't need you now. And he doesn't even bother to be honest with you, why should he? He knows that you are there available any time he comes whining to you. I know I shouldn't say that, but this man not only doesn't love you (and I think that he's so selfish that he loves nobody but himself) but he doesn't even respect you. This should make you think, how can you respect a man like him? You told him you had a daughter from him and this left him almost indifferent. He didn't show any interest. How can you love a man like him?
I know that probably these are not the words you wanted to hear, but you are going through too much pain and this is unfair. It's time to open up your eyes and see who is the man you're in love with. I'm sure you already know that but you're hiding the truth to yourself in the name of good old times. But apparently the good times are gone forever and the sooner you accept that the better.
Allison said that the best thing to do is to stick to the present and she's right. The past is past and the future... well the future is unpredictable.
I hope I didn't hurt you but I'm so sorry to see you in such a pain and for a man who's completely worthless. I do really hope you'll get over him very soon.
As far as I'm concerned, today is the day, I'll be meeting him later this afternoon. It goes without saying that we're both very nervous.
I don't know if I did the right thing, but as I already said in my last post, I need to find out what my feelings are. Mixed feelings.. love and hate. I love him but the thought of going back to be the second best, coming after everything horrifies me. And I know that he will never leave his family for me. So I'm torn apart. The rational part of me is screaming to stay clear of him.
I'll let you know what happened.
In the meantime, you all take care.
A special hug to Corinne.
Love to you all
Lillybit

Hello my friend,
First let me tell me you, you weren't too harsh and you didn't hurt me. You didn't say anything I haven't already known or felt, it is just accepting it all that I seem to have a problem with. Believe me, I appreciate every word you say and am so grateful for the encouragement. I'm really trying to move forward.

I know this man doesn't love me and slowly that is starting to sink in. He called my cell phone from work and you'll be happy to know I missed the call. I'm sure if I was near my phone my heart would have taken over and I would answered but I'd stepped away. His message was he's sorry he hasn't been able to call, he made an excuse as usual sounding quite sincere, and said he'd call later "Love you, bye". Like usual, it's later, infact it's the next day, and he hasn't called, but that's besides the point. He mentioned briefly a problem shes been having and maybe he was trying to make it sound like he didn't care but I could tell he was bothered by it and worried. He's been taking care of her. He loves her, she's back and things are fine I'm sure. He just hasn't told me like you said, so I'm available any time he needs an ego boost. He is very indifferent about our daughter. If it's he doesn't care or he's hurt because he doesn't know her I don't know. I think I expected him to want to know everything, want pictures and so on. I expected too much of this man who I now know has done nothing but lie to me to get what HE wanted. I just wish when he left messages he didn't sound so sincere. I wonder how he felt not being able to get me. I hope he suffered a little.

So I'm still trying to move on. Yes it hurts and is a slow agonizing process, but you are right, I don't deserve this pain. I still love him, that I will have to live with, but I know he doesn't deserve my love.

As for you, good luck today. I hope you find and realize your hearts desire. There is a very fine line between love and hate, I'm sure you'll both find your way. I understand what you mean about not wanting to be second best and not wanting to be that person. Listen to your rational part and proceed today with caution, if anything use it for closure or the end of a chapter. Protect you heart like I told Allison, but do go today to realize your destiny. My thoughts are with you supporting whatever it is you do. I'll be right here for you.

My love to you and my love to all!
Corinne
xoxo

hello sisters and my friends,

just got back from Egypt. Egypt was breathtaking, it is a have to visit place... 2000 years before Christ, and look at what the built... we are in 2000+ now after Christ :-). its a whole different world.
with my MM, did anything change? so much yet nothing. i had caught the flu bug, before going, and was running fever, but still decided to go... by the end of the trip i was fine and he was bad.
first, when we met, he stuck to no phusical imtimacy, i was surprised and hurt, i have not seen him for two months and not a kiss. so i was angry, he could have made it clear. anyway i cooled off the next day, and decided i will not stay angry, and enjoy egypt, its a place i have always wanted to see.
and when night came i just went to sleep... no intimacy :-), and i was fine with that. ( it surprised me :-)), i awoke to being made love too... and we made love, to which my MM says started in our asleep state... Now i would like to know how many have experienced this. making love in your sleep, and not really recalling it clearly... (no we were not drunk at all). i was awake midway, but too aroused to stop! this has never before happended to me.
so we got back to where we were. and we cried again when we had to say good bye, he gave me a preety valentine gift, a charm with lots of hearts on it :-). kind of cliche, but sweet.
all this was great, but i have decided to give life a chance... i will start dating again, and i am going to tell him this, lets see how things change. because any time we talked about it he says he will still want to see me even if i was with someone else...
but this is not for him, this is for me... i want to at least try, to believe in love again. and i hope and pray the same for all of you here.

Corinne, STN, lillybit, Allison... do tell me what you think... is he trying to play me here? because he thinks he is losing control?

STN, the lows will come, and go, remember what you told me... ride it out... it will get better, keep writing.

love

dali

will it work this time?

Hi y'all,

This song is really beautiful IMO. Maybe you'll find it of comfort if you're having relationship woes. For some reason I can't post the URL here, but if you go to

youtube.com --> "Aimee Mann" & "Amateur" it comes up together with a lovely black and white video. (I'm not connected to Aimee financially or in any other way, in case you were wondering).

Hi my friends,
Dali, I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed your trip, regardless of the flu bug and the initial lack of intimacy.
It would have been difficult not to go back where you were, you slept in the same bed and were together all the time. I think it was predictable and very likely to happen. Obviously, after two months you were both defensive and didn't know what to expect from each other. Apparently you've come to terms with yourself and even if you still love him you feel that the right thing for you to do is to move on, I think that you've made the right decision, this is the best thing you can do for yourself. Go on with your life, date someone else and see what happens. You don't need to tell that to your MM though. Otherwise it would sound like a blackmail and I'm sure this is not what you mean. As you said, you want to give love another chance. And I hope you'll soon find someone just for you, someone who wants to live with you and be there for you. You deserve that. I think we all do.
Corinne, thank you for your support, it's nice to know that there is someone out there who's on your side, whatever you do. You're really a good friend and I want you to know that I feel the same for you.
Unfortunately you're going through such a bad time, but you're doing a great job. Feeling rejected is devastating and in your case more than ever, because his rejection includes your daughter too. Don't give up. Accepting that he probably doesn't love you or at least doesn't love you as much as you do love him is the first step, maybe the most painful. It's a long and enduring procedure but in the end I'm sure you will overcome all that. Just give it time and take all the time you need. And whenever you feel down, remember that you have friends here ready to listen to you and to help you.
A couple of days ago, after a month, I met my MM. In the beginning we were both very very defensive, but as soon as I saw him I felt myself melting down. I wanted to kiss him straight away. Well, we kissed each other on the lips but he was a bit distant, he didn't know what to expect from me. We walked for a while and he seemed to relax a bit... well to cut it short, by the end of the evening we were back to where we were a month ago.
I'm not sure what will happen next. For the first time, I listened to him and tried to understand what he's going through and he's really having a tough time. I've realized that I have my share of fault, I've always refused to listen to him and forbid him to mention his family while he was with me. So he had to carry his burden alone. I was selfish and centered on my problems, I had a very bad year but if you love someone you have to give up a part of yourself. I didn't do that.
Now I don't know what to expect. But whatever will happen, I feel stronger and less vulnerable. I don't know if we will go on seeing each other or not.
We missed each other loads but we're both afraid to get on that roller-coaster again. Probably we should negotiate other terms and conditions. I'll let you know.
Thank you for listening, hope to read from you very soon.
Take care my friends and much love to you all
lillybit

remember it's not the deal you got, it's the deal you think you got

How is everyone doing ? I am going to give you an update of my situation..NEED ADVICE...but first I want to say:

Dali: No playing games, I don't think so. I think your bond is so strong that is was another moment of love you shared, what I find strange is that you seem so strong about what happened and your ready to move on? From all your feelings I don't think your being honest with yourself and what happened. I think your avoiding feeling hurt maybe you think, this was the last time ? Tell me how you felt during the love making..

Lilybit: I totally understand where your coming from, I never want to know the family stuff either, I always figured that if he wants to mention it he will, I am starting to now realize that as much as avoidence of that is happening it isn't neccessary because he is still living there and that is apart of his life, so whether I like it or not, I have to accept it. Maybe it will help you guys grow stronger by being that listener he needs.

Corrine & STN: Hang in there girls I know it's gonna take everything in your power to ignore the phone this wednesday, keep busy..

Jamie: Where the heck are you girl ?

OK I am gonna start a new window with my update...so Girls read it and tell me what you think.

Hello Ladies,
Sorry I haven't written in a while. I've been really busy with work. All is well. It's funny though because I've been feeling down too. Loving, leaving, or anything involving a MM is painful and it leaves a profound pain in your heart. You give so much to them and get so little in return. That's the Pain of Being the Other Woman. Truthfully, when people talk about the wife, I never think about her. His wife never knew he was having an affair. He lied to protect her feelings and his way of life. She's never suffered the way I have so I've never felt sorry for her just as I don't expect her to ever feel sorry for me. Even though I didn't want to hear it, I would let my MM talk about his family. He seemed to have all these things he wanted to get off his chest, so I let him talk. But sometimes, it hurt to listen and I would tell him I didn't want to hear anymore. Like I'm just dying to hear about his day to day life and woes with his family. NOT!! Anyway, most of the MM in our lives love us, but it's on their terms. And once again, that's the Pain of Being the Other Woman. Thank goodness we've got each other because we'd all be nut jobs by now. :)

Love you ladies
daniellejordan

STN,
Do you have an email address? I want to send you something. I thought about creating a yahoo (or some other free email) account just for emails to and from the ladies on this site... So we'd have another way to keep in touch. Maybe we could all do that.

daniellejordan

Hi Ladies, I thought I'd take the chance to write while I can. Would you believe that my MM called? I can't believe it. Anyway, I realized that he's often given me the third degree about who I'm spending time with, etc etc and acting all jealous. Today I realized that at least half of the times he's done this it's to detract my attention from what HE'S been up to. He does it when he's feeling guilty.
Today I don't know if he loves me or ever did. It's just one of those days. He doesn't say the right things too often, but then he surprises me and does a bunch of things that let me know he really cares in his own limited, selfish and often naive way.
I love him, but I want to move on. I want another man to move on to...one who can care for me, one who can share his life with me and be there for me when I'm in trouble...but this man isn't anywhere to be found. So in the meantime I'm in a limbo between this seriously flawed emotional affair with my MM and feeling totally and completely alone. I know on good days I can actually pull myself together and feel strong and good about myself, but it's not one of those days today. I know, I need to hang on and wait for my mood to change. It's true enough. I think I just felt like indulging in some complaining to women who have similarly bad options. Misery loves company. I'm going to see if I can stop feeling sorry for myself tomorrow, and I hope I didn't bring anyone down who wasn't already down. Sorry for behaving this way. Something set me off a little earlier in the evening and I'm still a bit upset by it. A friend of mine sent me a note on email that asks a bunch of questions like what's your favorit food, middle name etc and then you send it back. Whatever. One of the questions was 'Do you ever wish on stars?" and I realized that I had wished on them my whole life, the same wish over and over (I wished that I could love someone with my whole heart who loved me back) and then I realized that when my wish finally came true it almost killed me. I'm angry about life. I know, if I want more out of life than it can offer I'm bound to be disappointed. And I'm feeling pretty disappointed at the moment. And I'm jealous of all the people in the world who have good relationships. I feel ugly when I get in these moods, I mean I feel ugly inside and it doesn't help. Damn it.
xoxo, stn

dear Corinne,

where do you find all this love within you? i mean dont you get angry, and want to just get away from this hurt?
i find that a very strong quality in you, but i wish and pray this love finds a worthy place...
here i am trying to hurt less loving this man, who loves me and who does all he can to be with me... but i still push him away because he wont take the big step. i know he will never be with me. the times we have are the most beautiful i have ever had... and i keep asking myself why cant i be happy with just what i have?

how have you been ?

take care
dali

Hey Danielle!
I like your idea of keeping in touch via email, it seems less vulnerable to write some things off the webpage. I made an account at yahoo, it was easy. Just write to me at

stillstuck@yahoo.com

and just drop me a note here on this webpage to let me know if you wrote something (so I'll remember to check it...since it's not my normal account i might not remember to look in on it at until I get used to using it. My brain is scattered like that these days.).

Btw, tonight I found out my MM is in touch with lots of women on line, old friends he says. And he never reads his email, but still, it pissed me off. Then, of course, he was mr. charming and did all kinds of sweet things. Oh well, I guess I love him for a reason, but I wish for better treatment for myself and all of us here and even the women our MM are married to. Maybe that's just a pipe-dream, I mean that guys might find it in themselves to have some decency about these issues. Okay, I"m rambling, so I better get off to bed.
As for you Corinne, BE CAREFUL PLEASE, your MM doesn't know when he's coming or going and he's definitely made you his spare tire. That's just messed up that he thinks you'd be okay with it. I'm taking it as a very good sign that you see what a rotten deal it is that he's offering. But when I say be careful, I mean he seems to be shifting somehow, at least based on what you've been writing. I feel like he might be plotting to do something really devious. For heaven's sake don't give him anymore pictures of yourself becuase who knows what he'd do with them if he ever felt that you had crossed him? Love can turn to hate in a heartbeat, and the wild passion between you two can turn without warning at some point too, you just never know. You don't want those things (the pics) floating about out there, I don't think they're so safe in his hands because he's not actually in them himself. He could just claim you sent them, unbidden by him. That's just a worst case scenario, but the thought's crossed my mind. Whatever the case turns out to be, I just don't like the sound of the way he's behaving right now...there's something fishier than usual going on (call me sensitive or paranoid and you might be right, but it's what I sense). Hopefully it will just turn out to be a false alarm on my part, I hope so. But erring on the side of caution couldn't hurt someone in your situation...you've got a family at stake, a real family and children you love with your whole heart who need your protection from his erratic behavior. I hope that didn't come out sounding judgmental, I don't mean it that way at all, I'm just concerned and I don't trust your MM to be stable and reliable when it might really count.
okay, i'm off to sleep. take good care everyone and lots of love, stn

THIS IS INSANE.....My Husband is having a midlife crisis, and has found comfort in his secretary.....She is pathetic, as women we have a code of ethics that says or should say, we don't mess with married men. As a women I would never be so desperate as to be with a married man...........I have 3 children who are being deeply hurt by this.........

Any women who would sleep with or persue a married man is revolting.......

"tonight I found out my MM is in touch with lots of women on line, old friends he says. And he never reads his email"

Sorry STN - but does that sound credible to you?

"He kept saying that, then when I said “you can’t get me pregnant it will cause trouble for you, I don’t want to hurt you”, you know what he said…ok, so this will make you mad….he said “it won’t if you don’t say anything”.

... what do you see in him?

Hello ladies,

I only have a moment but wanted you all to know how grateful I am for your advice, support and love.

STN, no, I didn't find you too judgemental and agree with you, I do have my family and children to consider and protect, particularly our daughter, from my MM and whatever it is he's thinking. I also know that sending those pictures was very wrong and I won't do it again. I love you for your concern for me, believe me I do. I read part of your post, I'm sorry you're feeling so angry and sad. I'll read more and write back.

Dali, I have no idea where this love comes from and believe me I wish I could rid myself of it, of him. I've love him for so long, half my life, I seem to not know any other way. I recognize I need to let go, and I'm trying. I'm happy that you have the love you do, whether or not your future is together with him, it sounds like a beautiful love and one you'll cherish no matter where your destiny brings you.

Pie, I wish I knew what I saw in him, at least now. What I did see in him was a kind, loving, enthusiastic fun man who said he loved me "more then I could imagine" and has for as long as I've loved him (so he said). But that was a few months ago, and I realize now he lied. Unfortunately that hasn't taken the love I have for him away although I keep praying for that to happen.

Thank you all as always for caring for me and know I care and love you just as much. I'm sorry I don't have more time and at the moment I'm not in a very good state of mind, feeling very lost, alone and scared. I'll post again.

Love to all
Corinne
xoxoxo

it may or may not sound credible pie, but i'm 100% sure it's true. it's a source of pride for him not to read email and to have lots of letters coming in anyway. he likes the ego stroking he gets. we've seen it before and it's not going away any time soon...alas.

STN,
check your email.

Why does "I'll call you later" never come. Of course when I talked to my MM yesterday morning when he was so sweet he said "I'll call you later if I can", then later never comes.

Why does he have NO regard for me or how I feel. Could he actually not know how completely and totally I am in love with him? Does he just not care?

Why is he so sweet in some regards (few, but some) and so cold in others. Sweet in saying I love you, when he said he wanted to "give you the baby you want" he said "I want to be there, feel it grow inside you, be there when it's born and watch you name it when they lay it on your chest", then turn around and say "don't say anything about it and it won't be trouble". Why beg me to be there with him and then say "it won't be what you want but I'll see you whenever I can". Knowing full well "whenever" is hardly ever.

I pray every day for this love I'm holding on to to be released from me, cleanse me of it. I'm still waiting, praying. How do I say good bye to him, tell him I don't want to be there as the woman he f**ks while he lives with the woman he loves. This is just too much pain, anger, frustration, hurt, loss. I feel weak and torn apart.

Please pray for me to have the strength to say good bye to him. I don't want it to be a harsh f**k off good by but simply, I can't do this, I deserve better, I'll always love you, always have, but have to let you go you've hurt me too much. Please pray I have the strenght to follow through with that plan.

I love you all!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hey Girl

With each post you sound stronger and then you don't hear from your MM and you fall back into that rut, do you notice the pattern of emotional distress you are putting yourself through? But I do have faith that you will "jump" off that cliff and never look back. Your MM is slowly sending you to the cliff, it's up to you to jump. How liberating it will be to jump and be on your own terms.
Don't be afraid, you have nothing to lose and only the truth to gain.
The way we love our MM's, it's like an addiction, a drug we can't live without.
Hang in there girl.
Love Allison

Hi Gals:

Lots of things are happening at work which is pulling us away from eachother.
We both take our jobs really seriously and we both find ourselves getting so involved with work and then time passes and we don't see eachother.
This is causing a major stress between us, so me being me I just pull away instead of saying how much I miss him and want to see him.

3 weeks has gone by and we have spent little time together, it sucks.
And we do hang out, he acts strange, always thinks I am going to dump him.
I don't get that..we both put up these major walls.

It's 15 months for us now and I feel we are going through our first rough patch, a part of me wants to give up and the other wants to believe.
He continues to tell me he loves me and wants me to be happy. The main serious conversation we had last I told him how my life with him feels "real" and my life without him (on weekends) isn't my life, it feels fake.
He said to me again, let me think about that one. I said no you don't get it,
I don't need you to fix anything, this is how real you feel to me and if that helps push you into a decision so be it. He is pretty black and white..he

Nothing has changed so that's where I am at, just gliding along.
Hoping his love for me continues to grow every day as it does for me.

Dear Corinne,
I'm in a more or less better mood than the last time I wrote. I guess I'm just feeling pensive these days. I have a lot of time on my own and all I ever want to do is sleep. I feel like I'm recovering from some kind of catastrophe and that this is the first time in far too long that I've stopped moving around, stopped distracting myself and started to feel all of the feelings that have come with parting ways with my MM. We're still in touch by phone and email on and off, but the physical distance between us is giving me some mental space as well. Mostly I'm feeling exhausted and thankful that I have this time to collect myself.
I haven't gotten involved in local-life here yet in Italy, but I know I will at some point. But everything I do I do with caution these days, even smiling. I also care more about everything than I used to. If I see someone having a hard time, I feel more compassion than before. At least that's something positive that's come out of this situation.
My MM sent me candy for Valentine's Day and I thought that was something...especially since I didn't get him anything. I really think it helps to hold back from these MM, then they start doing things to please us. It's as if I'm nothing to him when I'm giving everything and everything when I'm giving nothing. It all makes about as much sense as the rest of the affair. In the end, Corinne, I think that the reason your MM doesn't call 'later' when he says he will is because he calls when HE feels a need to talk to you and doesn't stop to think about the fact that sometimes you feel the need to talk to him. It's pure selfishness and self-interest. I've seen the same behavior in my MM. It's a matter of pride as well, my MM doesn't like to be the one in pursuit, he likes to force me to be the one to speak about how I feel about him without ever really telling me how he feels about me. I know he loves me deeply, but it's as hard as hell for him to say it and to explain his feelings for me to me.
Anyway, I'm getting side-tracked, I should just wish you all the strength in the world as this next week approaches. I think your decision to break things is a step in the right direction, no matter how it turns out. Even if you give in to his begging or arguing with you (which he'll probably end up doing at some point), at least he'll know you're not his slave anymore and that the end of your patience is in sight. He needs to know you have limits or he's going to keep walking all over your for the rest of your life.
As for the business about the child, it's all a romantic fantasy for him, he's interested in the ideas he has about it, not in the reality of it. That makes him a jerk in my book because he's already got one child he isn't up to treating the way he should, he hasn't got any business bringing children into the world if he doesn't want to care for them. I'm sorry to say that so baldly, but I feel this is a strong sign of his weak character. I know you love him and that's going to defy all logic (that's how love is sometimes), but I'd love to give him a piece of my mind about the child-issue since I'm not head over heals for him. Anyway, I'm hoping that this coming week you'll have the strength and determination you'll need to do what's right for you. However you handle it, I know we'll be proud of you for doing what you can to take back some control over this situation that's hurt you so badly.
Lots of love as always, STN

Hello Ladies,
Isn't it time to end the vicious circle of painful love? How to straighten it (or ourselves) out? I suggest to bring links to articles, research, publications and other sources of knowledge. Better yet, to represent them with a short briefing, giving the essence, because in today's world things are very very wordy and watery.
Supportingly,
Wonder

Hi Corinne,
After reading what Allison had to say to you I just want to agree. This need you have to hear from him is a symptom of your addiction, like other kinds of addictions it makes you do things that defy all logic, makes you want things that aren't in your best interest and it makes you feel desperate when it's time for your 'fix' and you don't get it. Recognizing this feeling for what it is can help you. It helped me at least, I mean once I knew that I had to get that desperate need cleaned out of my system I started to slowly find other ways of feeling happy. Nothing in the world compares to how happy I feel when I'm with my MM, don't get me wrong, it's just that I found other types of things that can make me happy and get me through rough patches without feeling like I need to kill myself to stop the pain. So what I'm trying to say is that you need something like 'drug replacement therapy'...you've got to build up your strength to fight off that desperate need you have for contact and positive interaction with your MM with other kinds of happiness. At least that's how it worked for me. First I had to stabilize things between me and my MM so that we weren't making each other insane and then, slowly (and I'm still working on this), I keep forcing myself to get involved in things that distract me and make me feel anything other than desperate to talk to my MM. Coming to terms (or at least doing the best I could) with my situation with my MM helped a lot...knowing and accepting what was and wasn't going to change had a huge stabilizing effect (and it stopped me from desperately trying to make things happen that would never happen). The period of acceptance came with a LOT of painful, mournful disillusionment, I had force myself to face some ugly facts, but that saved me in a way. I think I'm talking in mostly abstract terms without examples, but I hope this makes some kind of sense anyway. And it took me several tries to break the hope of a real future with my MM, but each time I tried, even if it wasn't 100% effective, I felt stronger. You just might be able to do it all at once and never look back, just do whatever you can to make yourself comfortable during this process. I never placed a great value in being comfortable, but these days it seems like one of the most important and valuable things to be in this life that's so full of ups and downs. I really mean it when I say take good care of yourself, there's just no substitute for taking good care of yourself...it makes a world of difference when times get tough.
Write soon and let us know how it goes, I've got my fingers crossed and hopes high for you!
xoxo, STN

Hi Allison, I just wanted to check and see if I understood your situation the right way - is your man's wife more or less out of the picture now, I mean he's not still considering going back to her, right? Sorry if I've misunderstood. It sounds like he's a good guy and that you've got about as good of a chance as any woman who's lucky enough to find a good man.

And Dali, where did you go?! I've been wondering what kinds of conclusions you were thinking of coming to after your trip. Have you changed your mind about things?

Corinne:
My MM and I talked a little while ago and he said something about how we'll go to Europe together when we're old and we can hold each other's arms while we try to walk since we'll be so old and frail. I thought it was sweet that he thinks about us spending our old age together since there's nothing for us now and it charmed my socks off when he said that he still would love me when I'm old and grey. I guess it doesn't amount to much more than a romantic dream, but I like it, it's sweet and it makes me feel like he really does love me, all of our situational limitations aside. He's talked like this about us traveling before...meeting overseas in neutral territory and having romantic rendez vous in our old age. Is that how your MM's talk about the child he wants to give you makes you feel Corinne? I hope my MM isn't just saying stuff like this to string me along, it didn't seem like it since I'm not on his string anymore to begin with, he knows that I'm supposed to be thinking of my future without being attached to him, we agreed on that...but maybe you ladies can see something in this that I'm not seeing.

xoxo, STN

Ladies I missed you!!!

Sorry Ive been gone for a while things have been very busy lately. I just wanted to write a quick note to all of you on here. I will be emailing you individually shortly. Corinne do I have news for you!! Love you all lots <33333

xoxoxo
Jamie

P.S Corinne my email address is Paradiselvr8887@yahoo.com so dont delete when you see that address!

Corinne and STN read your yahoo emails please!!! Allison I need your hunny..its important let me know what it is ok? Lots of love<333333

xoxoxo
Jamie

Hi, i am so glad i found this site, i've been up all nite reading and re-reading all the posts, i think i'm going cross-eyed and crazy! i got involved (unexpectedly) with my MM almost a year ago and have been living in hell, don't know what to do, he's been married for almost 15 years with two young girls, not that young (9 & 12), am i going to be the homewrecker that i never thought would happed? we love each other so much and he tells me he wants to leave his wife adn be with me, we spend every moment we can together and it is beautiful, we laugh, talk, enjoy each others company and yes i have to admit the sex we have is great and feels so natural. i've dated many guys around my age but he is so different (can't explain how, though-make any sense?) we have a 14 year diff in our ages, but that doesn't mean anything to me.

i'm still not quite sure how this site works so i just replied to the last post, but reading them from SNT,dali, allison, jamie and corine and others. you all sound so strong and confident and smart and i think i need to know what to do. i want to be with him as much as he wants to be with me but how do we deal his wife and children. His wife doesn't know about us but i don't know what to do. i guess like some of you on here i go crazy waiting to hear from him and drive myself nuts the time he isn't with me. Is he home pretending to be happy and stringing me along or will he ever leave, how long do i wait, do i give him the time he needs or tell him its me or her. i do agree with some of girls here, that if he does leave he will still be a father and still have a relationship with his girls, has anyone here been in this position? what have your experiences been when children have been involved, do these relationships ever work out in the longrun, do they regret what they've done or are they really happy once they leave. i just drive myself nuts with all the roadblocks that may come our way, he doesn't seem worried about it though. i don't want to end this love we have but what do i do???? i don't want to "share" him with anyone (his wife) am i being stingy/selfish? i don't think he knows how to tell his wife that he wants out (an excuse, maybe) what do i tell him, i know that we can have a great future together but am i getting ahead of the game here, i've already put almost a year devoted to him only and need to know what is coming next, what do i do any sugguestions from gals would be great. i'll check back later today and hopefully someone here can guide me in the right direction. sorry so long but i'm glad i've found a place where other girls can understand my situation. thanks tina

hello girls,

been a very busy week, too many things to do, too many lectures to prepare.
I said i would start dating and i did. its not great but its a begining to mingle, and try and find someone who could be a good friend and a buddy... my MM is taking it fine... on the other hand, he wrote me three poems ! so STN there you are, suddenly you become the 'apple of their eye'. i dont mind that at all. but that does not change anything. he is not ready to tell his family so, all he does is cry in self pity. says he cannot tell his parents, father could die of a heart attack etc... well islamic culture being what it is...
i am coping fine, but i know that low will come again one of these days.

STN, your MM wants to feel that connection... hence all this talk. they have a problem these men here, they do not talk to their wife about the real them. so they need someone else, and generally they look for someone independent.that way they are intelectually stimulated, at the same time, it does not give rise to conflict ( as in marriage) it sounds cynical, but cant help it.

Corinne how you doing? keep not answering those phone calls... it will help you.

lillybit how you doing?

take care all of you
dali

Hi Jamie, glad to hear from you.

I can't set up an email at work with Yahoo, they won't allow the download, is it cool you write me here ?

I have had another breakthrough.! I will post what happened on friday after I answer STN's question.

Love Allison

Hi STN

Our situations are unique, I am newly seperated trying to get my things together in order to move out and start a new life. He still lives with his wife and 2 kids, although he hardly spends anytime with her, they just co-exist for the sake of his kids. On friday he made a promise to me that he will not let me down and will be with me. I beleive him he isn't the type to start a relationship with me and tell me he loves me all the time if he didn't mean it.
I think once I get my new condo, things will really come together, he will have a place to go. I have to be patient, all good things are worth the wait.
He knows I can't wait forever, I can see him slowly getting up the strength.
He loves me, not her, it's the guilt of the kids keeping him there.

Hope that explains it, similar to Jamies situation.

Hi Tina,
Welcome to the site! I definitely sounds like you're in a similar position to all of us. Just to answer your question, do these relationships ever work out: well, I read somewhere that only about 4 or 5% of them do. The MM we love tend to follow the same pattern (with few exceptions), basically they want their cake and they want to eat it too. They want to keep their stable home-lives and they want us to fulfill some need they feel in their hearts (or pants, or both)on the side. They stall, they delay, they give mixed signals so that they keep us hanging on. The question becomes, at some point, 'Do I want to hang on, knowing that he'll never leave his wife but somehow loves me anyway?'
Your case may be different, your MM might love you and somehow be willing to leave his wife at some point down the road...it's hard to tell without having your details. Is there something he's saying that's making you doubt he'll ever make you his new wife, is there something he's saying or doing that makes you think he might? Chances are the answer to both of these questions is YES.
I wish I could resolve the problem for you, but you're going to (most likely) have to do what many of us have done, that is, figure out what the reality of your situation is, what he's really willing to give up for you, how much of himself he'll be willing to give you and if you can live with what you discover.
Bascially, it sucks being the OW in most cases and yet, somehow I know my MM loves me as much as his wife, just in a different way and with a lot more limitations. It doesn't amount to much more than that, but it's something.
I hope that doesn't sound too pessimistic, it's just that it's been hell and I get sad when I think of someone else going through something similar. There are high points to all of it too and maybe I'll say something about them next time.
Wishing you all the best,
STN

Ok, I checked the e-mail and responded. Now check yours.

Corinne

Hello Allison,
It's good to hear from you. I'm sorry you feel you are going through a rough patch but in sounds as though it's only due to busy daily life as opposed to trouble with your love. Your love for eachother sounds true and beautiful and it seems it will only grow with time. I think it's completely natural for your man to worry a little, you've proven to him you are a strong, intelligent, independent and beautiful woman. You've also shown him your loving sensitive side. All reasons why he's in love with you. If you feel you are both putting up walls, why not try and take yours down for a moment with a glance or a smile, a whisper of "good morning" in his ear as you pass in the hallway. Something subtle, but assuring him although life is busy, he's still the one you love. You'll likely find the same type of response from him.

I completely understand what you mean by the weekends don't seem real, I've really started to hate the weekends myself. The wondering, the waiting, it's impossible to handle, but it sounds like in time your weekends will be with your man. Hang in there, it seems you are on a good path and your future is brightly shining ahead of you.

Keep us posted and e-mail when you can.

Much Love
Corinne

Hello Ladies,
My weekend was full of some very harsh realizations. My MM's rollercoaster ride for me has become wild and painful. He's brought me through so many ups and downs, here are some; he wants me there but constantly reminds me I'll "be alone" once I am and he doesn't know for how long and in the interim if I meet someone he'll "understand"; he wants me to have his baby, but not say anything about it so it doesn't cause trouble; he loves ME but insists on staying indefinitely in a relationship with a woman who shows no sincerity, companionship, appreciation, love or passion towards him..for what he can't say. I asked him over the weekend if I was expendable to him, he didn't know what that meant. I said "could you just let me go, right now, and not care". first he asked me "do you want me to" and I of course said no, I just wondered if it would be that easy for him. His response was "like I said, I haven't physically seen you in years, so I don't know". Not the response I wanted, I wanted "Corinne I love you, have loved you more then half my life and have been waiting to finally be together again". It's obvious those words will NEVER pass his lips, they are my thoughts and words.

Unfortunately, I still love him because for some reason of the 10 bad things he says the 1 good thing seems to shine through to my heart, which keeps me holding on. It almost feels like I'm drowning and on the one hand want to fight to get back to life and on the other just want to let it take me down and end the pain. My realization is he doesn't love me he only loves the idea of f**king me and keeping me tucked away somewhere with his trophy children for his enjoyment only. Last summer he made me feel so loved, so wanted, he was so sincere it felt so real. I handed him all my dreams and plans, he's thrown them away and crushed them, he stole my happiness. I'm left a broken image of the woman I used to be and pray I can start to find my way back to what’s real.

I'm so grateful to have you all as my family, my friends. You are the light I can see pulling me back to ME. Thank you for being here for me.

Much love to all!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hello Tina,
Welcome to our world. I've read your post and STN's reply and I have to say, as usual, STN is right. Your situation is unique and sounds positive.

I'm afraid currently I'm not in a position to give the soundest advice as my relationship has fallen to a horrible place, but I do want to tell you just to protect yourself. You love your MM and it sounds as if he sincerely loves you, just don't put all you plans and dreams in his basket, make sure you have your own path to travel happily in the event that he doesn't travel along with you. I'm not trying to frighten you, just caution you not to allow yourself the pain I’ve put myself into. It could be true that his home life is unloving and cold, just make sure it isn't a line to have his cake and eat it too, with you.

Sometimes yes, these relationships do work, Jamie is proof of that. Just be careful and protect your heart.

Please keep us posted on how things are going. The women on this site are great friends and loving caring people. They will be a huge help to you as they have been to me, I love them all.

Warm regards
Corinne

Hi Tina

Welcome to the board, we are all in the same boat, ship, canoe you can say.
Need more info on your situation, how old are you and how old is he ?

From your post, it sounds to me your not 100% sure you want him all the way. Maybe what you both have is enough for now, you can't worry about being a homewrecker, there is a reason he is with you. If he wants to leave his wife have you guys started a plan. ? He can be a dad, without her matter what.

What I have learned you can't put a timeline on these things, it will work itself out but he should be showing signs of more love with you and more intention to start a life together. What does he say, do you talk about living together etc..send more info :)

I do believe if it's meant to be it will be, you will know. In my heart I know he is the one for me as I am for him.

Love Allison.

Hi Corinne,
It just occurred to me after reading your update that although you are still in your MM's clutches and still a shattered version of yourself, you actually are making A LOT of progress. Maybe it doesn't seem so to you because you're distracted by all the pain you're going through and the disillusionment and the fact that he still has the power to suck you in whenever he wants, but really, I can see that bit by bit you're piecing this situation together, you're bringing yourself as best you can to terms with the ugly realities of the situation, and you're pushing yourself further and further along as well as you can, you're wanting what's best for yourself again, even if you aren't yet strong enough to get it in your grasp and you're putting a higher value on your own health and happiness. These are all really good things to be doing, they build you up little by little and I just wanted to make a point of saying so.
Love, STN

Hello Dali,
So you are keeping busy and are back in the dating scene. Good for you. I know it hurts but for now you are doing the right thing, and what's best for you heart and well being. It's simply icing on the cake that your MM is squirming now in the thought of you with someone else. I'm proud of you Dali, you did it. You've certainly accomplished something I've not been able to just yet, you're an inspiration.

It's obvious your MM does love you, and you have the beautiful memories of your trip. Hold on to those beautiful thoughts. If he's lucky enough he'll come around and realize you are the one he wants to walk through life with before you find love with another. I'm sure you'll find a rough spot missing him, wanting him, and that is what we are here for, to care for you.

I haven't mustered up the energy to not answer the calls yet, I'm working on it though. Each time he hurts me a little more, each time my heart moves a bit further away.

Much love Dali, and keep posting!
Corinne
xoxo

Hello ladies,
I hope you are all doing fine. I see that for most of us it's the usual rollercoaster, it's so easy to feel this way in our situation.
Corinne I've just finished reading your posts and I see that you are still so down and I'm sorry for that. But somehow I feel that you're stronger. Please don't even remotely consider to leave what you have to follow him. It could be the worst thing you could do to yourself. Can you imagine your life if you did that? You would be spending your time waiting for him to show up, whenever he pleases of course.
STN I gather from your posts that you're in Italy. I'm Italian, so whatever you may need I'm here. Just let me know. I've seen that many of you have a yahoo account, I haven't one yet, will do that soon.
Dali, I'm happy to know you're back to dating. Hope you'll soon find a nice guy... just make sure he's not married!!!
I think you're right when you say that they don't talk to their wives about themselves.. at least in my case it's utterly true. He finds me intellectually stimulating. You're not cynical, you're realistic and I'm sure we all know that. As I already said, they have it all... they have their cake and eat it too.
The security and affection a family provides, plus someone who fills their gaps, i.e. us.
Unfortunately we don't seem to be able to fully understand that and get rid of them once forever. I'm the first to admit that.
I've started to see my MM again, it happened a couple of times. It's not that we see each other very often, once a week if we're lucky. I missed him and I love him but at the same time I'm so aware that things will remain the same forever.
I guess it was not the right time for us to split up.
But of one thing I'm sure, even if I love him and I do love him, I'm not so weak as I was a couple of months ago. So yes, I still see him but I feel that I'm strong enough not to see him if I choose to. At least this is what I think now... probably I would change my mind should he decide to drop me again.
And Tina, well you're with us now... and you have a man who loves you and he's ready to leave his wife. I understand that you feel guilty for that, but I don't think it's your fault, something was already wrong with his marriage. It's not that you came along and he decided to leave his family out of the blue.
Wifes blame us all the time, they should blame themselves in the first place, or at least they should try to understand what went wrong in their relationship. Most of them failed in giving their husbands what they needed. I'm talking out of my MM's experience. His wife is a good mother but stopped to be his woman soon after the birth of their son. Nevertheless, he'll never leave her, I know I'm repeating myself here.
You all take care
Much love
Lillybit

Hello ladies!!!

Ohh..Im so glad that some of you really understand whats going on with me. It helps so much now that everything is out of the bag if you catch my drift :)

Corinne, I read your post and I must agree with STN. Even though it may seem that things are going really rough, I also see some progress with you! Thats great! You getting stronger, your telling him more about how you really feel, your asking him questions about the both of you and your not torturing yourself as much.

On the other hand I know how difficult it is to even think about letting something go that you truly love so much. In time, I hope there is peace, and strength that will come your way when dealing with your M.M. Its so important hun to take care of yourself, by being emotionally stable, he will see this and respect you for it.

There's been plenty of times when I was so depressed, but I would try my hardest not to give my M.M that satisfaction of knowing that he got to me. Men are strange creatures, in fact, they are the ones that are always unsure about themselves. So we do we expect them to figure us out?

I think that if ANY M.M knows deep down that you will always be there or be waiting for him..he will continue living his "so-called" happy marriage, while comfortably leaving us on the back burners. Screw that! Because in the long run, its us that's left with the broken promises...and <3 hearts <3.

I still deal with my insecurties everyday of him going back. Corinne and STN, now that you have read my email..you may understand now. But then again, I cant let myself be haunted by this fear. If he's going back..he's going back. The soon to be ex still thinks that our relationship is heading for disaster...she's 100% wrong..its going better than ever!!!

The reason I have my insecurities is because if he does go back..its not for her..(she knows this deep down)..its simply his obligations along with guilt. I know this deep down as well..so then I ask myself..If I know this why do I let this upset me?

I just dont want to lose someone that I love with all my heart because of something so ridiculous! He even tells me how he doesnt want to go back, and he's happy with the life that we have. Im just a very pessimistic person...I NEED TO GET OVER IT! :)

I will talk to you all soon!

xoxoxo
Jamie

hello Lillybit,

the break off takes time, rarely does it happen in one go. all of us here have seen that happen, you let go come back, then let go again... it goes on till you have let go of all your hope... so i do suggest to at least try to go out for a coffee with someone nice. it makes a difference. it does not have to be romantic, but a friend or someone you can flirt with. just imagin the balance, its all tilted to one side now, pain and waiting. this maybe one gram on the other side but still it is a begenning to balance out on the loneliness and waiting.

keep the good part of the old, that is what i am trying to do.
take care, keep writing

love
dali

hi Corinne,

you are darling, thank you for your kind words.
i am swampped with work, and that helps, because i just come home and drop dead. weekend i plan to go out for a movie. have you thought of travelling with your daughter? i love to do that with my mum, travel to a new place, or a museum, a botanical garden...

i think what STN says is correct, you are finding the strength in you, and the reality is changing you little by little... keep fighting in your mind and heart for a better tomorrow :-)

take care
love
dali

Hi Jamie

Stop being negative you have come so far with your man, why look back now.
Listening to you makes me worry about my MM, and if what he is saying is true.
That he won't let me down and one day he will be with me. Or am I going to have to put the foot down and make him choose like you did.

He is with you, you need to stay positive. Why would he want to go back, if he is so happy with you and tells you this. I don't beleive for one sec he will.
He already comitted to you, who cares how crazy the x is, that will never change. Gawd I wish my MM could be so strong and let go of her.

You know he keeps telling me things that I can't believe why he is still with her. Like he got her pregnant that's why he married her after she miscarried he felt bad and seemed like the right thing to do. Currently they often don't even share the same bed, she sleeps with her 5 year old, or he does.
When the weekends come, they go shopping for example, he says he is with his kids not her.He tells me he loves me almost everytime he sees me, that he has never felt this way for anyone in his entire life, he see's us having a life together, wishes he could wake up with me everyday, wants to do things he has never done before with me.... Yet, He wishes his kids were older ? Why would it be easier to leave ?

Anyhow as you can see I honestly say I see a pattern of movement towards us, but the problem is it could just change in an instant.
He needs to get over the "guilt" that he has to leave.
I keep telling him you staying to make everyone happy but your not even happy.
He admits that..he is a very reactionary person, and overthinks everything.

Jamie..when your man decided to leave..does this sound familar to you at all. I am just hoping this is the glimmer of light at the end of my tunnel.

Help.

Hi ladies,

It's good to read everyone's new messages and to know what's going on with all of you. It made me feel like writing a short update. Basically, PMS is nowhere in sight, so I'm feeling pretty strong at the moment. I'm meeting lots of new people and while I'm not hoping for anything at all from them, it feels so good to be in a new group, a new setting without all of the old baggage getting piled up on top of me.
I still wear the jewelry my MM got me each day and I treasure it. I try to imagine him in a place in my heart, tucked away, but there safe and sound and not going anywhere. On the other hand, I'm stepping forward with things. I realize so clearly now that I've got to be the grown-up in this situation and just keep appreciating the fact that he loves me, i love him, we shared what happy times we shared and also the fact that he's not mine, he needs to give his attention and dedication to his family. God that hurts, but it's the way it is. If he doesn't feel happy in his home so that he goes seeking out attention from other women, from me or whoever, well...the truth is, i want him to suffer from not being able to find what he needs outside of his home because i have suffered so much after he drew me close to him despite the fact that he had nothing substantial to offer me. i want him to know what it felt like to be me in our relationship. i doubt he'll ever know how much pain he caused me, but he does become a better person whenever he at least gets a remote sense of the kind of suffering i endured for his sake. in a way, i want him to hurt because i want him to grow, to grow and appreciate and respect other peoples' feelings beyond his own. he has done this to a certain degree while we've been together and i should praise his progress, but he's still essentially all about getting his cake and eating it too and seems to have no real idea how it's really unfair to everyone involved.
anyway, i do want things to remain good between my MM and me, but i'm free now and while it's scarey and lonely, i can finally say i feel better than i have in a long long time. i'm concentrating on my work again, i'm focused, i'm full of good ideas, i have plans, i'm facing problems that i had been avoiding, i'm making friends and appreciating old ones more than ever before. so that's how it is for now. who knows what tomorrow will bring, but all of the suffering i went through to get to this point suddenly seems worth it, at least for today.
love, stn

Hello Everyone,
Seems as though we are all moving through our daily lives, continuing to struggle with the love we have for our MM.

Lillybit, I'm glad you're seeing your man again, it's obvious you both have a deep love and respect for one another. No one knows what time and the future will bring. You actually may be together permanently in time when the kids get a little older and when he realized he is not with the woman he loves to be a woman he only feels obligated to. There is a song lyric that goes "and the fight will end and the world will bend, love will always win", I think that may be true in your case.

Jamie, I'm glad your relationship is continuing to go strong, I'm sorry you are tormented with worry. You are a pessimist, just as you said, but I'm the exact same way, I'm always waiting for the other shoe to fall and usually it kicks me right in the face. Your love sounds strong and it continues to grow, it definetly seems you are on a beautiful path. Every time you worry, close your eyes and hear his voice, hear him say "I love you", it will calm you. The X, she'll move on evenutally, it will just take time. When you get a chance please respond to the e-mails.

Dali, you go girl. I can see you too are getting stronger and stronger with time. You too may be with this man you love, time and fait are funny that way, but continue dating and see what is there for you, or just to have fun. When your MM realizes you are moving on he may panic and see you are the woman he loves and wants to be with.

STN, we get stronger and stronger each day don't we. Your advise and support is priceless to me and all of us. I hope your days are going beautifully.

Ladies, I wish I could find the energy to let this love go. I don't feel as weak at the moment, but am still desperate for his calls. He called me Tuesday afternoon and after a few minutes said "I'll call you back in 30 minutes". Well, that was 46 hours ago and I'm still waiting. Very typical. I wish there really was a reason for him to want to keep me as the "other woman", like the obligation to children, but they have no kids. So I just don't understand why, why be with someone who has zero compassion, understanding, appreciation, love or even passion for him and keep me alone and waiting for him, even get me pregnant. If its me he loves, why stay in a miserable realationship that he calls a "constant daily struggle". It just makes no sense to me and hurts that he'd even want to leave me hanging for something that seems so obvious. Don't worry, I don't plan on moving there, certainly not under these circumstances. I'll wait, wait until he's free (if he ever is), then maybe we'll have a chance. I do desperately want to travel to see him though I just can't figure out how to do it or if I even should.

Anyway, I'm so grateful to have such wonderful friends in you all. I love you and think and pray for you constantly.
We'll keep posting.

Much love to all! Remember you can e-mail me too corinne_40@yahoo.com
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hi Allison,

I just wanted to say that one of the most consisten patterns I keep seeing with everyone's MM (or mostly everyone's MM) is that they really start to work to keep you only when/if they feel you pulling away or setting standards for them to live up to, otherwise you run the risk of being taken for granted and underappreciated. I don't mean to say you should turn into a nag and tell him it's your way or the highway over and over again without backing it up with actions. I just meant that if you send him indirect signals that he's being scrutinized by you, that you're giving a bit less than he's used to to your relationship and that you're starting to talk about a future that doesn't have him in it because you 'don't know when he'll ever be yours anyway' (again, say it all indirectly), I really think you'll be less likely to sit on the backburner indefinitely - especially if he is a reactionary person. BUT, if he's really unable to make a solid move in your direction now, then that's how it is. You'll have to figure out just how true you think that claim is and if you can live with it, without some kind of plan for your future together. That takes some real nerve and courage, to face that question I mean. These are just some thoughts I had on the subject, I might be wrong, but everything I'm saying is based on what I've seen most of the OW go through.

Lots of love,
STN

"I'll wait, wait until he's free (if he ever is),"

*oops*

Hello Allison,
In reading your posts I think what I can see is clear, your MM loves you and is tormented when you are apart. He is working towards a future with you, and this will take time. Does his wife know of his desire to change their situation?

The question for you is how long do you want to remain on the back burner, how long are you willing to wait. Your happiness is what's most important and if at any time the seperation when he is away from you begins to make you feel lost and desperate, that is the time to step back and be certain this is the place you want to be at this time. Day by day. You love him, he loves you, I'm not saying let go because I think it looks like you will have a loving future together. I'm just asking you to protect your heart (I know I've said that before). I don't want you to hear what I've heard from my MM about me being near him "you'll be alone for a while, I don't know how long, as long as you understand that, and I'll come over whenever I can". That completely obsolved him of all responsibility or feeling of guilt should "whenever" never happen. Don't put yourself into that trap, its a horribly painful place to be. It doesn't sound like that is where your MM is taking you, his love sounds pure and beautiful and Jamie is proof that this love can work. Patience is what you need to hold on to and listen what he tells you about his situation. Leaving the kids will be difficult, but kids bounce back adjust. People shouldn't remain in a miserable situation for the sake of the children, that will only lead to miserable children in the long run.

I don't know if I made sense enough for you but I hope so. It's a waiting game, and that is the hardest part, waiting. When you are feeling sad or lonely, remember how much he's told you he loves you, remember the feeling of your bodies together and the love you share. It will help you through the moment.

Keep us posted.
Much Love
Corinne
xoxoxo

Honey, here is the scoop from a woman who has been on the "other" end of an affair - my husband cheated on me....

1. He is LYING - cheaters creed: (my wife/hsuband doesn't understand me, won't put out, married becuase of kids)..etc...etc...etc..
2. He belongs to SOMEONE ELSE
3. Married men very RARELY leave their wives - the wives usually kick them out!
4. He has CHILDREN - do you think it is appropriate to be a part of ruining this family?
5. IF HE WILL DO IT WITH YOU, HE WILL DO IT TO YOU, don't fool yourself!!!

Do you ladies ever think about things this way:
Our MM have wives and children and day to day lives at home. This is their foundation. It's like a main meal, it's what keeps them going and it's what they go to work for in the end. Let's simplify it and just call it dinner. Having a well balanced dinner with some unpleasant tasting vegetables and maybe some decent meat might be good by itself a lot of the time, it's healthy and important --in fact, our MM were the ones who went out, bought the ingredients and cooked up their main meals by themselves ... some days they might be able to make something special of it, but most days it's just the 'usual' and so sometimes they want some chocolate cake and icecream for desert to make it more special. Just about everyone likes something sweet now and then. That's were we OW come in. We're the chocolate cake.

We're the best part of the meal, the favorite part in many ways, the most tempting part, the part that they might wish for the most...but if we start to want our MM to make us their main meal and have what they're thinking of as chocolate cake for every meal, every day instead of something solid like their main meal - well, they get sick of us and start craving their regular main meal again. They're glad to have us, thrilled to have us, so long as we remember to stay in our places as their desert and we let don't pose any threat to them having their main meals.

I'm pretty sure that's what my situation amounts to anyway. And being a chocolate cake and turning my MM into my chocolate cake isn't fulfilling for me, because I haven't been getting my main meal. So all of that chocolate and no nutrition has been making me sicker and sicker.

And maybe worst of all, I have to sit around feeling hungry at night when I know my MM is at home having his dinner and sex with his wife, telling me that I can't call him there and that I'll get some chocolate cake when he's 'able' to bring it by, meaning really whenever he feels like having some desert. I think I've had enough of chocolate cake in my life for good and he can find someone else to be his cake if he wants. For all I care at this moment, he can eat 50 chocolate cakes a day for the rest of his life, I'm done with it.
STN

Married men can be so charming; they leave all their nastiness at home with their wives and you only see the good side. I've had a couple of those kinds of relationships myself. Both times, I wound up broken hearted and the man stayed married.

If you're smart, you'll learn from my experience, and get out now. If you're the kind of person who only learns from her own experience, you'll probably hang around until the bitter end -- until his wife finds out, or until he finds another playmate. Meanwhile, you're facing years of being alone on holidays and handling crises without help.

Of course, you're probably hoping he's going to divorce his wife and marry you. But is that really what you want? To switch roles and become the one he's lying to while he's having honest pillow talk with someone else? (Believe me, men rarely change their patterns.) Even if he suddenly becomes true-blue, you'll never have him all to yourself; he'll have lifelong obligations to his former wife and family.

You deserve a man of your own, and your child deserves a real family. Tell the married man you're breaking up with him, get back into dating, and get busy with other things. It may be hard at first, because you've fallen for this guy, but the surest way to get over him is to find someone else who can be all yours.

Pie, here's an honest question -does it make *YOU* feel better to throw people's words in their faces? I can't say that it does any of the OW much good. I'm trying to understand just what's making you so interested in our troubles. It doesn't sound like you're struggling with a MM at this time, otherwise you'd know exactly why trying to find logical loop holes in the things we say doesn't really help us. Sure, not everything we say is consistent nor does it all add up nor does it all conform to how things 'should be', but so what? We're dynamic creatures, we're in a sea of pain and we need more than having our words thrown in our faces and our logical inconsistencies highlighted for everyone to see in order to get out of it. Maybe your head rules your heart right now, but one day, if you don't learn it here from us, you'll learn from some other experience that reasoning and common sense and shining a light on other people's obvious problems aren't cures for pain or self-destruction...if you want to help, your heart's got to be in it, then you'll understand.

Each time we women give of ourselves to men who are married and as well have children, it only chips away at any chance of us ever having a normal healthy relationship with a REAL man. You have to believe they still do exsist. We women are always the ones who end up with the short end of the stick, each time we cross over into territory we do not belong in, slowly but surley piece by piece a part of us dies and will never be the same again. When we women are in love whole heartedly and passionatley our sense of rationality unfortunatley at times ceases to exsist, therefore, a man can make love to you and finish inside of you and once he's through he can pull out and be on his merry way back to his family and what are we left with? I'll tell you....we are left with nothing but emptiness and longing for what we cannot have nor does belong to us.

If these men are able to be disloyal to their families. In all honesty what really makes you think he would not do the same to you? It may not be right away but some way some how the ugliness tends to repeat itself at some point.

We women need to have a backbone and not let these men rule our lives by giving us false hope and we also need to be strong and have faith that we will find someone one day who really does deserve us and who as well has not made vows to another.

Lets also get it through our heads that just because someone is claiming to be unhappily married and is giving us the greenlight to pursue, it doesn't mean it is in our right or place to take it to another level.

Sorry for the ramblings, I just needed to vent a little. Overall I am tired of reading the same stories on these boards of weak women caught up in unnessesary predicaments. I am not trying to be insulting, but the fact is we tend to be in our weakest moments when we end up in situations like most threads I have read. Thank God for a board like this one, because a lot of people end up seeing the light at the end of the tunnel once they are steered to it correctly by people who care and that truly want to help and stop this viscious cycle of infidelities.

Please feel free to respond.

After eading all of the posts, I feel compelled to reply. First, thanks to all of those who understand the pain of the wife and kids. Second, thanks for those who support the mistress--even on a contemptuous level. As a former wife of a cheater, I can honestly say that it IS a DEVESTATING situation to have a husband with a mistress. In my case, my husband started a relationship with a woman after we had been married eight years and were parents to a two-year-old.

My ex eventually left me for this woman and they were married two years ago. One of the most painful parts of this situation is that my daughter goes on visitation with her father and has had regular contact with the mistress from the start. I , on one hand, feel anger, not towards the mistress, but towards my ex. He had the wife and kid, thus I feel he had the control to end the relationship if he wanted to. Apparently he didn't or we'd still be married. Each day, I struggle with the loss of stability, the continual confusion on my child's and my part, and the other fallouts of divorce--loss of financial stability, etc. Oddly enough, I feel bad for the mistress because my ex has cheated on her just recently with some other person in the area where he lives. She (the wife) is devestated and bitter because she feels betrayed because he cheated on her. Fancy that! WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND. However, as a result of his selfish decision, his mistress (new wife) has gotten pregnant and has demanded that they move across country (2400 miles) from my daughter--who adores her dad. They recently moved and my daughter is wrecked with sadness because she feels a double rejection. I feel saddened because I am left with the fallout of a child who will grow up with these losses as part of her make-up. Mistresses listen up: THINK OF YOUR LOVERS' CHILDREN. THEY ARE INOOCENT AND THEY NEED THEIR FATHERS. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO LOSE. My daughter gets to see her father far less and she gets to see him live with his New kids and not her. She gets to miss out on regular outings with her dad--which I think are extremely important for a young girl in order to bolster her self esteem--and she gets to be the victim of the new wife's ower plays where she thinks she won some contest over who gets the man.

While I do not think her demands to move far away will make their relationship ant more stable, I do think that , again, THE CHILDREN: MY DAUGHTER AND THE EXPECTED CHILD (OR CHILDREN IF THEY HAVE MORE) WILL PAY THE HIGHEST PRICE.

Right, hmmm... this is to the woman who called Corinne "Honey":
Here's my feeling, for what it's worth. I can see why you're angry, of course I can and I'm sorry for what happened to you. You have every right to be angry as it seems. Still, I like to think that we women shouldn't antagonize each other and get angry at each other as much as we do...we share the same problem in a lot of ways. I for one am profoundly sorry about what I've contributed to my MM's mistreatment of his wife, but in the end, she's HIS wife, not mine. HE's the one made the commitment to her and broke it. HE's the one who makes me believe that he really loves me and needs me. HE pursued me relentlessly until I gave in and only then realized that, oops, he had no idea how to handle the situation. And duh, I was equally foolish, sincerely caught off guard by what this situation would cost me, how it would harm me and trap me and how unfair it was to everyone. Shame on me, and I mean that.

I shouldn't have given in and then I wouldn't have suffered as much as I have and I wouldn't have contributed to the emotional failure of his marriage. Fine, I've paid for that dearly and am going to keep paying for a long time to come. But don't forget who has their cake and eats it too? The men who say the love us but typically just love themselves at our expense, that's who. They set up a competition for us (wives vs. OW) so that the wives and the OW both sense that we need to fight for their loyalty, love, passion and affection. We women (on either side) scramble and struggle until we exhaust ourselves hoping to get some affirmation, some kind of lasting commitment and sincere investment from these men but we just keep finding ourselves right where we started, sitting in the middle of Indecision City, wasting countless hours at the curb for the bus headed down the Road to Nowhere.

And after all that, I still do believe I love my MM and that he loves me, call me a fool and maybe you're right, but the way I see it, he's just caught in his own trap and he wants me and his wife in it with him; he's not particularly happy or fulfilled either way and he's suffered like hell for his indecision and his inability to get anywhere with this situation. And his wife, well, I can only imagine. I'd like to think that we'd all have higher standards for ourselves, but maybe that's what experiences like this teach us in the end anyway. If I manage to keep my wits about me, no one is going to catch me lowering my standards ever again, especially not 'my' MM. Those days are gone and just to sum things up, I'm sorry for the pain your husband caused you, I really am and just wanted to let you know that there's no real need to tell us OW to see the things you think we should see. A lot of us are already seeing them and if not, that time will likely come on its own anyway (96% of the time MM stay with their wives and opt out of the affairs that they initiated in the first place).
STN

I had known him for a year, he was the boss's son. I knew his marriage was not going too well, but honestly never gave it a second thought. One night he was at a party I was at, with other coworkers, his wife and two young sons were out of town for a month, visiting relatives. He was flirting, but I always flirted. I was 22, a single college girl; he was 29, married for0 years.

I invited everyone over to my house to swim, he was the only one who came. When we started kissing, I felt a little weird, but the next thing I knew we were in bed. He kind of swept me off my feet, he was so into me. We spent the whole month together. No one could know!! It was truly the most exciting, wild, romantic time I have ever had, before or since. I fell hard.

But I did not want to break up his marriage, even though he insisted it was miserable. He said he didn't know if he could leave. I said I just wanted him to be happy. But I just wanted him.

I was isolated. I could tell no one. I finally confided in a friend who lived far away, he said to walk away. But lo and behold, my man did leave his wife of ten years for me. We were married a year later.

Now its 6 years later. We are still married, his kids love me, & his ex and I are friends. But it is not what I bargained for. Our life together has been hell. He started drinking, guilt maybe, and he has been in and out of rehab, court, etc. He ruined my credit. Wrecked my car. And now, at a time when I should be enjoying the fruits of my years of college, I spend my days driving him around, watching him waste away his life. I spend all my money taking care of him and his kids. I keep waiting for it to get better. R

emembering the whirlwind relationship we had. Why don't I leave?? I do still love him, despite it all, but guilt maybe. I made my bed & now I have to lie in it. If I could do it again, I would never do it again. I hope this reaches someone. I used to lie in bed praying for him to be mine. Please, be careful what you wish for. You may get it.

HI
been away for awhile, I absolutely agree with you, only I think we're just the frosting for them, hey everybody always wants the corner piece with the most frosting, but after awhile it gets to be too much and you would rather not have all that frosting. my situation hasn't changed much. i try to think of his wife and girls, do i have the right to take a father from two innocent children, no matter what he tells me. Tell me if this makes sense. We being the OW, finally get our MM, but what do we really get. I'll tell you, I think we then have to deal with having an OW (the x and children) that we will have to deal with always. I don't want to have to deal another woman in any of my relationships, but getting the MM we are inviting another woman into our lives and our relationship as long as the relationship continues. Can we as the OW deal with another woman? or would we want to, I think not. That's how I feel right now.

Regards
T

my dear STN,

you are angry, but what you say is true. we want to be that wholeome meal. and we know we have it in us to make a family work. i totally understand your pain. and the coming and going of pain and anger. i pray for all of us to heal. i pray that if our love was true, may we be gifted with a love that will keep us warm, happy and secure.
take care,
love
dali

dear Maya,

what is the difference between a married man in a unhappy relationship and a divorced man?
it is one has had the strength to move away, while the other does not.
so if you date a divorced man, you would still have the same problems? he would be commited to the family?
so are you saying one should only date never married men?
so that means if we have children, and have a past we should not date, because we have to deal with more complex family issues?

it all depends on what kind of a man you are dating. for eg. my MM does not have the strength to move away. so i am doing it. painful as it maybe i have started dating and trying to move on. but i know of my friends parents. they were in love, divorced their partners, got married, had three children... etc etc. they are still in love. no more affairs. i know my MM will not have any other affairs, he is not going to look for another woman. we happened, we did see this coming or understand how we are here. but any other similar situation and we will run far from it. so there are different people.

dali

very well said STN
i think i should show a print out of this to my MM, wonder what he will think about it

dali

hi Corinne,

how are you? i keep myself busy with work. sometimes chat with MM. it goes anyway, and these days i just say what on my mind. but really it does not change anything in him. we talk about what i am looking in the other person. and i tell him, how much damage he has done, because i am not the person i use to be. i am more reserved and aloof. while i use to be so warm. but now i am warm to him, but when i go out i am protecting myself so much. this makes me angry at my MM. because he will be a shadow for quite some time. so having your best friend and your MM rolled into one is quite a bad situation...

take care
dali

Hi STN

I read your last post about the chocolate cake and I am probably the only woman on the face of this earth who doesn't like sweets.

In my siutation I am so NOT the cake, I am the plate,fork,knife, napkin and candle when his birthday comes.
I fill-in the voids of hurt, anger, boredom and love.
I think the cake theory is right but let's dig deeper..you need eggs, flour, water all sorts of ingredients to make the cake taste good. It may look good but taste bad..so I guess what I am trying to say, depends of who your serving the cake too in the end, and how it tastes to them determines their next meal.

I hope you feel better girl.
Love Allison.

Hey STN,

I love your chocolate cake post. I think it was well said and truthful. For me, it's not even about anger. It's about realization. We have to take the blinders off and see the situation for what it is. The reality of it is they like us in small amounts. Okay, that made me laugh. Why do all our stories sound the same? I mean damn, don't you all just get tired of hearing the same ole bullshit. "I can't leave because of the kids, the finances, i'm so unhappy, she makes me miserable, she doesn't give me any sex." Sometimes, don't you just feel like saying, "please have a tall glass of shut the fuck up." I'm sorry ladies, but I'm just in that kinda mood today. It is such a waste of time and energy to devote your time to a man that belongs to someone else. Anyway, that's my rant. On another note.....Corinne, I am so proud of you. You are getting stronger each day and slowly, your MM is losing his hold on you. To all the other ladies, good luck and everyday is a work in progress.

lots of love
daniellejordan

Hi Everyone

I want to let you all know that I finally left my husband.
Not for my MM, my marriage has been dead for over a year and I have been co-existing with him but seperated.

It has been tough and continues to get worse as we sort of the financials. I was really afraid that doing this my MM would freak out and think I did it to make him be with me. My marriage was over before me & my MM started our relationship. Actually quite the opposite has happened....he confessed that our life together just took another leap forward. I think he see's the strength of me and how I am handling the situation makes it easier for him to maybe do the same ? Who knows..I am not banking on that at all. I feel a huge burden lifted, a new beginning..

It's funny...in a way I think my MM is worried because now that I am totally free and clear, I might find someone else ? The reason I say this is because of some of the things he has said to me this past weekend when it happened..check this out....

1. Your my hero
2. You a tough chick, most people would be in the crazy house by now
3. Love you, miss you, never gonna dessert you!!!
4. As long as you want me, I will be here.

Thoughts ??

Hi Tina,
You know, I once told my MM that I realized I was just his desert and that I was really looking to be someone's dinner and to have some dinner too. He actually admitted it without shame. He said, 'Yes, but I love desert, you are the sweetest desert in the world and I love you.' He wasn't even embarassed enough by this truth to lie about it and I, lovesick as I was, vulnerable and yes, weak as I was, well, I sat there in shock and began to realize just what kind of nasty trap I'd fallen into. But it's been a very long time since he and I had that discussion and the whole time in between I've just been trying to clear my head, and work up my strength and character to get to the point where I don't need positive affirmation from him so desperately that I can't actually stand on my own. I'm finally standing on my own, but with very shaky legs. So if you feel like you're strong enough to walk away from a situation that you think won't be worth it all in the end, then I'd say run like hell while you still can and don't look back. If you wait too long, you might fall into a pit of misery that will take months or even years to climb back out of. But if you think there's hope for you and your MM and this is what you really want to go for, I will be the last one to judge you negatively for that...I understand that feeling of faith and hope, and a certain kind of fear that keeps those wishes alive.
I hope you're doing all right.
Love, STN

Dear Dali,
just a quick note before i go off to sleep for the night. i often wish for the same thing for all of us too. somehow i feel that whatever we OW are guilty of, we've also paid dearly for it. i hope we all can take ourselves to much better situations soon. in fact, i already feel i'm in one because of friends like you, Corinne, Danielle and all the women here who are honest and brave enough to tell their stories and try to help each other along. i don't know where i'd be without your input and patience for letting me vent the way i do.
lots of love, stn

Daniellejordan,
you're so f***ing right! I'm in the same mood today and couldn't agree more.
We're wasting and devoting our time to men who'll never move on. They have lots of ready-made excuses, there must be a forum somewhere on the web where MMs post and support each others with useful tips on how to deal with the OW, what to say, what to do.... They've probably listed a series of reasons why they need us so much.. and why they can't leave their family. How predictable they are. But the question is, why intelligent, educated women like us are still believing them? Why do we keep thinking that they couldn't live without us? And why should we care if they can't? It's not that they are alone, we should always remember that. If they needed us so much, if they couldn't really live without us, they would be with us, period. They can live without us, they just like to have some fun from time to time, after all we keep telling them how much we love them, we're are anxiously waiting for them to show up, like faithful dogs. We flatter them. So why should they make any decision? We make them happy, they know we are here for them.
And worse, why do we think that we can't live without them? Ladies, as far as I can see here, we're miserable all the time. Our life is governed by them, they fit us into their routine, like a meeting or a dentist appointment. Do we really need that? It's not that they give us much, they won't be here for us should we need them, because they have a demanding family to care about.
Sorry for this rant. Think I'm close to be premenstrual. In any case we all know the truth. It's entirely up to us to decide whether to be miserable or to move on. Unfortunately we do have feelings which make things difficult for us. But we are all disillusioned as well.
Hope you are all ok.
Love
Lillybit

Hi Allison and Danielle,
Thanks ladies. I'm definitely in a pissy mood these days too. I keep having all kinds of dreams that are pissing me off and I definitely want to call my MM just so I could tell him to shut the f-ck up when he tells me he misses me. He had me near him and he wasted our time, big time. Now suddenly I'm more valuable because I'm gone? Fuck that. All the realizations are taking place while I sleep, and they're awful, I see clearly in all of these nightmares the things that have been cloudy in my head for about a year. It's all hitting home now that I'm far away from my situation. The anger is definitely unleashed, lucky for him he's out of my missile range. Anyway, to make a long story short, you're right about the taste of the cake. I mean, if you go around eating nothing all the time, no dinner or whatever, you're going to think that chocolate cake is 100 times better than it is if you manage to find a slice that tastes good to begin with. But if you're like our MM and getting filled up on veggies and meat at home, well, then I guess it would be a lot easier to take or leave your chocolate cake whenever you feel like it. The only time they might scramble and struggle for the cake is if they think that they might not be able to have it anymore. That probably doesn't match your thoughts exactly Allison, but in the end, all this stuff we're saying to each other is true. We OW are getting some pretty paltry meals. I think I'm going to have to change my name to PMS for the next couple of days. I am so pissed off and my self for falling into this situation and not doing a better job of getting out of it. I'm trying my best, but as you can see, some days are still torture and I haven't got the energy to fight it at the moment. And all this anger you're seeing from me, well, at the root of it all I'm just hurt and sad. Whenever I think about it all, I wish I had something nearby to kick.
Lots of love, stn

Hello to all, all my friends here, STN, Dali, DanielleJordan, Jamie, Lillybit, and Allison. I’ve seen all the new posts lately. Wow, if only we could harness the energy from all the anger and disgust from all this emotion.

Allison, it seems like you are on the right path to happiness, it takes time and may be a bumpy road from time to time, but love and happiness seem to be waiting for you at the end of that road. You’ve made that first leap, one that was the toughest, it will take time to work all the details of dissolving things with your husband out, but it will calm down in time. I like the idea of your MM squirming a little, let him squirm for you, enjoy your independence. Just remember, protect your heart.

Dali, you’ve come to a beautiful calm with your relationship. You are trying to move forward and I know how difficult that can be and will be, but it is what is best for your heart. It is true like you say, once we move away from them we become the apple of their eyes. He may realize you are the love of his life and move towards a future with you now that you’ve made him see you can move on without him. You just don’t know, you do know he loves you. Time will tell. Stay strong.

Lillybit, what has been happening with you and your MM. Last we posted together you were going to meet with him, your last post reveals you are so fed up and...well....pissed off. I do hope you are ok.

DanielleJordan, God I loved your comment of "have a tall glass of shut the f**k up", that made me laugh. All the comments you mentioned are so true "I'm so unhappy" "she's unappreciative of me, inconsiderate, has no passion" Blah Blah Blah. After they say that to us, back with them its probably "I'm so in love with you, I never want to lose this, we'll grow old together". WHATEVER. So, can give my MM a glass of that. Thanks for making me laugh.

Jamie, I hope you are well, I miss you. Please let us know how things are going. I do love you.

STN, you know it all. We are in this together and will get through it together.

As for me, I'm holding on. My MM put me through days of no communications and it nearly destroyed me again, our good friend STN helped me through it. He called over the weekend and we talked some but more and more I can see I mean just one thing to him, nothing but sex. His cake, his corner piece, and the coffee afterwards. Virtually, I'm Starbucks, he stops by from time to time, drops a load and goes back to his life and his home cooked meal complete with candles, music, the soup, salad and main dish..HER. He called me again today, just briefly, (just to keep me hanging on I suppose) and for some reason I find myself sounding and feeling desperate from the moment he says hello. All the strength seems to fall apart and I'm grasping at words to "keep" him interested. What my head wants to say is I'm done, stay away from me, forget we have a child together and lets move on. He said he'll call me later..I don't think I should hold my breath. He'd actually told me (yep, told me)a while back to tell my family and friends I'm in love with someone and have to go, not revealing of course who that someone is or where I was even going, and yet he won't tell her the same..why? I'm a nieve 40 year old little girl who fell in love with this man when I was a young girl and I'd believe anything he told me, losing all sense and sensibility. I'm his puppet. Do I feel guilty about her, no, actually I was in his life first but the timing was off for us and after his first marriage desolved (not as a result of me in any way) we were at a place in our lives that made it impossible to be together, she was only the next best thing, my sloppy seconds. There are no other kids to be hurt in our situation. The problem is, she won, she has him, has his last name and I'm still out in the cold with soggy cake and cold coffee. Misserable and soaking wet, so even though she doesn't even know I exist, she gets the last laugh. I guess my last laugh will be, she's stuck with him, I'm not.

For those wives who’ve posted with their harsh realities. I’m sorry you’ve been hurt, and not knowing your circumstances, it’s hard for me, or any of us, to offer any clear thoughts. You must realize every situation is different and there are two sides to every story. The women on this site did not force themselves on anyone and often fought the advances of the man as long as they could. It is the MAN who stepped out of bounds and went too far, pushed too hard. As for my situation, I have his child, but I kept that child from him to protect him, to not be the reason to come between he and his first wife. That may have been a mistake, and I believe I really hurt him in the long run as a result. I told him recently only because now seemed like the right time, he told me he loved me, wanted a life with me, has always loved me, made me believe all those things, he lied. Again, I was wrong and I’ll pay for that for the rest of my life, fortunately our child will never know of him, will never be hurt by him. So you can see we, the OW , hurt too and are constantly hurt by these men who have taken advantage of us in our most vulnerable times. Our circumstances are just as difficult, if not more, and not created to hurt you or anyone else.

Be well my friends and keep posting. For you wives, I’m sure there is another supportive site for you to go to with friends as wonderful as these ladies have been to me for your circumstance. You really don’t belong here, we are not your sounding board, that is not the purpose of this site and WE are not the ones that hurt YOU. I do hope you find peace and happiness, I hope we all do.

Much love,
Corinne
xoxoxo

Hey STN, Lillybit, and all the other ladies. I got this off of a message board. A male shared his reason for cheating and it matched exactly with what a lot of us say and what our MM say as well about the breakdown of marital relationships.

So here's one of the questions that constantly gets asked around the social circles and message boards. Seems as if somebody finally decided to drop the science on this issue so many women seem to wonder about. Let's hope it helps bring a level of understanding to the issue. This is in no way meant to be an excuse for the actions some of us partake in so let's not start another flamewar here. I'd also really love to hear the female's perspective on why some women cheat (in another thread). Read on.

Q: (Female X) Just wondering why do men get into a relationship with a woman knowing that you are going to be creeping around? Why not just keep it casual and let it be known to the woman that you are not together? Some of you actually have the audacity to get married and STILL cheat. The point of getting married is to finally settle down with one person. Now if you know that you still want to play games and not settle down then someone please explain to me why ya'll men do that shit? If you want to cheat on a female why not cut the her loose and do your thing with the other female you want? Lots of you male cheaters talk about it like it's something to praise. I personally just never understood the logic behind it especially from grown ass men. Explain!

A: (Male X) This is a single truth that will cover a question that has many answers. Many men and women refuse to acknowledge and understand their differences. When a man gets married, he looks at the relationship up to that point and says "This a woman I could spend the rest of my life with." He looks back and sees the fun and the excitement that they had while dating. He thinks that it will continue. When he considers his options, he knows that, ultimately, his woman wants the security of marriage. Not necessarily what he wants, but something he is willing to give to her out of love. So, in proposing, a man is giving his woman a great gift, his freedom. But he does so under the thought that their relationship will not change and marriage is just a contract of commitment. Most men, when they cheat, see the dynamics of their relationship change. Many women marry men for love, also a great deal, for potential. They set out hoping that their men will conform to their expectations. Many women think that they can change the true nature of their man. Men hope that what it is about their woman that led them to marriage doesn't change. Both are wrong to an extent. For example, many women will be the perfect sex partner, the perfect friend, but for many different reasons, they tend to let that passion for their man drop off. Be it work or children or any other external forces that cause them to be distracted from what should always be first and primary, their man. They start to take things for granted, saying to themselves "I can deal with him later" or "now that I'm married, I don't have to do the things that caused him to make the decision to marry me". They don't realize that men look at this and say to themselves, "what the hell happened? I thought I had the woman of my dreams and now it's like I'm married to a different person". Now the conditions that lead a man to commit no longer exist. Now he is looking for the stress-free passion, love and excitement that no longer is in his relationship. People don't realize that there will always be changes in their relationship and they have to be able to discuss them openly and honestly, without fear of rejection, and be able to compromise to each person's satisfaction.

Many times, by the time we've come to this conclusion, we've accumulated possessions and property, and most often, children. That prevents a man from being able to make a clean break. Divorce will never benefit the man, so that's no an option. Then one day,he meets a woman who reminds him of the time when his life and relationship was less complicated. He becomes attracted to her and now he has a decision to make. Morally, cheating is wrong because you made a commitment to your woman, before the eyes of God. But men will see it as his woman misrepresented herself when they were dating and now everything changed. The decision we made to get married was based on false information! Since divorce isn't a viable option (whether it be love, finances, children or religion), men will seek fulfillment through an affair.

Now I will admit that this thought doesn't fit all situations, but I bet many will.

Hi ladies,
I've been reading around the internet a lot lately and have found tons of interesting information about what men want, how to keep a man after you've got him and why they cheat. Basically it all boils down to this: men love women who make them feel good, that's the bottom line, that's the foundation of every other interaction, but it gets tricky to maintain their respect if you don't know the other facts: after this basic truth, it seems that most men prefer women who act like ladies in the front room and their bitches in the bedroom (sorry for the vulgarity, but I can see the truth in this) and they fight for women who make them live up to standards of respect and never ever appear too needy and insecure, never give too much of themselves, never lose themselves in the kind of lovesickness that some of us here have. And we women have to be clever enough to make sure that romantic love and sex stay joined in a man's mind, because if given the chance, he'll often just reduce the woman to a part-time sex object because he can. And if the woman wants a man to face the un-fun realities of maintaining a relationship, well, she's still got to be smart enough to find a way of doing that that keeps him feeling good...otherwise we turn into the 'nags', the ones who bring them down from their selfish teenage desire to always feel like things are uncomplicated, fun and exciting for them. It turns out that we women are just supposed to praise anything that they do if we like it, and not talk directly about the crappy stuff. All the sites I've read suggest that this is the magical formula for getting a man to behave better. HA! Now I really am pissed.

Is it me, or does it really start to look like there's a lot of truth to the old saying that 'it's a man's world.' ? I mean, what powers do we women possess against a situation like this??! I think the powers used to be called feminine wiles and believe me, I'm ready to learn them and start using them since I can accept now that in dealing with men is like dealing with an alien species. I only wish my grandmother were still alive to teach them to me, my mom knew nothing about them and worked against them as far as I can tell, she after all came of age during the sexual revolution. She thought she could afford to throw all of that ancient wisdom away, as if suddenly men had changed just because we women were finally allowed some freedoms after millennia of being forced to stay at home?! No, if you ask me, the face of the world might have changed with the sexual revolution, but the brains underneath it have all been hardwired since time began to keep relationships between the sexes just as we're finding them still. Danielle, your post from the internet was right, men and women are coming at this from very different directions and perspectives. I think the best chance we have is to recognize this and to learn what will work for us in these situations we get into with men and then decide whether or not it's worth it all in the end.

love, stn

Hello ladies!
DanielleJordan, the reply of that man seems very realistic indeed. I guess this is what happens to most marriages. But this doesn't justify the cheating. So, what he says is basically true, their wives let them down for some reason or another (and they probably let their wives down as well) and it's also true that women want to get married more than men do. They are seeking a settlement. But while women are aware that their relationship will somehow change due to routine, children etc., men aren't. Or if they are, they refuse to acknowledge that. But what this man failed to say is that they get used to the security a marriage and a family offers. They realize that the passionate woman they married has simply turned into a wife and so they look for that passion somewhere else. What this man didn't say is that they will never leave their families, but not because of financial problems, children etc., but because they still want to stay in their marriage. My MM said that he loves his wife in that quietly respectful used-to-each-other way.
Let's face things once forever: many people get divorced, it's not uncommon. If they don't get a divorce it's because they don't want to. If their wives divorced them, they would accept it. Men don't make any decision, they let things happen. The best scenario for them is to have both the family and the lover. If the lover dumps them, well they will soon find a replacement, it's just a matter of time. Basically, aside from a very few cases, we will never be able to get more than we have now.
Corinne, what you say is true. I feel angry these days, I'm premenstrual. I still love my MM, but I'm also so fed up to be the last thing in his life. This week we won't probably see each other, too many things for him to do, work mainly because he needs the money to pay the mortgage of the house he bought with his beloved wife. So there is no time for me, unless I meet him for a couple of hours miles away from here. Of course he's sorry. So as you can see, there are so many things that come first. And right now I don't feel like seeing him this week. I might change my mind of course.
As for you, I hope you'll find the courage (and sooner or later you will) to tell him exactly what you think. In the meantime, if I were you, I wouldn't mention to my family that I love another man. According to him, you should tell your family you're madly in love with another man (but without revealing his name of course), pack your things, and reach him wherever he is. It goes without saying that he won't do the same with his wife. You could regret it forever. Corinne what I really hope for you is that one day this spell you're under will definitely break, allowing you to see how mean this man is.
STN, we're both premenstrual these days and as angry as ever. We should take advantage of this situation and tell our MMs to go to hell once forever.
Allison, you're the proof of what I've always thought and said: it's us women who make the most difficult decisions. You divorced your husband because you felt your relationship was over. This is the difference between us and men: a man would have never done that! You're very brave and I wish you all the best.
Talk to you all very soon.
You all take care
Lots of love
Lillybit

Hello ladies,
I’m so looking forward to the time I can muster up the anger and disgust in my MM to finally once and for all turn away from this awful situation. Although all the horrible things he’s done and said far outweigh the beautiful, it is the beautiful that my mind and heart strings keep holding on to.

I’m making small steps. Last week he tormented me by saying “I’ll call you back in 30 minutes” and then waiting 4 days to call back, so this week I imagine I’m going to go through the same thing. We spoke literally for only 3 minutes yesterday, he called me quickly “just to say hello”. Of course I got “call you later if I can” and later never came. So, will “later” be 4 more days? Likely so. What I’m going to try to do is NOT call his number so my number comes up on the ID as “out of area” (because that is what I usually do and he knows its me). Maybe he’ll wonder why I haven’t done it. Maybe he won’t care, but it’s a small step for me. Really why should I call it, to maybe have her answer or the typical no answer, what good does that do me. None at all, there is no point.

We never talk during our old usual afternoon time anymore, is she home early or has he found someone else to screw. It isn’t like he hasn’t done that before so I wouldn’t put that past him. Unfortunately, I still love this man, I don’t think I’ll ever be able to let go of that, maybe some day I can put it away though. I’m tired of being his Starbucks.

You ladies are my inspiration, your strength to move on and leave these bums to the poor souls they call their beloved wives is amazing. You lift me up, maybe some day I’ll be free of this sorrow.

I love you all!
Much Love
Corinne
xoxo

Hey STN, Lilybit, Corinne, Dali & Jamie:

The MM response is kinda vague don't you think ? I mean ya I can see why they strayed but I want the beef. I want to know how they felt during the relationship, I want to know what happened when they actually fell in love with us ?
Every situation is different, every MM's reasons to be with us are different.

Let me try to describe the MM thought process....

- I'm Lonely
- I'm attracted to another woman (that's us)
- I'm horny
- I'm satisfied
- I want more
- I feel guilty but I want more
NOW IT GOES 1 OF 2 WAYS:

1) I am falling in love with her, I miss her OR
2) I feel empowered, she wants me, I can have her when I want her, I deserve this.

#1 is very rare, but when it happens like in Jamies case, there can be hope.

I think what us OW always forget, we can't make them love us they way we love them that's because we didn't need them at first, they needed us.
They can and are able to switch us on and off. BUT know this we let them.

Also know that real love isn't planned or forced, guilt keeps them married, not love..everytime your with your MM, a piece of you is left in the love he once had. Sooner or later they crack.

In my case I see the egg starting to crack. Slowly bit by bit, he loves me more and more, he is addicted to me, my strength and my weakness.
But you see I am getting stronger day by day with my new life, my love for him is being tested same with my patience.

Love you all Allison xoxoxo

That's totally right Allison. Situation #1 (that they love us) is rare and it only comes if we don't fall into the trap of letting #2 happen. We gotta keep them on their toes, they want us to, they force us to. Anyway, my nightmares are continuing, I'm about to go insane from the anger. I don't want to keep the anger, but I don't know where to put it to get rid of it. I think eventually this part of the healing process will pass and I'll be more balanced again, where I see the situation more for what it was, right now I'm just seeing the negative. Hope you're all doing well, and I'm glad things are looking up for you Allison!!! And Corinne, you go girl. Just a little bit longer and the week will have passed without you being the one calling him. I think the reason your MM called you yesterday was just to make sure you're still on his leash. That's all he needs to know then he hangs up. My MM is like that with me, he just needs to know that I email him, he doesn't actually pay attention to what I've written, it's all about them making sure they've got us where they want us. Hang in there, you're doing so great!
lots of love, stn

Too general Al.

Guilt might keep them married, but sometimes so can love, need, comfort etc. The key thing is they have the freedom to play two people (or more) off against one another. When someone does that, what does it say about them?

It doesn't really matter that it wasn't you he broke his vows to. The more fundamental point is that it's a lose/lose siuation for everyone, excepting him.

Allison,
what you say is partly true. My MM says he loves me and I believe him but he'll never leave his family. He's 'loyal' to his wife and committed to his family. I don't think he will ever crack.
I think that we often forget it's men we're dealing with and men are very simple creatures, they are hungry they eat, they are tired they sleep, they have boring wives they get the fun elsewhere. Basically, this is how things work for them. They have needs and they fulfill them. But they are very careful not to give up what they already have both because they hate changes and because they can have it all. While women dissect even the smallest things, analyze details over and over, try to find an answer or a justification to everything, men simply take what they need.
Allison I'm really happy for you, hope your 'egg' will soon crack open!!
Corinne, I see that you're through the usual weekly 'I'll call you later' routine.
At least you don't seem to cry over that any more, you're starting to sound a bit sarcastic about the whole thing. You should be so brave and do the same to him. Next time he calls you, tell him that you are busy and that you'll call him 'later'.
As far as I'm concerned, I still don't know if I feel like seeing him tomorrow. I'm really pissed off and maybe it's better not to, otherwise we'll end up arguing.

Love to you all
Lillybit

Hi Ladies,

I have to say that my MM did crack like an egg emotionally, but his life remains the same. I have a bit of the egg to take with me, because despite it all we were in love, but the rest of the egg is committed to his regular life and is staying right where it's at. It has to. Men can compartmentalize better than we can. When they're with us, that's a compartment. When they're with the wife, that's another compartment. The main thing is that they don't want to mix the compartments and they don't want them to change places because they have it all set up to benefit themselves the most in the end...even if they suffer from getting caught in their own trap. In my book, that's called selfishness. As in love as I am, all the selfishness is looking pretty ugly to me these days.

Lillybit, you sound really strong these days and it sounds like you're not in this misery as deep as some of us, is there a chance you can back out now, while you're feeling strong? I wish I had done the same thing ages before I did it. I'd have suffered a lot less, there was a time when I tried, two times actually, and he pulled me right back in with all that charm and attraction. Good luck with things this weekend, let us know how it goes.

xoxo, stn

hello Girls,

i see a real strength in everyone, that is so so good. it looks positive, and i hope it stayes that way. though i am dating, there is not much excitement. ut its made me a little detached from my MM. there is still sadneess, and hurt but there is also hope...

I do agree that men are simple creatures, and they just go after their needs, and the do not feel guilty. because its a compartment for them. i have discussed this with my MM, and this is exactly what he said. its different with you and her. when i work i shut everything away, when i am with you, its this life i live... so yes in the end its very difficult to understand how they do it.
take care all of you
love
Dali

Hi Pie.

I wonder about you. Why so negative? Critical? Black and white? What happened to you that made you this way? Why are you rejecting people's thoughts and trying to teach or preach, but not sharing your troubles or difficulties?

Here's a story that applies. There's an ant and it's crawled along the ground until it got splattered by some elephant crap that came crashing down from above. And there it struggles, suffocating in all of the elephant crap. And you're clean and clear, but you see it all from the sidelines and want to help. You have some choices, I'll tell you about two of them: you can call over to the ant and explain to him what happened to him, describe the elephant, what it ate and what the crap looked like when it came flying out and why elephants crap to begin with. Then you can shout at the ant, saying that if he knows what's best for him, he should climb right out of the crap he's drowning in. That's one choice for you. Another option is to expose yourself to the crap, go over there and help to drag him out. Yes, it means you'll be covered in crap too, but at least you'd understand his perspective so that you'll know better what will help and what won't. And he'll thank you for risking something and helping, but he won't thank you for offering empty lessons.

I have no idea why I should be accused of negativity, but was prepared for an attack based on OW not liking what I have to say. Ultimately I conclude that affairs will end in tears - but if you have a different experience then good for you.

Whose thoughts have I rejected? What exactly have I tried to preach? Also, have the guts to use your regular pseudonym. Using a new one to try and attack with anonymity is cowardly. ;)

Hello Dali, Who are you dating, someone new or someone you've known? There are so many gorgeous men here in Italy but I have yet to seriously imagine myself going out with one. I guess I'm still stunned by my experience. Every day I'm fighting with myself still, sometimes I think I'd do better if I could have gone to a place where I'm surrounded by old friends instead of this totally new situation. I decided to host a dinner party this week just to try to step in the right direction. I don't think happiness is going to come and find me, I feel like I have to go and search it out in new friendships and activities. Other times I think I just have to look within and learn how to be happy when I'm alone again. That way I won't go into any new relationships with too many strong 'needs' for anything or anyone, I'll be in much better position to give freely to it without hoping for too much in return. I guess my main idea is that I just don't want to feel needy again, I want to be okay when I'm alone so that no matter what happens, I'll still feel fine. Does that make any sense? That's the direction I'm trying to head in for the time being. I'm glad to hear your dating, even if it's not exciting. I think over time you'll be happy that you did it. You give me hope. Are you glad you're still in contact with your MM? I remember a while back that things were completely broken off. Do you think it's holding you back in any way to keep talking to him, is it helping?
Love, STN

dear STN,

the dating process started with few no gos, yes i am in touch with MM and i think its better, because i am facing the feelings about forgeting him, at the same time i am not so lonely. i talk to my new friends, these are all new people who i met through a secure dating site. so its the new discovery which is interesting.
my MM knows all this, i tell him all this. and now he seems to be understanding some of the pain i went through. esp. now when he has to wait when i go on a date, afraid that i might find someone more attaractive. at the same time he says i wuld be happy if you found someone nice. so it is a simultaneous process. i wound suggest you do the same. do not get into a relationship, just go out. see other people. my first two dates were terrible, they guys were careless, one was very late... did not gel. best is to go for a coffee followed by movie, that way you avoid the dinner. it can get quite boring if you do not like the guy. i guess you know all this, but just reminding you. it also makes me feel more comfident of myself. so forget the staying alone for a while, and see someone, flirt a little. but do not let it get serious for the next 3 months.
actually keeping in touch is helping, because i see that he really is changing. and for him, it is making him realise what love and loss are all about. with men as we had spoken, they compartment it. so it would have been easy to shut this one and look away. by this i force him to see the reality. the fears i have about meeting other people, the wall which is around, because of losing my love. all those things have made him very sensitive. so after sometime i hope to get to the good friend point again.
so dear STN, enjoy the italian men over a cup of coffee :-)

love to everyone, Corinne hope you are doing good.

dali

Dear Dali, Thank you for the insight. I like your observation that by not cutting contact you're forcing him to face the reality of the situation and not shut it away in a little compartment. I like that a lot. It's true that they ought to get some insight, I'm really glad that your MM is getting some. Mine called today, but I didn't answer the phone, I was at work and my boss needed my attention for something that was getting released right away and I simply could not answer. Now I have the dilemma of whether or not I want to call back, and if so, when. On top of that, I had a big dinner party at my place, 14 people, so there was no chance to even think of calling. I'm doing a lot of thinking these days, sometimes way too much - it's making me feel strange in a bad way. I'm doing my best to get into life again, but I feel as if I'm an alien among regular people, especially couples. I hope this feeling will pass. It was wondeful to have my house so full of people tonight though, that helped a lot. I imagine it's how he feels, always a full house to go home to, so no time to worry about the silly woman who fell in love with him. That's what I fear anyway, that he just doesn't care anymore. My anger is gone and the sense of loss has returned. Good luck with the dates, I'm really proud of you, you're doing such a good job getting back into your life.
Love as always, stn

Hello Ladies,

Has anyone heard from Corinne lately on email? I know she's been in contact with some of us on email and I've been hearing from here almost every week day for a while now, except that I haven't heard anything for about 3 days and I'm starting to worry that's something's happened. Corinne, are you out there, are you okay?

Love, stn

Hello Ladies,

Sorry if I worried anyone, Corinne's fine, just out because of a bad cold. Dali, I took your suggestion and started looking around on-line for men to date here. Oh my goodness...these guys seem like such players. I don't think I can make myself do it. But you're right, I need to start meeting more men. I'm just so hurt still that I feel I'm lost and I can't believe that I've gone from being with the love of my life to looking for an on-line dating service, on which some men have screen names like 'your love toy'. It's so gross and it only makes me feel more certain that I'll never meet someone I can love again. It's making me feel sick inside.

xoxo, STN

Hi Ladies,

I wanted to write because I'm not in a bad and sad mood for a change. I'm sorry if I've been bringing anyone down while I've been in my slump lately. It's been a tough time making this adjustment to my new life and I think PMS really kills me. Anyway, I'm in a better frame of mind today than I have been for such a long time. I wrote to Corinne on email to describe what brought about the shift in me and I know it's kind of watery and long winded (as I can be), but I just wanted to paste it in here in case it could help anyone who's also struggling. So here's what happened, more or less: Last night I was so tired. I haven't been sleeping well for several days, for no particular reason, just the usual stresses from this awful situation. Anyway, I took a hot bath, washed my hair, listened to music, made myself a cup of tea, took a big warm blanket and wrapped myself up, and settled in with a good movie for the night. It was only 7pm by the time I was in bed! I sat there and was reading something while letting the movie play (I've seen the movie 1000 times anyway). But as I was reading, I was thinking certain thoughts over and over again. I'd start by remembering the pain this relationship with my MM caused me, then I'd struggle with thoughts about how I could 'fix' it or battle against it all and 'win' the power struggle, and then, little by little my mind kept returning to the same thought: just forgive him, forgive all the people who've hurt you including yourself, forgive everything, LET IT ALL GO, have some faith that goodness will prevail and stop feeding the ugly situation with your energies, just let it all go, concentrate on feeling good for just this little while and remember that no one will be by your side forever except yourself, no one is or ever will be yours to keep forever, everything and everyone in life comes and goes including me, so take good care of yourself while you can and learn to love the times when you're alone, time alone is a liberation from all the desperate struggles in life, but still love people because you're connected to everyone, everyone struggles like you do with their issues and needs affection, but don't need people or cling to them to fill that hole in your heart, fill that hole up with love and respect for yourself and with the love you have for others, nothing is missing inside of you, all you have to do is pay attention to and appreciate what's already there, see how good your heart is and look for the goodness in others around you. That's enough.' Those were the thoughts that prevailed and in the end, I went to sleep and slept well. I didn't want or need anything anymore, I was fine just as I was. And when I got up, I still felt good. I fed my pet, did some yoga for a half an hour, fought off dark thoughts that were trying to creep in with lighter ones, felt so much better and then went in and made bacon, an egg with hat on it (I think some people call this dish an 'egg in a hole', but I grew up calling it egg with a hat on it), fresh squeezed orange juice and a nice cup of coffee with sugar and cream, just the way I like it and it was all perfect, just as it was. After I finished eating all that I was still feeling better. I have more faith all the time, just faith that doing the right things over and over again might not help me right away, but over time they're going to add up and make my life feel whole again. Since I've almost completely destroyed my life, I have a unique chance to re-build it from the ground up, to build good habits into it, to let people into it in a wiser way than I did before, I have this chance to make a habit of being good to other people and to myself. I look around me and see that all the good things in my life all came to me because of something good I've done in the past, some kindness I've shown towards another, some sacrifice I've made, some love I've given to someone who needed it, some loyalty I never gave up on, some altruistic behavior, some respect I've shown for others and myself ... all the good things in my life are linked to exactly these kinds of things and nothing else. All the pain I'm feeling, well, I can easily see how it's linked to my selfish, needy, greedy, competitive, vindictive, indulgent, and extreme behavior. I'm giving all those things up for good, as much as I possibly can, because I want my life to be filled with beautiful things, beautiful people and I can see now that there's no reason it can't be this way. The only thing that's been getting in the way of beauty in my life is ME, the badness I've been allowing into my life and my needy attachment to the things and people I believed I wanted. It seems now, in this rare, clear moment, that all of what I've wanted from my MM has been bad for me. Losing myself in that love ruined me. I decided that I should love him, but from a safe place, not a place that compromises all that's good in my life and the respect I have for myself. I should love him in a way that doesn't hurt him too. I can't keep letting him abuse himself and his life with my help. Forgiving him and myself and all the people who've been playing games with our love takes the pain away, like magic. The pain goes away immediately, I swear. And instead of being filled with that sense of loss, abuse and betrayal I'm filled with a kind of relief, a gentle grief and remorse for all the things that I contributed to our pain, and a feeling that I'm right where I need to be now, that the future will be okay and that I'm liberated from the torment.

So that's all for now. Thank you to all of you for holding my hand through this disaster that's been going on for so long. I hope I don't slip back into misery again. I'm just going to keep trying to stay on the right path. I told Corinne that I'm not really a conventionally religious person, but I see in this moment that all I need to feel okay are acceptance, forgiveness, love and faith in the good in myself and in others. I suppose that almost all religions teach that, but apparently it's something I had to learn on my own. It's been hell! If I start writing depressing thoughts again around PMS time, please just remind me of these things. I hope everyone's doing all right.

Love, STN

Ladies,

Get out of the situation. Period.

To the person who thinks we should all just get out, period. You may be right, depending on the situation, but if it were that simple, I think most of us would have done it by now. We all know that we don't like the situations we've been in. The point is that most of us have some kind of block preventing us from or at least making it as hard as hell for us to break away. We're clinging to these relationships for our own reasons. So we're here on the website working on figuring out what our blocks are and then working on getting the blocks out of the way. Okay? And from my perspective, I don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water if you know what I mean. I don't want to cut out the good with the bad. I want to make the most of the good and the least of the bad. So I'm not going to completely cut and run, but I am cutting out all of the selfish, indulgent behavior that's been keeping me and my MM down. I've loved my MM and he's loved me, the only thing I want to change is how I deal with that fact. He may not have treated me well, but he's already regretting that, and it's very clear to me now that the problems were a product of the situation which was always flawed, and I want to live with the knowledge that I did the best I could. For me this means giving a chance for something positive to come from the love we've had for each other. I no longer want a 'relationship' with him in the usual sense of the word, but I would like to live the rest of my life knowing that we didn't destroy every good feeling that ever existed between us. Honestly, I don't know if my MM is up to that, he might be of the cut and run sort, he hates emotional pain and at the end of the day he is really a needy emotional coward, but I'm finally strong enough again to be able to live with whatever happens. What's most important to me from now on is how I handle things on my end and again, this for me means making the most of the good and the least of the bad. -STN

Hello to all my Friends,
I’m sorry if I worried anyone in my absence. Things continue to be a roller coaster ride with my MM. STN has been a tremendous help during some of my darkest hours over the last few weeks. I’ve made some poor decisions lately and haven’t completely been able to stick to my guns when it comes to not calling him back. Unfortunately I can’t say the loving kind man I knew over spring and summer last year has come back. Since just after new years when “she” came back he’s been cold, distant, neglectful and hurtful to me. Just when I’m ready to say that’s it I’m done, he’ll say something sweet and loving and beg me to be there with him or come see him, of course still never offering to meet me half way, all risk and expense has to be mine.

Recently I’m afraid he’s realized something, he’s realized that if I do come there to be with him it may not be possible to keep me hidden away as his little “fun” secret for a while. There are people in our lives that will not be quiet about our “relationship” and I think he’s realized that he can’t keep me as his little sex slave and have a loving “normal” life with her at the same time. All this makes clear to me he didn’t ever love me at all in the first place, nor does he care about our daughter, but that doesn’t make it any easier. I feel lost in the feeling that I’ll never feel him, touch him, or love him again. I’ve been in love with this man for 20 years, I know no other way to feel and the loss is unbearable.

I’m trying to be strong and realize he was never mine and it was terribly wrong of me to assume he ever was. So how do I stop loving him.

I hope you all are well. Dali, I hope dating becomes easier and you are doing well. Jamie and Lillybit I miss hearing from you, hope you are ok..you too Allison. Where is everyone? STN, you are my strength, thank you!

I love you all!
Corinne
xoxo

Hi everybody!
I'm here again, in my worst mood so I apologize in advance if I sound cantankerous, argumentative and nasty.
Corinne, it's good to hear from you again. But I'm sorry you're still so down. What do you mean when you say that your MM has realized he can't hide you? Wow, what a genius he is, what plans did he have? To seclude you somewhere? Does he know that we no longer live in the Middle Ages? Unfortunately you're still in love for someone who has changed over the last year (or more simply he pretended for a while, now that his wife is back to him, he doesn't need to stage the role of the caring loving man anymore). But of course he has to prove that you're still at his feet, probably his wife he's giving him hard times, probably she is not so adoring, and the poor thing needs to reassert his power. And there you are, soothing and caring and telling him how much you love and miss him. You're just playing his game.I know it's hard to realize that someone you love so much doesn't return your love, but you're going through too much pain and humiliation and i know that sooner or later you'll say that enough is enough.
STN, I'm glad you're feeling better and trying to make things work out for you. Since you are out there again, let me provide you with some useful tips on how to handle Italian men. First of all, most of them are commitment-phobics, so never mention marriage, children, long lasting relationships or they will be gone in a blink of an eye. Some of them suffer from severe forgetfulness attacks, they completely forget they are married or engaged until after sex... a few minutes after that, they will suddenly miraculously remember that they have a wife/fiancée/girlfriend who's waiting for them at home. But the man you absolutely have to avoid is the only son of a widow or potential widow. This man is worse than any MMs because he won't leave his mum until death does them apart. And of course his mother will do whatever she can to keep his son close to her. Italian mothers are particularly good at blackmailing their sons. Mark my words, always ask about his family and if he tells you he's living with his mother, steer clear of him, even if he has the looks of George Clooney. I'm talking out of experience because I've spent seven years with a man belonging to the above category and who is now back to mummy. If I were you, I would just have fun now, I would not invest much.
I know what you all may think reading my words, 'this woman is hopeless, first she spends seven years of her life with a man who's still tied to his mother's apron strings and then she throws herself into another useless relationship with a MM. When I come to think of that, I can't do anything but laugh out loud at myself. For the record, aside from their "little" defects (mum and wife) they are very nice man, one a very very successful economist, who cared and still cares about me and the other a man I could easily live with, were the situation different.
Dali, I'm glad you keep on dating. I agree when you say that sharing your experience with your MM forces him out of his 'compartments', still I have some doubts. Yes it's true that now he is the one who suffers from the situation. But this won't do any good to you. First because in your heart of hearts you hope that this will push him to make up his mind and leave his wife and family, and I'm afraid you are in for a disappointment. Second, because keeping in touch with him and constantly thinking of him will prevent you from really finding someone nice. Even if you met Mr. Perfect, you wouldn't see him because your mind is still set on your MM. I may be wrong here of course, but if I were you I wouldn't update him. He knows you're dating and that's enough. He's aware that you're looking for someone. Hope my words don't upset you.
As for me, it's the usual ups and downs, and given the situation it goes without saying that downs happen more frequently than ups. What it's really hard to take are these constant humiliations, because in protecting his beloved wife he doesn't seem to realize he hurts me very badly. He's 'honest' to me, he understands that sometimes he can be off-putting but the choice is between being insincere and off-putting. A hard choice, he loathes to treat me as his second best but what can he do? Yesterday he asked me what would I do if I were in his shoes and I can't wait to tell him what would I do.
I'm sorry if this post is a bit nasty, but it's good to know that at least there is someone who can understand what my feelings are.
Thanks for listening and hope to hear from you soon.
Dali, DanielleJordan, STN and Corinne and all the other ladies, keep in touch.
Love
Lillybit

Ladies,

Misery feeds misery.

Joy feeds joy.

Always know the end of the road. Then you know where you are headed.

When the journey is hell, and the destination lonely- should you walk the path?

Corinne- 18 years, and never met the man? You are addicted to having someone call you and talk to you. Get out in the world. Do church/ charity/ social work. Lose his number. Really erase from all your records. Change your mobile/ home/ office phones. That would take the MM off your brain. He is just using you.

Cut your losses.

STN- Loving is not a sin. You are taking this so well! If you love someone hope/ pray/ do the best that you can for the person. And getting him off his family, as you haven't done, may not be the best, unless that is what he wants.

Good Luck All!

Hello Lillybit,
I don't think you are ranting at all, I think you are expressing what we are all feeling and going through and the beauty is we can all lean on eachother and understand what we are going through without any judgement or critisism at all. It is wonderful to hear from you again!

To answer your question, yes my MM wants me to stay hidden and available to f**k him any time and in any way possible. He's said things like "I'll see you whenever I can, you'll be alone for a while, I don't know how long". He also told me he wants to "give me" his baby, however, I'm not to say anything about it. I said that would be to complicated for him right now and his exact words were "it won't be if you don't say anything". I know, you are wondering what it is I love about this arrogent selfish bastard. What I love is the man I thought he was and I keep waiting for that man to appear again. I'm afraid he's lost. Unfortunately my heart still loves him. He doesn't care at all that I already have a child of his, why would I have another for him to ignore.

To make things worse now, his wife is sick and it may be very serious (maybe that's why she came back). After he told me, I told him I shouldn't come there, I have no business there if she needs him. He got angry with me and said that has nothing to do with us or me and I'm just looking for another excuse not to be there. I feel aweful that I almost feel jealous of the attention she's now getting, it makes me an aweful miserable person (so for all you cynical people reading this please do not shout back with what a bitch I am, I'm fully aware of it).

As for your situation, your MM loves you, that is so obvious. He simply doesn't know what to do with himself. You are a beautiful strong woman, I don't think it will take him long to figure it out.

Now you have listened to my ranting. Again, thank you!

Dali, Danielle Jordan, Jamie, STN & Allison, I pray you are all well and peaceful. I love all of you ladies, always remember that!

Much love
Corinne

Hi Ladies,
I just wanted to tell you that after some seriously bad moments here and there, I'm doing a lot better right now. Today I got a decent night's sleep (the best thing for me I think), did my yoga, made myself eat well enough, did my work, made myself take care of some things I'd rather have avoided and then ended up going out to a fun party where I got to dress up and be gorgeous and just be a part of normal life for a while. I drank gin and tonics and had a blast. My phone rang several times today and for some reason, I couldn't hear who it was who was calling me. Of course my hopes went immediately to my MM, I wished so much that it was him until I finally kicked myself and remembered that I'm not waiting around for calls that never come anymore. I'm not his puppy dogy anymore. I'm not waiting to see or hear or find anything from him anywhere. If he wants to step up to the plate and treat me well, then great. But seriously, I told myself to just appreciate whoever it was that called me when I figured out who it was because THAT PERSON, unlike my MM, actually cares about me enough to check in on me. It turned out to be a friend of mine who was calling me to go to that party. I was so glad I went and I'm not looking back. I am forcing myself to hope for NOTHING from my MM, because he just disappoints me too often. It's so much better to just appreciate what good people I do have in my life and if my MM wants to behave decently, then I'll be sure to appreciate that too,but I'm sure as hell not sitting around holding my breath while I wait for the phone to ring and for it to be him. Anyway, I'm in a good frame of mind again and just wanted to write you all and let you know that once you can bring yourself to accept the situation you're in, to stop wanting to change it or fix it, or worse, waiting for him to change -and once you decide to let go of all your hopes about your MM and set them free like a hundred thousand balloons into the sky, well, you really will feel better. I think it's a combination of realizing the situation for what it is and also finally getting so sick of getting the scraps of your MM's life that will help you set all of your hopes free and just learn to appreciate whatever other good things there are in your life, to like things just as they are instead of how you wish they could be. Anyway, getting into a normal life again will help you, even if it feels like you're totally lost and alone at first. There are still times when I feel absolutely horrible (thank you Corinne for being there for me in those awful moments lately), but the number of good moments is increasing day by day. I'm able to keep my positive mood longer and longer, so long as I remember to keep up my energy and to not get too tired. Okay, I'm ranting, but I did want to let you all know that there's hope for feeling better once you find a way to decide how to deal with your situation and to go for it. I think it's the clinging to illusions and the indecision that kills us, along with the psychological toll that always being last in the lives of the men we love takes. Even if they can't help making us last, it still damages us to be last when we put them first. I think this is what eventually made me so weak that I couldn't get out. Little by little it wore away at my sense of self-worth without me even realizing it until it was too late. Accepting second rate treatment can really destroy a person. I can tell you that I've never been so weak in my life as I was when I was letting my MM run the show. And anyway, they just don't respect us when we don't respect ourselves enough to maintain emotional control over ourselves and the situations we're in. From there, once they realize they can get us for a cheap price, well, everything just spirals downward. It's like we're selling them 24K diamonds for 25 cents a kilo. Okay, I am ranting and ranting, sorry ladies. Thanks again for being patient with me and lillybit, I think it's good to get angry about your situation, it can help you. You really should be upset about things because you're just not getting what you need from your relationship to feel okay, that much is clear even if a lot of the rest isn't. Being angry is probably better than sitting around feeling sad and weak, at least the anger can push you to take on the challenge of what you're dealing with.
Love as always, STN

Of course I've met the man, we had a 2 year very passionate affair that was 18 years ago and left me with a beautiful child. I haven't seen him in that time because he moved away and we live in different parts of the country, but we've always kept contact. Its far more complicated then to just simply cut my losses and believe me I get out and am involved in plenty.

I do however recognize he is using me for pure erotic stimulation and should I move to be near him (at his begging and pleading, even threatening) I'd only be turning myself into his sex slave, dirty little secret. He doesn't care at all about me in any way, even that I had his child. So I have thrown out the white flag with an incredibly broken heart because he led me to believe so many wonderful things that all turned out to be lies, nothing but lies. He dragged me down this path of hell with his lies, believe me I wouldn't have gone willingly had I known he's a monster.

Corinne

what is wrong with all of you so called women. Don't you see that your affairs never work out, you destroyed so many lives in your path of destruction and selfishness. Lets hear from one affair that has ended in bliss!

I just want to add some support to what Corinne is saying. These MM are so good in the beginning. The charm and charisma, at least in my situation, was almost impossible to resist. And I think my MM was sincere. It's just that when reality started creeping into the situation, he had no idea how to handle it. Men can be very immature about what it takes to make a relationship work, what the necessary ingredients are. They like the fun parts and don't often tend to want the responsibility parts. So I can see how Corinne's affair started out as a passionate, captivating romantic thing and turned into what it is. It's hard to lead a man to emotional maturity even when you're in a committed relationship with him, let alone if you don't even have a basic commitment. And I'm sorry to say it so plainly, but it really does seem to me that women are lightyears ahead of men about knowing what the basic ingredients of a good relationship are (even if sometimes we really suck at creating a situation for them to thrive in -I'm mainly thinking of myself here). Anyway, it's been my experience that when I fell, I fell hard, it took me a long time to figure out just where I had fallen, it took me a very long time to recognize the pit of misery for what it was. After I recognized it, it was so very difficult to climb back out of it. I looked for anything I could grab ahold of to help me get myself out. Mostly I was just grasping at air. It wasn't until I tried love and forgiveness alongside acceptance and insisting on respect for myself and for his situation that I found the way out. I had to be willing to let go of everything that I thought was making my life worth living. I can't tell you how difficult that was. I'm utterly exhausted from it. I know we all wish for Corinne to be out of this abusive situation and I can see she wants it for herself, but it's so hard to know which way to turn when you're in that pit of misery with hope, fear, hurt, anxiety, addiction and desperation swirling around in your head all the time. But thank you for the positive words, it's very kind of you to want what's best for us. STN

If you want to see the relationships that work check previous posts from Jamie and Allison. They actually do work. I also should add that my MM's wife was at one time his "other woman" as well, yet another one that worked sorta speak, however that one isn't working now I suppose. Perhaps if the wives are interested in keeping their man they should try compassion, appreciation, passion and understanding, then he wouldn't stray and convince an unsuspecting caring woman how much he needs them, wants them even loves them.

We are REAL women and I find your "so called woman" comment insulting. The path of destruction was created by the men that stray not the women they take advantage of. My path of destruction has only me on it, I've destroyed no lives or inconvenienced anyone but myself.

Bottom line:
Men cheat for the same reason dogs lick themselves, because they can.

Don't judge a person or situation until you know all the facts and circumstances. If you aren't willing to be open minded, you don't belong here!

Corinne

neither has posted in awhile, you live in never never land, you all boost your own egos to justify what you do. you are a bunch of losers!!!!!!!!!!!!!! have no respect for other people, people like you make others sick. selfish, selfish selfish period.

you are all disgusting.

To the person who's asking what's wrong with us and tellin us how selfish we are I have to ask you a question: if even you don't know what's wrong with us, in all of your superior wisdom, how can you presume to judge us? How can you be sure we're guilty of selfishness if you don't really know what's motivating us or 'what's wrong with us'? Maybe selfish needs are an aspect of our problems, but that's not really enough of a label to do justice to the complex nature of the problems we face and by the way, the problems WE are paying for the most. Anyway, let's not get nasty with each other here, it's not helpful.

Realization is a step prior to healing.

Do you think you can sue him for child support? At least think about it. (No I am not a practicing lawyer!). That should make him take notice of you- as a capable individual- and then all his thoughts of making you something (sex slave) that you are not will disappear so fast, he wouldn't know what hit him.

Believe me he does this to you 'coz he knows he has a 'control' over you. You are a self respecting person, bringing up a child.

Think of the child- whose father is a degrading, third rate, weak individual- who uses the very persons he professes to have loved.

Does he acknowledges the child or support him or at least tries to support him? And he wants to give you another child as he knows then he will have control over you for another 20 years! This person is very sure that if he wants to use you for his nefarious thoughts/ actions, 'he needs to give something back to you and that you would be happy and around if he gave you another chaild'. In his convulated mind this is a fair exchange!

Belive me, 18 years are enough to change anyone- and this person has surely changed! Ask him to e mail you his latest pictures- and see the difference from the man you fell in love with 20 years back!

BE STRONG!!

Very well said Corinne!
I agree with every word my friend Corinne wrote here.
Who do you think you are? We are not "so called women", on the contrary, if there is a so called woman, that's you.
If you had read the posts, and apparently you didn't bother to, you would have found out that none of us has destroyed families or lives either because they were already ruined or because they still are going on. As Corinne said, we are the only ones who have their life destroyed. And we are fighting to get it back, supporting each other and providing each other with understanding, compassion, friendship and advice.
And if your husband is cheating on you, just try to find out why he's doing that instead of wasting your time insulting us.
In the case of my MM, his wife has denied him intimacy for years. Nevertheless he's very careful not to hurt her and not to let her know about me. I'm the one who's paying, I'm the one who comes after everything. He's there and always will be. The poor thing doesn't even remotely suspect that her husband is in love with another woman. If I were in her shoes, this would be one of the few certainties of my life. Because, dear cheated wife, you have your faults as well. Has it ever occurred to you that the responsibility of not "destroying" a family lies on you in the first place? That's up to you to keep your relationship alive? You blame the so called women, but it's not us, it's your relationship that is over, no longer working. With or without another woman.
And one more thing, why all these women who come here and insult us, never sign themselves??
Lillybit

PS: Wish all the girls here a good week-end. Love to you all

Hi Ladies,
I just wanted to say hi to all of the OW here since the invasion of the angry wives seems to be sabotaging our regular conversations. Anyway, it sounds like you/we OW are doing pretty well lately. Corinne is a lot stronger and getting stronger all the time (we talk on email and there's a world of difference between her latest emails and her first ones).
Lillybit, what are you going to do? Have you decided to keep your situation the way it is? How are you doing? You cracked me up with your stories of Italian men being momma's boys. It's so true. And even if I ended up marrying one, I bet he'd compare everything I did to the way his 'mother used to do it' our entire lives!:) Oh well, Italian men are so damn gorgeous it just might be worth it. I did meet someone I liked the other day, but I don't feel like he's free, he's really nice to me and I caught him watching me, but he didn't make any efforts to make a stronger connection. In fact, he became really shy after inititally being quite friendly. My sense is that he's taken and/or gay, but it feels so good to actually find someone I think is attractive, it amazes me and I don't even care if he's taken or not...am just happy to have met an attractive person. Makes me feel like there might be more like him where he came from. I usually have a really hard time finding men I could actually consider going out with. I'm so turned off by the usual mouth-breathing, going dutch, dirty clothes wearing, macho, player types that I so often meet. Yuck and no thanks.
Dali, what's up with you these days? I'm anxious for an update from you.
Danielle, I know from email that you're moving ahead in a strong and solid way, as usual. That's what I love and admire about you! It's from you that I learned that the only way to really get these MM to treat us well is to stop letting them treat us badly...and that's it! I'm just not standing for the second rate treatment anymore. Enough was enough. Thank you.
And I feel good these days. I think the main thing for me is to keep my energy up and to keep meeting new people. Sometimes I isolate myself and don't get enough sleep, that pretty much kills me. So I'm doing what I can to not allow that behavior. I recently got some glowing praise at work, which made my day and I met some really lovely people the other night, really strong (but not at all masculine or bitchy) women who work in the field that I work in (which is really a MAN's WORLD and a total snake pit if you ever saw one). It was really great listening to how they handle the pressures they face in life, with work, romantic relationships and family. I realized that having good role models is important, even at my ripe old age (and espeically since I really f-d things up so badly by trying to do them my own way in the first place). I guess that's about it. Hope you're all doing all right. And to you wives, just so you know, we're all as sick of your husbands' cheating, two-timing, two-faced behavior as you are, we're just having to deal with it from a different angle. Trying to harass women here isn't going to make up for whatever your cheating husband did and it's not going to change your situation for the better, so what's the point, to make us feel bad? I've got news for you, if you've not read any of the previous postings, WE ALREADY HAVE BEEN FEELING MISERABLE MOST OF THE TIME, OKAY?! You need to find another place to put your anger.
Lots of love anyway and especially to the regulars, xoxo, STN

you have your life destroyed because you chose to idiot! What do you think a married man thinks, he'll *uck you and go home to his wife no matter what he tells you. that's what makes you so stupid. your mm is just a coward, "careful not to hurt her", get real. Its obvious you're the one taken for the ride no matter how long you think the relationship will last, they don't. The responsibility relies on YOU, WHAT ON EARTH MAKES YOU THINK A MM IS AVAILABLE BECAUSE YOU ARE LONELY AND SELFISH, AND YOU CAN GIVE HIM WHAT HE"S NOT GETTING AT HOME, HE'S GETTING IT FROM BOTH PLACES. my husband cheated once and i knew all about it, but at the same we also had a great sex life aand are still together after 24 years, his girlfriend was pissed because she found out he was cheating on her with his WIFE (me). GET REAL, GET A LIFE. If you had any brains to get your life back you would tell them to *uck off, but you're just too weak and insecure.

hi girls,

sorry for not coming on line, the work load is increasing, my MM was visiting me so it was quite cramped. we had a week together after a long time. and it is really moving towards the platonic for me. i do love him, but it is changing in form. the passion is quite, and i am accepting the fact more and more so is my body. we went to a resort on the weekend and that too was good, but not erotic. so that is very positive.
Lilybit i agree with you that at some point i will have to give 'us' a break and come back as only friends. i think i will do it sometime in september. reason being i am going home for a month, and it could be enough distraction. but it does help, that i can tell you, to see other men, or just go out. but its a very difficult process. i have put on weight now, before i had lost... but i will do this, at my pace for myself :-)
Corinne, my dear, as harsh as it may sound, but losing his no. will be a good idea. really. how do we know what he really means, well by his actions, but what he does for you, and you alone, without any benefit for him. try this, tell him you are in a financial fix, and you need 1000$ right away... what would be his answer? tell him your husband has hit you and you had to go to the hospital, what would be his answer?
my dear you are addicted to this because i your mind you think this is the best you have, because of what you had with him, and it makes it more believeable because you are in an unhappy relationship with your husband. i personally would like to talk more about you and your husband, because if that gets resolved, i think you will find strength here too.
do write in to still_ira@yahoo.com

STN sorry for not being there for you. you been through a bad patch... it will get better. yes a lot of site have such game players, but just weed then out, some are nice, and remember you are just having a evening, nothing more, its only when you take then home does the problem begin, keep them at arms lenght, it will be fine :-). the players wont even call you back, the next time :-).

take care all of you, may you all find peace and love
dali

Wow, what an intelligent reply. All you can do is insulting. Why are you so frustrated? And if you are so happy, what are you doing here? Don't bother to reply, I won't read your stupid posts anymore. And I suggest to all the friends here to ignore the sermons of these illiterate goats, they are of no use.
So just FADE AWAY. And you know what? maybe your beloved husband is cheating on you right now.... at least we all hope so :)
Bye
Lillybit

Clearly neither Jamie or Allison have posted in a while because they are happy and content in their new relationships, otherwise they would be looking to us, their friends, for compassion and understanding.

Exactly what egos are we boosting, we are hurting and at times desperately sad. If I were boosting our egos I’d be saying what beautiful women we are compared to the miserable bitches these men are, for one reason or another, married to.

To see a loser simply look in the mirror sweetheart, you'll see a loser in your own reflection. Never judge someone or a circumstance you don't even know unless you expected to be judged yourself. Plain and simple...PERIOD! You're an ass.

You don't belong on this site, it is for caring, compassionate, understanding women who have been hurt, manipulated and lied to. The man is the selfish one feeding off one victim after another. PERIOD.

Corinne

Take your funky ass off this board and leave us the hell alone. Go find a wives forum and talk about how your husband is bored to death with your stale pussy and lackluster conversation. We don't owe you bitches anything. FYI: Your husband is the homewrecker! Take that shit up with him.

daniellejordan

To STN, Dali, Lilybit, Corrine: Love you girls!!!

"WHAT ON EARTH MAKES YOU THINK A MM IS AVAILABLE BECAUSE YOU ARE LONELY AND SELFISH, AND YOU CAN GIVE HIM WHAT HE"S NOT GETTING AT HOME, HE'S GETTING IT FROM BOTH PLACES."

You have a hell of a lot of nerve, or you're full of s**t, I'm not sure which. The majority of these MM don't let their "next victim" know they are "unavailable" until after they've manipulated the situation and the unsuspecting woman and it's too late, she's in love. Selfish is the LAST thing we are. Once we realized we are the other woman we then listen to the whining and complaining about "the wife", "she show's no passion, doesn't appreciate me, is emotionally distant, has no compassion or understand, shows no passion" blah blah blah. I'm sure you husbands other woman got an earful of what a miserable bitch he thought or said you were. He certainly didn't walk up to her and say "I'm blissfully happy in my marriage and will never commit to any kind of life to you but hey, you wanna f**k?", and he certainly didn't have a sign on his forehead that said “horny but married”. No my dear, the responsibility was to be on your husband keeping his pants zippered, apparently something was wrong at home or they would have stayed zippered. Like I said, men cheat for the same reason dogs lick themselves, because they can, and they will. Wake up, once a cheat always a cheat, your man will have another if he isn’t keeping the same one, it's a certainty. As for Lillybit, HER man loves her, it is she that won't let him have her, she's a beautiful person and neither selfish or shallow as a quality she has.

Again, stay off this site, you don't belong here, find the jilted wives site and complain there. Good luck with your 24 year marriage, you'll need it for the next 24.

You rock Danielle Jordan, this is why I love you so much! Very well said! God did you make me laugh, I needed that.

Much love to you, and all my friends! Together we stand!
Corinne
xoxoxo

Ladies, Language!

Just ignore those who do not empathise with your situation. They aren't worth the bother.

I do not write a name 'coz its unimportant. Nor do I aim to mock/ belittle you. I am concerned, believe me. Nor am I a wounded wife. I am just someone who happened to find this website and found that so much goes on in the life of a woman who falls in live with a man already taken. I will not try and degrade you by using words like 'other woman' - as if what you have/ had is not real and was not meant to be for you. Who is 'other' here? Nor would I degrade the wife - she is the one who sees her world falling apart too. Or the man- who is torn between 2 worlds that he has created foolishly.

Can you control falling in love? Noone goes about thinking 'let me find a taken man and fall in love with him so that I can tear his world apart'. Or the man, 'Let me find someone who I can fall in love with so that I can make 2 special women in my life unhappy'.

At times what one sees here is raw emotion and at some level it is indeed scary. Question I ask myself is 'How can a man do this to a woman he loves?' Or atleast has loved at some point in time. How can love just evaporate? Is true love not eternal?

Thus, of importance is the situation.

Sometimes we all need to hear the voice of reason- even when ours is so weak that we can no longer recognise it. Lets see if a particular situation is good for all concerned. And then continue with it. Or take other appropriate action. The choice is with everyone.

I know 2 persons who are in similar situations currently (and have had interaction with many over the years). The first one is a friend who has left her husband (marriage was on the rocks anyway). Her two kids now live with her parents and have settled with life/ situation. She says she is happy in her current long distant relationship more (different states) than she had ever been in her marriage. It has lasted 3 years so far and is getting stronger. Gone through the usual - her boyfriend leaving his wife -rather wife walking out and walking back. Trouble at her/ boyfriends home/ office. Now all have settled down. Either she visits the boyfriend's city or the boyfriend does. My friend is content with this arrangement. She is clear she does not wnat to marry the boy friend as her daughter is growing up and will have to be married in a few years time- nor does she feel the need to get married again.

2nd friend is single and in love for 4 years. She hasn't said anything to the guy as she did not want to cause any ripples in the guy's life- she says that she loves him so much that what she wants is the best for him and any encouragement from her would upset that- so there is no relationship. WHat is scary here is that she continues to be in love. She has gone through the entire gambit of jealousy/ hope/ hopelessness/ misery. And still does. Guy hasn't said anything either. Though both know how they feel for each other. And has managed to keep above water. What she has not done is -take any interest in any of the guys she meets and those who are interested in her. She is letting her life pass by. She has had no contact with the guy for a year or so, but her feelings have not diminished. In this case, all are happy - both families/ guy/ wife. But she is miserable as she says that she hasn't felt such strong emotions ever for anyone. And the time has not made her love him any less. She lives to see something of him- his dog/ car-anything so long as it is his. She says that that is what gives a reassurance that he is there somewhere happy. She has not tried to contact him either. I do not understand her. She hasn't taken any action to make herself happy and (possibly) others unhappy- by having a relationship with the guy. She says that she waited a lifetime for someone right and then met someone who is so wrong (married).

Any ideas as to what she should do? I have tried talking to her- but can't seem to find any way out for her. She is truly stuck.

To the nameless person with the two friends:
All I can say is that I can relate well to your second friend's case. She's addicted to the state of 'longing', even if it makes her suffer, it's now part of her identity and without it, she'd suffer the pains of loss.
The only remedy I found that worked for me was to never let go of the love I've felt, but to force myself to put it in a safe place, and NOT let it be the center of my life. I've separated from my MM, the man I've loved more than anyone else in my life, but he's in my heart. And that actually helps me consider having a life without him in it on a day to day basis -because he's really always there, in my heart, right where I put him. And I've completely stopped hoping that he'll be in my life in any other aspect. It did help take some of the suffering away, I feel a lot better, even if I am sad about it.
I'd try to explain things better, but the site's about to go down. Sorry.
xoxo, stn

Hi Ladies!! Spring is almost here...

First off to the wives with the attitude...something is truly wrong with you..why are you looking for a forum like this in the first place. If your day was fufilled I highly doubt you would sit on a computer and search for a forum about women in love with married men...hello get your head checked!!

Even though I haven't posted of late doesn't mean I still come and read.

Here's my update.

In the process of the settlement with my husband, I am writing up the seperation agreement oh joy!

My MM has been amazing, we have reached a new level of love if that is even possible! Since I have officially left my husband, I have brought my MM new courage and determination to his situation. He has admitted to me that he wants out and can't live in the lifestyle he is in..he is trying to figure it all out.
We even talked about finances and how I would go about helping him with the leave when he is ready..I know he is ready in his heart, mental is soon to follow.

He is tired of being in a loveless marriage, where he is a lamp, he is only used when needed. He has been spending a lot of time with his son who is has a emotional disorder, this has been tough on him. He has even told his best friend that he realizes there is no future of happiness with his wife and his only chance of this is with me.

So I basically called him out, he is really trying to figure it out, I can see it. I can feel it..

Time will tell..

In the meantime there is so much going on in my life, I am looking for a new place to live, I am staying with friends currently.

Glad to know you all are staying strong. !! Hang in there..soon the birds will be chirping and so will you.

Love Allison xoxo

Hi Everybody,
I just wanted to say welcome back Allison, your news is really wonderful. I think there's a good lesson in all of us there: basically you're modeling good behavior for your man and he's learning how to be a stronger and braver person just from watching you be strong and brave.
Do you ever have the sense that love and relationships in general can be like a mirror - we see ourselves in the people we love, I mean, whatever we bring out in them is a reflection of who we are and how we're dealing with them? So when I wasn't respecting myself enough to expect a respectable place in my MM's life, well, I got about the same amount of respect from him as I was giving myself, which wasn't nearly enough, if you know what I mean.
Anyway, I just wanted to drop a note to say that I'm still doing well. I haven't gone into that pit of emotional misery since I last wrote, although physically I am still exhausted and shaky from it all. But I feel a lot better and I'm doing exactly what I was hoping I would, just filling my life with lots of healthy, personally profitable activities and habits and building on the good instead of the bad. It takes a lot of effort and discipline, but it really has made me feel a lot better. I don't think I could have done this if I were still living near my MM, it's so good that I got away before I went completely insane. But wait, PMS is coming next week for me, so we'll see how I pass that test. Yikes.
Lots of love to you all, stn

Allison, it is great to hear from you. How wonderful that your love continues to grow and flourish. It is beautiful to hear you so in love and content. It also shows us all there is a light at the end of this long sometimes suffocating tunnel.

Aside from 4 minutes on Saturday, I haven’t heard from my MM in over a week. He told me then he’s working crazy hours and will be for a couple of weeks, meaning he will be busy and won’t be able to call. I had just really expected to hear from him by now. Horrible thoughts are filling my head. He could be just done with me and that was an excuse, it could be he’s working long hours and doesn’t have privacy to call me, it could be something has happened with her, I just don’t know. I know my head and heart are pounding, my palms are sweating, I can’t sleep and want to do nothing but eat chocolate. I don’t understand why he couldn’t have 5 minutes just to say hey, I’m ok and am just busy. I’d never leave him hanging like this. I have no confidence in the relationship, this is my problem. He’s said to many hateful harsh things in the recent past, the bad stuff is easier to believe.

I’m rambling on top of being useless and pathetic. I just feel so lost and alone. I am trying though, I haven’t called his number in over a week so he doesn’t see me on the ID, I’m trying to seem not so desperate to him. If only he knew. I was thinking about how he said he wanted me to move there but that I’d be alone for a while and he didn’t know how long (as I’m waiting for him to leave her, if he ever leaves her), and the more angry I got. I’ve been in love with and waited for this man for 17 and a half years, I’ve waited long enough don’t you think. Just these stupid thoughts running through my brain.

Ladies, I hope you all are well. Allison, I’m so happy for you, your new found independence and your growing love. You keep going girl! Jamie, wherever you are, I do hope you are happy. Lillybit and Danielle Jordan, stay strong. Your men love you that is so obvious, unfortunately at this time that love isn’t enough but no one can foresee the future and what it holds for us, time and patience is on your side. STN, we are getting through this together day by day, your man loves you but circumstances keep it out of your control. Continue to keep the love in your heart, hold off the bad thoughts. You are doing great with the new things you’ve added in your life. I’m so happy for you, and I love you. I love all you ladies, thank you for always giving me strength to continue through the day. My dark time of the afternoon is almost over, the time of day I expect him to call. He hasn’t of course but talking to you all has pulled me through this part of the day.

My love to you all!
Corinne

Hi to you all!!!
just a few lines to tell you that I'm happy you're around. Reading your posts has become a pleasant part of my daily routine and it's good to know that there are friends who know exactly what I'm going through.
STN, you're doing a very good job. I'm sure you'll soon find someone who loves you as you deserve. Loving someone who's already taken and who'll never be with us is such a waste of time and energy. And this brings me to answer your question. I don't know what to do with my MM, some days I think that I should leave him straight away, other days it seems I can't leave without him. I'm not questioning his love, I know he does love me, but it's a wrong love and we're both aware of that. I know I don't have much, but it's better than nothing. At least this is the prevailing thought for now. But I know myself and I know that I won't be accepting this situation forever, sooner or later I'll wake up one morning and feel that I'm done.
Corinne dear, you don't seem to get over your love. As for your MM, it's hard to believe that he's so busy not to find a few minutes to call or text you. If he wanted to, he would find a way to keep in touch. You said that his wife is not well (just like my MM's wife). As far as my MM is concerned, I'm hundred per cent sure he won't leave her and I'm reasonably sure your MM won't do that as well. He just keeps you hanging on. This is a cruel and dangerous game and you have to get out of it. I don't think he wants to be with you, he wants you to be there for him. But I'm sure you already know that.
Allison, I'm happy for you!!! You give us all hope. Not that we're not aware that our situation is different from yours, nevertheless it is somehow reassuring to know that things can work. Wish you all the best!!
DanielleJordan, how are you doing these days? I would love to read more from you. BTW, your reply to that nameless woman is exhilarating, just made me laugh out loud. Hope you are doing fine. And please keep on posting.
One more thing, we are all wonderful persons, (even if someone here thinks we are worthless selfish sluts) we deserve the best. Why don't we try to love ourselves more? We pour our love on men who either don't deserve or need it. What about ourselves? STN is doing the right thing, she loves herself more these days. What about us Corinne? Are we really hopeless?
Love you all girls.
Lillybit

Hello my friends,
It is true what they say, nothing ever ends nicely and I do believe the end is here. It's been almost a week now since I've heard from my MM even though our last conversation ended with him saying "I'll call you tomorrow" and “I love you”. My tomorrow never came.

Like I just wrote to STN, I feel like an alcoholic trying to become sober. When and alcoholic becomes sober they start to face all the horrific reasons that drove them to become drunk in the first place and then are faced with the fork in the road. Become drunk again to forget again or turn and fight through it. I'm at that fork in the road. I've been drunk with dreams and fantasies of my MM for so long I've smothered all the bad truths. I try to remind myself of all the hateful things he's said, like wanting to watch another man f**k me, sometimes more then one man, to have me watch him f**k another woman, begging me to come there and then tell me how I'll be alone for an undetermined amount of time while he's with her for god knows how much longer, just simply pulling me up and down like a yo yo. It has been a nightmarish rollercoaster ride. But still the ugly truth is so hard to face after we shared so many feelings, expressed so much love, made so many plan. I gave him so much of myself and who I am, even told him about the beautiful daughter he and I have and how I was protecting him by keeping that secret from him all these years. I know that was probably not the best thing to do, but it was the only thing I could do then under the circumstances at the time. I think the person I hurt the most is myself. I've loved this man for so long, I really don't know how to go on without loving him, thinking of him daily, wanting him. He's lied and I'm aware of that, he told me he loves me, wants a life with me, wants a family with me. If he cared so much, he would have found even 2 minutes to call in the last week, but he didn't, he doesn't. I just don't understand why I was so easy to throw away like this.

He's with her now, where he wants to be, where he belongs. She may be seriously ill and he needs to take care of her during this trying time of testing, I know that, and I have no place putting myself in his life. She's a young woman and she could either never be able to have children or have an even worse fate. I do pray for her health and happiness. I simply wish he could have said that to me, sure it would have hurt but it would give me closure to move on. This way he's just left me hanging on to a rope of hope waiting to either choose to let go or wait for the rope to break. It isn't fair.

So, I'm letting go and will let myself fall. I know it's the right thing and I know his love was impure but that doesn't mean this crash hurts any less. This is so complicated letting go of this love that has gone of for half my life, accepting the fact that for 17 years I wanted to tell him about our child, waiting for the right moment to tell him and when it came it didn't matter. Turned out the moment wasn't right. I know some day I'll stand up again but right now I want to curl up in the corner of a burning building and give up. Why was I so easy to throw out like the trash to him, why tell me so many beautiful things and thoughts he supposedly had only to disappear.

Anyway, it's done, he's gone. I was born to love him and I'll never be free of him, he'll always be a part of me, and I'll always see him in her, she look exactly like him, and she's an angle on earth, he'll never see that. That in itself is so sad.

You are all my friends and I love you so much for all the support and love you've given me. You definitely lift me up. I'm not ok at the moment, but I suppose some day I will be.

I look forward to see how you are all doing. I may be off for a while, sorting all of this out, you will all be with me. I love you, I'll be back!
Much love
Corinne

Just an observation, but where is your M in your hour of need?

Hi Ladies,

Lillybit, it sounds like your head is still on straight and that you haven't slipped out of emotional control the way Corinne, Danielle and I all did at one point. So please be careful not to lose track of what's most important while you're living in a situation that could do psychological damage (I mean by always accepting last place in his life by necessity). I feel like the kind of damage that situation does is silent and sneaky, it creeps up from behind and suddenly, you don't know what hit you, but you find yourself in its death-grip. Please keep taking extra good care of yourself for as long as you decide to stay in your situation (and I totally get why you'd want to stay in, sometimes a little love is better than nothing, it's true, but sometimes it just comes with way too high a price)
Anyway, I just wanted to write because I feel my PMS setting in and writing here is kind of like whistling in the dark when that happens, it keeps me from freaking out, even if the situation I'm in seems scary.
I'm doing okay, but have had too many thoughts today about what my MM is or isn't thinking, feeling, if he hates me now, if we'll ever talk again, blah blah blah. It's so not worth it, but it's hard to fight at times of low energy. Anyway, I'm still convinced that my feelings are what matter the most now, and I'm doing all I can do to protect them. My feeling is that I'm going to do what I think is right, kind, fair and decent and I'm going to keep loving that idiot in whatever way that doesn't hurt me, him or anyone else. The rest of life is just going to have to fall in line all around me, because I'm just not interested in worrying about everything anymore. I'm glad I have what I have, so glad, and being alone in this period of my life has taught me so much. I realize that I love being away from the torments that relationships bring with them, and I realize that I need to invest first in quality reltaionships and only after that should I start trying to turn the low-quality ones into high quality ones. I just keep reminding myself of what I already know...that I'm so lucky things have gone as they have, despite it all, I've learned a lot about how I want to live my life at an age when I can still turn my life around.
I've been going out a lot at night, just to big events around town where I'm likely to meet at least a few interesting people each time. So far a lot of terribly sad, lonely and slightly creepy men have hit on me and I wasn't feeling it for them at all. But I've been making eyes at a cutie who I keep bumping into. I'm trying to figure out if he's single, gay or otherwise taken...it's still not clear. And he's been really nice to me whenever we've spoken. So we'll see, but I have no hopes up, mainly I just want to enjoy whatever it is I'm doing at the moment I'm doing it and stop obsessing about whether or not I'll be alone for the rest of my life. Learning how to be happy when I'm alone is the best thing I ever did for myself. Today I gave myself highlights in my hair. It's the first time I did it myself (at home) and not only does it look fantastic, but I saved a bundle! I'm really glad to be hanging out in peace, with no one stressing me out or playing on my emotions or trying pull me into a drama or treating me like crap because he knows he can. Even with PMS, I'm still holding my own and that's got me feeling like I did the right thing.
But please don't let me obsess about what my MM is thinking, feeling, etc., tell me to knock it off, I need someone to be stern with me about this, because I do have to live where he works again later this year, and I'm scared to go back there if he hates me, or worse, is indifferent to me now. I know, it's f-d up to feel this way, that's why I need you to set me straight on it. I might listen better to you all than to myself on this particular issue. Just tell me to keep letting it go and forgive him over and over until it sticks. Oh I hate PMS. Does anyone have a good remedy for it? I've never found anything that helps me fight it.
Corinne, I'll be looking for you on email. You hang in there because there's light at the end of this tunnel. What you're getting from your MM and what you actually want are such very different things, so you'll have to be happier once you put an end to the frustration if nothing else. But I know, these dream worlds that we live in are difficult places to leave. Don't lose confidence that you have everything you'll ever need inside of you already in order to face your problems, you just have to remember where your strength is and tap into it as much as you can...which I know you're already trying to do. We're here for you and I'm pretty sure that all of us are so proud of the progress you're making and the strong steps you're taking every day.
All right, that's the end of my epic. Sorry ladies and thank you for all of your patience, concern, support and kindness, I'm so glad to have you all.
Love, Stn

Pie,
my MM is not available for me if I'm in need, he has other to worry and to care about.
Mind my words, it's not that he doesn't care, but he simply can't be with me.
I've always known that, I'm not self-complaining, I'm not that kind of woman and besides I've learned to rely on myself. Over the last year lots of things have changed and friends just turned away for no apparent reason (they don't know about my relationship, I didn't drive them away by crying on their shoulders), probably they are too busy, most of them are married, others are in long-term relationships. This is how life goes and it's not a problem, but I'm aware that I'm on my own.
Your observation is perfectly right and pertinent and believe me there are times when I literally panic if I come to think that I'm alone, but it's not that you can find someone who loves you or takes care of you out of the blue. At least I haven't. Who knows, maybe I will or maybe not. What I really miss are friends, especially those who can listen to you without being judgmental. Very rare to find, even rarer than a loving and caring man.
You're not saying much about yourself recently, so I really hope you're doing ok.
You all take care
Love
Lillybit

Hi Corinne and everyone,

I forgot to mention one thing that helps when I'm feeling really low and tormented by the whole situation. Basically I stop and say to myself, "STN, is anyone actually torturing you right now? NO, no one is ACTIVELY torturing you at this very moment, the only active torture that's going on right now is in your freaking head, and you're the one creating the thoughts, so knock it off!' Sometimes it works and I get on a better mental track. Anyway, the idea is that I realized that my thoughts do so much more damage to me than anything in the real world possibly can. So there's that technique, for whatever it's worth.

Love you, stn

Hi Lillybit,
I often feel the same way, that my loneliness (living thousands of miles away from friends and family and in a totally different culture) is what drove me to need my MM's company. And most of my friends are marrying themselves off and/or are starting to have children and I've felt like everyone's been playing 'musical chairs' and I'm the one left standing. Do you know that game? Basically I'm just saying that I've felt like all my friends have found their places and major distractions in life now and that I'm just sort of out in space, alone. But the truth I've seen about all that lately is that a lot of these friends also feel alone sometimes even when they're in good and bad relationships, even if they say the don't. And the best relationships I've seen are the ones in which both partners are able to stand on their own just fine so that they bring more gifts than needs to the relationship. Anyway, I'm just doing some more whistling in the dark, that's all I've got for now. Hope you're doing all right Lillybit.
Love, Stn

STN- You hang in there- you are the voice of reason that the ladies in this forum need to constantly hear. What you wrote can be applied in varied life situations, not necessarily to a 'not very complete/ socially accepted relationship'. Most of ones fears are self created, some stemming from a deep insecurity- in the present forum it is the relationship issues not going anywhere for most. Loneliness only adds to ones fears. A cure for PMS? Excercise/ fresh air... If you find one- please, please let me know!

Also, thanks for the advice for my friend, that seems like the right thing to do- she says that is what she has done all these years, but says that there is not even a feeble wish for something to work out! She says that she is sane enough not to believe that it ever would, but still... Such a contradiction!! She has reconciled with the reality of the world (or may be not, as she is not the happy person she used to be- she has become silent and withdrawn/ cut off from the world and that worries me at one level, but otherwise she is fairly successful- has thrown herself into work completely and that she says helps her immensely). And any thought of moving away from where she lives is abhorrent to her, as that takes away everything (gentleman in question lives at a stone's throw- and has never tried to contact her either). Such a hopeless situation! I wonder why did this have to happen to her? She has always been so sorted in her mind! A grown woman, who has fought against all odds and reached where she is today. There was a time when she needed support and one of the people who actively led to a situation that damaged her is the very person she says she is in love with. She is constantly finding excuses for the person. That brings me to my next question? Does love exist at all? Or is it just a convenience? I read somewhere today that 'love conquers all'- and wondered?? If her love has stood the test of time (3.5-4years), without any fodder, then is it true love? Then why is it not meant to be? Its not as if the gentleman is her pet obsession- but, whenever she is free, he is one man who fills her empty hours- she says that he is with her all the time, there is not a moment that he is not there with her- she does not have to think about him and she definitely does not have any fantasies about the guy. I do not understand this at all! Why give a mortal this Godly status? What is happening to her at the sub conscious level? She says that when the cares of the world pull her down and she sees something that is this guy's, things work out fine! He is her good luck mascot too!! I am totally confused!!

Ladies- Anything that gnaws at ones self confidence should be fought with a fierce ferocity! Are not each one of us responsible for ourselves/ our well being? If one can't do all that is best for one, no one else will- these are the words of wisdom from my granny to any woman getting married. Point being after being married to the same person for 70+ long years (married when 15), why would she advise this? Hasn't granpa taken care of her? But, can anyone look after oneself as one should? I am not able to articulate this very well. But, may be in her many decades of marriage, even she felt that she had to take care of her own troubles at times? Many times? Time and again? I guess the one thing that marriage provides that a relationship doesn't is the 'knowledge that the spouce is returning home everyday'. Yeah, there are kids, responsibility, mortgage, constant companionship etc etc. All of which a relationship can give too. I am not sure if 'time' is something a wife gets amply. Any relationship be it marriage or the one we discuss here, are like sifting sand. One never knows what happens tomorrow. So, while the relationship is there and brings one happiness, by all means continue. But, the moment it begins to get negative and brings misery, try and get out.

Has anyone read Ayn Rand/ Virtue of Selfishness/ or any other of her works? If only one puts oneself first! Especially very consiously in situations that become self destructive. Everytime I am confronted with an unsavoury real life situation, I want to run away and hide! And there have been so many- as for any normal person. Then from somewhere I have to find the strength to grapple with the situation and find myself on higher ground. I have come to believe that shadow boxing is all one does most of the times.

Hey! Keep writing!

A Friend!!

Hi, I think I'm going to give you a name "FP" (Friendly Person), just so I can direct comments your way, I hope you won't mind. Anyway, I think you're a really good friend to your friends because you obviously try very hard to understand things without judging harshly, and admittedly, these situations are so difficult to understand, even if you're the one involved. I mean, I was asking myself why I would accept such a small place in someone's life and yet be willing to give my whole self to his? Why, why, why?! I guess because I believed he really loved me and I have had such a strong hope of wanting to find the real thing. I found it, I'm sure of it, but the problems that were a product of our situation proved to be too difficult to bear, the wall was just to high to climb and too wide to go around. Anyway, his weaknesses and my own did little to help the situation, really only making things much worse. Okay, I'm rambling, sorry.
What I wanted to write is that I think your friend must have a very big hole in her heart and that she fills it up with love for this man; at this point, if she were to take him out of her life or at least stop giving him a central place in it, she'd be utterly lost, or so it seems to me. That was my experience at least. I've chosen to try to fill that hole up with love for myself and then it becomes natural for me to love others without a big neediness factor. But it's hard because I'm really retraining myself completely. I've been searching so long for someone to fill up that hole in my heart and it's a whole different way of being when you stop searching and start filling up the hole yourself. But I think this will work best for me in the long run becuase first it means I won't be needy, which means no one will be able to take advantage and I won't be in love selfishly, and second I'm so happy when I'm content with myself that it's very easy for me to love pretty much anyone I encounter without worrying too much about the future. At least I'm easily able to connect with the good in them whenever I'm in the right frame of mind. But I have to say, I still have my moments of low energy and then I slip into panic and negativity mode. So it's a battle within myself almost all the time to keep my mind in the place/thoughts where I want it to be. And I do miss my MM. I hate being on bad terms with him. I want to call him and set things right, make sure he's all right, etc., but I made an agreement with myself to just let it all be for a while longer. We'll see.
Okay, I guess that's about it for now. I wish I had some sound advice for you friend, but if she's putting this much of an effort and value on this man she loves with such a low return, I think that the source of her wounds/that hole in heart must be fairly well hidden from her, it's hard to say how aware she would be of how profound her emotional injuries are or their sources. There's probably a lot of fear involved, fear in facing how she feels, down deep, without this man factored into the picture. I feel sure that she is very lonely inside, although I may be wrong. Maybe one good thing to do would be to constantly tell her what you like and appreciate about her, because there's probably low self-esteem operating fundamentally, otherwise she wouldn't be so willing to give her life over this way to a man who's much more a part of her imagination/thoughts than her actual life. I defintely don't mean that in a harsh way, it's just what my own experience suggests to me, and I could be completely wrong about her situation. I'll be interested to know how things progress with your friend.
Best wishes, Stn

Dear FP,
Please forgive me for focusing a bit much on your question, it's just that I'm trying to do anything I can these days to keep my mind from dwelling on my pains. By the way, I can finally say that I am no longer in love with my MM, I just love him and that's a different thing altogether...it's a much better place to be given our circumstances. Anyway, I just had one more thought about your friend which may seem obvious, but I thought I'd say it anyway: by not expecting anything from this man, she's not risking anything. She's scared of a relationship that she's actually going to be involved in, so by keeping this relationship with her man only in her head, she has total control. Again, I think it goes back to a deep wound or wounds and some terribly sad fears. She wants and needs love in her life, but this is the only way she feels safe enough to get it, and the sad thing is that she's not really being loved. I'm glad you're a good friend to her, it sounds like she really needs someone like you in her life.
Stn

Hi Ladies

First off Corinne, I am so PROUD of you WOW, I knew you would get there, hang in it gets better everyday, your probably feeling numb that's a good sign.

STN, girl everything you are doing is so real, you are feeling again and focusing on you, that is so great, we forget and get wrapped up in our MM's lives that we often forget about us and why they were attracted to us in the first place. Find yourself, be yourself, love yourself, you will get noticed by who you want to notice you. Visualize this, it will happen.

OK NOW FOR ME....well I am going to tell you ladies straight up what happened..
Me & MM work together, different departments, recently alot of people left the company and his workload tripled, he already had a massive load, he has been with the company 20 plus years so everyone relies on him. Of course this added stress and the emotional issues he is having with his 5 year old has cause some major negative in his workplace. He never takes vacation..SOOOOOOOOOOO......

2 weeks ago, we spent a whole hookey day together. It was great, the next day at work, he came running over to me to show me a horoscope (so not like him) that read, your are holding back something show your hand...so I go ok ?
He says..I need a vacation, I say I know..then he says I am going to Florida with my kids FOR 2 WEEKS!! HOLY CRAP...I was stunned. My entire vision was him and his wife and the kids strolling down the beach..what had happened ?
We had so much progress..it felt like everything was moving ahead and now had stopped and fricken went back a million steps..

After I calmed down. He went into great detail about how this was for him, to spend time with his kids, not her or her mother-inlaw which he hates. He continued to tell me how much he loves me and going away from me won't change that, he needs time away from here, not me..he wants a life with me, a future, etc..everything I wanted to hear, but I didn't believe. The only reason he didn't want to go was because of me..but mentally needed it cause of work.
And how the time away will really confirm his love for me...ya right...tanning all day I can see how he'll be missing me...

Anyways it's DAY 4..since he left he emailed me sunday and yesterday...nothing today. Don't worry I am so NOT emailing him and if he does email...well I am just busy...

I think I will be on here alot to try and get all the way to Day 14, I have a feeling I am going to be a different person when he gets back. I can't help it.

Hey Allison, that does suck!!!! Oh my gosh. You know, even if what he says is true, that it's about him and the kids and not the wife, nothing changes the fact that you're out in orbit, alone, around the planet that is his life, a life with a wife and kids and social connections in it. That just plain hurts, no matter what his feelings are about the trip. I hope things get smoother again soon for you, I don't like to see us in these positions.
I am trying sooooo f-ing hard to keep myself together. I freak out too much when I start wondering how HE'S doing and forget to ask myself 'STN, how the heck are you?!' I really don't know how his feelings and opinions graduallu came to take on more importance than my own, but that is sure as hell what happened. It's so wrong, it was so subtle as it happened, slowly I lost myself, gave up my opinions in order to keep the peace, lowered my standards to avoid making the situation impossible to live with...it was as if there was no other choice, and yet there was, I just wasn't strong enough to go in any other direction. It's really hard to rebuild my life while I'm in this totally foreign city, I mean, it's not like I can hope to keep too many friends from here, the sands are shifting really fast around here, people coming and going from my life almost daily. So yeah, the only refuge I'm finding is in myself, taking good care of myself and learning to value myself again. I just can't believe how I came to stop doing that, I just can't believe it. The good news is that all of this learning to take some refuge in myself is going to be a skill that lasts me my whole life, because you know, it's all between me and myself in the end. But don't worry, I'm not thinking about isolating myself, I just mean that I need to have a strong base (my own self-worth) to operate from in the world from now on, and not lean so hard on other people to get through the tough times. And I did meet a guy here, he's super cute and seems really nice so far, and he did make a move, which shocked me because I thought he was going to be too shy to do that. But we haven't gone out yet, he didn't take things that far, he just showed up at a place where he knew I'd be and told me that he came because he thought he would find me there. It was sweet actually. We'll see. It's nice to know that I can still be appreciated by the super cute ones, even after this hellish year has left me feeling like a puddle run over by a steamroller.
Well, write all you feel like writing Allison, I'll be here working my way through rebuilding my life while you're working your way through his vacation time. I think you're doing great, no matter what. I love your messages, they always seem full of energy and make me smile, even when the news isn't so great. But I think things will be fine for you. I do.
Lots of love, Stn

I don't havemcuh to directly contribute to this topic. my interest comes because i think i fell in love with a married man a while ago. it was very painful but i came through it, and so will you.

hello Girls,

Allison, that is a difficult time, with your spirit you will get through it. and yes it does change you, and it should.
have been through those myself, the weekends are the most difficult. my MM would call every day but still it does not help. it hurts.
take care of your self, stay with friends it helps ease the pain.

dali

Hi ladies.
first of all, thanks STN, your words are always soothing and so very true. I take refuge in myself too, sometimes I think that I should be open to other people and experiences but I simply can't for now. But you're really doing fine, because you're trying hard and you're growing stronger each passing day. Focusing on yourself is the right thing to do, forget what he's supposed to do or think. You are building a very good relationship with yourself and, as you said, this will last forever.
Allison, how much I understand you!! It's so bad knowing that he's having a holiday with his family and probably a good time. My MM always keep saying that I should be happy if he has a good time but this is bullshit. And very irritating. I would be happy if he had a good time with me, I couldn't care less if he has a good time with others. Am I selfish?
I've been through this so many times and even if I don't have the faintest expectations, nevertheless it hurts and hurts a lot.
Especially when he doesn't seem to work out a way to spend a couple of days with me.
Also, I know what you mean when you say that you have changed. That is familiar too. I'm just wondering how much you can take before you decide that enough is enough. I'm not saying that your MM has changed his mind or that he doesn't love you as much as you thought, I'm thinking out loud. I spent a day with my MM last week, he miraculously could find a whole day for me! And things didn't go bad, only he brought up that family of his and his situation one time too many. It's so humiliating being reminded all the time that other people are much more important than you and to have to listen to his wife's phone calls and to the lies he tells her. THIS has changed my attitude and somehow started the detaching process. During dinner he asked me what would I do if I were in his shoes. Would I leave my family for him? So I told him what I think, i.e. that I wouldn't leave someone for someone else, I would leave a situation that doesn't make me happy, regardless of another relationship.
Of course he's not unhappy with his family, on the contrary he's always very careful not to trample on his wife's feelings in spite of mine.
This is what makes me say ENOUGH. What about my feelings? What about me?
I'm not going to leave him tomorrow or next week. I want a painless procedure, I think I owe that to myself and I'm going to do him a big favor as well.
STN I'm premenstrual too!! Maybe next week I'll be chirping in love again. The thing is that I know that things could work between us, he's so right for me. And I'm furious with myself because I keep doing the same mistakes over and over.
Corinne darling, how are you doing? Did you hear from your MM or he still doesn't find the time for a phone call? I hope you are ok.
And to the long number woman, I hope I will get out of this situation asap, it's good to know that other women could make it, included you.
Love to you all
Lillybit

Thanks STN, Dali and Lilybit for the support.

Here is my update: I have NOT emailed him, he has to me then I respond.

Trust me after a couple glasses of red wine I feel like typing a quick note that would say...ya when you get back I am taking off to Bahamas for 4 days to "clear my head"..hey it's not that I am spending time with anyone and don't worry I will miss you like crazy..when I am all drunk in hot bikini picking up some american lads!! GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since he had left sat, he emailed me sunday, monday and yesterday.
He has his blackberry with him so he can. In every note he says that he is missing me huge and loves me.

I have resolved to myself...many glasses of wine and long drives to work, when he does come back all refreshed, as much as I want to ask..so have you made up your damm mind ? I am not.

I will ask one simple question.................................................

Do you have anything you want to tell me ?

Based on this answer will be my next journey.

I love you all...

Allison,
two weeks are a very long time. I understand how angry you are. When my MM is vacationing with that f...ing family of his, I can hardly text him. I'm angry too, I keep thinking of this situation, his sick wife.. his life, which is not so bad... I don't want to sound pessimistic (I had a couple of glasses of red wine myself) but looks like your MM is very tied to his children and if one of them has problems,things are even more difficult. His guilt is your worst enemy now. I'm not saying he doesn't love you, he does but as far as I know, if he has to choose between you and his children... well you know who the loser will be. Please don't hate me for saying that, hope I'm wrong but somehow your situation is not very different from mine and in my case there's no way out. Well actually there's one big difference: your MM wants to live and start a new life with you, whereas mine has never told me that and never will. So you have good chances, only be aware that his children will always come first.
Allison I'm with you... hope you'll feel better soon and try not to email him... I know I shouldn't say that, but it's a little satisfaction to spoil his otherwise perfect holidays... if he loves you he'll be very upset. Not politically correct but hell with that.. all this goody goody attitude doesn't pay and sometimes is better being wicked. At least for yourself. And if you have the chance, just take that holiday.. and see what happens.
Love again
Lillybit

Yes ladies!
I've had enough. Can't take any more.
My MM and I were meant to meet today, but guess what? He just called me to cancel. His poor wife is so depressed he can't leave her alone tonight, he has to support her and let her know how much he loves her, that she's not alone in that. He's sorry and disappointed but he can't see me.
Now, I understand that his wife's illness and depression are more important but for fuck's sake (sorry) what about my feelings? What if I am sick and depressed? Why the whole world seems to disregard my feelings? So I'm afraid I've reached the bottom. I might be selfish but from now on I'll come first.
Yes he made it a point to always be honest to me, imagine that! Easy to be honest with me, easy to clean his conscience at least with me. Easy to hurt my feelings.
Enough. I hope to stick to my guns this time.
Thanks for listening.
Love
Lillybit

PS: Corinne it's a long time I don't read anything from you, are you ok? Hope so.

Hi Allison,
I think your inclinations are right on the mark. I mean, the best thing you can do is let him suffer something for this behavior. It's the best way for him to learn that it's not acceptable to you, that you won't take a back seat to his life without making it work against him. Letting him feel the sting of his own actions is important, he needs to know that you won't suffer too much for him. I made the mistake of accepting all kinds of crap, thinking it was keeping the peace between us, which it was in a way, but in the end, it just gave him the signal to keep giving me less and less of what I wanted and to take more and more of what he wanted from the situation. If I had to do it all over again, I'd have drawn some hard lines for him in a very gentle way from the start. That would have at least kept things from spiraling out of control the way they have. Let him know just what you think of this vacation of his, but take some advice a friend of mine gave to me, which seems to work in all kinds of relationships: the best way to drive a hard point home is to do it gently and effectively. I'm not saying be wimpy, I just mean that by not blowing up at him, but still sending him the clear message, it allows him to come to terms with you without having to deal with the added difficultuy of a mending the damage of a complete blowout and then coming to terms. You can get him to feel your stinger without clubbing him over the head with it. Casually mentioning that you might be going off to do some thinking and then saying goodbye in a casual but ominous way before you do is the kind of thing I have in mind. This advice came too late to help me with my situation, but I think it really is good advice. Still, there's always the direct, ultimatum route too. Whatever you decide to do, keep us posted. I'm wishing you lots of luck. Love, Stn

Thanks Lilybit and I think your 150% correct about the kids. I mean there ways 2 major parts why he went. Work stress and kids and honestly being away from me for 2 weeeks, well anything can happen. The wife might of all sudden have a spark again, then what is he to do? He swore up and down over and over that wouldn't happen and that he wouldn't risk doing that to lose me..how the hell would I know ?
But you see he is a creature of habit, pleasing everyone not himself.
I keep meeting men who have kids and are having affairs because they aren't ready to leave the marriage, the don't want to upset the kids.

Anyways last night I went to a gala and had one too many glasses of wine, 230 in the morning I wrote him. I had to tell him how I was feeling..I broke down.

I doubt he will respond because quite honestly it was really deep, you could sense my frustration and emotional let down I was feeling.

Either way it's how I felt and he should know, what he does with that information is up to him. I promise no more emails.! I guess I should of just waited until he came back to tell him face to face but for whatever reason it had to be last night.

Why is it when we say how we feel we feel shitty afterwords, I guess we worry that what we say might end it...but yet again if it does it was going to anyway.

Well I can honestly say week 1 will end with a bang..what's next ?

You go girl..be selfish, hell we never are..are we ?
We are selfless and our love is always unconditional, well it's not fair.
In your gut you know what's right, like me last nite by emailing my "no hope for us" email..LOL...oh wells what is done is done.
And if your DONE then be DONE!

May I ask what is wrong with your MM's wife ? Is she depressed or very ill..

My MM wife is on antidepressants, there is a history of mental problems on her side of the family.

Hey Lillybit,

This situation that you're describing, even if he makes up and you suddenly come under his spell again and find a way to stay in the situation, well, the same problem will keep coming up again and again because this is how the relationship between you, him and his wife is designed. I don't want to say something harsh, I just want to support your current decision to get out on the basis of the fact that these men treat us as their lowest priority because we've agreed to it by allowing the relationship in the first place...even if we didn't fully get that that's how it would be when things got started (at least I didn't get anything, I was completely blind to the problem). It's just the ugly way it has to work, so long as they're married and you're the secret. And it's ugliest for you, not his wife (if she never finds out) or him (having his cake and eating it too). It's so unfair, and you deserve better. We all do. But it's not always so great out in the world on our own, which is why we ended up in these situations to begin with. So it's a judgment call I guess. I hope that you're happy with your decision, I think it's the best thing you can do for yourself, but if you suddenly find yourself going back, well, you won't be the first one on this website to have done that, so don't feel bad. It's really hard and I'm sorry you've been hurt.
Lots of love, Stn

Hi Lillybit,
By the way, I just wanted to let you know I got the same bull sh*t from my MM about how I should be happy if he's out having fun with others, enjoying a vacation or whatever. And of course, when I was out and having fun without him, he'd pout and try to make me feel bad. They're spoiled little boys, let's face it, with a whole world of double standards to keep their spoiled lifestlye exactly the way it is, convincing us to love them at our own expense. We don't have to accept their double standards if we don't want to and we don't have to have to take the scraps of their lives if we don't need these men. The problem, for me at least, was in the needing. After a while I just couldn't bear to live without him, it was really an addiction that kept me in that situation for too long. At least now I know I'm capable of such a thing, I never knew that before, what a surprise, seriously. I hope you're doing all right.
Love, STN

Hi STN and Allison!!
STN you're right, they want us to accept their standards. It's either that or nothing.
And we don't need to accept them, we don't need these men in the first place.
I've been thinking for a long time about my relationship with my MM and even if I knew from the beginning it would have brought me nowhere (and I was utterly right), I've accepted it because I felt and still feel lonely, I needed and need love and affection (who doesn't?) and thought he could provide them. Not that he didn't or doesn't... only it's not what I need. And yes, probably I've become addicted to him, because he does make me feel good, when things work out. I think the same is true for you as well. For all of us.
The point is that we always have to face reality, they have a wife, a family and even if they boast they're not happy with their wife, they won't leave her either. The reasons are always the same, children, money, affection, habit.. whatever. We know the rigmarole don't we? We've been told over and over that they love us, they would love to stay with us... but... There always seems to be a "but". So we end up accepting their situation, living with it, being constantly confronted with it.
My dear STN, you've made the right decision getting out of it and I hope I'll soon be following you. Being with someone who can't be with us only makes us feel worse and lonelier if possible.
Allison, thanks for the support. I hope you're fine. One week has gone, just a few days and he will be back. Hopefully ready to make up his mind.
My MM's wife suffers from some genetic disorder, something between multiple sclerosis and parkinson. It's a serious condition which will probably lead her to a wheelchair. Hence the depression. I don't blame him for taking care of her, not at all, I'd do the same if I were in his shoes. But you see, this makes me feel even lonelier. I can't help to ask myself what would happen if something like that happened to me. The answer is... that nobody would take care of me. This is what is really hurting me, being aware that he wouldn't be with me, that I couldn't rely on him (or anybody else) if I needed to. Of course I'm not blaming him for my situation!!! It's not his fault if I failed here. But nevertheless, knowing that my time with him depends on his wife's mood and condition is too much.
As you can see, being with him is out of the question and the time we can spend together is slimming down by the day. That's why I'm done. Allison I hope things will work out fine for you, but please don't stop meeting other men ... and should you find someone you think you might like, well give him a chance and please don't feel guilty because of that. It's worthless. Your MM is not feeling guilty because he's vacationing with his wife. He felt he needed a holiday and he took it.. without asking your opinion or considering your feelings. And what could you do? Accept it, because you had no other choice.
I'm sorry, I'm upset and I'm saying unpleasant things and your situation is so different from mine ... only be prepared for the worst :-))
Joking of course.
I'm going to end this long rant with a nice poem by Dorothy Parker:

By the time you swear you're his
Shivering and sighing,
And he swears his passion is
Infinite, undying -
Lady, make a note of this:
One of you is lying.

So true uh?
Love you all girls
Lillybit

Hi Lillybit and ladies in general,
Thanks for the poem, it's great, I loved it. My MM swore he'd never leave me. I look back on our time together and that moment stands out as the single moment when I first knew I really loved him. So this weekend I found out what that promise of his was worth. I had and am still having serious problem and have had to turn to a friend for a loan until my situation can get cleared up, which may or may not happen quickly. In the meantime, where is my MM? He's sitting with his family and friends, sleeping comfortably at home with his wife while I sweat it out here where I am, totally alone and afraid. The serious problem i'm facing was partly caused by the fact that I was living in the dreamworld with my MM and not dealing with certain ugly realities that needed my attention. Anyway, he's at his home pouting and hurt because I haven't contacted him lately.
The truth is, no matter what your connection is to someone, you just never know who's going to help you in a crisis until the crisis arrives. I've had the 'love of my life' and my family let me down and ended up being able to count on the kindness of a friend and a couple of near strangers. Life seems so harsh at a time like this, but the truth is that I created this situation by not dealing with my problems and chosing to hide myself away in my dreamworld. It's awful and I'm in big trouble and I have no one to blame but myself. I'm so glad I've had help from these friends, but it's barely enough to easy my situation. Know this before it's too late for you ladies, there's no substitute for looking after yourself as best you can. Please be careful!
Lots of love, Stn

Hey Lilybit

How strange is this, it's Day 10, and the last time I heard from him was an email friday afternoon.
Guess what..I don't even fricken care if he emails me this week.

He did ask me about my feelings of his going on vacation and if I came out and said no, he probably would still have gone.
His email absence just reinforces to me that I have NO control, NONE over him.
I just happen to be like the weather and element for his return.
He will expect me to be all happy and excited when in reality I will probably call in sick on monday just to avoid him..ha ha how surreal is that ?

I had a feeling I would change and with the new month and a new moon, I have.
Gone goes the hold your breath and wish on that star, well the star has exploded leaving me here with no hope. Great you love me, but like a postcard I am just a view, a memory with words.

Enough is enough. Your right he is with his family, his wife. I get this horrible feeling that they have re-united..so be it. And in the end maybe that's what he needed, to be alone with her and the kids for 2 weeks to get that "lovin feeling" back. I am prepared for the end, I am prepared for the loss.

How can I be so sad, I never had him in the first place.
If he decides to email so be it, no response will be from me.

Love Allison

Hi ladies.
STN, I'm sorry to hear you're in trouble, I've just emailed you on yahoo. So let me know if I can help you.
Most of times I have the same feelings of loneliness and fear. Financial problems don't help either. I know that because I'm constantly worried about money, it's so f...ing hard to make ends meet, especially with a job like mine. And things are very slow now. I'm seriously considering to move elsewhere and make a fresh start. Not easy at my age.. but after all I don't have anything to keep me here. And I so badly need a new life.
And if you are sick or depressed is there a soul you can rely on? Of course not. This is the hardest lesson life has taught me.
STN darling try not to think of your MM and the life he's leading at home. It hurts and you don't need it. Just try to delete him from your mind, just like an annoying pop-up and think "STN has prevented a pop up from opening".
Allison I know what you're going through as well. I know what it means to hang on like that, not knowing exactly what's going on. Lately I have the feeling that my MM doesn't belong here and I don't belong to his life. We simply have different lives. And guess who gets the best bargain.... because of the three parties involved, his wife ignores me (guess your MM's wife doesn't know about you either... or am I wrong?), he has the cake and eats it too, and then there's me.... who has the crumbs, who's turned down all the time, who comes after family, works, home etc. If I were in his situation, i.e. married and with children I could accept that but I am not. And after all, he had the nice wedding and he exchanged vows with his wife, not me. Such a relationship is too frustrating.
Allison maybe your situation is different. To be utterly honest, if I were you I wouldn't expect him to leave his family, he might not want that. I think men hate changes, and the best thing for him is to go on like now, keeping his family, his house, his life and ... you. If confronted with an ultimatum, he'll probably tell you that he can't leave his children..oh yes, his wife is a zero absolute in his life.. but the children.. he can't do that to his children.. they're so little, but if you have the patience to wait until they grow up, go to college, get a degree, a job and make their own homes..then maybe he will settle down with you.
I'm joking of course, I so much wish this is not your case and I really hope to read that the first thing he did when he came back, was to pack and move in with you.
And of course you're sad, it's not that you never had him, you thought you had him because he let you think that, he told you he wanted to be with you and as far as you know, he might still want it. Let's try not to put the cart before the horse and see what happens.
And most important of all, Allison think what YOU want. I've friends whose lives turned to hell because they married a man who previously had another family. A couple of them ended up divorced in a blink of an eye because their husband's children did their best to make this happen. And the ex wives contributed too of course, even if the men in question where both divorced before they met my friends.
Enough pessimism for today, I'm premenstrual and with a pounding headache.
Hope to read from you soon.
Corinne where are you? Are you ok? I miss you, please post again.
Love you all
Lillybit

STN

I feel awful for you and the situation your in, listen even though you may have brought this on you can't punish yourself, we are all human and sometimes we f**K up, so be it. It will work itself out, they always do. I know the feeling your in, you feel like locking yourself in a dark closet and hide.

Visualize yourself getting through this moment, stop compliling others.
What I mean is as women we are emotional beasts and have a very easy way of letting everything compound into 1 big volcanic eruption. This won't help you.

Put your MM aside for now. Don't think about what he is thinking, because you don't know. Leave all the negative in the closet.
Take a deep breath, think of something or do something that makes you happy.

But keep visualizing you breaking through this bad situation. It will work.
If it helps keep repeating in your head.."GONNA GET THROUGHT THIS, GOTTA GET THROUGH THIS, I WILL GET THROUGH THIS"..beleive it.

The power of positive thinking and visualization will bring you to your dreams and make them come true, if you always think bad, bad will happen. Think good for a change.good will come and it will be attracted to your goodness.

Hello my friends, Lillybit, Allison, STN, Dali, Danielle Jordan, and Jamie

I've been away for a little bit, but that doesn't mean I haven't been checking in from time to time to see how you are all doing, believe me I do. The situation with my MM has brought me to so many lows and feelings of doubt and depression. As I read your posts Allison and Lillybit please believe me when I say my heart is going out to you and I can definitely understand and share your feelings of frustration, hurt, loss and purely being pissed off.

Allison, I was so sad to see your situation take this turn. I'm not convinced it's at total loss, but your MM does have to get his shit together and honestly state who and what it is he wants. The I love you, can't leave her, yo yo ride isn't fair to you, you deserve so much more. Stand your ground, enjoy your wine and let him come to you. Staying home sick on Monday sounds like a great idea, or better yet, take a vacation day. Let it be known you're taking a vacation day and doing something fabulous. When he returns with anticipation to see you, imagine how he'll feel to know you had other plans other than sitting around waiting for him to get you like a kenneled puppy waiting for it's master to come home from vacation. You truly deserve so much more. I know it hurts and it really sucks, but you are being so strong. Believe me, I know how it feels to be strong in words and crying when you're typing, I do it all the time, but the strength is there behind the tears. Hang in there, either way it goes, we are here for you.

Lillybit, You're so kind to be worried about me and miss me. Our situations are somewhat similar you know, except your MM shows an expressed love for you were as mine has turned away from love and only shown wants of lusts. My MM's wife is or isn't sick. I'm truly not sure. If she is sick it is woman trouble in nature and my MM stated at one time "she almost died from bleeding too much but they sent her home". It makes no sense, not doctors says “hey, your dying, go home I’ll send you the bill” so I'm starting to wonder if the story is true and if not, whose lying. Is she telling him all this so he worries and shows affection or is he lying to me so I feel sorry for him. I don't know, but something isn't right. The way he makes it sound like the medical profession is completely ignoring her just isn't how it happens. Honestly I hope I'm right either way, that she isn't sick, she’s quite young and could still have children if she wants to (they have none). Your MM's wife has a difficult situation, neurological and psychological disorders are very hard, hard on everyone not just the patient. Its is obvious your MM loves you but will be forever bound by his obligation to her. Unfortunately, this leaves you on the outside feeling the way you do. There is no easy solution for you. You can either accept his love and only part of his life, or part on loving terms with a heavy heart. I’m sorry Lillybit, it hurts I know, and we’re here for you.

I don’t know what is happening with my situation, it is a definite rollercoaster and a ride I often times want to get off but can’t get the belt undone. For two weeks he avoids me, talks only erotic sex when we do talk, makes me feel like nothing but his little f**k puppet, then yesterday he tells me I’m beautiful, perfect, never think he doesn’t want me. I’m being lied to and strung along but I’m addicted to him, I need him for some reason. So, it’s a slow and painful disconnecting process for me and I’m not sure how I’m going to do it but I’m trying, I truly am. It is so obvious to me most of the time that neither I or our daughter matter to him. I should never have told him about her, that is my biggest regret.

STN, we keep pulling along, you know I’m here and love you. We all make silly mistakes and there is no worse critic for you then yourself. Don't be so hard on yourself, you are a strong, intelligent beautiful woman, things will work out fine. Danielle Jordan, Dali & Jamie, I hope happiness is finding its way to you, I miss hearing from you.

I love all you ladies and so appreciate all your loving care and concern for me. I do hope we all find happiness, and we can do it together.

For any other woman new to the site looking for advise, of course we are all here to listen, however, if you are considering a relationship with a married man PLEASE reconsider! It is unfortunate but usually only winds up in painful depressing feelings. Do yourself a favor, find someone who isn’t emotionally and otherwise romantically involved, it’s a losing situation.

Much Love to All!
Corinne

Corinne welcome back hun!! You sound stronger hang in there..

Great to hear from you. Well I have yet another update from vacation land.
So he emailed on Tuesday twice and then once today...all because he is shaking in his boots because..that's right..I have not responded.

Are men dense ? I mean come on ladies you have to read this:

"Alright, so you're either not getting my emails or not getting back to me because something's up. If its the latter and somethings changed between us, please just let me know - you know I would show you the same courtesy.
If you think by not telling me something I might not want to hear, you're sparing me from a ruined vacation, not so - worrying about you is worse.
Appreciate some feedback."

He sounds just as f**k up as we do! Gawd why do we torture ourselves.
I am not emailing thinking he doesn't want to hear from me and then he sends me
a note thinking I have changed my mind?? HUH ?
I don't get it.

For the first time I sense his desperation in his words, he is truly worried that I AM the one leaving. I mean his words are desperate, who does this on vacation..ladies he is on the brink, I can feel it.

Love Allison.

Hi Ladies,
I have just a moment for a quick note, but I wanted first to thank you all for your encouraging words, they give me strength and I need all the strength I can get right now. I have fucked up my life, there's just no way around that fact, but I have learned, God have I learned a lot and I'm going to fight as hard as I can for as long as I can until this mess is cleaned up. Things are already looking brighter in some areas because I've decided to fight. I'm not as angry as I am determined to make things better.
And Allison , I just want you to know that I saw the fear, absolute fear in my MM's eyes the last time we were together and he knew I was at my limit for dealing with his bull shit. He knew he'd been horrible to me, he knew I'd seen through the illusions and the double standards and he knew he wanted me to stay and he knew he wanted his good deal to last forever, without having to really do much to maintain either his wife's affections or mine. He wanted us to follow him around like puppy dogs for life. Sorry, no thank you. Being alone is better than being with someone who makes you feel lonelier than you ever have in your life. And there's nothing that feels better than treating yourself well after you've been allowing yourself to be mistreated. Anyway, I'm ranting, but I'm just so determined to set the world on fire in order to get better, if that's what it's going to take. And if anyone ever mistreats me again, you can bet your last penny that you will not find me going back for more.
I love you girls and I am hoping that you will find your own ways to come to terms with these g-damn nightmares that come from being in love with married men. I only want good things for all of you and if I could, I would fight for you all myself so you wouldn't have to do it yourselves, believe me, right now, the way I feel, I'd take on all of your situations single-handed if I could because I see how these relationships work now and I see how they destroy our happiness and feed off of our weaknesses and dreams and good faith and that is just fucking wrong. Sorry for saying it like that, but I am completely fed up with the misery and this is how it makes me talk.
Love as always, STN

When life gives you a lemon, make lemonade. Its not a platitude. Its true. Its all about turning weaknesses into strengths.

You are an intelligent woman, more than you give yourself credit for. No negative situation is permanent. Your present situation will tide over too. Just continue to have faith in yourself. And take positive actions to better it. I have found that believing in oneself goes a long way. At times that's all you have and that's all you need. A steely resolve to get out of the situation.

Everything passes, so shall this too.

Keep your chin up!

Thanks for the earlier mails too- made me break down!! Some tears are healthy.

Hi FP!

I just wanted to drop a note to say that I think I finally get things. I had some strange experience tonight and I realized that the best way to get things to work out is to be able to feel good about myself, no matter what, and to care about other people and what they're thinking and feeling as much as I can...and that's it!
I just got a message from a guy I went out with tonight and he wrote me a text message about how he's never met anyone like me and how it scares him and it's so great and all of that. So feeling the way I'm feeling definitely has an effect on others, feeling good about myself makes other people feel good about me and want to live up to my standards, intstead of the me always trying to live up to theirs. It's great, so much better than what I was doing before with my MM - who I still miss and love, but not desperately like before. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I'm doing better and thanks for your positive words, it's wonderful to be encouraged at a time of life like this one, where I really don't recognize myself very well anymore or anything around me. The changes are good, but they're leaving me feeling very strange...very unfamiliar with who I actually am. Oh well, it's after 4 in the morning here and I really better get to bed. It's good to see that you're doing well, or at least it seems so.
Lots of love to you and your friends, STN

Hello STN, Allison, Lillybit, Corinne, FP

Things are getting better on my side, my dependance on my MM is easing away. i am more frank with my opinion of his actions. and though we see each other i know that i feel less. I think it is because of various things, one; seeing other people, two; tons of work, and spending weekends with friends. Seriously, the people i have met do not come close to the chemistry i have with him, but they are nice people, and i accept it, at the same time i have a relaxed evening with them, and its nice just to have that without the emotional burden.

STN, hold on dear, i have been there, it takes some dicipline to get out of a financial problem, it took me a year actually, but you can do it. sit down, plan, get help on the plan, and be very ruthless about what to keep and what not to keep( buy, not buy even on day to day expense) but do keep some allowance for a gift for your self, a movie, etc. or it will not work. you get depressed and it goes down the drain. so while calculating keep some treats for yourself.

i have been in that situation, and my MM really pulled me out of it. when i read all the posts here, i realise more that he really is a caring person, at the same time i also know, that this is also the reason he will never leave his family, and that is something i cannot live with.

Allison it is rare that a man says that he wants to leave, so you need to give him an ultimatum yes, but something like, i cant live without you, its hurts too much so if you want to be with me then you have to work it out by the end of the year. something of the sort, so it gives him time and you too. and if nothing works then you need to give up :-(. but till then give it your best.

Lillybit, sorry to hear you are distressed... i can relate to you. maybe saying good bye is not easy, but the better way...

Corinne, Hi... i still think you should work on your husbands temper... really that too eats into your sense of security. think about it.

love to all of you, thank you for being there for me

dali

Hello ladies!!!

Ive been offline for a while and I apologize. There's alot of drama going on lately! :) Corinne please read your email...and to those I was talking to on here..I prefer to use email. I will explain later!

xoxoxo
Jamie

Hey STN!

Great to know that you are on your road to recovery! Everybody goes through tough times- everyone. But, its the circle of life, as it goes down, so does it come up. That is the beauty of life. Just give it time. Things will sort out. They always do, no matter how bad they may seem at the time! Something or someone will come up. Trick is to keep positive, no matter how bad it goes! That sees me through all the rough patches, and they are too many and too often! :)

You do come across as such a rooted person, someone with true resilience. I am not surprised that the guy you met gets the right wibes. Enjoy it. You deserve every bit of it. What you must be feeling is 'feeling good with yourself'! That strnage feeling... After a long time when your heart was squeezed by the cold hand of hopelessness, unhappiness, despondency, low self esteem, not finding what looking for...

And no one deserves that.

Just wonder why life can't be simpler. Why people can't meet people and fall in love and find love and live happily ever after?

Isn't love supposed to conquer all?

I guess that happens only in fairy tales.

And reality bites.

And hope burns eternal.

Hi to you all.
Just a few lines to let you know that you are all in my heart and I hope you're doing fine.
Allison, what's new? Did he come back pleading your forgiveness? Did he finally tell you when and if he's going to leave his wife? In any case I hope things are going well.
Dali, it's good to hear from you and to know that you're doing great.Unfortunately we both seems to be in the same situation, our MM will never be with us. And this is too hard to take. I'm glad to hear you're seeing other people and keep yourself busy.
Corinne, what about you? I'm sorry to hear you're not hundred per cent ok... hope you had a nice Easter break. I agree with every word you said. I can either leave him or take what he can give to me. A very hard decision.
DanielleJordan and the other nice ladies here... hope to hear from you soon.
Lots of love
Lillybit

Ladies, I’m hopeless.
My MM called me, at his own convenience, over the weekend. Grotesque erotic sex talk, that was it, that’s all I mean to him and all he wants from me. I think of so many ways to say good bye to him when we don’t talk and as soon as he calls, as soon as I hear his voice, I become a wilted mess just grateful he finally called me again.

I’m a horrible miserable woman. I’m terrified for “her”, terrified she is really very ill, she’s lost so much weight in a very short period of time, is in pain, always cold, something is very wrong if all he is telling me is true and apparently she’s refusing to have the testing they want to do. I’m terrified about it and the worst is I don’t think I’m terrified for her, I’m terrified that if something should happen I’ll lose whatever I have of him forever, I’m terrified for me. I’m a miserable excuse of a human being. God I’m even ashamed to admit that. What the hell kind of woman am I. And what kind of mother even considers leaving her beautiful kids to be with an complete shit of a man like this who only wants to keep me as his whore and his illegitimate child he wants to “give” me tucked away in some nasty apartment to rot.

I’m a shameful woman, one whose gotten herself in so much trouble, the world really would be so much better off without me. I love this man, why oh why I don’t know, but I love him. I love the man who was so sweet, kind, caring, enthusiastic and loving last summer. The man who begged me to come to him, said we’ll deal with the consequences together, remembers everything about me, said he loved me more then I could imagine, told me I was perfect, asked me to marry him. What happened, what did I do, why am I so worthless.

I’m sorry
Corinne

dear Corinne,

please hold yourself together, your children need you, we need you as a friend, and i am sure there are other people who have felt the warmth you have. so if this person does not see it, let it go.

take care
love
dali

Hi Ladies,

I just wanted to drop a quick note to say hello. FP, thank you so much for saying kind things about me and to me. As hard as I'm trying to keep myself together on my own, I still feel such a great boost from getting positive words from others. It's easy for me to slip into paranoid thoughts and depression and a sort of mental no-man's land, where my mind kind of wanders over all the familar, painful ground but at the same time, I'm not really thinking anything - does that make sense? Anyway, I feel that I've found the right goals, it's just a matter of repeatedly striving for them. It takes a ton of energy to retrain myself like this...but there are already benefits. I like my relationships in general a lot better than I have in a long time, not just romantic ones. I mean, it's as if I suddenly woke up to the fact that there are really lovely things inside of each person and I only need to look for them if I want to see them...somehow I was always thinking negative and critical thoughts before, and that just produced all kinds of negative feelings in me that had no real point anyway. I still can't stop my mind from thinking pointless and painful and often paranoid thoughts all the time, but little by little I'm trying to clear them from my system. I don't know where all of my paranoia came from, I didn't use to be this way, but now, the slightest thing can send me into several days of freaking out about some small possibility that something has gone terribly terribly wrong and I'll be humiliated by it. I don't know why I'm doing that so much lately. I guess it's some side effect from the year and a half I spent as my MM's big secret, always scared someone would find out what we didn't want them to find out. I really have been deeply effected and changed by this whole experience, in both good and bad ways. I can see it's going to take some time to clean myself up again.
Corinne, I just wanted to say in front of everyone that I don't think you're a bad person at all. You're a good person who wants very natural things, but is in a very bad/unnatural situation. This is what makes everything natural work against you. So you love your MM and want to be with him - that's perfectly natural. But the situation or the context in which you love him is a disaster, his mood swings, grotesque selfishness, neglect and his commitment to his wife, etc. all of these things keep your feelings from having a healthy 'home', there's no place for even your most pure feelings to thrive, everything gets twisted into something negative because of the situation. You need love from someone who's capable of giving it to you, not from a man who takes without giving. All these MM start out as the most charming, romantic sweep-you-off-your-feet kind of men when they pull us into these relationships. They're little boys who think they can indulge in romantic fantasies without serious consequences (I know this because I was a silly little girl who thought the same thing before my life became so awful). At some point, we and our MM start to wake up inside these relationships and find ourselves in a very different place than we'd hoped for in the beginning. It's just the way it works. Meanwhile, all of the weaknesses that brought us to these situations, the ones we've been feeding in ourselves and our MM during the affair, have grown bigger and bigger at the expense of our strengths. It's a terrible painful process to come to terms with these realities. So if you're feeling pain, I think it must mean that you're well on your way to coming to terms with your situation. You're going to be okay in time as long as you give yourself a chance to get better. It's not going to be easy, but we're all here for you, I can feel that everyone on this site is truly concerned about you and your situation. I feel it's safe to say that we're all wanting only what's best for you.
Anyway, that's how I've come to see it. I'm sure there are other ways to look at it as well, but I just wanted you to know that I think you're going to be okay in time.
If anyone has a good way to deal with paranoid thoughts, could you please let me know. It's my latest challenge and I'm not too fond of it.
Lots of love, STN

Hi ladies

I came across this site yesterday and tried to post a reply to a lady who was asking for help. I don’t know where her post went because it has seemed to vanish .. as has my reply!!

She had been married for 10 years and fallen out of love with her husband and wanted to know how to connect with herself. I don’t know how the email system works but if you are reading this, I can send you a copy of the message I tried to post this morning.

Well my heart goes out to all of you in pain and dealing with the emotions that being involved with a MM can bring. I think I’m one of the lucky ones in as much as I am not in love with my MM but have strong feelings for him. I have only seen him three times as we met only 3 months ago. So the time factor has not been too long, but the feelings and emotions are the same as most of yours. We were very open and the chemistry was and still is very strong.

I sent him an email yesterday saying I didn’t feel the original vibe we had was there because of a massive slowdown on his part and asked for a few weeks break as I am out of the country next week. I don’t intend to contact him and for me i've made the break.

Ladies read http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Seduction-of-a-Married-Man&id=6846.

Doesn’t the pattern and actions sound familiar, even though the words and our situations are different? My MM and me have exhaustively talked and emailed openly about the emotions we were feeling and lots more besides. I knew what I was getting into (or so I thought), but your feelings will eventually become very strong that you either get out as soon as you can by telling him anything you have to - to preserve yourself. The longer you stay the more addicted you will become and the more you will think about him. Even after such a short time I still feel pain and sadness but after sending my email I know it’s the right thing to do.

We have to take back out self esteem and love ourselves unconditionally. Through this self love our feelings will change and the co-dependency will fade given time.

I know its hard but WE CAN AND WILL GET THROUGH THIS!!

Keep strong ladies

Donetta

STN

What is important is your ability to see through the problems that you are encountering- that is the first and very crucial step towards healing. At times, situations beyound our control scar our hearts, minds and soul. But, then they are not fatal wounds. They heal, in time. How fast they will heal is upto us. Believe me, in 6 months, a year or so- the hurt you are feeling would be a distant memory.

The only way to fight an overwhelming feeling of 'something going terribly wrong etc' is to positively reinforcement. Try to very very consciously turn the event you think is going to humiliate you, in your mind, into something that would 'turn itself out' and become positive for you and make you a 'star'! Do this everytime and in time you would be able to keep the negatives at bay! It works!!

'Inner half of every shroud is bright and shining, so wear your clouds inside out to show the lining'. I read these lines years ago- and the lines have stayed with me still. It is my Mantra.

Our brain is a strange place- it has all kinds of irrational fears too. "Quieten your mind". Initially you may reach a place where there is no thought- then guide that 'no thought' state to 'positive thought stage'. Whenever you hear the 'buzz' that scares you- take a deep breath (or ten) and tell yourself that your mind is going to quieten.

Also, try repeating some word in your mind, when you get these negative thoughts. If religious 'try God's name'. Or anyone else who you think has a positive impact/ influence on you- someone who you know would protect you. That repeatition would make the negative thoughts fly away faster than you can blink!

Also, have you tried Yoga? It takes away toxins from once body, and more importantly from once mind- try it. Follow all the breathing and excercises that the trainer teaches you daily, preferably in open air. Yoga works wonders on a wounded soul.

It would be an ardrous task at times, but when you know where you are headed, the journey is just one step at a time!

Be strong!!!

FP

Thanks FP,

You know, you're right. It's strange because the same things you said to me I've told myself and Corinne in different words. I mean, I know that you have to fight things with their opposites sometimes, so that an open heart is the only thing that can deal with a closed one, an open mind for a closed mine, courage and bravery against fear, use strength against weakness, be self-sufficient to combat neediness, cultivate dignity and self-worth to combat abuse, etc etc. I mean, somewhere in myself I know these things, but every now and then I just forget and lose focus. So thank you for the reminders, you are right. What I'm trying to figure out is when to stop fighting with opposites and actually go with the flow. I mean, there are situations when it's best to just accept something and not fight it...I've come across several of these, but I haven't quite figured out how to always be able to say which situation calls for which response. Maybe it's good to fight the negative impulses in myself with opposites and when I encounter negative impulses in others, to just let them run their course, without investment from me, accepting them for what they are. I'm not sure, but maybe that's what I'm getting at. Sorry, I'm getting kind of out there...and on that spacey note

I've been doing yoga every single morning since I decided to fight the damage this affair did to me, and I sometimes feel my energy and old self coming back right while I'm doing it. It does help, I can't say how or why, but I know that it does, and it feels great to set aside some time each day for focusing on taking care of myself with no interruptions. I love the idea that I'm making the world and all of its nasty, petty, desperate, ugly struggles wait for me while I'm spending an hour twisting myself into some truly strange poses and cleaning out my mind. It makes me smile just to think of it. And by the way, I dedicate my practice each morning to all of us who are here and struggling. My instructor said it helps to dedicate your practice to people who are in need or are suffering, and I think he's right. It all sounds kind of flighty and new-agey, but that's only to people who are only open to western traditions, my sense is that there's still a lot of appreciation for this kind of practice in the east, and for good reason.

Anyway, thanks for your encouragements and suggestions, they do help me get back on the right track when I manage to fall off. There's a lot to be said for just keeping our chins up, no matter what awful things come our way. Shakespeare once wrote that if you don't have a virtue already in your character, assume that you do anyway (that's not an exact quote, sorry), but he was right. I mean, even when I'm not feeling all that brave, I still want to keep my chin up just for the sake of keeping it up, somehow it helps me to assume I'm brave no matter how I'm feeling.

Lots of love, STN

Hi Ladies,
Is anyone out there? The website seems kind of dead lately. I'm PMSing (head for the hills!) and looking for company. It seems like I was just PMSing a week or two ago, good grief! It's bad this time because too many things are wrong. I've got big troubles in each part of my life: social, work, financial, love, family, and so on. I'm just not sure I've got the strength to keep this chin up, but I'm doing the best I can. Today I did great, actually, but the thing is that I need to find me a much more comfortable place in this life. I need some security and comfort, some stability and famliarity. Nothing here feels like 'home' to me. Very little inside of me feels like 'me' anymore. I have no one to cling to but myself in these days. I know, I shouldn't ever cling to anyone else, but still, some good company would be very nice. The guy I was interested in isn't so interesting after all. Mostly he just decided he wanted to be mean about Americans (I'm an American). And I'm wondering where are all the loyal people in the world are. I need some loyalty in my life these days, I feel abandoned, even though I'm the on who's isolated myself.

It's only when I don't want to want anything from anyone that I feel the best. I had that feeling today for a few hours. I mean, I was totally self-sufficient and I was oozing strength at just the right moment, when I needed it most for facing a person who's been mean to me. But now, I'm a bundle of fragile, exhausted nerves again. Where does it go? The strength I mean. It's here one minute and gone the next, I don't get it. This has got to be my most rambling ramble yet, sorry everyone. I'm just in that kind of mood and I'm feeling a bit lonely. I hope you all are doing better, what's going on out there?

Love, STN

Hi Gang:

I'm back and honestly I have been on here a lot in different emotional states to write what has happened with the MM being back from Florida. I feel today in a good enough place that I can write how I am feeling and dealing with things.

The day he got back he called me and wanted to see me, in which I wasn't ready. Although I was so excited to see him at the same time I was scared as hell.

I want to walk you through the feelings:

First call: I hadn't heard his voice in over 2 weeks, he called me the night he got back it was easter sunday, that in itself felt weird. I knew once I saw him things would be different. He wanted to see me and I said no, that I would see him on Monday at work.

First sighting: He walked in my office, ran over and kissed me. My heart felt like it was going to jump through my chest, I couldn't speak, I was so happy to see him. On top of that he looked amazing. After kissing for a bit, he sat down and gave me the coles notes of the trip. He basically said that he spent most of the time playing with his kids, watching tv and in the pool. His wife never made any attempt to "be with him" and infact he ended up sleeping with his son every night for the entire 2 weeks. He kept saying how much he missed me and wished I was there. We agreed to meet later, and all I was thinking about was IS HE GOING TO TELL ME HE'S LEAVING HIS WIFE....

The Meeting: Well after all the good stuff, we got to talking, I asked him if he had thought about things, he said yes. He said that when he left he knew he had loved me but thought the trip would confirm any "infatuation" thoughts if that was the case. He said 2 things happened..when I didn't email him..REMEMBER THAT LADIES...he didn't like how he felt and thought I was gone. AND when
he saw me in person again he knew...that he needed me and wanted to be with me.

Ok all GOOD. So I left it at that, then things started to bug me, he didn't tell me what he said he was going too..he never said if he is going to leave her. So I let the week go by. And this past monday (3 days ago)..I did it..

I asked him flat out. Are we on the same page and do you know what I mean by that? To which he answered yes.

First of all, I just want to let you all know that I bought a new loft that will be ready in November, you all know that I am currently going through a divorce.

So in my heart, I was hoping that by a miracle he would actually want to live with me.

Anyhow. This is what has conspired.
He loves me and his kids and wishes he could be with both of us at the same time. He realizes that he can't stay in his marriage for the sake of the kids as it would drive him crazy, but he knows he has to leave but yet again he doesn't know WHEN. He is concerned that if he did move in with me that I might change my mind and the age difference. I told him he has to make a decision, he owes me that.

So Ladies, this is what I am going to do. I am getting on with my life.
I am still going to be with him, but I know that I will have to break it off soon. It sucks cause I love him, but I love him enough to leave.
I always belive that is something is meant to be, it will be.

He has zero confidence in himself, I mean the guy was away for 2 fricken weeks without me and still nothing empowers him to be with me for real.
Given, I don't have a place on my own yet.
Not sure I can wait until November.

So that's scoop. Sorry it's not good news. But honestly I don't think it's bad.
I feel like I am in control for a change.
The outcome will probably be as he anticipates, me leaving him...him leaving his wife...him being alone.

The one thing I have realized, as long as he has me to love and he his home for the kids, he won't leave. Until he feels the love loss from me he will ever know a true love lost. Then he will realize that yes his kids are important but what I gave him and wanted to give him..a life..a life he always wanted.
Sure the kids will fill my void, but they can never replace the life I have given back to him. I am ok with that. Because at the end of this whole thing
he is what got me out of my shitty marriage, and hell I am 35, I am a career woman and I am pretty damm hot. So f** him.

Love Allison

Allison,
thanks for the update, I was really waiting for that. You know, you're the only one here who has some hope to work things out for the best. So I'm really sorry to hear that after all he's still hanging on between you and his family. What is he waiting for? He can't stay in a marriage that has been dead and buried for a long time. The point with most men is that they don't understand they have to get out of an unpleasant situation regardless of any other relationship. In your case, your MM would want to be hundred per cent sure that you'll never leave him. Basically he leaves someone for someone else. The worst mistake ever. How can he ask you to swear you'll always be on his side... come on, nobody (included him) can ask and give this certainty. You're right, go on with your life, put yourself first. He has the time to make up his mind, you'll be moving in your new place in six months, not tomorrow. And it's not that if he moves in with you he will never see his children again. Also, children understand if their parents are not having a good marriage, they witness the arguments, the indifference.. I don't think this helps them to grow up balanced and happy. In any case you're utterly right, he'll never leave his home if he can have both his children and you. I'm not saying that they're not important but what when they will grow up and leave? Is it really worth to sacrifice one's life for the sake of others? Call me selfish but my answer is NO, it's completely useless.
Leave him if you believe he's never going to be with you, otherwise you'll never have a full life. Give him a deadline, either he makes up his mind by November or you'll leave him.
I'm with you.
Love
Lillybit

Hey Allison,

I'm sorry for the shifting sands, but you sound great, you're doing really well. My feeling or sense of things is that these MM will usually do anything to keep both relationships going for as long as they possibly can, which sometimes translates into them talking the talk of leaving, but not walking the walk. Instead they dance around walking the walk until your sick and dizzy just from watching it all. I think what it boils down to is how emotionally and psychologically mature the man in question is, or, in your case, how mature he might be becoming. I hope he steps up to the plate, but then I read some postings by women who actually got their MM, married them and lived to regret it because they ended up with a man who has a weak character, someone who'd cheat in the first place. A while back one woman wrote about how steamy and romantic it all was until she finally had her MM as a husband and then her life went down the toilet, he became a total deadbeat and was sucking her life dry. It's a tricky business getting involved with these MM. But I can see you've got a handle on your situation, so I don't fear so much for you that something like that would happen, I mean, you haven't lost emotional control and that is really the most important thing.

I'm actually losing my mind from my experience. I swear, I'm totally paranoid, it's awful. Yesterday I actually managed to convince myself that someone in my family had been killed, that that was the reason I hadn't heard from her for so long, although I'd been trying to reach her for weeks. What I mean is that my mind just fixates on the absolute worst possible scenario in any uncertain and potentially difficult situation and I can't shake the terror it puts in my heart. I'm doing it all the time lately, and I think it has to be caused by my affair. What's worse is that it attracts rotten things into my life, I'm sure of it. I'm so emotionally unstable, I go up and down and the same over and over again,and the littlest things can set me off on a paranoid tangent for days. Anyway, I'm just trying to let you see what could happen if you don't stay as careful and collected as you have been. I'm not saying you'll end up paranoid too, it's just that there will be emotional side-effects of some kind if you stay under the stress and pains of an affair for too long. But you already know that, I think you're doing a great job, please just keep your eyes open for potential pitfalls, that's all I'm trying to say.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Lots of love, STN

Ladies,
I just have to tell you that you can lose your mind because of the stress of all this MM stuff. I spent the last week totally convinced that 25 major problems were happening all at once, that my life was completely falling apart, that I could trust no one, that I'd never love again, that I'd ruined my life, that everyone hated me for what I'd done and that I should probably just take a rock and kill myself, doing everyone a favor in the process. But this week, post PMS, I'm fine. Totally fine. Talk about night and day. Sure, I have worries and concerns right now, but they aren't paralyzing and overwhelming me like they did less than 3 days ago. I was a ball of 100% pure doom and gloom anxiety less than 72 hours ago, now I'm smiling and upbeat and the world is an okay place again. Sure, I used to PMS before the affair, but it was NOTHING like it is now. What a disaster.
So I know I already said it, but I thought I'd let you know you're also in danger of psychological and emotional side-effects even after you decide to let go.
xxoo, STN

Hey gals thanks for the support.

I am doing emotionally great actually. Some things have changed though.
My MM is actually thinking of his future for a change, he used to be so chained to the past and what's in it. I notice this difference in him and it really came out on Friday.

We spent the afternoon outside having a picnic, where he revealed to me some MAJOR financial strain he is under with his wife. He feels like he is losing control of his finances and doesn't want to be tied to her financially.
So I gave him some advice. He was talking about his mortgage and stuff and then I just said, well if your going to be re-financing and cleaning up all the debt sounds to me like your not leaving her.

Where in return he says, that's the whole point. I want to clean up stuff ahead of time so that it won't be such a mess. Do I believe him..hell no.
Call me skeptic but seriously..

anyways I did have a major breakthrough he actually agreed to come to a dinner party with me and meet 2 of my closest friends on May 5th. That is HUGE step. I just hope he doesn't cancel, he ensures that he won't let me down..and he never has thus far so we will see.

This would be the first time he does something with me on a social level that involves my friends. He also said last nite that he has to get more familar with the area that I will be moving too.

Love Allison

PS...STN...girl you need to keep positive I know it's hard to beleive that, but you are sounding better every day. Stop compounding thoughts and focus.
Love u..

Hey ladies,
I haven't posted in a while. Your story stood out to me Allison. He's not going to leave his wife. I don't know him, but I know MM. He's putting in lip service. He's comfortable with the way things are. That means you, her, and the kids. You are in a good place emotionally and have a good handle on things. I can tell that you're going to be just fine. It's all a lesson learned.

STN, you have serious PMS. It's funny how your mind trips out when you're on your monthly. Hope all is well.

Lilybit, email me some time. daniellejordan29@yahoo.com. We share a lot of the same ideas and most days, I just don't give a damn and I like to share that with the world. :)

Hello Ladies,
I’ve been away for a little while but that doesn’t mean I have come back from time to time to check on how you are all doing. I admitted to STN that I’ve been to ashamed to log on because I’m still stuck in this miserable love. My MM continues to pull me up and down on this damn rollercoaster ride. He now lets great lengths of time (or they seem great to me) go by without calling, when we do talk it’s mainly grotesque sexual things he wants, or wants to do to me, or see done to me and so on. I try to change the subject to something more constructive like “what the hell is going on with US” but unfortunately I’m spineless when it comes to openly asking him those questions. I think I’m afraid I know what the answers will be.

I’ve realized that our love for eachother is completely different. He loves the idea of f**king me and that is basically it, I love him for who he is and so completely. Unfortunately, that love is bit by bit destroying me and who I am. I’m trying to rid myself of it but it’s like trying to pull melted wax off a table cloth. I’m just so ashamed to say I’m in love with a man who clearly isn’t in love with me, and I’m ashamed that I ever revealed to him that my daughter is his. He didn’t deserve to know that but unfortunately he led me to believe we will finally be together, love eachother, have a life and family together, so at long last I thought I could tell him. I was wrong, so very wrong. He LIED LIED LIED.

So, here I am, ashamed of who I am, what I’ve become and being drowned in this devastating love. Please don’t think I haven’t taken all your beautiful words and kindhearted advise to heart. I’ve heard it all and want to follow it all, but I’m so stuck and hurt. I imagine once I can turn that hurt into anger I can begin to pull away, but right now I’m still caught in his web. His feelings for me are so impure and ugly and I pray every day for this love to be taken from me. Apparently, at the moment, my prayers are unanswered. I’m trying and STN has truly pulled me through some of my darkest hours, I lean on her way too much, you know how much I love you STN.

STN and Lillybit, I know you wanted me to get on instant messenger but unfortunately I can’t do that on this computer. STN, you can give her my e-mail address.

Allison, I’ll be praying for you for your May 5th date. He loves you but sounds so conflicted. He needs to jump off the “I don’t know” train and decide which directions he’s going. Don’t let him string you along too much, you deserve so much more then that. It does sound like you’ll be able to be on the loving side of this trial, I so hope so, you deserve this happiness.

I love you all, VERY MUCH!
Much Love
Corinne

Hi guys

I am really having a hard time today, last week I felt so strong and empowered, today I feel like a bag of shit.

It's not just the MM, I have stress from work, the divorce and my new place.
I am feeling overwhelmed right now and I don't like it.

When I have been feeling this way, my MM would provide an escape and make me happy, but I feel he is feeling the same stress as me so he really hasn't been around to provide that release which in the same makes me sad because I think
I wish I had someone who can help me through today.

Oh well, I guess I have to get used to being alone and dealing with my issues as they are mine and only mine which isn't a bad thing because I will get stronger with each blow to the head.

Big deep breath, Big glass of red tonite...just need to get through the rest of this day...

Love Allison.

Allison,
sorry to hear you're having a bad day, wish you could have someone to help you through it. Also, sorry to hear that you're still having problems with your MM, he should make up his mind and let you know what his intentions are, all this wishy-washy is devastating for you. One day he wants to be with you, the next is taking a step back and tells you he still have many issues that need to be sorted out. There'll always be problems, he should just put a stop to this agony, in either way or another.
DanielleJordan, check your email!!!
Corinne I would really want to help you out of your situation... this man is destroying you and your happiness. Please let me have your email and write to me whenever you feel like it... maybe with a joint effort we can help you, provided you want it of course. Anyway my email is lillybit.one@gmail.com.
Sorry I can't stay long today..
Love to you all
Lillybit

Hello Allison,

you are doing great! you are strong, and these few days will fly past. Keep questioning your MM it helps, you and him.
my MM has become very attentive, while i have become detached. life is easier now, the hurt i less. but well it took sometime, a year almost. but finally i can say there is a detachment and i am not so dependent emotionally. i meet him we have fun, but i see it as it is fun and good time. no forever dreams.

take care girls
dali

Hey Ladies,

F-ck it. Everything is such a damn mess that somehow I just want to say f-ck it. And right now I mean it. It feels GREAT to let it all go again. I can't let it go every day, but when I do, it's the best feeling there is.

Allison I"m sorry you hit a slump. It's normal though and I know you'll get back to feeling like your old self. Just give it a couple of days to pass, you probably just hit a patch of low energy and need a little rest in order to get your 'fight' back. But be careful, if your affair with your MM starts causing you any kind of prolonged depression, get OUT, and fast and dont waste a second. They have to know that you won't suffer too much for them...and you have to know you won't either. They always regret it when you give them the gift of missing you. Be sure of that.

You're right Danielle, I have some serious PMS, I really don't know what to do about it, but it turns me into a freaky, paranoid useless ball of anxiety when it hits and I hate it. I hope it gets better in time, it was never this bad before. At least I know now that I shouldn't listen to my own damn paranoid thoughts when it hits. I'm feeling like a fool. I really believed some wild stuff, I believed it 100%...crazy! There are just too many uncertainties in my life and I feel vulnerable, mostly financially. It's scary. I guess that's at the bottom of it all. I have no safety net and I'm still out of money. F-ck it.

Tonight I went out and had a ball. Gin and tonics seem to make me completely happy. I felt free for the first time in ages, alive, young, wild, reckless and happy. Nothing mattered when I had those drinks. Maybe that's a bad sign, but I don't do it often and it was so great while it lasted. It reminded me that there's more to life than my troubles. It gave me a glimpse at what life could be like if I got my shit together and didn't have all these concerns. So it's making me want to just give all I have to getting stronger and more together every day. I want to feel alive and young and enjoy my life before it's too late. I want out of the prison of worry and sadness. I'm going to do it somehow.... And then I'm going to find me a good man and have me a good time for a change. There's got to be at least one good man out there for me. And the way I feel about my MM these days, he's got the prison of a life that he deserves. I don't miss him at all. I don't miss any of it. I guess part of me is glad the affair happened because I feel I woke up to life and love for the first time, but I wouldn't take him back, not now, not ever again. That door is closed, ...not just closed, slammed SHUT.

So let me end where I began, f-ck it and f-ck him. I just want to get things under control and find some happiness for myself again. You ladies hang in there, stay strong and thank you for all supporting me when times are tough.
Love you, Stn

Hello dear Allison,
I'm sorry Wednesday was such a difficult day for you. I do so hope today is clearer and brighter for you.

All the things you are going through, work, moving, the divorce, and your MM issues are only natually going to make you feel stressed out. Please know you'll get through this and, on the bright side, 3 out of 4 of those stessors are completely in your control. Work is, well work, only the independantly wealthy don't have to worry about that, moving is stressful but exciting, all the newness and making things the way YOU want them, the divorce although sad and difficult was inevitable and will pass in time, it’s the best thing for YOU. So, that leaves your MM. You know he loves you, he'll either wake up one day and realize he's either going to be with you or he'll remain a spineless prick and deny is love for the sake of the children. (the WORST reason by far to stay in a miserable marriage, he's only teaching his children that misery is what to expect when they are married). Either way, you know he loves you, however sometimes pure love simply isn’t enough.

In the end you’ll always have the fact that you are a strong, beautiful, intelligent woman who has an incredibly bright future ahead of her. You’ll have love in your life, either with your MM or someone else, you will have it. This storm will pass.

I’m thinking of you, and everyone, always and keep checking back to see how you all are.

I love you all very much!
Much Love
Corinne

Hey Allison,

I was thinking about your situation and it seems different in several ways from the situations a lot of us have been in, but then I tried to think about what it has in common with everyone else's. I think it's something that I talked about with Lillybit. Basically, you're MM's life is fragmented, he gives you what he can, he gives his wife and family what he can and he's basically torn between two situations that are attractive and unattractive for various reasons. He's in Indecision City thinking about which bus to take out of town, but he hasn't even bought a ticket in the first place.

To sum up in a slightly clearer version, this situation is fragmenting, not fulfilling. And if you stay in a fragmenting situation too long, you can end up shattered, like Corinne and I did. My feeling is that you should stay exactly as strong as you are and force a decision on him, and not later, but now. And decide yourself if you want a man who's capable of stewing indefinitely in this kind of emotional uncertainty. The ideal would be that he's ready to make a sincere investment in you, and create a fulfilling rather than fragmenting situation. You'll have to judge his ability to do that yourself and keep checking in on your emotional state, make sure you don't start sinking into a pit of misery.

I hope you're feeling better, did the bad mood pass?
Love, STN

I'm trying ladies, I truly am. I know this man is completely insincere and his feeling for me are nothing but grotesque. It isn't how it was, this isn't what I'm in love with, the man I love is gone, or perhaps never existed. I've wasted 20 years loving him, for nothing. Anyway, I heard this new song over the weekend and felt this was such an appropriate time in my life for it to come out, it's about an "other woman" whose so desperately in love but in the end realized he'll never be hers and she says good bye. It's by a band called Sugarland (for those of you who listen to Country). It's a slow melody, here is the lyric.

Allison, I hope things are going well and you are feeling better. I'm thinking of you always and love you.

I love you all and will be in touch.
Much Love
Corinne
(now here's the lyric, the title is Stay)

"Stay"

I've been sitting here staring at the clock on the wall
And I've been laying here praying, praying she won't call
It's just another call from home
And you'll get it and be gone
And I'll be crying

And I'll be begging you, baby
Beg you not to leave
But I'll be left here waiting
With my Heart on my sleeve
Oh, for the next time we'll be here
Seems like a million years
And I think I'm dying

What so I have to do to make you see
She can't love you like me

Why don't you stay
I'm down on my knees
I'm so tired of being lonely
Don't I give you what you need
When she calls you to go
There is one thing you should know
We don't have to live this way
Baby, why don't you stay

You keep telling me, baby
There will come a time
When you will leave her arms
And forever be in mine
But I don't think that's the truth
And I don't like being used and I'm tired of waiting
It's too much pain to have to bare
To love a man you have to share

Why don't you stay
I'm down on my knees
I'm so tired of being lonely
Don't I give you what you need
When she calls you to go
There is one thing you should know
We don't have to live this way
Baby, why don't you stay

I can't take it any longer
But my will is getting stronger
And I think I know just what I have to do
I know just what I have to do
I can't waste another minute
After all that I've put in it
I've given you my best
Why does she get the best of you
So next time you find you wanna leave her bed for mine

Why don't you stay
I'm up off my knees
I'm so tired of being lonely
You can't give me what I need
When she begs you not to go
There is one thing you should know
I don't have to live this way
Baby, why don't you stay, yeah

Thanks to all of you for your sincere wishes you all have truly helped me.
Yes that mood has finally passed, I still feel overwhelmed at the moment, I can't beleive how fast time is going. I find myself scattered in thoughts and even nervous of the future sometimes, this is so unlike me. So I through myself in other busy situations trying not to think and worry.

Sometimes I feel I am at the edge of having a major breakdown, but then there's this constant voice in my head saying "it's going to be all right".
I hold onto that.

OK I know your all wondering the MM status update so here it goes.

Things are pretty much the same, like before I have basically given up on pressuring him for an answer on when, there really is no point. He either wants to be with me or not. Again even if he did take the leap of faith with me he really has no place to go until I move into my loft which by the way could be as early as Sept 29th..WOW.

He still is coming with me on saturday night to meet my friends, which is a huge first step as it's on a sat nite, he has never done this and he has never actually spent time with my friends..so we will see how that turns out, I am quite nervous actually.

The funniest thing now, being almost 18 months I find ourselves talking much more and sharing moments rather than having the sex frenzy.
He is also concerned that I am happy etc.

Like I have posted before, I have accepted the fact that come this fall/winter it will be a whole new ball game. And I am preparing myself for the break I guess that's why I am not pushing anymore.

I love him like no other man I have ever loved, he says the same to me.
But is love enough. Well you know what it was when I needed it and if he isn't apart of my complete life then that chapter will close and a new one will begin.

Hi Corinne,
I was thinking that it might help you if you asked yourself what staying in this love, such as it is, for so long (20 years) has done for you. I mean, it must be giving you something more than an addiction if you've wanted to hold on to it for so long. I think if you find the answer to that question, you'll also find the key to what's at the root of your situation (and from there the solution, or at least the problem, will be more clear). I'm staring to believe that every problem contains a solution that's begging for your attention. The more distressing the problem is, the more the solution inside of it is begging for you to pay attention to it. Maybe I'll change my mind, but it's the way I feel right now.

Things are getting a bit better for me, I'm feeling just fine these days, no sadness that lasts for more than a few minutes and my anxiety/paranoia has mostly vanished. My head is strangely clear and I'm full of energy and a desire to fight to get my life under control. I love the feeling it gives me to say "NO MORE" to people who've gotten used to taking advantage of me. I really got into a weak state during this affair and was letting all kinds of nonsense happen at my expense, just because I had no energy or interest in fighting it. Now, suddenly, I'M BACK, and I'm cleaning out my closet. It's good to be back, wonderful in fact, even if I hardly recognize myself...I'm actually stronger and better than I was when I first went into the affair. I decided that this year is dedicated to me facing and solving the problems in my life, one at a time, with courage and complete dedication to setting things right. I hope it works. I'm really trying. I have a strong feeling that the worst is behind me now, I hope I'm right.

Allison, I'm really wondering what's happened to you. Dali, Danielle,FP...how are you all doing?

Love, STN

Hi Ladies,

I've been doing some thinking and have decided that since I'm not still in love with a MM, I should probably just sign-off the website. I'm still recovering from the sitaution with my MM, but I feel like I'm no longer where I should be in order for me to really be able to understand what you're all going through anymore, so when I see your postings I just feel like shouting 'GET OUT, LEAVE THEM NOW, RUN, GET AWAY, SAVE YOURSELVES BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE' all the time, and that's just not right. You all have to go through your own situations in your own way and make your own decisions about what's best for you, and my perspective isn't so relevant to you anymore. I'm seeing things from the 'other side' of the affair and I feel like my mind is blocking the memories and thoughts that would let me feel the kinds of things you're feeling now while you're still in your affairs...I'm just not capable of feeling them at the moment. I think it's just my mind's way of ending the suffering I've been going through and pushing me forward. Part of me still does know exactly what it means to be in love with a MM and I want to wish you all of the strength and courage and self-respect you're going to need to get yourselves through your situation.

I also wanted to thank you all for seeing me through my darkest hours. I've never known misery like I've been feeling this last year. Never. I hope I never will again. If it hadn't been for you ladies holding my hand through all of this, I'm sure I'd still be lost, or worse. Thank you for enduring all of my long-winded rants and vents and panic attacks and depressive states and also for supporting me when I was getting my strength back. I needed you all, and you were all there for me. I'll never forget that and will keep a place for each of you in my heart for the rest of my life. I've got to turn my back on the pain I've been feeling, and put my losses behind me as much as possible, but that doesn't mean I want to turn my back on any of you. If there's ever something that any of you needs, or if you want to have a friendship outside of all this stuff with our MM, you can always find me at my yahoo address:

stillstuck@yahoo.com

I'll be checking it on and off, but am glad to say that I'm not "still stuck", that I'm transformed into someone I like and I'm going to try to make that stick. All of you helped me get to this new place, a place that seems like the place I've been looking for all along, so thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Lots of love and all good wishes, STN

I just wanted to give you all a little gift before I go. When you eventually come to terms with your situations and your life feels like it's your own again, when your heart isn't breaking on a daily basis anymore, and whether you decide to keep your MM or not, you're going to feel like you just got out of prison after 20 years, or that you were re-born after being dead. It will feel GREAT compared to any misery that you're feeling while in the conflicted situations with your MM. So when you arrive at this place, put this song by Bon Jovi in your stereo and turn it up full blast, I promise that you'll appreciate it like never before:

This ain't a song for the broken-hearted
No silent prayer for the faith-departed
I ain't gonna be just a face in the crowd
You're gonna hear MY VOICE
When I shout it out loud

I T ' S M Y L I F E
It's now or never
I ain't gonna live forever
I just want to live while I'm alive
It's my life
My heart is like an open highway
Like Frankie said
I did it my way
I just wanna live while I'm alive
It's my life

This is for the ones who stood their ground
For Tommy and Gina who never backed down
Tomorrow's getting harder make no mistake
LUCK AIN'T EVEN LUCKY
GOT TO MAKE YOUR OWN BREAKS

It's my life
And it's now or never
I ain't gonna live forever
I just want to live while I'm alive
It's my life
My heart is like an open highway
Like Frankie said
I did it my way
I just want to live while I'm alive
'Cause it's my life

Better stand tall when they're calling you out
Don't bend, don't break, baby, don't back down

It's my life

And it's now or never
'Cause I ain't gonna live forever
I just want to live while I'm alive
It's my life
My heart is like an open highway
Like Frankie said
I did it my way
I just want to live while I'm alive

It's my life
And it's now or never
'Cause I ain't gonna live forever
I just want to live while I'm alive
It's my life
My heart is like an open highway
Like Frankie said
I did it my way
I just want to live while I'm alive
'Cause
I T ' S M Y L I F E!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck to all of you, Love STN

Have this funny feeling you'll be back..kinda like the MM...ha ha just kidding
But serioulsy, I feel your empowerment and strength, girl you get out there in the world and let someone love you, let someone elses heart break for once.

It's funny how all of you push strength with music, I never let on this but I am an executive at a very large record label and I know how music has got me through the best and worst of times.

So Ciao STN...may all your future beats be bopping and when you look up in the sunshine, the shivers you feel from that perfect song are you own girl because you did it.

You did it!

Love Allison.

Hello to all my dear friends,

Just a quick note. Things are not much changed for me and my MM. I'm simply trying to come up with a way to let go, let go of this love, let go of the hopes and dreams, and mainly, let go of him. It's odd, sometimes I wonder if when I finally do it, either tell him I'm done or simply stop calling him back, if he will fight for me. Sometimes it seems like he will, others (and mostly) it seems like he'll simply be "whatever". I don't know. I know it has to end, I can't abandon my children and friends to run to him like a lost puppy only to be kept hidden and secret as his other woman potentially forever. To be his little sex slave, become the mother of his bastard children and something he wants to keep hidden and secret. You know, I'm a good person, I've always been nice, respectful and pleasant to others. I'm caring and devoted and a damn good mother. All of that would vanish if I went to him, it would destroy everything that I am and who I am, and I'm not willing to hurt my children for him, or anyone. Please let me find the strength to let go of the part of me that loves him so very much!

So, Allison, did you go to your dinner party with your MM? I've thought about you all weekend and prayed you had a fabulous time with he and your friends. I'm anxious to hear how it went. I do hope he didn't bail out on you, but if he did, screw him, I hope you had a blast anyway. You deserve it and you are doing great. So you are a music executive. Now that's a business I would have loved to get into. Yes, music does nurture the soul, music touches me and calms me like a gently breeze. I love to sing, and although I'm told I'm very good, I'm stricly a shower singer, and when I'm cleaning house. The feather duster handle makes a great mike (ha ha). STN and I have both found many different lyrics to match certain circumstances in our lives, It's my life, is perfect for her right now. So anyway, I hope you had a beautiful weekend, please do tell.

Dali, Lillybit, Danielle, Jamie and STN, I love you all and I want you to know I'm trying, truly I am. I would never have found the strength I have even now if it wasn't for all of you. You are my angles and I love you very much! I'll be in touch.

Much Love
Corinne

Hello again Ladies

I know I do associate music and lyric to how I'm feeling and my life, but this song seems to have been written about me, for me, right through me. It's beautiful and makes me cry, it is everything I'm going through and feeling. I wanted to share it. It's by Evanesance (I'm sure I spelled that wrong). Do enjoy, she's a beautiful artist.

I love you all, Very Much!
Much Love
Corinne

"My Immortal"

I'm so tired of being here
Suppressed by all my childish fears
And if you have to leave
I wish that you would just leave
'Cause your presence still lingers here
And it won't leave me alone

These wounds won't seem to heal
This pain is just too real
There's just too much that time cannot erase

[Chorus:]
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me

You used to captivate me
By your resonating light
Now I'm bound by the life you left behind
Your face it haunts
My once pleasant dreams
Your voice it chased away
All the sanity in me

These wounds won't seem to heal
This pain is just too real
There's just too much that time cannot erase

Hi Corinne

You will find that strength it is inside you, it will be always. Some days it might be hidden but others it's large and in charge, just keep getting through each day, you can do it.

As for me yes my MM showed up, it was an amazing time. Quite the breakthrough I would say. But if there is one thing I have learned is that no matter how high the cloud your on, in an instant things can change.

No matter how high you can feel you can drop like a lead balloon.
What I mean is. I will always be the tug of war between him and his kids.

They come first as they should and I am a close second. I guess I am feeling selfish in that I want a man who keeps me first or least have us both tied for first in different ways.

But I have to be thankful in he did put me first on saturday by taking a big step joining me, it felt more than real for a change. Well for me it sure did.

But it's Monday and the way things are he has to babysit tonite which I just found out 10 mins ago as did he apparently..normally monday is our night.
That sucks. That's reality, shit happens.

hello everyone,

STN, you have come unstuck, i will liss you very very much. you have the great insight in to things.
Allison, my dear whatever you do be prepared for the worst, and always always keep a part of you which is just yours... you will need that in tough times. if things go the right ways, you can give it as the commitment gift :-). this is what i have learnt.
As i said, i have put some distance, all all his attention etc has become more consistant. but my tears have washed the veil of my eyes, and i know that i have to move into a different life. i stuggle to find it, make mistakes stumbble, but i keep struggling with myself... that is what a MM relationship does to you keeps you routed in one spot, because there is no where to go, cant take it further, so there you are standing,(emotionally and physically) while his life is moving... so you begin to decompose, sometimes you become a cocoon... but if you start moving for yorself even little steps, make those tiny painful steps, it will help get life in, and with it more strength to stand on your own. that is exactly what happened when he came to you, you were strong, you coulf have been hurt, sad, unhappy but you were strong... somewhere your love made you so attached to him, that you forgot your strenght. you need to find that part of you.
Corinne, will keep reminding you to answer STN's question, what is it that this relationship gives you? if you answer that you could find your way out. please dwell on it...

love to all
dali

Thanks Dali

I have actually kept moving forward especially now that my loft will soon be ready this September or Novemember. I have never stopped living. I still go out and have fun with my friends. My MM is apart of my life in which he knows I would like to make permanent. He is well aware of that and that I can't wait for him forever.

Which all in all I think that's why he has been making alot more effort to help with our relationship. He doesn't want be to lose hope or faith and I haven't.
If I did I would have been long gone.

Friday is 18 months for us. WOW a year and half I have been with him.
It's so unreal. He is planning to spend some quality time with me tomorrow and friday. I blew him off tonite ;)

So I agree, it's a waiting game. But at least I know that I won't have to wait much longer, once I get my own place to live then and only then I can gauge how much longer I will wait for him. He knows this and trust me it scares the hell out of him. Because when I say something I do it and I do.

But something deep down inside me says it will all workout.

Love Allison.

Hi everyone. My name is Jules. I have been reading your posts and they have brought me great comfort. I have been dating a MM man for almost three years. He does not live with his wife, but for the past two years, he would travel two hours to visit his teenage daughter on the weekends. The daughter has been in college for a year now. He continues to go on the weekends claiming the daughter is at the home. Plus the wife takes care of the grandson which is from his other daughter. I have been on this roller coaster for too long and don't know how to get off. One minute he tells me how much he loves me and how he wants to marry me. Then he goes months before I ever hear another I love you. He says he wants to divorce his wife but claims she is sick. He feels guilty because his father left his mom when she was very ill. I don't see how she can be so sick if she's taking care of her grandson all by herself. I'm so confused on what to do. I have been divorced for four years. I have a nine year old son. I can't imagine my life without this MM. Right now he is overseas as a govt. contractor. He may not be back for several months. I have 1 year left before I become a teacher. I want to talk about planning our future but don't feel it's right to do so over the phone. It may sound weird, but you can tell so much by their facial expressions. He seems so sincere when he tells me he loves me, but I beginning to doubt it. He has been married for 25 years, has two grown daughters, but like I mentioned there is now a grandson involved whom he would love to adopt. Do you guys have any sound advice? I know I have been patient and it's now time to face the music. Please help. I'm driving myself crazy:(

Jules

Dear Jules,
You must prepare yourself for the break and then make it. It tis the only thing that might get him to commit to you anyway. They never make a choice until they absolutely have to and they almost never chose their mistress anyway (because they are not real men, they are children who try to take everything they want without respecting what they have). This is a fact, and you have to take care of yourself. I am sorry for your heart. So make yourself ready to be on your own again, follow through, watch him suffer the loss of you, see how it turns out. He will drive you more crazy, not less crazy, over time. You have to must make yourself okay.
AF

Hello Jules,

please now that you are apart, is a good time to get used to living without him. stop this affair, he could be using you. take care and in time you will find a better relationship.

dali

Hi ladies,
hope you're all fine, sorry I didn't post for a very long time but I needed time to figure things out... unfortunately I'm still at the same point. But feel much better, at least I know that I love him but I can also survive without him, it's not that I see him all the time.
Corinne how are you doing? I'm going to email you soon, hope you're fine. And Allison.. how are things going? Did your MM make any decision? Dali, I think you've made it, you sound much better.
As for you Jules, I know what are you going through but your MM seems very wishy-washy, which is a very common attitude among MM. So it's all up to you, you're the one who has to make up her mind, in either way or another. Consider that your MM is not even living with his wife, has grown up children.. so apparently there are no reasons preventing him from living with you. Looks like he's making up excuses to delay a final decision. If you feel you can't go on like this, be honest with yourself and leave him. Three years of this roller coaster are enough. Try to meet other people, other men. and who knows.. maybe you could find a better one. One advice: don't make yourself committed to him, don't play the role of the faithful fiancée waiting for her husband to be. You might be very disappointed. As Dali said, since he will be working abroad for a long time, try to build another life for yourself and your child in the meantime.
Love to you all
Lillybit

Hello my dear friends,

Allison, I'm glad to see you are moving forward happily with you plans for your new place, and accepting how things are (at the moment) with your MM. He seems to really love you, and also seems so conflicted with his direction. His children should come first, yes, but you should as well. Your catagories aren't the same, the children should be first as he is a parent, guiding and loving them. You should be first as his relationship, friend, lover and respected partner. It sounds like he does have you there, he's just trying to balance the two with his time. Time and patience is all you have, but continuing with your own plans is best as well. You are an inspiration, absolutely.

Jules, welcome to the page. I see so many similarities in things we all go through. I'm not sure if I were you I'd believe the "she's sick" line. My MM has played that card with me and I do believe it is complete bull. Perhaps to make me feel sorry for him. You do have to protect your heart, be prepared for the worst because, yes, unfortunately we usually end up on the losing side. However, 3 years is a long time. When he comes home, and you've had time to prepare for the worst, be honest with him. You have a future, plans, a life and you want him to be a permanent part of that life. Tell him he has a choice and either way, you are moving forward with or without him.

Dali and Lillybit, I'll e-mail you soon. I'm still trying. I feel I take 2 steps forward to breaking free and then 5 backwards. Bottom line is, he no longer seems to have time for me, and when he makes time he has all sorts of excuses why he's been "too busy" or "not alone". Apparenlty "she's" on some "happy" medicine now and things are calmer for him at home. He still calls, once or twice a week if I'm lucky, professes how much he loves me, wants me, blah blah blah. I'm hurting so much. In my head I hear myself say there is no time or place for me in your life, it's over. Unfortunately, once I hear his voice (when he calls me because you know I'm forbidden to call him) I melt like butter, and am terrified it's the last time I'll hear him. 20 years, and a daughter I didn't tell him about until now, I've loved this man so very deeply. I can't help but feel this is all my fault and whatever I'm going through, I deserve. I don't know.

Jamie, I miss you and do so hope you are blissfully happy.

I love you all, VERY MUCH!
Corinne

Where is everyone lately ?

I hope your doing better.

I am still hanging with my MM, he confessed to me that he isn't having any
sexual realtions with her since November, that was buggin me...He focuses on his son. I beleive he loves me he tells me every chance he can and how he has never felt this way before, he never knew and that even if she wanted too have sex he couldn't because of how much he loves me.

I can see the light. He knows I am not waiting, I have verbally told him,
he says so your going to go for a better offer..I said NO I don't need an offer to leave you. So make up your mind..he will and so will I..it's kind of like a game of chicken.

I know I will move into my new place..he will be there a month after or he won't. I am not waiting for anymore words, I need actions. Morning wakes, afternoon takes and evening fakes...I need him, as he needs me.

It might in itself take me away from him, so he can ring my bell and
ring it forever..there is a calmness inside of me. Not sure if it's all I have been through this year. But with him I know it will be and it won't..i will be ok.

but something funny is how things can change..he is insecure, that might make him secure for once by making a decision about me.

Love Allison

Hi everybody!
Allison is good to hear from you, you seem to be doing the right thing. It's time for your MM to make up his mind, one way or another. I'm refitting my place these days, I want a nicer place for me to live in, even if I'm not going to share it with anybody else. It's something I'm doing for myself only, after all I deserve it. I'm sick of acting thinking of others, sometimes a healthy selfishness it's of great help, at least this the lesson our beloved MM have taught us, let's take advantage of it. As for the rest, I'm still stuck with my MM but in a very different way. Now that I'm feeling stronger and better (my depression is under control) my perspective has also changed. The fact that he is and always will be staying married makes me feel very uneasy, not because I feel guilty towards his nice little family but because I feel guilty towards myself for a change, I'm sick and tired of all the humiliations he's constantly inflicting ... I'm fed up of being the last ring of his very long chain, every time he cancels a date or tells me unpleasant things I feel like being punched in my stomach. Of course I understand that he's no choice, he's in a very bad situation and I'm really sorry for him.. but this is what he wanted and I want more. I love him and it's difficult but I'm aware that there won't be any further developments for me. It's either this way or this way. Shit. Anyway Allison, you just stick to your guns and don't give up your decisions... and try not to give him further delays or he will never make up his mind.
Love to you all
Lillybit

Hi Guys

Been visiting this thread every once in awhile. I've explained my situation in 2 posts which have seem to have got lost in the system LOL, and emailed Daniella (How you doing girl??)

Please hang in there Ladies. I was never in love with my MM (because we both knew that this would be very difficult because of the circumstance - to fall for each other that is!) but we both had very, very strong feelings for each other and communicated openly and deeply.

I have only known him since December last year, and our situation seems so different from all of yours but it had faded so much recently (because of other circumstances). It’s a friendship now but with a lot of space, but I started focusing on myself and inevitably his marriage has just reached break point for both of them.

The bottom line is that you should take care of yourself and focus on the man you truly want – not the man you have met and have feelings for right now.

I don’t know what will happen after this break point but I know I’m gonna focus on me and whatever happens will happen!!

I know its hard ladies and I feel your pain – but take time out to think about what it “might” be like with someone else if your MM is not fulfilling your life … or your dreams!!

You never know … you might attract someone much, much better suited to you than your MM … or if he is supposed to be yours – he will be!!

Be strong, Take care and ultimately … love yourselves!!

I am new to this forum and have read through many of your stories, finding them very helpful and many so similar to my own. Like many of you, I have fallen helplessly in love with a married man. I believe he feels the same, but struggle to know if that will be enough.

As silly as it may sound, I believe we are meant for each other.

We've been dating for 8 months, the last 5 of which he's been assuring me that I am the love of his life and he will leave his wife. He says he doesn't love her anymore at all, just feels responsibility and is scared about all the consequences especially in terms of him seeing enough of his daughter, etc.

He has a beautiful little girl (age 2) who is still too young to realize what is going on and thus likes me a great deal. However, her being there makes it that much more difficult for the whole situation.

A week and a half ago he finally told her that he wanted a separation. However, he still hasn't really left. (When this happened, I was on the brink of leaving, but have given it more time due to the progress).

The problem is, although I should be happy about the progress (and I am), I fear that it isn't enough and I don't feel I can wait any longer. The days (and nights) that he is not with me and is with her are miserable.

We went away together last week for a week and it was wonderful, but now we are back and he is with her and i feel scared and unsure of what to do.

Part of me feels that I should make a stand and give him an ultimatum to actually move out and some part of me feels that if I believe in the long term, I must give him a little more trust and faith to do it his way.

The emotional roller coaster is killing me.

Anyway, thank you for listening and for all your posts.

Tara

Hi Tara

I know how hard it feels to wait, I have been with my MM for 18 months, but the real reality of his love for me and wanting to leave his wife and having a true life with me really began this year when I left my husband, Feburary to be exact.

He has made the first step to at least tell her what he wants "seperation".

You have to trust that he will be coming your way soon, be patient. If it's meant to be it will workout in the end. It's funny many people will say to pressure him but at this point he really needs support and if he is going to leave he can't be forced, he must want to go because of him.

On Friday, my MM said to me, what will happen if I just show up at your door one day and give you what you want, would you be suprised or regrettful?

I said this...That would be the happiest day of my life, and I ask only one thing of you. Bring one thing with you...NO REGRETS.

Welcome to the board,

Love Allison.

Hello my friends,
Allison, it sounds like you are doing wonderfully and moving towards a very happy and fulfilling time in your life. I'm so happy for you. YOUR MAN is very lucky to have such a beautiful supportive woman in his life and once you are together permanently you'll have true serenity. Patience is on your side, love is moving along with you, happiness is in your future. You are a strong, vibrant, intelligent and beautiful woman and you've made it, you are an inspiration to us all.

I so hope Jamie is doing just as well, I've heard nothing from her in months and part of me worries something has gone wrong and part of me believes she's found true happiness. I hope that's the case.

Lillybit, I hope you are doing well, it seems we are hanging in there aren't we.

As for my MM, well, today I'd have to say it's over, and it breaks my heart. I won't bore you with the details, but in the end we spoke a week ago, he was sad (not angry, not yelling just sad) to discover I wasn't moving there right now (at his request not to mind you). Our conversation ended with I love you's. He told me I always make him feel good, always make him happy and how miserable he is where he is now. It ended with I love you, bye. He called over the weekend and I couldn't call back. I haven't heard from him since. I don't think I will, I think time and space have just cost too much and I'm afaid that by not calling him back he assumes I'm finished with him. I can't call him as usual, unless he signals me that I can, so I'm trapped. Something just tells me he's done "tired of the phone shit" as he's said. My heart is very sad, I didn't want it to end, I'll love him forever.

I looked back over letters, e-mails and postings I've written. It amazed me the pain, sorry, anxiety, depression, and desperation I've been feeling over the past 8 months now. I've cried every day at this man's expense. All the horrible things he's said came flooding back, all the desperate acts I did to try and keep him, keep him happy, keep him wanting me. Did he really ever? I don't know.

I don't know if he'll call again. I know how deeply I'll always love him, but do I really want him to call..I don't know. I'm so confused, hurt, sad and angry.

I'm so grateful for all the love and support you have all given me, I truly love you all. You are very dear friends. Some seem to be gone, Danielle Jordan, Dali, Jamie and STN I do so hope you are all well.

Allison and Lillybit, here we are, you are my dearest friends, thank you for all these months for giving me a place to release all these feelings I've had bottled up inside me for 20 years and comforting me through it.

Tara, welcome to the board. I sounds like you are in a good place and a good situation. Step carefully, protect your heart and you'll find true happiness and love. Allison's advise is wonderful for you.

Until we write again, I love you all
Much Love
Corinne

It's getting to the point where I can't even read those stupid personal ads anymore, not even for fun.

They're loaded with married people, bitching about their spouses, and looking for something "better".

I've got a few things to tell you:

1. "She" is not the reason your marriage sucks. YOU are. If you spent half as much time paying attention to her as you do trolling sluts, your marriage would be a whole hell of a lot better.

2. Yeah, yeah, we've all heard it a thousand times. You're in a sexless marriage. First of all, that's probably a lie, because most cheaters are liars too. I'm gonna let you in on a little secret, pal- if your wife isn't interested in sex, it's because you're not offering sex that's interesting. Married guys get awfully boring after a while. They do the same boring thing the same boring way every fucking time and they expect you to scream like a porn star. Seriously, you come home from work, totally ignore her while she chases the kids around for 4 hours, makes dinner, does the laundry, blah blah blah, and then you expect her to roll over with her legs open for another session of same-old same-old? When are you idiots going to learn that the best foreplay in the world for a woman is watching you take care of the kids, vacuum the floor, pick up the dog poo in the backyard. Or how about just listening when she talks? You know, it's not that fucking hard to stop thinking about yourself for five minutes and hear what she has to say. Think about it- way back when, when you were getting your brains fucked out on a regular basis- what were YOU doing differently than you're doing now? Planning dates, telling her she looked nice, acting like you're happy to be with her? A thousand dollars says if you do that stuff again you'll get the same result.

3. Your kids are NOT the reason you're staying married. If you were THAT miserable, you'd leave whether you had kids or not. If you're not getting a divorce it's because YOU DON'T WANT TO. For whatever reason. At least be honest and don't try to feed people that tired bullshit line about staying married for the kids. Contrary to what you think, it doesn't make you look like a poor suffering but honorable victim. You obviously don't care enough about your kids to treat their mother with enough respect not to cheat on her, and you don't care about them enough to spend time with THEM instead of some cheap whore, so cut it out with that crap. There is absolutely nothing honorable about putting your dick ahead of your kids. If you really really cared about them, you would put ALL your time and effort and money into saving the one thing that means most to them in the whole world- your marriage and their family. Otherwise you're full of shit.

4. We all know how bored you are. Poor you, someone should really come along to entertain you. What are you, fucking 12 years old? If you're bored with your marriage, it's because YOU'RE BORING, and have you ever stopped to think that if you're bored, she probably is too. But instead of throwing a temper tantrum like a 2 year old, she's at home cleaning out the lint trap on the dryer and washing kool-aid off the kitchen floor. Yeah, she's having a fucking riot washing your skid marks from your underwear and cleaning up cat puke. Marriage is hard work. Hell, life is hard work. Grow the fuck up and take some responsibility for yourself. You have a brain, USE it. Put some thought into your marriage and some effort into your life and stop blaming her and being a baby because life isn't fun.

5. You're looking for someone "younger". Sure you are. Dickhead. You think you look the same as you did when you got married? I'd bet not. Even if you do, you haven't spent the last 10 years having babies (the ones YOU wanted) and sacrificing your body for them. The next time you have to have someone stitch your asshole together because your just pushed a watermelon out of your butt, then you can sqwauk. If you ever spend 9 months with your belly stretched to obscene proportions, and manage to look exactly the same as you used to 6 weeks later, then you can bitch about how she's not attractive anymore. Until then, shut the fuck up. You have no concept of what she has sacrificed to give you the children you claim to love. You really think she wants varicose veins and stretch marks and saggy boobs? Get real. What she wants is a man who understands and values WHY she has varicose veins and stretch marks and saggy boobs. She wants a man who loves her because she was willing to make those sacrifices with her own body because she loves HIM. Instead, you criticize and go running off with the first perky 25 year old who gives you the time of day. Asshole.

6. And finally, if you're cheating on your wife, there's something wrong with YOU. If you're not happy with your marriage, exactly how do you think fucking some slut is going to fix that? Exactly how is that going to make anyone happy? Have you ever actually heard of adultery working out really well for everyone involved? Are you actually stupid enough to think that you're going to be the exception to that rule? If so, you are delusional and you need professional help. Affairs are disasters- not some of the time, not most of the time, ALL OF THE TIME. You guilt will drive you crazy. Someone WILL find out. You will NOT be able to keep up the lies and the deception. And it will all lead up to a disaster of epic proportions, which leads me to Lucky #7.

7. Here's what you can expect in the wake of your little fuck-fest:

Divorce- this is where you lose everything- your wife, your house, half your income and possessions, possibly your job if you're stupid enough to be fucking around with a co-worker, your kids- EVERYTHING. You will LOSE IT ALL.

Exposure- this is where everyone finds out what a scumbag you are. And they WILL find out. Your boss, your co-workers, your friends, your family, HER family, your neighbors, the parents of your kids' friends, everyone at your church. They WILL find out. Why? Because your now ex-wife will tell them. She will probably tell everyone she knows, and everyone you know, and she will feel good doing it. Consider yourself lucky if she doesn't rent a billboard. Otherwise, all bets are off. Be prepared.

Your Kids- this is where you totally lose the respect of your kids, and you deserve to lose it. They will realize in pretty short order that you didn't care enough about them to keep your fucking pants on. They will see their mother cry and they will hate you for it. They will end up shuttling back and forth between their home and your apartment, and they will hate you for it. Every time they have to tell someone that their parents are divorced, they will hate you for it. And God forbid you decide to "introduce" them to your shiny new soulmate/fuckbuddy, they will REALLY hate you for that. If your kids are really young, you have a little time before all this shit hits the fan, but be warned, it's coming. They will forever see you as the moron who broke up their family. They will know that you can't be trusted, that you are weak and immoral and selfish. And they'll figure it out all by themselves, even if you never talk to them about it. Because your kids are smarter than you are at this point.

So, go ahead and whine your pathetic bullshit about how you're a victim and your wife is a horrible shrew. Do your best to convince yourself that you didn't have any choice and your wife "drove you to it." Start with the rationalizations and justifications now, you're going to need a lot of them. Remember that the best defense is a good offense and start a mental list of all the ways your wife is deficient. Make sure to re-write the history of your marriage so that you can say that you were miserable from the first day. Be sure to tell your wife that you love her, you're just not "in love" with her anymore. Deal with your guilt by lashing out at everyone around you. Above all, take no responsibility for any problems YOU may have that caused you to be such a spineless bastard in the first place.

Congratulations, you've just joined the Adulterers Club. See you in hell.

Who is the married man? First of all he is a man. Men are results oriented. Men have a lot of testosterone. They aren't good at deciphering what women want, especially their own wives.The married man used to run his own life. He came and went as he pleased; he watched or played baseball whenever he wanted. He lived his own lifestyle. He could have his woman withhim whenever hewanted and she would pay all of her attention to him. Now he is marriedwith a couple of kids, a mortgage, a job he has because it pays themost, not because he loves it so much and a wife who used to cater to him exclusively who now has to divide her time between him, the kids, the house and usually her job. There was a commercial on TV not too long ago that shows a man thinking about his studly single days and how sexy he was in those days, with a child in a stroller. He is playing with his child and shopping in the grocery store and a woman is talking to her friend who comments he doesn't even know how much more attractive he is now than he was when he was a stud.

Men are pretty unconscious about what makes them attractive.

According to most women it is not their looks that make them attractive, it is who they are and how they produce in the world. So this married man goes to work and comes home and goes back to work the next day. At work there is this woman. She is single, attractive, smart, capable, speaks his language andsomeone who has time to pay attention to him. It starts as an innocent flirtation. What goes through his mind is something like "Let's see if I still have it!" so he starts flirting just to see what happens. Not a surprise, she responds to the flirting by flirting back.

This is the beginning of the affair.

In his mind he is flattered, it is fun, and exciting and just a little bit naughty. What could be more harmless? I'm married.I'm safe. I can just have a little fun with this. So it continues.He thinks he can just experiment a little. Let's see how charming and creative I can be. Let's see if I can get this woman to fall for me. In his mind it is not cheating. He hasn't done anything wrong. In the beginning, he even tells his wife about this woman. He tells her about how smart she is or about some accomplishment, usuallywhat made him notice her in the firstplace. Wives usually miss the first clues. The thought of the effect of his harmless flirtation onthe single woman does not even enter his consciousness. So the harmless flirtation continues. It makes the married man feel good. He is happier at home and everything seems hunky dory. He tells the woman his wife doesn't understand him, she doesn't have time for him, or she just is cruel to him and the other woman becomes his confidant and starts to believe that he really has no choice in the matter. He needs her because his wife is so … whatever.

He now has both a wife and family and a woman on the side.

Recognize that this process may take several years and several different women before anything actually happens in the way of an affair. After several years of living a separate life from his wife while they live under the same roof, a married man is ready for a real affair. The reality is that an affair will occur whether it is an emotional or physical affair or even a cyber affair. No matter which way it goes, what occurs takes away from the married relationship.

What is true about the woman who gets involved with a married man is that she is looking for attention and affection.

Most likely she is not looking for a married man with whom she is plotting to have an affair. There are a few predatory women out there who do just that but the majority of affairs start out naively. She is likely to have been previously hurt in a relationship. She may or may not know that the man is married. What occurs first is she recognizes that he is paying attention to her. He may just listen to her. It may just be a momentary encounter where their eyes meet and a connection is made. They may be working together on a project and either of them may distinguishthemselves in some way. What initially happens is likely to be chemistry. What happens after that varies, however, it usually follows this pattern.

When the woman discovers that he is married, she will make it clear that she doesn't have relationships with married men.

That is the signal for the man to go into conquest mode.

He will pursue her possibly for years because he enjoys the chase. She will continue to refuse his advances as long as she cantolerate it or until he catches her at a weak and vulnerable moment. If she has a good relationship in her life, chances areshe can outlast him, but if she is single, available or married and unhappy, she will eventually succumb. Why? Because the man is so charming, heis wonderful, he is a knight in shining armor, he is a hero, he is this wonderful dedicated family man who is wonderful with his children and attentive to his wife. So the woman asks herself what is she doing?

She continues to say no and the more she says no, the more aggressive and charming and attentive he gets. This is the ultimate male challenge, to win over a woman who is saying no even though he knows she really is attracted to him.

A married man will work harder than any available man to make a woman fall in love with him.

He will be more charming, loving, attentive and wonderful than a woman can imagine that any man can be. So what happens next is this woman who finally surrenders to her feelings for this man, asks him to leave his wife for her. The response from him will almost inevitably be one of two, but I'm married and I'll neverleave my wife or yes, I'll leave my wife, but not yet (she's not ready,my children are too young, I can't afford it yet, my mother won't approve etc.) Initially the woman will respond with anger. "If you love your wife what are you doing with me?" Here is the clincher that finally hooks the woman, he is committed to his wife and the woman buys into his honorable dedication to his wife and thinks if only I could have a man who loves me like that.

It is at this point in their relationship that the woman's final act of settling may occur.

Either she will end it and go off to nurse her broken heart, wondering how he could have been so wonderful and such a heel atthe same time, or she will continue the affair and settle forbeing the other woman in his life. Either way the woman is damaged. The man will go back to his wife who was either completely unaware of the romantic drama or who also chooses to settle by living in denial of his infidelity. Then life goes on.

The other woman plays a significant part in the perpetuation of this man's marriage.

She makes it tolerable for him to remain in an intolerable situation. She makes it possible for him to remain in a marriage that doesn't satisfy him. That marriage situation can range from boredom to outright contempt, but a man won't leave his marriage until his wife has dismissed him, either consciously or unconsciously. She makes it possible for him to deny that there is anything missing in his relationship with his wife. Therefore, the wife wins, if you can call it winning to stay ina relationship with a cheating man.

The purpose in discussing this at all is to emphasize the fact that women settle and men will cheat because they can.
It is impossible to ever have that kind of trust if you enter a relationship that originated with someone cheating.

that was so right ,thank you for sharing your info ,,i just got destroyed by an egotisitic bastard who continues to screw around on me and his wife,,exwife but i am beginning to wonder if they finished their divorce he turned on me about 3 years after we moved intogether ,,it like his divorce turned whim into a mad man wanting to screww everything walking including my friends ,,and it is only getting worse i became dependent on him for everything money home,,he did it all for me i really believed he loved me,,i was in a relationship when i met him,,and he convinced me to get out of it he moved out of the home he and his wife shared and filed for divorce had me quit my job,,and supported me in every way he loved and adored me for about 2 years and now the last 3 years have been hell,,real hell, he cheats and lies i never know where he is or who he is with he makes every on think i am crazy and that i don't trust him,,they all think he such a great guy its like being in a twilght zone movie even his ex-wife thinks its all my fault she was married to him for 23 years and he did nothing but cheat on her,,listen ladies cheaters never change and their lies are what will make you go nutts ,,i am all alone i have no one except my child he is not the father thank god i could use all the help i can get,,its hard but i have been staying away from him.,.but he has cut me off and i am about to lose my apartment and everything else i have including my mind,,please help if you can,,i realize what i terrible mistake i made,,by meeting him i will pay the rest of my life never never ever believe a cheater..

the best thing you can do when you realize what a sick, unfair thing it is to be a married man's other woman? the best thing you can do is appreciate what you learned, what you got out of it, and i mean it. be glad for what it made you see about yourself, make the things in you that were weak into strong things. i was ruined, i felt like i had 1,000 burning knives in my stomach when i realized how bad things were for me, and how easy they were for the man i had the affair with. those men are children, they don't know how to love, they know how to manipulate and get us to gratify them. you fell at a moment of weakness, this is true for all/most of us.
you are not alone, start to wake up to the chances you have around you to connect with people who treat you with respect. remember that you belong on this planet, reclaim your right to be here as a whole person without this guy you've been seeing. look for love in people who can give it to you in a healthy way, and make sure you give lots of love out in a healthy way. make your life what you want it to be. and remember your limits, don't let anyone convince you to lower your standards anymore. this will make you feel good again eventually. listen carefully to your heart. sadness and fear have to be set aside before you can hear what your heart is really saying, so find a way to lift them. release all of your unresolved emotions, let them go, and then you'll hear what your heart has to say. it's giving you the answers you need. it wants you to take better care of yourself, it wants you to be happy and find healthy sources of joy. when we're happy, nature is telling us that we're living in harmony with all that is around us. if you're not feeling happy, there's some problem that wants your attention and it needs for you to find the remedy. that's all obvious stuff, but sometimes it helps to hear it in times of trouble. you will be better in time, and in fact, there's a part of you that's ok right now, you just need to get in touch with that part of yourself. cheaters don't deserve our grief. we give them too much value and ourselves too little value when we suffer for them.

To the woman suffering for 3 years now with her MM.

It hurts, god knows it does and we all understand that, honey you aren't alone. Your man lied, cheeted and begged to get you right where he wanted you. Sure, his charm was appealing in the beginning, and the way wanted to take care of you, hell we all want to be taken care of. Unfortunately the fact is he's a liar, born and bread a liar. Nothing or no one can change that. If the divorce isn't truly final, let the ex have him. If she's blaming it on you, she's blind and she deserves him. He isn't worth your tears.

It will be difficult but cut your losses, take your child and run like the wind. You are so better off without him. The love you have for him will linger for a while, but in time it won't hurt as much and you'll realize it was a fantasy you were in love with, not a real man.

Best wishes my dear friend. There are rough seas ahead of you and that is what we women here are for, to make the trip a little calmer. Be strong, you'll be just fine.

Dear friends,
first I hope you all are doing fine. It's ages we don't post here but I'm sure that from time to time you log in and check what's new.
As you may guess I've come to the end of my affair. After months of ups and downs, of endlessly break ups and reconciliations I've really had enough. It happened yesterday, we met at my place, had wonderful love making and lunch but then something went wrong, as usual he managed to deeply hurt me. It seems that he can never miss the opportunity to highlight that his wife and family come first. He just wants to make clear that we're in a futureless relationship and I simply realized that I want a relationship with a future, with plans and with someone who's here for me. Probably I won't get it, so far I've failed but it's better to be on my own than being constantly reminded that yes he loves me, needs me but he'll never be with me. Fuck him and his bloody family. Sorry for saying that, but I don't feel like being politically correct any more. For two years now I've been paying while he had it all. A caring family and my love. His wife had a caring husband and ignored he was having an affair and what did I have? I tell you what, a fucking nothing... sex twice a month (or even less in the last few months), dinner twice a month and that's all. If I felt lonely and depressed and sick or whatever, he was never here. Oh yes, he texted me saying how sorry he was I weren't feeling well and of course he wished he was with me.. but of course he couldn't. It was a sort of virtual relationship. But I'm a practical woman and I want facts not words, I want the real thing not the wish-I-was things.
So we both decided that it's better if we disappear from each other's view for a while. Of course I'm not feeling at my best now, it's difficult to accept the fact that after two years of daily contacts we won't be texting or emailing or calling each other any more. But I have to put an end to this agony. This kind of relationships cannot work, or at least it didn't work for me, it was too unbalanced and I got the worse of it.
I'm aware that I was and still am sort of addicted to him and to get out of this relationship is like detoxing from a drug addiction, that's why we both preferred a sharp cut to the usual shilly-shallying.
One more thing which is also an advice to those who think that being with a married man is something you can control, something you can manage or drop anytime. It's not like this, in the beginning you tell yourself that's ok, that you know he's married and that you are just the lover, the other woman but you accept that and just because of that you won't be falling in love with him. This is bullshit because before you know it, you'll be in love with him and want more and you won't get it. A MM is like AIDS, if you know him you avoid him.
That's it. Sorry for this long rant and thanks for being here.
I would like to read from you, Allison, Corinne, DanielleJordan and all the other friends who posted here some months ago.
Lots of love
Lillybit

Break up is always excruciating. All one can say is 'hang in there'! That was one phase of life- another will unfold, slowly but surely. One that will see you going from strength to strength.

What can one add? Men are different. Its like, I have my wife/ my kids- now let me go get a 'mistress/ lover/ girl friend/ 2nd wife (?)'- which is the worst and least socially accepted title? That is all there is to it. Is it pride of acquisition? No matter how disgraceful/ humiliating it must be for the so called 'other woman'? That is all there is to it. If the man cares and cares enough (not free and safe sex), then he would not allow this for the person he professes to love/ care for. Would he? Would you? Never, I am sure. If someone does not have or show that care, genuine feelings/ emotions, then may be its best gone. Life would be tough. Your emotions are lying on the floor, naked, wounded and abandoned. You need to shelter yourself. Leave the past behind, chin up, walk on. Every relationship has to go somewhere, sooner or later. Not fester. If it was not working out, then so be it. Your lover made his choice. As you did- and rightly so.

Spend time for/ with yourself. Travel. Run. Smile. Sun is still shining. And there is always a tomorrow!

Hello to all my dear friends, Lillybit, Danielle Jordan, Allison, Dali, Jamie and STN:

I want you all to know how much I value you, your friendship, your understanding and your advise. You took me under your wings, cared for me and treated me as an individual with real feelings and value. I love you all and will for the rest of my days. I miss you, I miss talking with you and hearing how things are in your lives. I pray that you are all doing well and finding TRUE love and happiness.

My relationship with my MM has fallen to the fate of all relationships based on infidelity, crashed and burned. I haven't heard from "that man", since I can't say "my" man, in almost a month. He's completely cut me off. His last words to me were "I love you very much, I wish you were here, I'll call you later", and that was it, almost a month ago. That is a long damn time desperately holding on to a cell phone that never rings. I should have ended it when "she" came back months ago, I definitely should have ended it when his words became ugly and grotesque, most importantly I should have been the one who ended it. So why am I the one feeling lost, tossed aside and alone. It's heartbreaking.

So I move on, day by day. Dreaming of him, thinking of him, constantly wondering what went wrong or if something happened to him. Closure is something I'll never have, a fact I'll have to learn to live with. I guess I got what I deserved, but I suppose I should be grateful, I got off easy, I'm free of him. SHE is the one stuck with him. I just wish I didn't still love him. How does one release that.

I'm leaving this site too my dear friends. I signed on almost a year ago and when I look back at all my entries, the pain this man has caused me over the last year it saddens me even more then losing him. He's turned me into someone I'm not, a shaken timid little girl. Perky is what I used to be, and what I want to get back to. It's going to be a long road, and healing will be difficult, but I'll get through and mainly because of what you all here have done for me, my friends, you've guided me in the right direction, now I'm on my way.

To all you ladies considering an affair with a married man, whether he's an "old friend", “old love” or co-worker, the neighbor or a enemy's man, please for your own sake DON'T DO IT. You WILL fall in love with him, he will lie to you, he will hurt you and it will be miserable. Save yourself first, forget being decent to the wife, be decent to yourself and remember, she's the one stuck with him, not you. A woman once said to me, “they always come back to the wife”, well honey you can have him. Who wants a lying, cheating no good son of a bitch anyway. They manipulated us into these relationships, now it’s time to toss them back.

Lillybit, Danielle Jordan, Dali, Allison, Jamie and STN: I love you ladies, I always will. If we've been e-mailing, I'll still drop a line from time to time. Write me too.

Allison, I do hope your situation worked out and you've found love and happiness.
Jamie, the same for you. You came through and were together after all. I hope it's worked out for you.
Dali, I don't know where you are, but wherever it is, I hope you are happy!

I love you ladies. Thank you for saving me this past year. I surely wouldn't have survived without you!
Much Love
Always!
Corinne

Hello my dear friends,
just a few lines to let you know that my relationship is over too. After exactly two years of ups and downs, more downs than ups actually, of humiliations, of failure to accept that he is married, hence his family comes first and more, I resign from the privileged position of OW. Of course I'm not feeling 100% but I'll get out of that.
So after Dali, STN, Corinne it's my turn to say goodbye and to thank you for the true help you provided.
Allison hope you're ok and I wish you all the best.
I'd like to keep in touch with you all, so if you feel like doing it, please email me: lillybit.one@gmail.com.
Thanks again. Lots of love

Lillybit

Hey Gals

I wanted to check in and say HI and update you on me. I am really sad to hear that most of you have ended your relationships, for the best I know as you only know what's best for you.

I guess so far I am one of the lucky ones, I am still with my MM and he has started his "exit plan" he has verbally and emotionally committed to leave and spend the rest of his life with me. We plan on moving in together when my loft is ready this fall (fingers crossed), things are going so well for us.

The big turning point for him as I thought, instead of me pushing I walked away.I went to Florida for 5 days, that killed him and he realized that he can't risk losing me. Even if it's going to be tough he wants to be with me..the Love of his life..in his words it's taken me 45 years to find true love and I am not about to lose it.

I am happy and content, time will truly see if it will all come together. But I believe in us, I always have.

Hope this gives some hope out there. I will check in soon to update again.

Love you all...

Hello Dear Allison!

I actually singed on one more time to check and see if you had signed on. I was so glad to see your note and to hear things are going so very well for you. You should no longer refer to him as your MM, he is now YOUR man. However, MM can fit well to MY MAN, so I guess it can still be appropriate.

I'm so happy for you Allison. The song "Love will always Win" by Garth Brooks and Trisha Yearwood suits you both so well. Your love has won, I just can't tell you how happy that makes me for you. Best wishes always. I'll check back from time to time to see how you are, or you could e-mail me at corinne_40@yahoo.com.

My MM has called only a couple of times. His life is changing drastically right now and as usual, and as in the past 20 years for the two of us, there is no room for me with him. There never was a place for me with him, there never will be. I'm trying to accept that, finally. He was supposed to have called last week, but as usual, he didn't. I'm almost hoping he doesn't, I need to move on and can't do that when he calls. The mere sound of his voice makes me melt like butter and I fall to my old bad habits. My heart and my mind know it's over. He has said he loves me and wants to get this started but the problem is, he doesn't see the difference between loving me and just wanting to have sex with me. There's a huge difference, at least for me there is. Anyway, I try to move on and keep hoping he doesn't call, even though that is very hurtful, it's for the best.

Allison, I wish you all the best this love and happiness can bring you. Sounds like you'll be together for the holidays. Enjoy, be happy, be loved!

Much love!
Corinne

I just happened on stumble on your discussions and am in the same situation as many of you.I've been married for 16 years and have 4 children.I found out last september that my husband was cheating on me.I was so desperate that i confided to one of his employeees and ended up falling desperately in love with him.He too is in a relationship.He's 10 years younger than i and we've been together since febuary.He told me he loved me and that he never felt like this with anyone else not even his girlriend of 4 years.He even talked about marriage and having children together.We were inseperable sending each other sms's and going out together whenever possible.
She eventually found out about us and threatened to call my husband.He then left the company and moved to another state with her.We still send each other emails and i miss him so much it hurts.I know that i should try to forget him but i can't....i love him too much.I know now he will never leave her.I feel so lost without him.

Hey Corinne

Well he isn't my man until he officially tells her he's leaving and actually does, right now we are at the brink and somethings got to give soon.

This past weekend his wife said how miserable she is and he is the cause of her anxiety and she had asked him to leave and a get his own place. He has realized that it might be sooner or later that he will have to leave. The conversation was never resolved, more avoidance than anything. The conversation will have to be dealt with and a solution will have to be done, either way with or without me he needs to end this marriage, it's totally unhealthy.

So with that being said I am still remaining strong and hoping he will do the right thing, one way or another, I am not waiting around once my loft is ready.
However he did ask me that if it all goes down sooner, if I would want to live with him for the interm.

This story is coming to and end very soon..or a new chapter..stay tuned...

Hang in there Corinne, sooner than you know it, he will be a distant memory.

I wish you all the love in the world.

hello everyone,

coming back to say hello... my MM is no longer my MM. we said goodbye. so its been difficult, but i am surviving...
Allison wishing you luck
Corrine, take care
STN if you come on here, there is a hello here for you.

take care
Dali

Hello my dear friends,
Allison and Dali, you seem to be the only ones left here. I've been off for a while, checked back in and decided to drop another line.

Allison, your MM wants to be with you, this much is obvious. Whether or not he has the courage to do what it takes is up to him. I do so pray the new chapter is a beautiful one with the beginnig to new happiness. You hang in there too.

Dali, I'm sorry you and your man have seperated. Believe me my heart is aching for you so, I know exactly what you are feeling. I know you'll get through it, I'm afraid I have no words of advise on how to achieve that, but I know you are strong and will come through. Please keep your chin up.

I can't honestly say I know what's going on with me, my MM keeps me in the dark all the time with vague answers to anything I talk about unless it's related to sex. We go from beautiful conversations and expressions of love to erotic grotesque conversation. He's left her, for now anyway, but is very vague on whether he's going back. Currently he's with family and has been for about 7 weeks, but still to far away for me to see him face to face. God knows I want to see him. When he left it was "I'm never going back" now it's more "I don't know, I can't answer that". Why I love this man I have no idea, but for whatever reason, I do and it's KILLING ME. I'm not dealing with it well, but I'm trying. I think at this point I just want to know, either we are going to be together or not. If not, just let me move on then, for crying out loud. Know what I mean. I need this stressful chapter to end, and if it ends here for he and I then so be it, at least I'd have some sense of closure. It would be devastating as you all know, but I could pick up, dust off, and move on.

I love you ladies, and pray you are doing ok. I'll check back a few times a month to see how you are. Thank you for being my friends.

Much Love
Corinne

I feel so lost and alone, no one to talk to, no one to understand. Some would say I got what I deserved I suppose, and maybe they'd be right.

There is a fact though, the fact is he loved me first, years before she came around (the bitch). I was his first and we have a daughter together. The sad fact is, he cares nothing about the child or me, not anymore. He's not with her now, but he will be again because I think it's there he wants to be, her he wants to be with. I was merely the sex kitten he wanted to keep on the side, hidden to use for sex and have more babies with. Babies he wanted me to "keep quiet about" so not to cause any trouble. She's the "wife" the "life" and a sense of normalcy, I serve no value, useless. Not even worth 5 minutes to call and tell me what is going on.

This life is useless to me, I'm tired of it. Tired of being kicked around, egnored and abused. I just don't want it anymore.

Some will say "pull yourself together", but I've tried only to be cut down again and again. I can't do it. I'm so lost, hurt, confused. Why couldn't he just love me, love me the way he claimed he did. Or, let me go.

I'm sorry,
Corinne

hey girl,

he is an idiot, we both know that. those were just words of a very weak man. i can hear myself in your words... but they do not know the first thing about love. it is not love and these are people who are weak and live only sheilding themselves. nothing will come out of this. so dont even think of anything. you have got used to getting used. please get help. seriously, you need to break this pattern

i understand what you feel, but it is something you need to get help for.

take care
dali

Hello my dear friend Dali,
It is so nice to have you here. I know he's an idiot, that is the one truth I do know, but unfortunately, I love this idiot. It's over now, for REAL this time. HE ended it yesterday. I knew it was coming, whether it be yesterday, in a week or a month from now, it was inevitable. He demanded a few things that if I didn't come up with, he was "done" with me, and there was no way I could come up with them. One was get him $2000, money he claimed he wanted to spend on me. I'd told him I don't want material things, I just wanted him, to be with him, to fulfill all the dreams we talked about. He said get the money or I'm blocking all your calls for good. Second, he wanted me to find some stranger and have sex with him in my car while he listened on the phone. Basically he wanted me to be his porn star, that's all I ever was to him. He should have been a porn star, it suits him. Sex is nothing but a sick grotesque game to him. So, yesterday when I wouldn't mess around with a total stanger in my car, making a complete and utter slut of myself, he called me an f'n liar and said "forget this don't call me anymore, ever". Then he shut his phone off. I left 4 embarrassingly desperate messages on his voice mail I'm afraid, I mean he really wrecked me with how angry and evil he got about it. I'm certain those messages made him even more mad, especially the first one where I was just angry and yelling, he won't be calling me anymore. I haven't tried to call him, I kinda wonder if he did block my number but I'm not willing to try and find out. I also had an encounter with the wife who has instructed me to not call the house anymore (he'd forgotten to erase my number from the caller ID). In all actuality she's right, I shouldn't be calling but what she doesn't know is I only call him if he calls me first. That's been our "code". I never initiate it, not usually. In our "conversation" she described him as an unfaithful, untrustworthy drunk basically since they got married and yet she says she still loves him. That makes her even more of a fool then I am I suppose. I felt guilty (even though I was not physical with him)about the emotional affair I've had with him over the last 18 months (remember my physical affair with him was 18 years ago, long before he ever met her)and I feel sorry for her, she said shes been through alot with him over the last 10 years and knowing what I know about him now, I can only imagine the hell it's been.

Anyway, now that my MM feels I'm a liar and he won't get out of me what he wanted, his claimed love turns out to be pure filthy lust and my loves turns in to agonizing pain and loss. I hope it's true, time heals all wounds. I can't help but wonder, is he sorry for what he said, is he thinking about me, does he even care.....probably not.

I'll be back to let you know how things are going for me. I think the one difference in my situation of everyone elses is my MM is the biggest asshole of them all!

How are you holdig up Dali, did you and your MM say good bye on mutual terms? How are you getting along? Any words of wisdom for me on how to deal with this?

If you can e-mail me I'm still at corinne_40@yahoo.com We've e-mailed before but I wasn't sure if you had the same address any longer.

I love you my friend!
Much Love
Corinne

My dear friends, if ever there was a time I wanted to die now is it. not only is it OVER between THE MM and I, he has tossed me to the curb (and thrown me under the bus), but he had is sister call me to tell me to stop calling him, told me to leave them alone that I’m am an interference for he and his bitch. His damn sister for crying out f'n loud. How did I go from Wednesday him leaving me a message saying “I just wanted to say that I love you” to this. I can’t even describe this pain, it is overwhelming. I did nothing wrong, nothing. So I wouldn’t have sex with a total stranger in my car so he could listen to it on the telephone. I told him I was committed to him, wanted to be with him, not a total stranger. I tried to think of the things he said I never do that he’s asked me, well; not having sex with strangers and either taping it or having him listen is one of them; driving to him at the drop of a hat; leaving my husband right now and living on my own until he calms down so I could be with him; oh, I almost forgot, the $2000 I didn't get that for him immediately either. (he'd told me to get that or else) Those are the things I didn’t do. And that all makes me a liar so now he’s telling everyone I was calling him, I was the one harassing him, me. What the hell. I have 80 missed calls on my phone from him, 80, and I’ve recorded to tape 13 messages he left for me on voice mail from how much he loves me, wants to F me, watch me get F'd and watch him get F'd. All his sick little fantasies, I put it all to tape to cover myself if I have to. I can’t believe this is happening, I can't belive he'd hurt me this much or that he lied to ME so much. What the hell did I do? I love(d) him, god this hurts so much.

This doesn't seem survivable. If he wanted to "dump" me his simple words of "don't f'n call me any more" last Thursday was enough, he didn't have to have others call me to remind me he doesn't want me, didn't want me, doesn't love me...never did. He's destroying me.

Corinne

Hi Ladies--It's Jules.

It's been awhile for me. I'm sorry to hear of so much pain. I can truly relate. I had told you guys that my MM has been in Iraq and we have been on shaky ground. The first month he was there, he told me how much he loved and how he wanted to marry me. Soon after, his father dies. He had not seen his father in 30 years and regrets not being able to say goodbye. I totally understand how painful this must have been. Nonetheless, I sensed he was pulling away. He rarely answered my calls. When I confronted him, he says he wants to call only when he feels like he has something to say. This threw me for a loop. I tried to be respectful and give him space. During our last conversation, he says I picked the wrong guy and blah, blah, blah. I asked if he was wanting to end the relationship and he said no but he felt guilty for not being able to give me what I needed. Anyway, he does his typical I'm tired now but I'll call you tomorrow. Can you believe after 3 years of being together, he never calls back. He will not answer my calls or send at least an email. He literally threw me away like garbage. I have never felt so much pain in my life. I'm seeing a counselor. It helps a little, but I can't help but miss him. It scares me to think I may never have proper closure. Will I ever trust again. I feel like my life is cursed because I don't think I could ever love another man. All of my energy and inspiration is gone. I pray that all of you find peace. I suppose that is all we can really do sometimes is just pray for mercy from this tremendous heartache:(

I'll check in on all of you soon!

Jules

Hello Jules,
I'm afraid my heartache is too strong at the moment to offer any good advise or words of wisdom. I haven't heard back from my MM either, and our "relationship" has gone on for 20 years, I thought perhaps I deserved better then "don't ever call me again" but I guess I didn't. What's worst is I don't even really know what I did wrong.

I'd say you aren't alone, and you aren't, but I know that doesn't help how you feel. Kind of like when someone says been there done that. God I hate that statement. I'm afraid we are a typical statistic of being the proverbial "other woman", always wind up on the painful side of the relationship, or at least in most cases. It sucks, plain and simple.

Just hang in there, day by day. I'm told the pain gets easier, I pray so. I feel in my situation I got what I deserved, I put myself in this situation, I created this pain all by myself, now I have to live with it. I just can't right now, this is unbearable at the moment. I'm feeling the same feeling of loss, rejection and abandonment you are. Maybe knowing you aren't alone in that respect will give you solice.

Please try to hang in there, I am.

Much Love
Corinne

hello girls,

it hurts yes, it hurt more, and then it fades, it comes back... and then it fade. slowlily it comes back less. but you have to work on it, everytime you remember him, stop the thought, dont wander into the memories, or into what i said, what he said. dont enen think, what will i say when he calls... or what can i do to make this better...
every time the memory come, acknowledge it, and put away. tell yourself, i dont want to think of this because it is over, it has no place here.
after about 4 weeks you will see the change in yourself. meditation too helps. there will be times when you will still pick up the phone and try to call, but that will get less intense. and the pain you feel from them not answering it will also be short lived...

there is hope, but you have to work on it.

take care
Dali

Corinne,

Thanks for responding. I'm sorry for your pain. I know no words can give true comfort. Like you said, knowing we are not alone helps. Whenever the pain finally does subside, I suppose I can say I can handle almost anything. Besides the death of a loved one, I don't think it can get much worse than this. A common thread among people I talk to says I have to learn to let go. I know this is a cliche but it is true. Once I let go, I know I will be free. But letting go is truly the hardest part. In a way it means I let go of hope. But then I try to put things in perspective and remember all the insensitive things this man has done to me. Is this the man that deserves me? I think I become so fixated on this man's potential or how I can rescue or fix him, that I forget about my own self worth. Every day I pray for mercy and try and give this situation into a higher force. I know what you mean though. I created this pain all by myself and somehow I have to untangle the web. Hang in there. You are never alone. Somehow we will rise above and understand why this happened. Sometimes I'm a glutten for punishment, but I have to believe some good must come from this. You and everyone in this forum are in my prayers:)

Jules

Jules

Thank you for your words..... They will help me too.

Leslie

The only way to stop being used by these men is to stop letting them use you. I'm so sorry, but it's true. The only way to get them to give, is to stop giving to them. Like Allison said, when she stopped pushing, and decided to pull away, that's when her MM knew he had to shape up. Give them the gift of missing you, it works!
When you do give, real things (like your devotion) make sure it's not to someone who isn't able to give JUST AS MUCH in return. That's something you can't afford to forget, for the sake of your own hearts. If you never learned that, then this relationship you're in is your wakeup call. Healthy relationships have to be fair and equal, or someone's going to get hurt, very badly. It's usually YOU, the OW. And guess how much these MM usually care about that.... They just want what they want and are manipulating you so that you keep giving it. It doesn't mean they don't love you in their own f-d up way, it just means that it's f-d up and you have to save yourselves from that. The MM isn't going to save you, and if he's getting what he wants, he isn't going to shape up on his own. That's because he's already a cheater and thinks he deserves what he's getting, the way he's getting it. Okay,you love these men and I get it, because I love one too, and I know he loves me, but you want men who can treat you right, and THAT has to be the bottom line, every single time, or you're going to suffer more and more instead of less and less.
I'm praying that God will help us all be strong enough to save ourselves.

Guys suck. I dated that guy for 2 years. Broke up a year ago. Tried to stay friend. Bad idea. Found alot, way too much. He destroyed my life. What an ass hole. I cant even talk about it. He killed my soul. Im trying to get back on my feet. Wish i can say his name so everybody would be aware of that kind of people. There is some crazy psycho evil in this world. Girls Be careful.

This is a message from the other side, ladies. I used to come onto this site last year. I was a wreck, totally shattered. I loved a MM with my whole heart. He made me believe that I was the most special thing in his life, and I think that sometimes he actually believed that. There was some honesty there, in other words. At the same time, my love was completely pure. I just knew that he was my match, that our souls were somehow meant to be together, that the passion and attraction we felt were simply undeniable. But there was this problem: as great as he was in so many ways for me, at the same time he was and still is a real asshole. He thought it would be fine if he went home, slept with his wife at night, let her cook for him, clean for him, take care of his kids and keep him happy in whatever way she could and was, at the same time, taking all the attention he could get from me. He loved that I loved him, he enjoyed the attention, it fed his ego, he fed mine in return, telling me I was the most beautiful woman he'd ever known, loved me, whatever, would always protect me, etc etc.
But then there was a reality that neither of us counted on. When I needed him, he couldn't be there for me. I ran out of money, I was chased by a stalker, you name it, and the man couldn't/wouldn't do anything for me. He was at home, comfortable in his bed with his wife, surrounded by his children, having a lovely time and not thinking about me except when he wanted to get a thrill. In the end, it was clear to us both that I was just his game, his thing on the side, his just-for-fun girl.
If I had known one thing from the start, this never would have happened. The one thing is this: when we let people treat us badly, only bad things can come of it. If I had just accepted the attraction, but never acted on it, we'd still have some good memories left. We might have spent happy, harmless times together. Instead, when you enter into relationships where you don't get treated as well as you should, you come away feeling destroyed. The longer you stay in it, the more it destroys you. And you often don't realize it's happening until it's too late.
But being burned by your own passion can purify you. If you learn from it, and have the courage to change yourself into someone who doesn't let anyone have her affection unless she's sure she's getting it in return, (in the same amount that she's giving it and within a fully committed relationship), then you'll have caught on to the whole lesson that was buried inside of this problem, just waiting for you to discover it. To do this, you'll have to change a lot of what brought you into your traumatic situation in the first place. You'll have to find healthy ways to get more love, affection, appreciation, and self-worth into your life, ways that have nothing to do with your MM.
Anyway, I just wanted to tell you how it went for me, in case it helps any of you. Believe me, I was shattered and completely lost and destroyed by the love I had for the MM in my life. I can say that 10 months after letting him go, I'm still having to clean up parts of the mess in my life that brought me into that situation in the first place, but I see that I'm a changed person. I am too exhausted from what I went through to get upset about things the way I used to. I used to live in fear, anxiety, depression, doubt, anger, etc etc. Now, I sometimes feel those things, but I'm not totally in their grips like I used to be. Instead I found that if I do what's for the best, I can have some peace in that alone. I also found that if I don't respect my feelings enough to protect them, no one else will either. I found that if I look at what's really good in my life, and appreciate those things completely, that things are really okay, despite how they sometimes seem. I learned to find new ways of making myself happy that I can control myself, and to clean out toxins and toxic relationships from my body and my life. I had horrrrrrrible PMS while I was in that toxic relationship with the MM. In the end, only by going on a detox diet could I get rid of some of the torment that came with the PMS. And the only way to get on a healthier path was to let the MM go off on his own path, to let that toxic bond between us go.
Now, we're together again, but in a platonic way, no hanky panky, and I have a LOT more power in the relationship this time around, just because I know I'll be okay no matter what he does. He hasn't grown much, he still just goes from woman to woman trying to make himself happy. I still see why I loved him with my whole heart, and that charm of his still has a power over me, but the difference is this: i can see he's a little boy who wants to be naughty, and that he's a selfish lover, mostly just looking to get what he wants, and only giving as little as possible to get it. And I can see he is not the love of my life. And he can act however he wants, like a shit or an angel, and I know I'll still be okay. There is freedom and peace in caring less, in cases like ours. The more your happiness is linked to these guys, the more they will hurt you (in most cases). The less you care about yourself, in situaions like this, the more you will hurt. Same thing really. The main thing is that most of these guys don't know how to love anyone truly, or they wouldn't be cheating in the first place.
Okay, that's all I wanted to say after all these months. I know some of you are still living in pain, day in and day out, and I'm so sorry. I wish there were something I could say to help you make the break. I guess what I'm writing today is just to help anyone who decides to try to get out, I wanted you to know that things can get better on the other side, with a lot of hard work and sincere effort. There are still ups and downs where I'm at, but they hurt less than they used to, and I feel less scared of them than I used to. And a lot of the time, I can actually be happy with things just as they are. There have been moments of real perfection since I left him, and even if they're fleeting, they are 100,000 times better than the perfect moments I spent with him, because they don't come with the price of incredible pain.
Good luck ladies, I wish you all the best, as always! Be good to yourselves and make sure that the men in your lives are doing the same. And always find a way to be okay on your own, because if you lose sight of how to do that, people can get too much power over you and rip your heart to shreds....
STN

Hello,

Glad to hear you are well, i come to check, if any of the old friend are here. I too have been able to flush out the unbalanced relationship. and it does feel free and grounded.

take care , wish you the very best

Dali

Hi Dali!

I'm so glad to hear you're doing well again. Did you find that making the break was the hardest and the best thing you ever did for yourself? That's the way I feel. I mean, now when I talk with 'my' MM, we can be normal people again, not the tortured, depressed, insane people we became while we were in the relationship. He seems to respect me and my opinion now more than ever, and I know that it's all for the best. Sometimes it can still hurt to think of him in his life without me, but it hurts a hell of a lot less than it did when I was still in the relationship. I'm so glad to have at least gotten rid of all that horrible pain. Even being around him again every day has not made me want to go back to that. It was just too hard and horrible. I never want to feel that much pain for anything or anyone again as long as I live.
I often wonder how things have turned out for Danielle Jordan. Danielle, are you out there still? I re-read a lot of her old postings and realized that her toughness was right on the mark.
So my new mantra is to never be in a relationship with someone who isn't in it with me. Ha ha! But seriously, he never was really there, only part there, and that just sucks for a woman who wants to love someone the right way.
If you feel like it, please let me know how your new life is. I often wonder about how you've gotten on with things, what makes you happy now, etc.
I still read my email at stillstuck@yahoo.com, if you feel like writing to me there. Anyway, I'm wishing you well, and hope that all good things come your way.
Lots of love, STN

I'm new here and trying to get over a MM. I met him 2 years ago at a concert and we just small talked about kids, music, etc. Ran into him again this past summer at a concert (was with my husband) and something came over me. I had to talk to him or I knew I would never see him again. I introduced him to my husband and then ran into him again on a bathroom visit. The chemistry was INSTANT and we verbally exchanged emails. Well he emailed me the next day saying he couldn't stop thinking about me. From them we emailed every day. We never held back on how we felt and we planned to meet in 3 weeks at another concert. We did and it was like fireworks. We kissed but I ended up getting sick and he had to go home so NOTHING happened. I phoned him the next day and apologized he was feeling guilty and said he couldn't hurt his wife or kids. We agreed to meet shortly that Friday for a drink and we ended up making out and talked about meeting up again in 2 weeks. I went away with friends that weekend and he called me from his in-laws and emailed. For the next two weeks the emails got deeper and heavier and we did finally get together and spent a wonderful night together. The next morning he was quiet (clearly messed up). I emailed him and asked him to be honest and he admitted that he was feeling messed up and guilty. He wanted to be with me but didn't know the guilt would be so strong (he had always been up front with me and said he loved his wife and the marriage was good). We both admitted to being "in love" with the other and agreed to meet to talk. We did and he said he couldn't leave his wife and kids. I told him even though my marriage was over I too couldn't hurt my family so we agreed to see each other when possible.

We saw each other again (about every two weeks) and emailed 2 or 3 times a day EVERY day. We said "I love you" both in and out of the heat of the moment and our feelings for each other got deeeper.

2 weeks ago we spent the night together. Had an amazing time both in and out of the hotel but in the morning he was quiet and cold.
I had felt him slipping the last while (emails were short and not every day). I asked him if his feelings had changed and he assured me they hadn't. He said he'd been busy but he still felt the same. Needless to say I didn't hear from him for 2 days and my heart was broke. I realized I couldn't do this anymore as I wanted to be with him more and more. I tried to call (several times) and no answer so I sent him an email telling him I couldn't do it anymore. I told him I loved him and wished him nothing but the best. He came back at me with anger. He couldn't believe I called so many times and that he was "done" as he couldn't give me the attention I needed. His words were cold and to the point. He said he enjoyed every moment with me but I should go back to my husband and show him the reason I fell in love with him in the first place.

I have been married for 8 years (together for 13) with three kids. My husband is a great guy and father but that's it. We are two different people. He has no drive, passion and is so laid back it's scary. I am go, go, go all the time. We have not had sex for almost a year and have gone for two years before. It doesn't help that there are two kids in the bed BUT I don't have feelings for him. The love is gone. I care about him but that's it. I feel stuck as I can not afford to leave and it would kill him and the kids.

So 10 days have gone by. I cant sleep. I cry all the time and I miss him so much. I have no guilt for what I've done, I sad cause I want my MM back!!! The feelings, chemistry and passion were REAL. HELP!!!

To the woman with the laid-back husband and who can't get over her MM.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's probably going to be one of the hardest times of life you'll ever experience. I went through it and aged about 5 years in 12 months. The feelings, the chemistry, the passion, I'm sure, are real, but the problem is the context. Loving a MM who intends to stay with his family is like trying to grow a flower by planting a seed asphalt. You can have all the right ingredients for a true love, but if you can't give it a healthy space in your life, it's going to turn rotten.

My only advice is to accept your feelings for him, but do not dwell on them and do not let them dictate how happy or sad you feel. Force yourself to find things in life that help you feel good, as often as possible, regardless of whether or not you have him. I know it's not easy, I had to retrain myself to do it and, after 1.5 years, I'm only about 85% there. I lost my life by making my MM's feelings the measure of my own happiness. It was a disaster.
Anyway, it takes hard work to get better, but here's some incentive: that old saying about if you love someone/something, let it go. If it comes back to you, it was yours, if it doesn't, it never was.

That's true. And life often lets us have exactly what we want the minute we learn to stop *needing* it. Get rid of the 'need' darling, and 'keep' the want if you'd like. If you can do that, you'll have passed this test.

I'm really sorry for your heartache, I know it's shattering. Maybe my advice isn't what you want to hear, and if not, I hope someone else can find a way to help you find your way to a more comfortable emotional space. I wish you lots of good luck and strength.
STN

Thanks so much for the advice. It seems our stories are all the same.
I know what you are saying is so true but it's so hard to tell my heart to stop hurting. I still haven't heard from him and wonder if he's hurting. I'm sure he is but he knows in his heart that he has to do the right thing.
Life sucks sometimes. It would have been a hell of a lot easier to get over him if I was angry. This "forbidden love" thing really bites. Will I EVER find that passion again???

Hi Guys

I know I have been gone for awhile. Well I have NEWS and hope.

He did it..he left.

I went away to Turks & Caicos in October for 10 days, he was a mess.
He told his wife that's it over, she took off on a vacation and when she
got back, her told her.

The toughest part is the kids, but he knows he is doing the best thing and not living a lie anymore, it will take time for all to calm and blow over, but he seems calm and tells me he loves me and can't wait to start our real life together.

Girls it took 2 years, I beleive in him and in us. If it's right it will happen.

Love Allison

I will be back to update you, I am sure it's going to get worse before it gets better but at least he did it for HIM and not ME.

I wouldn't jump into anything. Everyone involved (him, you and his wife) all need time alone to sort through feelings.

I know you are excited to start your life with him but if you want this to work, then EVERYONE has to get over their feelings FIRST before starting something else.

I can give advice but I can't follow it!

I'm going try to make a long story short and have it make some kind of sense here.

I couldn't take it any longer and told my husband just how I feel. I told him I wasn't "in love" with him and that he couldn't possibly be with me either. Somewhere down the line we both fell out of love and ended up as friends/roommates.
We love each other but are not "in love" (sounds so cliche).
He said he IS still in love with me. Couldn't give me reasons other than he "still feels it in his heart" (which proves my point).
I told him I think he's afraid of losing what he is comfortable with and not actually "in love" with me.
I pointed out that I have had so much time to think this out where as it just slapped him in the face. I asked him if I was making sense and he said yes but still wanted to try.
I told him how that he and I are two different people and he said "what if I change". I told him that it would be wrong for him to change (as that would be fake) and that HE IS WHO HE IS and it isn't necessarily wrong BUT not for me. We talked and rehashed everthing and the only time he actually cried was when he said "I cant be without my kids" which shows that he is not "in love" with me but comfortable and afraid of losing his kids.

I told him he wouldn't lose his kids and that I wasn't going anywhere but right now I cant fake this marriage anymore. You can't make someone love you and that is how I feel.

So we are staying together for financial reasons and for the kids sake. We are already doing that now (for a couple years) so it won't be any different. Whatever happens, happens. I just know that I need more in my life and it's too short. I'm not totally closing the door but I can't fake this anymore.

One day at a time.
Make sense or do I sound so messed up?

PS: I still have not heard from my MM nor do I expect to. I know in my heart that could never work but I still love him. Maybe our paths will meet again one day.

My husband also said he thought I was having an affair which of course I denied. That is over.

I think you did absolutely the right thing. It was so brave, so honest that I am sure only good things can come of it, eventually. I mean, you did it without a saftey net (your MM), and that takes balls and conviction. You did it because you want both of your lives to get better, you did it for the right reasons, not out of some negative emotion, neediness or whatever.

I think your thing now has to be deciding what it is you're searching for, what your real dream for yourself is, what secret about your happiness that your heart has known all along... and then go for it. Really give yourself to that. I'm happy for you, because you did something so hard for all the right reasons, and this, in my experience, means that all the right things will happen. I wish you lots of strength to stay on this road, and I hope you will keep rebuilding your life until you feel comfortable, satisfied and excited by it. You're right, we only live this once, so far as we know, and it's a good idea to make it work for you. Good luck!!!!!
STN

I KNOW I did the right thing but when will my heart stop hurting???

God it's so hard.

Hello to all my friends here, old and new ones.

Jules, I wonder how you are doing and how things have turned out for you?

Dali, it’s good to hear from you and I’m so happy for you in your new found freedom and release from the MM clutches. He hurt you far too much, you deserve so much more happiness and you will find it.

Allison, it sound like you may definitely have your happy ending in site, I pray for you all the time, go for it girl!

STN, you amaze me, your strength, wisdom and heart are so pure. You too have found happiness, peace and freedom on the other side. I know you say that is also in my reach, I’m trying, truly I am. I’m so happy for all you’ve accomplished and love to continue to talking to you my friend.

Danielle Jordan last I heard was freeing herself as well. I pray for her happiness all the time.

I also think about Jamie and wonder how her situation has worked out. I worry about her, it was a messy thing she was facing with the wife hot on her heals after her MM moved with her. Jamie, if you are there, we love you and pray for your happiness.

Unfortunately my MM still has my heart tight in his clutches, although he rips it apart as often as he likes. I often try to read back on my posts to remind myself of the grotesque acts he wanted me to do, the money he demanded I send him, the hard hurtful words he’s used often only to say sweet ones to keep me hanging, having his sister call me telling me to “leave him alone” and so on. I was so sorry to have all these years not told him about our daughter, always believed one day our love would come together and I could tell him. He made me believe it was me, he loved me, so I told him. It was like opening Pandora’s box. Doesn’t matter anyway, he doesn’t care, but I so regret ever telling him, he didn’t deserve to know of such a beautiful angle. Good thing she’ll never know biologically she’s the spawn of an complete and utter ass. She knows nothing of him, she NEVER will.

Most recently he’s cut me off, again. Promised phone calls, promised conversations, promised meetings, all ignored or canceled. He claimed he left her, was waiting for me. Now he’s god knows where, with her or without her, doing god knows what. I have no idea. I’ve picked the last peddle on the daisy and it was “he loves me not”.

You have all been my wonderful loving friends. STN, you are my rock, I truly wouldn’t have survived without you and you continue to lift me up. Thank all of you for carrying me through these past almost 20 months and allowing me to vent my 20 year old secrets. I’m trying, trying to let go, trying to not have this love I’ve been carrying for 20 years, god 20 years, that makes me so pathetic. It’s hard, but I’m trying, please try not to be too disappointed in me.

I love you all and will continue to check back from time to time.
Much Love
Corinne

it's going to take a while, i'm sorry to say. it will hurt like hell and there's not a lot you can do but learn how to manage emotional pain for a while. just stay true to yourself and you're going to be okay. remember that things change, nothing ever stays the same, including feelings. and keep busy, distractions are good. stay away from sad music, force yourself to think of things you're grateful for as often as you can. remember that you've done the right thing and keep looking for the peace that that alone can bring.
anyway, these are the things that i did when i went through hell, and they helped, and they brought me to a better place ... eventually. but i'll be honest, the pain lasted for about 8 months, but got better gradually over those 8 months. i kept telling myself to stay on my new path, knowing that i'd lose all my gains if i suddenly gave up and went back to my old life. also, knowing what i wanted to achieve helped me focus on getting it, instead of just on the pain. at times i used the pain to push me forward towards my emotional goals, and it worked. also, there's somethign to be said for doing the opposite, taking one day at a time, and doing the best you can and letting the rest go. they sound contradictory, but these approaches can work well together.
one last thing, just in case it helps. embrace the pain. tell yourself what you know is true: it's going to heal you, by pushing you to change, and leading you to a life that suits you much better.
xoxo, stn

Ah! I forgot to tell you the things that helped the most. I'm a little sleepy at the moment, sorry.
Okay, if you can do it with your whole heart, then forgiving everyone, everything(including yourself) for anything, everything, the situation, the problems, whatever, it really clears out the pain like magic. Maybe you think there's nothing to forgive? I don't know, but somehow finding a way to liberate yourself from all your concerns about the past, the present and the future, and knowing in your heart that everything's going to be okay no matter what, believing that things are the way they need to be, should be, etc. well, this kind of attitude can bring you that relief you're looking for. let all the pain go, keep the lessons and anything you can of what has been good. practice doing that. i admit, i can't always do it, but when i can, i feel like a million bucks.
also: emotional pain is biochemical. seriously. detoxing my system worked wonders i never thot. were possible. i just followed a pretty simple diet, drank some special teas and i went from being totally insane with pain, anger, fear, etc. to a relatively peaceful state in under 40 days. i wasn't in perfect shape after 40 days, far from it, but i can tell you that it made a huge difference all the same. yoga did wonders for me too. just helped all the fragmented pieces of my spirit, my mind, my heart, all start to come back together again. hiking is good too, very grounding.
the main thing is, even if detoxing and yoga, etc. doesn't interest you: take really really good care of yourself, be kind to yourself, and do and think things that let you heal. transitions take time. the pain will come, and then it will go. and you'll be thanking yourself for the rest of your life that you stuck it out, no matter how things turn out.
i think the happiest people know how to make the most of the good and the least of the bad in life. hold on to all those good things, think about them as often as you can, and most importantly, be grateful for it all.

Hello,

this week i was trying to have sex and i didn't get erection, first time i had argued with my wife first and then we tried to have sex and it didn't work and second time we were making love and i didn't get erection, it never happened with me before; and it happened me this week and i am scared that do i have erection disorder? please let me know it is bothering me lot and i keep thinking about it all the time; what should i do?

Having a bad day. Miss him so much.

Thanks so much for your advice. I do work out and find that helps too.

Hi Everyone,

I know it's been awhile. I'm still on the emotional pain roller coaster. It's been about four months since the MM in Iraq said he would call me back and never did. I still feel like I have no closure. I try to stay hopeful in thinking there is someone else, but I feel I can never feel that sort of passion again. Sometimes, it takes every ounce of my being not to call him. I know if I do, I take the risk of being rejected all over again. I still can't help but to blame myself. I feel like I cornered him or had a moment of clinginess that scared him away. If only I had remained patient perhaps things would be different. I know I'm kidding myself--I'm just tired of the should have done this or could have done that in my mind. I think the hardest thing coming up is knowing he will more than likely be back in the states in the next few weeks. I'm clinging onto hope that he will call. I don't want hope. It's too painful. Anyway, I pray for all of you. It helps to know others are experiencing similar things. The gut-wrenching pain is gone. Now I just feel emotionally numb. Does that ever go away? Good luck ladies and I'll check back soon:)

JUles

WOW, I can't belive how similar everyone's story is. The pain and feelings we share. I too go through all the "what if's" and "should have's" BUT in the end, the answer is STILL the same - HE DOESN'T WANT ME!!!

I actually drove past his work Monday and he pulled out in front of me. I was shaking so bad. I had to actually pass him and cut in front of him to get to the gas station. I was in the company truck so I don't think he saw me. Afterwards I did the "I should have honked/waved" and felt like I blew it. I actually sent him a friendly email stating I had saw him but I still haven't received a response (surprise). I don't know what I was thinking. I guess I was hoping he would email me and take it from there. DUH
It KILLED me to see him (been a month). My heart ached to look into his eyes.

I know he has chosen to move on and do the right thing as his conscience was killing him but what I don't get is how he can just forget ME and what we shared??? It has been one month and the pain is not getting any easier. My mind can't stop thinking about him and my heart wont stop hurting. I want NOTHING more than to talk to him.
Everyone says it WILL get easier but I highly doubt it. I too feel numb like my soul has been destroyed.

The sad thing about this is I'm still married and don't want to be. Have 3 kids and no way out financially.

NICE MESS I GOT MYSELF INTO!!!

To my fellow destroyed soul,
Please don't beat yourself up so much. The heart works independantly, you can't control who it falls in love with, and unfortunately it sometimes takes control of our sense and sensibility. Love is love.

Also, you aren't alone. I too am still married and don't want to be, I too have children, one that is my MM's from our beautiful romance years ago. After 17 years, he didn't know that, now I wish I'd never told him. I really don't think he cares, which only prooves that all those years ago when I was so young and scared, I was right NOT to tell him regardless of how it hurt.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that even though now it seems like the pain won't end, I understand, I feel the same way. It will get easier in time, it has to, just like those who mourn a death, what choice do we have. We will mourn the death of our relationship with the man and move on. Yes, it will hurt like hell for a while, and when you look back it will always seem to hurt a bit, but it will get easire as time goes by.

Hang in there. Know you aren't alone and the way things are, are simply for the best. Sometimes the best thing for you is the one that hurts the most, this is one of those things. Be strong, for yourself and for your children. Most importantly, never let him see how lost you are without him..NEVER.

You are loved!
Take Care!
Corinne

Corinne

Thanks for you kind and encouraging words. Had a really bad drive into work this morning. It does feel like someone died.

He still hasn't replied to my email. I just feel like there is so much left to say and I hate the way we ended this. I know he's doing the right thing but just cant grasp the thought of him not being a part of my life. There's no doubt in my mind that he loved me but I know he loves his wife and kids and I can/won't ever compete with that.
I hate this "unforbidden love" crap. I thought "Love conquered all"! HA

Anyway, I know I have to move on (I have no choice). Don't worry about him seeing me "lost" without him as our paths never cross. I purposely drove past his work the other day. That wont be happening again.

It's great to know I'm not alone but sad that there are so many broken hearts out there!

I hope one day I CAN let go and move forward as he has.

Thanks
ML

Hello ML,

We are definitely in similar situations. I do silly things like dial his number just because, listen to old recorded messages he left me and so on. It is only our way of holding on. All I can suggest is try and occupy yourself with other things, an activity, read a book or go for a drive or walk. This won't get your MM off your mind, but it will occupy you while you are thinking of him and it will hurt a little less.

What about your current marriage, is it "over". What has happened with that? Can you build or rebuild on it?

Try and remember the love you and your MM share for eachother rather then the love you feel you've lost. You see, I don't think my MM loves me, I think he lusts for me and the two are completely different. If you know your MM loves you, keep that with you, embrace it and just know simply "now is not the right time" thats all. Believe me, I'm sure he's hurting and missing you just as much.

Hang in there ML, and keep posting. I'll be checking on you.
Love
Corinne

Hi ML,

Corinne is right. It will get better. You're going to get tired of hurting, tired of the grief and the pain, and as long as your not feeding yourself with things that keep you miserable, you will get better.

Try to imagine yourself in a deep pit in the ground, full of monsters. The monsters represent your fears, pain, wounds, regrets, anxieties, grief, etc. The only way out of the monster pit is to not fixate on the monsters. Force yourself to focus on the way out, the path that's really right for you and healthy for you, and every time one of these monsters tries to pull you back down into the pit, be aware of what's happening. Ask yourself, is this pain, is this fear, etc? Think about the source of it, and try to cut it out of your head/heart/life, whatever the case may be. Just to give an example, I used to torment myself with thoughts and worries about what I did wrong. At the end of the day, I had to let myself off the hook in order to stop the torment. Basically I just accepted that I f-d things up in my life, I learned to not do things that hurt me and other people anymore, stopped allowing myself to want what wasn't mine, and I let the rest go. Of course, it's easy to fall back into pain and agony when your wounds and your trauma are still so fresh. That's just part of this horrible path of loving a MM. But the beauty of it all is hidden inside the pain. Basically you're going to realize at some point that you are the ultimate source of your own happiness, and that you can be really happy without him, as long as you set things right inside yourself and in your life. I know it's hard to believe when you're hurting as much as you are, and wanting him back as much as you do. I'm so sorry. But you are headed to a better place in life, one where no one will ever be able to hurt you this much again, because you'll have new boundaries, new ways of thinking and acting that make you happy regardless of what other people do or don't do in your life. You're going to find strength that you never knew you had, and you'll need every ounce of it to get yourself through this.

Please, just know you're going to be all right in time, you really will. My MM can still hurt me after all this time, because there's a good man inside of him that I really do love. But I learned that he's only capable of hurting me right now, so I learned how to manage the pain, the wanting and the love, and to manage myself, and that makes all the difference in the world. Basically I'm not a prisoner to the pain anymore, even if it still exists sometimes. Anyway, focus on whatever healthy things you can find that help you, focus on these things like crazy, and hold onto them for dear life. The more things you do that are right for yourself and the people you love, the faster you'll find yourself in a life that you actually like.

I know it's hard. Try small steps whenever you can, even if it feels like taking the worst medicine in the world. Little by little you'll come to a better place. There's something that you're meant to do with your life, and all of this suffering is leading you to it. Mostly you're not meant to live in pain and fear. Reject what's bad for you, accept what you can't change, build on whatever helps you. Trying this over and over again, even if you fail 90% of the time, helps the pain fall away. Have faith that caring for yourself like this will get you where you need to go, because it will, even if you're not good at it at first. Trust that everything's going to be okay. It really will.

Last thing: think really seriously about this hole in your heart. The fact that you can love your MM this much, in this painful way, means something serious. If you find a way to heal that hole in your heart, to fill it up with something good for you, something reliable, you won't ever end up in a situation like this again (needing instead of simply wanting). Also, the fact that you love him as much as you do, as desperately as you do, is an important sign about the way you really feel about your regular married life. But you already know that, so I'll leave it at that. Maybe I'm not making much sense anyway, sorry.
I hope you're doing okay.
Love, STN

One last thing, just in case it helps. Part of you probably really wants to imagine that things can be okay somehow between you and your MM some day. I think they can. Let yourself have that hope, without dwelling on the details of how it would be possible. Believe that things can be set right between you two if it helps ease the pain. And then get back to focusing on what's good for you in the meantime.
I'm sorry to write so much, but when I read what you're writing, I remember the pain now, how it was, how tormented I felt, so betrayed, and so completely shattered. There was a time when I blocked it out, but anyway, I can remember it now. I hate thinking of anyone suffering through that, just because it's so horrible in ways that normal deaths and losses are not. At least for me it was an infinitely more hurtful kind of pain than simply losing a loved one because of a natural death. It really does wound the soul. I guess I know that you'll need to figure out what works best for you, step by step, but I hate the idea of leaving anyone to suffer through this without at least trying to offer something that helps from my own experience. That's why I keep writing. I hope it's not annoying just to be told things will get better and to focus on yourself, when all you want is to have him back.
I don't even know why I'm back on the website, I feel okay about the situation with my MM, even if it's not ideal. I guess I just feel better now and am hoping that somehow by telling you how I got better, you'll be able to get some use out of it and get out of hell faster. Hope you don't mind.
xoxo, STN

Hey Corinne

Thanks so much for replying. It makes me feel better to talk to someone who understands.

My marriage is OVER. We went for 2 years without sex and it was always me initiating it. We did for a bit and now it's been almost a year again. I told him several times that I wasn't going to initiate it anymore so I didn't. Besides the fact that I am not attracted to the person he is (no drive, passion, emotion, ambition, etc). There is no emotion in our marriage at all, we don't even fight - we just exist. It's like living with a room mate or friend. Looking back I think I got married just for the fairytale and he was a nice guy (still is). I did love him at one point but I really think I just settled. There's so many more reasons why I know it's over but that is it in a nutshell.

I KNOW my married man loved me, there's not a doubt in my mind but his marriage is good and he loves his family and he has to do what is right. It was me who ended it but he also knew it had to happen.

I would give just about ANYTHING to see him again. My heart is destroyed!

ML

Hi STN

Thanks for you words of wisdom/experience. I know what you are saying is RIGHT and it will get better but it's so hard to believe. This morning was extremely bad. It seems to hit me when I get in the car. I've cried so much I look 5 years older.

I want to believe what you are saying but right now my heart doubts it. Sorry but I'm being honest. I know our relationship was based on fun and good times but they were real and the passion and feelings that developed made me feel so alive. You can't stop love, it's like a train (but in these situations, there is usually an unavoidable wreck)! We were in love and it felt so right BUT IT WAS WRONG.

My friend keeps saying "you never know what's around the corner" but I just can't stop the feeling so empty and dead.

Thanks

ML

Hi ML<

I hope I didn't suggest that your love wasn't real. I don't have time to re-read at the moment, but that's not what I had in mind at all. I'm sure it was real and still is. Anyway, I'm sorry to leave you in the middle of all of this suffering. I hope you find your own way to your own peace, sorry that I just can't think of anything else to offer the might get you some relief. Take good care of yourself.
xxoo, STN

No, I didn't think that at all! I am greatful for your support. No worries.

These current posts have been helpful. The holiday season is especially hard. I can relate to one of your posts about it's the hardest when driving in the car. For over four months, I have not listened to the radio. Any type of music makes me cry. I think the car is so hard because it leaves you alone with your thoughts completely with no real distractions. I think what helps to lift my spirits and let myself off the hook is knowing that I loved this man with all my heart. I know I may have made little mistakes along the way--but who doesn't. The bottom line is the love we shared was not strong enough meaning I was the one constantly trying to breathe life into it. While there are so many things I love about my MM, the main ingredient missing was a sense of loyalty. I know because of his marriage, he could not give me a full commitment, but I never got the feeling that he would fight for me through thick and thin. I desperately miss his presence and all the wonderful attributes that he pocesses, but what's the use if he can just discard me without a second thought. Part of me will always yearn for him, but I think for me to get through this, I have to channel my energy toward praying for the man that will love me unconditionally and not conveniently. So ladies, please stay strong. Right now, I'm taking comfort in watching my son grow. He's almost 10 and sadly, I feel like emotionally I haven't been there like I should have for the past couple of years. As much as I love sweets especially anything chocolate, I'm going to definitely try to take care of myself. If I can't be completely healthy mentally right now, I want to at least be physically healthy and hopefully the rest will fall into place. Thanks ladies for all your help and advice. It's so true, this is worse than a death I think. The biggest hope is that it will lead us to the ultimate man just for us. We'll look back and say thank goodness I hung in there so I could experience everlasting love---sorry if I sounded like an E-harmony commerical. Take care and I'll check back soon:)

Jules

Some men would throw you up and forget to catch as you come crashing down. Pick yourself up, get your defenses in place. Get on with life. That's all there is to it. And never ever make the same mistake again. Shut out the world, postpone the mourning. Be stoic. And when feeling a little stronger, mourn a little each day. Everything passes. So shall this.

Jules

We do have to move on and let go as this is destroying us. At least in your case, you can look for the special man who WILL treat you right.

I am trapped in a marriage I don't want to be in and with 3 kids my hopes for love are slim. For years I was fooling myself thinking that sex wasn't all it's cut up to be and I could live without it (2 years) and after being with my MM I KNOW I need it and want it. It also felt SO GOOD to love someone again and have those feelings inside of me.

Corrine & STN

You are going to be disappointed in me. I sent him a lengthy email telling him I still love him, miss him and wish we could be together. I KNOW that's the worse thing I could do but I had to let him know just how I feel. That way I know I've done all I could and I would not spend the rest of my life doing the "could have, should have" thing. This was 2 days ago and of course I have not heard back nor do I expect to.

My heart is completely crushed and I know we could never be together permanently BUT I'm not ready to let go and want him in my life!

ML

PS: Where does eveyone live? I am in Canada.

Hi Everyone.

I live in Manassas, VA. ML, I'm not disappointed in you. I did the same thing. They say calling or emailing them makes you appear weak. I say who cares. I don't believe that though. I feel we live in a world where you have to do this or that or you are this or that. I say whatever happened to being human and compassionate? If the person I care about is going to jusge me over an email then what the hell!! I would hope someone would fight for me. I know the rejection of not hearing back hurts but it's better than not getting your feelings out there.

I have a question for the person who says their chances for love are slim because they are trapped in a marriage. Forgive me if I missed some posts, but why do you feel trapped? I know that feeling when I was in the middle of an unhappy marriage. I was fearful of the unknown, how would I support my child, etc. Eventually everything worked out. Again, just curious about your viewpoint. Perhaps I can offer some helpful advice.

Well, I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday. As always, you guys are in my prayers and I'll check back soon:)

Jules

Jules

It was ME who made that comment about being "trapped". We do own a house (the bank owns half) but that's it. We have no savings or any extra money to speak of. If we were to sell the house, we would walk away with $60,000 each if we were lucky and that wouldn't be enough for a down payment on anything!
Also, my husband adores his children and it would KILL him to not be with them. So what do I do????

ML

PS: No reply from my MM (surprise). Not even a Merry Christmas!! Hurts like hell.

Hi Jules and ML,

It sounds like you both hit a rough spot at the same time. I'm sorry you're hurting so much, it's pure hell when it's like this. The only thing I can offer, as usual, is some hope from the other side. I wish I could help you get through this without suffering so much, but the truth, or at least my truth, is that the suffering is the only thing that lead me out of pain. I know it doesn't make sense when I say it like that, but it's really what happened.

Okay, what am I talking about? Basically, I was going through the hell you're in. I didn't even want to live. I didn't see the point. I couldn't understand how the love of my life wasn't going to be mine. I always thought that when I found true love, I'd be able to keep it. I was totally unprepared for the reality I was facing. Anyway, I hurt so much that I didn't eat, sleep, or even drink much for days on end. If I saw the sun shining and normal people having a normal time, I'd cry. It was pure agony. This went on for a long time, I was always trying to find a way to make myself feel better moment to moment, and sometimes it worked, but mainly the pain was just there. I finally made a choice that I had to get myself to a better place, I had to start doing things that would get me on a less painful path. So I let go of my MM, found some faith that everything would be okay, if I just let go gracefully of what wasn't really mine. I kept the love, I let go of my agenda, I let go of all contact with him, knowing that if he was really mine, we'd find a way somewhere down the line. The main thing is that I needed to stop needing. I needed to learn to be okay on my own again. And somewhere around this time, I had a dream, and it changed me for good.

Basically, in the dream, I was swimming in a dark lake by some green mountains. And a young woman was swimming by my side. we were chatting about nothing in particular. I liked her. She was sweet, I could tell she had a good heart, she seemed young and really likable. At one point I turned towards her, to see her face, and saw that she was me. And when I looked at her, I saw that her eyes and her whole face were filled with pain, grief, loss and all I wanted to do was hug her and make everything okay for her. Then I noticed that we were near a waterfall, right by the edge, and I warned her not to get too close, and I saw that she was planning to go over the edge on purpose, and as I reached out for her, she slipped through my hands and was gone. I looked over the edge and saw her falling, she was naked, and she tucked her knees and head into her chest as she fell, until finally she disappeared into the mist.

This dream was a turning point for me. When I woke up, I knew that my painful self had to die. I had to put an end to the suffering I was going through, I knew that living in pain, grief, fear, anxiety, etc. was just a wrong thing to do, on a cosmic and fundamental level. I never saw my new self in the dream, the me that watched my painful self die, so I didn't have a good sense of what I was becoming, and the picture is still fuzzy. The only thing I know is that it helped, it helped to understand that pain is a sign for us to change ourselves, to care more for ourselves than we have been, to put make our own feelings a priority, to create situations for ourselves where pain isn't a natural biproduct, to learn to be able to make ourselves somehow okay, no matter what happens, no matter how someone treats us or has treated us, no matter what we lose in this life, because we'll lose everything, little by little. So now I just hold on to the good, create good feelings/relationships/situaions, I build on the good things I've already done, and I keep repeatedly turning my back on the needs that have hurt me so much. I feel like I'm setting myself up to have a more stable life, a life full of people who really care about me, who make my feelings a priority, who respect my boundaries, who think I'm someone worth caring for, protecting, etc. And I haven't found this yet in a man/partner, but I've found it in my friends and some of my family, and I never really realized it was there all along. The people who really care about me have just been waiting for me to invest in them, instead of in a man who really didn't invest in me. And these investments are more rewarding than my relationship with 'my' MM ever was. Of course, I hoped and believed that my relationship with my MM could have been more rewarding than all of the love I've ever known combined, but reality intervened in a ridiculously harsh way.

I have 100% faith that one day you guys will find a way to feel okay again. I made a goal at the beginning of 2007 to get my life on track again, one tiny, shaky step at a time. I thought I'd be done by April. HA! I'm still working on it. I've come a long long fantastic, horribly difficult way, but step by solid step I'm seeing improvements, and thank heavens. And the improvements are a million times better than any influence that my MM brought to my life. I'd say I set right about 80% of what I wanted to set right, that's not bad. Anyway, my point is that no matter how dark things seem, just keep looking for the (sometimes seemingly tiny) lights in your life, and focus everything on making them stronger. The more you look to your MM as the love you lost, and the more you spend time hurting about it, the less time you'll spend seeing and appreciating the love you do have. And the love you do have is the strong stuff, otherwise it wouldn't have lasted while you've been lost in your love for your MM.

Anyway, I hope this gives you a little hope for the new year. Things can get better, and the pain can actually push you in a direction that you needed to go in anyway. It's horrible, but there's a point to all the pain, and it's all about making you find a way to feel whole again, which you can really do. Don't let yourselves get overwhelmed with all you need to work on, and it will be okay.

Lots of love, STN

STN

Thanks for your words of wisdom. I hear you, I REALLY DO and I know I have to move on - have no choice. I stil cry everyday and want him back in my life. Not to marry or move in with but just to be in my life as a friend/lover FOR NOW. I'm not ready to let go but I have to wake up and smell the coffee.

I have lots of EXTREMELY SUPPORTIVE friends who are ALWAYS there for me. The sad thing is I can't practice what I preach. I actually helped a complete stranger (friend of a friend) just before the holidays who had been in bed for 3 days (not eating and having panic attacks). NO ONE could get through to her. Well I was able to not only get through but got her up and now she is on the mend. I am really good at helping others and give great advice but for some unknown reason can't follow my own advice! Weird.

Anyway, still no response from my MM and it hurts more than anything but I know he has to do what is right by his family and I can totally understand and respect his decision. I will get through this and hopefully find happiness one day.

Happy New Year and thanks for listening.

ML

ML,

How about this person doing the 'right thing' by you? Were you just used? For God's sake don't find honour in cowardice of the man.

Chances are this person is quite happy and contended.

Should you mourn him at all?

What did you lose? A person who didn't give a damn about you? Who had the relationship with you and then scurried out of your life? Did not have any qualms in cutting you off so slickly. And so completely.

You think you are sad for 'having lost something valuable'. On the contrary you have just been saved. You may find this harsh. But this is the reality of the situation.

Please change the track playing in your mind. It would make it easier for you to cope with the situation. Will not be easy.

I am truly sorry that this happened to you. But, you still have something very precious.

Yourself.

Happy New Year.

You are right I shouldn't be sad. However,he was honest from the beginning telling me he does love his wife and his marriage is good but we both got caught in the heat of the moment and feelings developed. I know he did care but his conscience was killing him and we did what was right by ending the relationship. I know I have to move on but I still miss him and love him.

Let's hope 2008 is a good year for me!

Thanks

ML

ML

Have I missed something?

One can't have feelings for and sleep with another woman and still claim he loves his wife. If he loved her, would he risk hurting her/ betraying her trust? May be he is comfortable with the status quo of finding sex outside of marriage, no strings attached, no responsibility, no emotional attachment, no nothing. While his house/ kids are taken care of by an unsuspecting wife. May be he loves you, but the thought of disrupting his comfort zone is not an option. And when it came to choosing, it wasn't you.

But, in your situation, this is the likely outcome, even you wouldn't want to leave your husband. I guess, emotions need to be handled with care. Just give yourself time, it heals all.

This is the question that runs through my mind everyday! I know he cared for me but it was all a fairytale (no stress, bills, kids, etc) so of course it was all good BUT it was there. Just bad timing.

You are right about the comfort zone and he can't hurt his kids (he made that perfectly clear from the beginning).

I will always hold him in my heart but I have to do what it right. I DO want to leave my husband as I don't love him anymore (not as a partner anyway).

Thanks
ML

Hey ML,

You sound like you're doing a little better these days. I hope that's the case. I'm away from my situation with 'my' MM for a while, doing work in a neighboring town, so it's giving me a lot of perspective on what an emotional drain he is on me. Anyway, it's a sad situation. My MM sounds like your MM, and everyone's MM, caught in some kind of emotional limbo, where he probably doesn't know how to keep the passion alive in his marriage, but also doesn't want to lose all the comfort that the marriage offers him. And they want women like us to keep things exciting and passionate for them, but they really aren't capable of giving us what we need to feel like a priority and cared for. I didn't get that my MM was seeing things like that, he really thought he could have all of my affection for little or no investment on his part. I just kept waiting for him to get a clue and invest more.... I'm not sure which one of us was more clueless. Anyway, the weird thing is that the feelings between us were really intense, and it was 100% love while we were together, in the same room. But he'd check out of the relationship every time I left the room and go on to his home life, because he had to, and I'd sit there, alone.... Can we say 'bad emotional investment'? But the thing is, I couldn't change my feelings. And I still can't. And he can't. What's changed is how I manage them, and myself. That can help a LOT more than it sounds like it can help.

We all have our reasons for falling, and our own hearts know best what the reasons are. So it's clear you really loved your MM, if you can understand what made you love him so much, other than just the obvious feelings of attraction, etc., you might get to the bottom of something important for yourself to know about. What attracted you the most? What would have been best about being with him? How much of it was the part of you wanting to escape the difficulty of your situation with your husband, and take cover in the emotions he stirred up in you? Basically, what made and makes him so irresistable to you? If you figure out what's been drawing you to him so forcefully, you can find ways to get more of that stuff from other people and relationships in your life, eventually.

I learned a lot from my MM about myself. I realized that I really am craving stability (which he has), passion, more enjoyment out of life, more laughter, more appreciation (he always used to make me feel great about myself, until, of course, we found ourselves in hell), you know, stuff like that. That's what pulled me in. Plus, he's a big liar, or at least thinks he's a lot more supportive than he is. i mean, he offered all kinds of support and loyalty that made me think I could trust him. But it was just a show on his part, he was never loyal to me. Still, it's like you say, the love really was there, he's just so f-d up, he really didn't know how to treat me the right way, didn't understand that the relationship was about ME too, not just him and what he wanted. He's still clues and mostly baffled about why I got upset over the way he treated me, he seriously doesn't get that it's not okay to expect everything from me and give almost nothing in return. At least your MM sounds more intelligent about relationship issues, and what might make one work. People always used to tell me how beautiful it was to see me and him together, we made a kind a magic when we were in the same room together, and I could seriously kill him for fucking it all up with his stupid decisions and mentality, because the potential for something amazing was always there, and still is. But he married young, had a ton of kids, and he's stuck with that now. And boy does he feel stuck. That's where I came in, I could be his excitement on the side, and his distraction from his lame life-choices and all the problems they're causing for him now. And he thought he could get this all for nothing because he's so fucking in love with himself that he didn't realize the relationship needed to be about what I needed too. And I was so short-sighted that I just thought he'd be able to make things right somehow. But as much as he taught me, I know I taught him a lot too. He's slowly (like a neanderthal) catching on to the fact that, um, maybe he made a royal mess of everything by making short-sighted, pleasure seeking decisions his entire life. The man can't think 5 minutes ahead of himself. At least your MM realized that you two were headed for serious trouble if your relationship had gone on. But I'm so sorry he cut off contact with you, I know that hurts like the worst kind of hell. My gut feeling is that he can't handle the emotions, so he's shut them out. But don't worry, no one can really escape emotional realities, no matter how they try. It seems that he's still feeling the feelings on some level, but is choosing to hide from them for the time being. The stronger the feelings, the more some men hide.

Anyway, I'm just rambling. But I guess I'm writing just to find out if you know what's driving your strong feelings. I don't feel like love like that just falls from the sky randomly, I think it's there and trying to tell you something really important about your life, and that the same issues will keep coming up, in one form or another, until you figure ouf what that important thing is. Maybe it's too soon for that sort of thinking, I hope you're feeling a bit better at least. You're going to be just fine in time. Hang in there and be good to yourself.

Love, STN

I just wanted to add something quick, which may not be music to your ears right now, but somewhere down the line, I'm betting that you'll feel like you dodged a bullet and be glad about it.

First, your MM has gone where most MMs go when trouble with the OW (that's us) comes up. They run home to 'mommy', the wife. And guess where that leaves you... yeah, you know, and it's not pretty. You're there holding all the emotional baggage by the side of the road. And if the 'relationship' continued, you'd keep getting left right where you are now, every time that trouble came up and you two needed to talk things out, find a solution. If it were a real relationship, he wouldn't have another woman to run to, and when a prob. came up, he would either have to go off alone and lick his wounds, and feel the shitty feelings that come with having to do that, and face having to find another relationship from scratch, or he'd have to deal with the relationship issues that were coming up between the two of you.

That's the strength about a real realtionship: equal investments, equal levels of risk, means things can be more fair. These MM run from fair. They can't handle the kind of commitment, growth, risk, and equality that real realtionships require, and they are the biggest escape artists of all time. They're always running for comfort, instead of doing what it takes to make a relationship work. Maybe that description seems familiar, because it's just like they run to us OW when things at home are difficult for them. Doesn't mean he doesn't 'love' you, in my view. Just means he doesn't really know how to handle love, or a relationship, or difficult emotions. Love is love, but love isn't the same thing as a good relationship. Basically, by not continuing to be with him romantically, you're dodging a bullet, even if it feels like you're getting killed in the process.

Other thing, well, I forgot what that is, sorry. But just keep preparing yourself to deal with your relationship issues at home, and work on getting yourself where you need to go with that, and somehow something will get better with you and your MM. I can't say what that something is, but I know that focusing on what's really important and starting make some needed changes, little by little, will make the other issues with your MM begin to get better.

I know you're not ready to let go of him, so don't even bother thinking of it that way. It's not worth it. Set it aside for now, like putting something on the back-burner on the stove. Just let it be, and don't mess with it, and don't let yourself fret about it too much. Letting it be, without interfering with it, may be better than trying to let it go, because it seems you're just not ready to let it go. That can be accepted. If it's the way it is, then it's the way it is.

Meanwhile, think about something else: what you can really control, what you are aiming for in your life for right now, regardless of what comes up with your MM. I know your MM is really a strong force in your life, love is love, but put your energy into other (more positive)things as often as you can, like the friendships you mentioned, etc etc., and you'll build a basis for feeling stronger, better, etc. as those positive investments accumulate.

And the next time your MM starts to feel unhappy or uncomfortable at home, and sees that you've turned back into a stronger version of yourself, he might just end up being the one writing you, trying to salvage something. Then you can decide what to make of it all from a position of emotional strength. It's better that way for you, and you're at the point where what's good for you needs to be a serious priority. Since he's not making your emotional needs a priority, you have to see to them yourself.
Fun, I know. But respect your emotional needs, respect your basic human right to be treated well, or, if that's not yet possible, at least begin to try to expect better treatment than you're getting at the moment, because what you're getting sucks. And I know your MM has some legit. reasons for not being able to give you what you need and deserve, but that's the whole point. And it's harsh. Regardless of what he can or can't give you, your emotions need some real care and concern. There's no two ways about that truth.

xoxo, STN

Hi there

Thank God for YOU and all the other ladies on this site who know and support what I'm going through. I DO have great friends but not having gone through this, they DON'T understand and judge (even though they say they don't). I too judged and are trying to get out of this BAD habit.

I'm not sure if I am getting better. Yesterday and today hurt so bad. I am ANGRY at him for not repsonding and dropping off the face of the earth. Even though I know he has to as he has made a committment to his wife/family, it still hurts that he hasn't responded to my emails or even checked to see how I am!!! I know he has to do this cause if he did write/see me, we would be right back into it again but I just don't know how he can!!!

I loved him not only for the intense passion/chemistry we shared but we also got along great and have the same interests. I miss just chatting with him about nothing and his beautiful eyes!!! I know it was fairytale (not dealing with the stress of everyday living) but it was great and I KNOW he loved it just as much. I don't want to marry him or move in with him, I just want him back in my life and to see him occassionally. I am not in any hurry to be in a relationship and will NEVER marry again.

Anyway, I am SLOWLY getting through this (have my days where it seems I'm going backwards)and I highly doubt that he will ever come around again. We have no way of running into each other as he lives 1 hour from me. I may bump into him in the summer at a concert but other than that, he would have to contact me and I honestly think he has closed the door and thrown away the key. He HAD to make a decision (even though I was the one to initially end the relationship) as he KNEW it was wrong. I'm just so sad...

What's your story? Do you still have contact with your MM?

ML

Consider this, I can't recall which poet wrote- 'A man's work and a Man's love are a thing apart, for a woman its her entire life.'

Men think in squares/ compartments, this is for 'work', this one for 'friends', this for 'parents', this one for wife, this one for kids, and this one for 'girl friend'. Each are seperate and able to co exist. Each has a 'utility' and the 'girl friend' naturally comes with a 'expiry date'. Is there a reason why men are better at maths? By and large?

Women think more like a well merged mixture of colours, where all the above mix and mingle to become her life. One does not exist w/o the other. They are all parts of the same. That is what she is. When she is working she is thinking of family, when at home thinking also of the friends problem and the next medical visit of parents etc. A woman would carry everything with her all the time- and that becomes a problem for her. Her emotions are not attached to a compartmentalised tap that she can switch off at will. They run amok through her and over her.

And as for 'not hurting the kids'- and this bit I have really thought over- that is indeed a noble thought, though not entirely wise as the moment kids are grown up, they will leave and may be contact parents during yearly visits and weekly phone calls. They would live their lives the way they want, marry whom they choose and parents would have to look after themselves in old age. This is the truth. I have seen kids from divorced families turn out to be great adults, it depends on how they are handled. If both parents 1. do not blame the other, 2. do not poison the kids' minds against the other, 3. let the kids see that it is ok for parents to choose not to live together, 4. let the kids know through positive action that the kids are loved, no matter what and 5. that kids needs will be met, kids will understand. They would rather have 'seperated peaceful adults' in their lives than 'sqabbling parent together'. Yes everyone would have to make adjustments. And it would not be easy. But then nothing in life is. And a chance of really finding love and happiness is something one should not miss. There is nothing wrong in parents trying to live for themselves and yet caring for the kids- these should be mutually exclusive.

Rather than break off, why didn't you try living togehter? I know it may be too late now, or may be not. May be your boy friend is also very hurt???

At the end of the day it is indeed 'an individual choice made with free will'. Whatever a person does is what the person actually wants to do. Otherwise there are excuses. Some lofty. Some sheepish.

And one carry the end of the stick that one gets. At times the short end.

Hi Everyone,

I'm trying to be positive in the new year. ML, I know what you mean, I feel like I go backwards some days. But I try and remember all the valuable insight all of you have provided, and I somehow find a bit of comfort. STN you mentioned some things in a recent post about how a relationship with a married man is not balanced and unfair. This is so true. I saw an episode of Dr. Phil the other day about how men run for the hills when he senses that a woman wants commitment. I'm sure every circumstance has different variables but I remember how I would beat myself up for being too much this way or that or not being patient enough, blah, blah, blah. The reality is I didn't have a fighting chance because the relationship was not on fair ground. I thik that's what I so desperately wanted was a normal chance at a normal relationship. As the saying kind of goes, I was trying to put a square peg in a round hole. In the end I feel like this needy insecure person, but so much of this insecurity (not all of course) was a result of the the MM's shady, unstable package they would too often hand us, and we were supposed to just take it. I think my main source of pain similar to yours ML is the way he left me behind without a simple goodbye. He cut off all contact and has left me with no closure. Break ups are hard enough, but with no closure, you can't help but to feel worthless. I supppose in this situation I have to create my own closure. Like you mentioned STN, I probably have dodged a bullet. If he didn't have the decency to say goodbye, he obviously is a coward and keeping that sort of man goes against what I believe in. Nonetheless, I miss the hell out of him and still yearn to hear his voice. You ladies have helped me tremendously, and for that I am so thankful. Keep in touch and I'll check back soon:)

Jules

Living together is not an option. He loves his wife. I know it's hard to believe he does when he has cheated on her but he does. We have not had any contact for 2 months and he does not reply to my emails. He has made a decision and is sticking to it and there is nothing I can do to change this. I have to move on with my life. Who knows what the future holds....

I too need closure and although we both ended it via email, I deserve to at least have a "one on one" with him. BUT I know we will just be right back at it again if we see each other.

It hurts like hell but WE MUST move on and hope for a brighter future!!!

Hi Everyone,

I have a question to pose to you guys. I'm the one who's MM has been in Iraq as a government contractor for almost a year. With the new year, I've been trying to make a new start. Everyday is a battle, but I can't seem to stop obsessing over this possibility. Everyone I ask says that I did nothing wrong, but I still feel like I messed things up. Like I mentioned, our relationship has been a rollercoaster ride for about three years. The second month he was in Iraq, he said he wanted to marry me (granted he was drunk--but I took it to heart). A few weeks later his father who he had not seen in 30 years passed away in Lebanon. I felt soon after this, he began distancing himself. He says he's not a romantic and he only wants to call when he has something to say. He doesn't want to have the routine talks of "How was your day, how are you, etc." My reaction was if he was bored with me and he said absolutely not. I felt like something was wrong but I tried not to over-analyze. About a week after the death of his father, he calls and we have a great conversation. He says that he would help pay for some of my college classes which I thought was of course kind and a sign of his loyalty to me. Within practically the next breath, he says there was this lady in his department that was really annoying him with flirtacious behaviour. He said that guys in his office were asking if he had slept with her. By him telling me this, I felt very jealous and insecure but I decided to keep it inside and blow it off. Then he asks me that guys at the hotel that I manage surely hit on me all the time. Something inside of me snapped and I lied. I said that a guy did ask me out, but I also told him that I of course said no thank you. No guy asked me out, I just wanted to make him jealous I told the MM that noone compared to him and noone could tempt me. I wanted to express to him how special he was to me. Two days later my grandmother dies. I call him and he says he is there for me if I needed anything. When I returned from the funeral three days later, his phone was turned off and disconnected. All I could think was that he thought the wrong thing and sensed that I lyed to him or I truly did go on a date and he felt like he couldn't trust me. I have no clue what to think--that's what happens when you don't have closure.

I know this was long winded. I just so deperately need some opinions. So basically what I'm asking is do you think he ended our relationship because he felt I was seeing someone else? I know I may seem a bit neurotic--I'd just hate to think that I am to blame for this tragedy. My whole intention was to get his attention. I'm usually good about maturely communicating my feelings, I just had an insecure moment and went for the "make him jealous" mode which I'm wondering may have backfired. Making someone jealous is not my style.

Your input is greatly appreciated. I want to put this behind me. I suppose I'll never know why he abandoned me, but as much as the truth hurts, I need to know in some way if I did something wrong. I hope all of you ladies are hanging in there the best you can. You are in my prayers. Be back soon:)

Jules

Hey Guys,

I forgot to mention in my post that I know for a fact he is not dead. After I returned from the funeral and found out his phone was disconnected, I immediately thought he was hurt. I emailed him, and 5 days later he emails with a message about getting his phone upgraded and would call soon. About 5 more days, he calls with a new number. I expressed my worries about thinking something bad had happened to him. He said if he had died he would have heard about it on the news. I thought this was callous and then thought he was mad about that guy asking me out. Anyway, I expressed how I would love to see him when he took leave. He mentioned about going to New England or something. Then he said he had to go and would call again soon. From that point I have not heard from him. Everytime I tried to call he would turn off the phone. So like I mentioned, if you could give your opinion to my previous post. I just wanted all of you to know that he was indeed still alive.

Jules

By the sounds of things, you are single with no kids AND in college. What more can you possibly ask for??? You have no strings attached and the world is right infront of you. All you have to do is reach out and grab it!!!

I say your MM is NOT interested (I know this hurts) by the way he's ignoring you. Time to move on and find someone who is!!! I know it's easier said than done as I am having a hard time moving on BUT you have to do this in order to be happy again.

I don't think you should have to make anyone jealous in order to get their attention. You deserve someone who will love you for who you are!

I'm assuming you are fairly young (being in college) and life is too short to waste wishing, wanting and worrying about ANYONE!!! I am 40 with 3 kids and have spent my entire life wishing for things I didn't have INSTEAD OF ENJOYING WHAT I DID. I can't take any of it back but I can make the rest of my life better and plan on doing so. I miss my MM terribly and would love to look into his beautiful eyes again but right now that's not an option as he is married and wants to be.

Get out there and meet new people. Make friends and keep busy. Don't look for love, it will find YOU!!!

ML,

Your ex loves his wife the way one loves a pet that is always waiting at home for the master to return! You were possibly a distraction, something new to make his marriage warm again and to make his wife make all those efforts for your ex as she must have done some time in the past. People who love people don't cheat. Your ex had his fill of an affair and is conveniently back with his wife- whom he never left. He clearly didn't care for you as he has never bothered to check on you. How easy it was for your ex to shut you out. Keeping in touch means 'responsibility' towards you. And that is not convenient.

Pl stop finding excuses for your ex.

Jules,

You were possibly a pleasant interlude from the ravages of war. Is your ex boyfriend moslem?

You did/ said nothing wrong.

Men are creatures who committ if they want to.

They run away if that is what they want to do.

He is possibly insecure 'coz you are young.

Its a good thing he is out of your life as he clearly did not want to give anything to the relationship.

Have no fear, you will meet someone nice and willing to invest in the relationship, who will be with you through the good and the bad times. Someone physically present, someone you can trust and count on. Someone who will not damage/ hurt you. Someone who will not make promises he has no intention of keeping. Someone who will cherish you.

You will find love.

Thanks for your reponse. Actually, I'm 38 with one child. But do you think by me telling him that lie about a guy asking me out was reason enough to break up with me? I don't know what his reasons are, but this was basically the last thing that was said before he broke off all contact. I've never lyed to him before. I was innocently trying to make him jealous. Like I mentioned, I was basically reacting to his comment about a girl he said that was flirting with him. I just wandered if he assumed deep down that I went out with this fictious guy that I had made up. Please help with opinions. I need them:(

Jules

Thank you for your response. Actually I'm 38 with one child. Do you think by me telling that lie was the reason he ended it with me. We've been together for 3 years and I've always been honest with him. I only said a guy asked me out because I reacted to his comments about a lady flirting with him. Do you think deep down he thought I was seeing someone? Your opinions are greatly appreciated:)

Jules

Thanks for your response. Actually, I'm 38 with 1 child. Do you think though that he ended it with me because I lyed about that guy asking me out. I was merely reacting to the comments he made about a lady in the office flirting with him and collegues asking if he had slept with her. Do you think he felt deep down that I went out on a date with someone? Thanks for any opinions:)

Jules

No, I honestly think he wanted out way before that. Does it really matter? He's gone and there is nothing you can do about it! I know this is HARSH but it is reality. I too have to deal with this reality but still have hope that he will come back into my life. SAD!!! Regardless, you are single and there is nothing stopping you from meeting someone who will make you feel loved and respected as you should be!!!

There is nothing I can say to make the hurt go away but one day you will be happy again! Hopefully we both will!

Jules it's clear that this has really messed you up.
You are doing what I do - asking questions that don't really need to be answered (as it won't make a change in the situation).
You are analyzing the situation to death (another BAD thing I do) and nothing is going to make the outcome different.
You can do or say all the "what if's" you like but it would have happend sooner or later.

Look at it this way, you have wasted 3 years (GOOD YEARS) of your life. Don't waste anymore waiting around. Move on and have fun. I KNOW it's so hard to do but what choice do WE really have?

ML

Jules,

My thinking is that your ex did have that 'sleep over' with the lady 'friend'. It was his convulated way of telling you that he has been unfaithful in a relationship where he was being unfaithful to his wife. Circutous. He cut off not 'coz of something that you said, he cut off possibly 'coz he found another love interest 'outside of marriage', possibly one that did not involve travelling half the world to meet. Lady is possibly in Iraq, that is. And he was not man enough to look you in the eye and tell you that. Its more convenient to just shut you out. Not very nice to just leave you wondering- but then this world is not a pizza made to order. You play with the cards dealt to you.

Don't blame yourself.

OOOps...sorry for three repeat responses. I thought my computer was not submitting.

Jules

Hi Jules,

How are you doing these days? Just for comparison, I can tell you my MM used to constantly threaten to leave me if he found me talking with another man. The thing is, my MM knew he had no real claim to me or my loyalty, since he never made a real commitment to and investment in me. This was his way of holding some power, by making sure I was completly addicted to him and then, by making me afraid of losing him. I can see this was a little different than your situation, but the idea there is similar. I mean, in the *real* world, you *should* have been talking to any man and every man you felt like, because in the *real* world, your MM didn't have any rights to ask you not to. But inside the sick relationships we've been in with these guys, normal expectations and 'rights' get completely warped, and are always best suited to the needs of these using, manipulative men. Let yourself off the hook for the right reasons, your MM had no right to your loyalty, no matter what...and if you talked to another man innocently, well, your MM would have been waaaaay out of line to get upset about it, no matter what was going on between the two of you. You're the one who should be upset, not him.

These guys often fit the same emotional profile, it seems to me. They want and expect a hell of a lot more from life (and women) than they actually deserve. And they find women like us who are somehow vulnerable enough to fall for their double-standards, and live in fear of losing them and all the misery they bring, just so that they (we) can hold out hope (endlessly, painfully) for something more, something that's never coming in most of our cases. It's f-d up. They feed on our needs and fears and devotion, but they only feed their own selfishness. And the fact that they can take us or leave us, knowing that they've never fully committed because they've always got another woman waiting for them somewhere, shows what incredible cowards they are in the end. Let's find some real men and spend all of this energy caring about them, or, even better, spend it on caring about ourselves until we feel things are right in our worlds again?

Love, STN

Hi Ladies,
I know I've been writing here trying to give you all hope about things on the other side of an affair with a MM. And I've been 100% honest with you and meant every word I've said sincerely. But today, I had a strange thing happen. I accidentaly opened my old diary, the one I kept in my computer while I was seeing my MM. And the first entry I saw was dated to October 2006. That's about 3 months before we had to separate. We both knew the separation was coming. And for once, my MM had his guard down. Usually he spends most of his time trying to act like the 'big man', whose feelings can't get hurt. But that evening, no one was interfering with our time together (for a change) and no one outside the relationship was causing tension (which he used to invite, as an escape route for him having to face the situation), and we were both being grown-ups about how things really were (which was the change from the usual dreaming we used to do).
In my diary, I wrote about how we were sitting outside in a garden, about twilight time. There were hardly any leaves left on the trees and we sat across from each other in two chairs, our foreheads touching. And we sat and talked like that for a little while and he asked me why he loved me so much, and I said I didn't know. And he asked me why I loved him so much, and I said I didn't know. And then he shook me by my shoulders and said he was sorry, sorry for everything. And I said I was sorry too. And in those moments we laughed and cried a little, and knew on some level that even though we were near the end of things between us, it was enough that we loved each other like we did.
I had forgotten all about that day. And now I feel horrible, because I miss him. And I hate what happened, and how it happened, and how it sucked as much as it did.
xoxo, stn

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so much for all of your reponses to my recent post. STN, you have really shed some light on things I have totally been in the dark about. I'm feeling better now. The pain still lingers, but I see now what a spell I have been under. He has pulled these "ignoring me" stunts on several occasions. This time I suppose it's for good I suppose because he may feel threatened by another man. I don't even get the benefit of the doubt. He could assume the worst which is I betrayed him and dated a guy behind his back or assume that a guy just simply asked me out and that is it. I guess I'm guilty until proven innocent. I've never given him any reason to assume that I was cheating on him. There are so many times my gut has told me that he was lying or deceiving me but I blew it off because I believed in him and held onto the fact that if I can't prove it, I should let it be. Like you said, he was only manipulating me and punishing me in a passive aggressive way if I rocked the boat at all. There was no positive reinforcement for healthy communication. Communication is not what they want. They simply want us to patiently wait for them while they have their fun and conquer the world. My whole school of thought is even if he thought I had secretly dated someone, he could have at least talked to me about it. His actions definitely prove he is a coward. If only there was a pill that could erase part of our memory.

I know I will have bad days, but little by little, I will muster the strength to find a man who is worthy of me. Thank you all for giving me strength toward this needed journey of reinventing myself. As always, you are in my prayers and I will check back soon:)

Jules

STN

Something that deep deserves to be explored intensely. Why did you both run away from something that strong? Why should true emotions scare you? You two did not even try and see that there could be a life together. May 'coz your boy friend was alway MM first and a boy friend/ partner later. You two did not believe that you could have a life together.

Endings are happy if that is what you have in mind.

You always feared it will not work out, and in the end it did not. It was always guilt that lurked in the shadows. Not the courage to admit, 'I have found love, and would like to keep it'. At least for your boy friend that did not seem to be an option.

But then it takes two to Tango.

But, none of this is helpful now.

Any purpose in revisiting the person? He did exhibit certain callous traits where you are concerned. Was it worth it?

Two faces of the coin.

Well said Jules, communication is not what these men want. I spent about a year and half of my life banging my head against a wall thinking that I might actually find a way to real communication with my MM, which would have helped a lot. If only I had seen sooner that he was doing everything he could to prevent real communication. Thanks for reminding me why I had to leave him. It's great to see you showing your strength, I'm sure the desire to reinvent yourself is the gift you get from suffering through all of this, it's the gift you get for finding the courage to move on in the middle of all the pain.
xoxo, STN

I agree, "Something that deep deserves to be explored intensely" HOWEVER he is married and think that needs to be over before they can explore any relationship that will work.

It's so hard to let go when the love is so intense (I had to and it kills me EVERYDAY) but I know that what we were doing was wrong and there are other people involved. He needs to deal with his feelings for his wife first!

We are always talking about our feelings but our MM have feelings too. In my case, I came on to him and he was honest from the beginning about his love for his wife BUT shit happens and we fell in love. IT IS possible to love two people at the same time and it's very hard to live a double life. The guilt eats away at you.

I would love to see him again but he has a family who he loves and needs to be there for. We can't change or take back what we have done but we have to move on. Who knows what the future holds...

Hi ?,

I'm not sure who wrote the message to me, but thanks for your interest in my situation.

Truth is, my situation is an old one, with a long history, 10 years ago it started as 'friends'. There's a lot that you wouldn't know about it (the ups and downs of how we tried, how we failed, what we believed, when the fear set in, when i realized it was true love and wanted more than anything to keep it, what wanting/needing what wasn't mine cost me, when it was pure bliss, when and how it turned to hell, how much i loved being in love, how i ended up an emotional trainwreck both publically and privately, how my pure, hopeful heart has turned into something I don't recognize anymore, all the mistakes I have to keep forgiving myself for, etc.), there's no way I can explain all of that to you. The girls who've been around the site for a while know more about this than they probably want to, but the main thing is that I don't know if it was worth it. It's a question I've been asking myself a lot lately.

The costs have been so unexpectedly high. I never dreamed that I would lose all that I lost because of the path I went down with him. I didn't realize what I was risking, I didn't realize how I was betraying myself, my MM, and any chance at happiness that we had by letting the affair continue. At the same time, I feel like I learned very important things about myself, I learned things about life that I really needed to learn, things that can help me now. I can't say that it was worth it, because my heart is still broken over the losses and regrets that go way beyond the relationship I lost with my MM, but I can say that I have taken something valuable away from the situation for myself, something I really needed to find. Sometimes I look at the wreckage of my life that's all around me and wonder how I ever let it get this bad. Other times I see the same wreckage and find hope in it, hope that I'm going to rebuild things in a way that works for me this time.

right,I forgot to mention a few things that were wrong with your impression of how things were with me and my MM.

believe me, i didn't have an ending in mind when things got started between us. i never imagined how much i'd fall for him, and once i fell, i couldn't get up. i never had that happen before, and was totally unprepared.

then, after that, all i wanted was the happy ending, and i wouldn't let go of my hope for it, no matter how bad things got. but my f-d up MM was like a yo yo. he didn't know if he was coming or going, he just wanted to be with me, but you know, he had an entire life with family, too many kids, extended family (he's married to his cousin! -it's a Muslim thing), etc. expecting him to stay right where he's at. that's how it was. and then he learned he could have my devotion without really investing in me - this is what I taught him, by giving him my heart before he gave me a real place in his life. so he just kept taking without giving. and i kept hoping for more.

this is just a little bit about why i agree with the person who wrote that the MM has to deal with his home-life, wife and family BEFORE the 'exploration' with the OW begins. I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're on the edge of an affair, and haven't yet seen the ugly side of these situations?
If so, please be careful. Still, if someone had told me to be careful in the beginning, I wouldn't have known what to be careful of anyway. So let me just wish you the best of luck, I hope your situation ends up better than most.

Hi Ladies,

I wanted to drop a note and say this: if you ever get to the point where you're really ANGRY about how your MM has treated you (once you get past the loss, anger can really set it), don't worry about it. Let it go. Your MM will self-destruct. All of his warped, self-serving thinking will fall back onto him as long as you just stay out of the way. Get yourself up onto higher ground, keep your nose clean, invest in what makes you happy in a healthy way, and you will see them destroy themselves with their own selfishness and inability to be emotionally responsible for anything.

My MM is making a complete ass of himself right now, desperately trying to hide from the realities he's created and desperately trying to find a way to feel like a BIG man when he knows he's been the smallest, most cowardly sort of man there is. So he's bascially treating everyone badly, being in a bad mood all the time, trying to get people to feel sorry for him, always expecting from people what he doesn't deserve, chasing after fool's gold in the sense that he's going after attention from any woman who will give it to him. Now all the women are running away from him, becuase it's just such a desperate scene that he's making. It's actually a really sad thing for me to watch, because part of me really does care about him and love him, and he just looks sad and pathetic. I'm embarassed for him. But I'm writing this to let you know that they do eventually pay for who they have been, and how they have treated you. You don't have to do anything to make this happen - they do it to themselves. It all catches up with them, as long as you step aside and let it happen. By staying with these MM, we gave them all a place to hide from themselves and the changes they need to make in themselves. Get out of the way and they will destroy themselves, eventually.

xoxo, STN

xoxo, STN

STN,

Well said! I take comfort in what you wrote. I believe you are right--they eventually will self destruct. I miss my MM terribly at times and then I have to remind myself of all the selfish, insensitive things he did to me. Like you mentioned, now that the loss has somewhat been accepted--I'm so angry!! I know with every experience is a lesson and I definitely learned--one for the books!! I just hope I can trust again and erase the image of his face from my memory. I don't wish ill-will on my MM. I just hope he can see the light for once and not hurt anyone else in this way. As always--all of you are in my prayers. I'll continue to check in. Your words help to bring peace from within. God knows I need it. You ladies are the best:)

Jules

Hey Jules,
Thanks. Sometimes I forget what I've figured out and end up in a weak moment. That's what lead me to do more reading about his sort of behavior on the internet and I ended up figuring out he's got a textbook case of narcissism. And so I ended up figuring out after that that this awful woman who keeps coming between us every time we (or at least I) want to make peace with my MM is actually a total sociopath, also textbook case. So then I ended up on another website for people getting over sociopathic destruction, and I think I saw you there too. Is that you?? Otherwise there's some other woman named Jules who's also been through a hell similar to yours.
Hope you're doing okay!!!
xoxo, STN

Please can someone help me with some advice before i have a breakdown. I dont know what to do. I have been married for 18 years now and i must say that for the most part it hasnt been an ideal one. We have two ids who are adults now, but i have mostly stuck through the marriage for their sakes. My husband has not ever been an affectionate man and 8 years ago developed an addiction to the internet. That addiction has wasted not only his, but also my life away. I have not had a partner to go out with for 8 years. I have been a prisoner in my own home not being able to go anywhere without him sulking and making me feel guilty, but at the same time having to put up with him sitting at home 24/7 and doing nothing but chatting on the computer to other people. 8 months ago i met a younger man at a company that i rep for. It was an instant attraction, we both new it and i left that day with his business card and instructions to ring him if i needed help with the product. I didnt think much of it at the time because i knew that he had to be at least 10 years younger than me, but i began to realise that he would ring me for little things. After not hearing from me for a couple of weeks he rang me and asked if i still was repping because he hadnt heard from me in a while. At christmas he sent me a text wishing me a happy xmas. His messages after a few months started to get a little flirtier, and so did mine. Everything we wrote seemed to have a doulbe meaning, it was quite fun. then one day i found out that he was married. When i asked him he said "yep dit you know? your married too arent ya? well then you havent got a ball and chain around your leg have ya? We laughed and he went on to talk about how he never gets into trouble and that i should try partying without my husband sometime. After that i got the impression that he was a bit of a player but was really attracted to him and the attention still. A week after i messaged him to say that i hadnt heard from him in a while, he asked me if i missed him and i said that i had. i told him that i was going away soon with my husband and he asked if he could come with me. we had several conversations in the lead up to my holiday about how i could sneak him in my suitcase. I made several remarks suggesting that i would rather be going with him and he did the same. The text messages were getting more and more suggestive. When i went away for two weeks i missed him terribly and managed to call him and tell him that i was thinking of him. He asked me if i had been nude sunbathing. he sent me a text once that made me think that he was jealous. i wrote him that he was being mean. and when i came back it took him a couple of days to answer my messages. he seed a little distant with me, i had missed him so much. I finally took the opportunity to ask him if he felt the same as i did or whether i had my wires crossed. He stuttered at first and then replied that he was interested in me and asked me if i was also interested in him. I told him i was and then he said that there was a little problem....both of us were married.i told him about the problems in my marriage and asked him if he had problems in his. He said that he didnt have problems in his marriage and that he had only been married for one year, but also said that he also wanted to get together with me, but he didnt know if he could live with the guilt or be responsible for breaking up a marriage. I told him that i understood and that we would keep it as friends and that i respect him. He said that he still wants us to send text messages (even flirty ones) to each other. every time he has called me since the conversation always leads to sex with him. He makes me feel that he is waiting for me to ask him to. I dont know what to do or think. Surely there must be some problem with his marriage if after a year he is flirting with me, i cant understand how he can say there is not. He sounds different from the cocky man i spoke to a month agowho told me i should try partying without my hubby and that he never gets in trouble. A change of heart do you think? or just scared. I know that him and his wife have gone away for the week and i am sitting here waiting for the time to go by so that i can speak to him again. I dont know where i stand, but i am heartbroken and do not have a sole to speak to about it. My family dont know whats wrong with me, i cant tell anyone. PLease can someone give me some advice about this guy. I asked him if his attraction is purely physical, but as he said, we have only met in person once 8 months ago, the rest has been talking on the phone and text. He said that apart from the initial attraction, he just got to know me by phone and really liked me and felt like he had known me for ages and felt a strong connection. Please help me, all i want to do is cry all the time.

Leslie,

I feel your pain. My situation started out similar. I met a man three years ago at the hotel I work at. We had a few brief conversations and a date lined up. He then had to go overseas for several months. All we had was the internet and phone conversations. In a nutshell, this man broke my heart in the worst way. During our three year relationship, I was divorced and he was separated but he would go home every weekend to be with his family. One day he just vanished from my life without a goodbye or anything--at one point he had actually asked me to marry him. I know whatit's like to be married to a man who shows you no affection. I was miserably married for five years. I have a ten year old son now. My advice to you is to seek happiness for yourself. I know I can sleep at night because I tried everything I could to make the marriage work. Sometimes I believe some things are just not repairable if both parties aren't willing to work on it. I know it's tempting to seek affection from the married guy, but I would advise against it. I strongly believe that for a relationship to have a fighting chance, two people have to be healed and ready. Not to say there aren't exceptions to the rule, just not likely. I can't begin to tell you the pain I endured with my married man--I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I wasted three precious years of my life on someone who was probably just stringing me along because he was a coward.

Leslie,

I will keep you in my prayers. I'll be checking back to make sure you are okay. Please ask for as much advice as you need. Don't forget to keep yourself healthy and positive and the rest will fall into place.

Jules

Thank you both so much for your support. You dont know what that means to me to see that at least there is someone out there who is listening. I know what you are saying about the married man situation. I just feel that this guy and me are soul mates, we are so much alike and think so much alike. I cant help thinking that we were originally meant to be and if i dont follow this path then it will never be. He is due back from his holiday today, probably be Monday before i hear from him. I have made up my mind that i will not contact him first and see if he does contact me again. I cant help feeling sad waiting to hear from him. I have never felt so obsessed about a person before. As to my present husband. He treats me like im an object or posession.Sex isnt loving, more dirty or lustful, he treats sex like a reward, like i should be honoured to have sex with him (even though he is really nothing special at all). There is never any hand holding or kissing, cant remember when we last kissed passionately. The thing is that although he pays me no real attention except in a sexual way, i know that if i made the move to break the relationship he would be angry and bitter and resentful. He would drag the kids into it and probably my parents. I almost feel scared to make the move and i think that this is the only thing stopping me.

Hi to the last lady who wrote on the site. It sounds like your going through a real transition in your life. Please be careful. I went through something similar. You need to do everything you can to get strong, get your energy strong and powerful, and erect protections around all of your vulnerabilities right now. I think you're about to enter a period of real difficulty, and gathering your energies and getting all your weak spots out of harms way will allow you to move forward in a much better way than if you didn't take care of those things. Meanwhile, with your husband, don't let him know how you feel, you've got to play along so that he doesn't start causing trouble and targeting you (it sounds like he's a natural at this sort of thing, and he'd wipe you out before you even got one foot out the door). Get strong and get out safely.
I don't mean I think your husband will be physically abusive, I have no idea what he's capable of, I only know that you're likely married to a narcissist, and they can be shockingly mean and vindictive when they stop getting their way. And they're such great liars and manipulators that they can make you out to be the bad guy when you're the one being victimized. This can rip your life apart on so many levels, in so many dimesions that you may have never dreamed were possible. Read up on narcissitic personality disorder to prepare yourself, and check if this is what your husban actually is (the key word is somatic narcissist).
Try to concentrate on deliberately losing the bad things in your life, and building and focusing only on what you know for sure is good, and find a place that's going to provide shelter from the storm that's coming your way - it looks to me like it's going to be a big one. I could be completely wrong, sorry if I am, it's just that your situation sounds so similar to the one I went through, and I hate the thought of another woman going through it.
All good wishes.

I am i n love with a married man